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Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

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KN4 kid Naruto blitzed and oneshoted Base Jiraiya. Do you think that Base Hebi Sasuke can do the same?
I'm not sure how that counters any of what I said.
But ultimately, we have no clue how Jiraiya's encounter with KN4 went, but we know he couldn't have been going for the kill, so maybe that's why he was hurt that badly.
In any case, saying "do you really think he can do the same?" Isn't a great counter imo.
 
If you don't want to use the anime thats fine, but the anime actually shows us how the fight went down. The manga just shows a panel of Jiraiya allready being defeated. So anime can be the evidence here since it doesn't contradict anything in the manga. Also I don't think that Sasuke breaking Yamatos mokuton makes him comparable to KN4 Naruto since the entire plot point of Yamato going on the mission was that he is the only one who can suppress the Nine Tails with his mokuton. He counters the KN4 Naruto basically. That doesn't mean that Base Sasukes AP is stronger than KN4 Narutos. Hell, KN4 couldn't even get pierced by a Kusanagi sword.
 
Okay, so I've been sifting through some early Shippuden stuff that I want to run by you guys. It's regarding Hebi Sasuke. It won't change his tier too much, but if it's accepted it might result in a slight upgrade for him.

So, Yamato's Mokuton was able to restrain KN4 Naruto. Now, yes I know that Naruto was breaking through it in that last scan; however, that doesn't change the fact that it restrained him for a little bit and that breaking it was clearly strenuous for him. To me this at least shows that Yamato's Mokuton, while weaker than, is still in a similar ballpark to Naruto.
I also know that Mokuton is supposed to suppress Bijuu chakra, but it clearly didn't really do that great a job considering he was going to break through it eventually. Also his regular Mokuton is clearly not as effective as his Sealing Jutsu, when it comes to suppressing Kyuubi chakra that is.

So with all of that in mind, let's look at Sasuke. He managed to casually pulverize Yamato's Mokuton two times. This was with much greater ease than Naruto's attempt to break through it. So if this makes sense to all of you, then base Sasuke should scale above KN4 Naruto instead of Base Naruto.

This is actually kinda consistent within the lore too, since Orochimaru flat out said Sasuke was much stronger than KN3 Naruto, so him being comparable to KN4 wouldn't really be contradictory at all.

So what do you guys think?
can we really take his word seriously?" Sasuke was much stronger than KN3 Naruto,"
since kn3 can hurt oro who was much stronger then a dying oro

i am against base sasuke scaling to kn4 since
base sasuke cant even finished of a dying oro who couldn't even move
he needed cm2 to kill/cut oro down
and oro even use his strongest defence technice Triple Rashōmon against kn4 but kn4 1 shot it
+oro Kusanagi couldn't even scratch kn4
so i doubt we can use this statement
 
The most logical conclusion is that CSM 2 (Or 1 if you mini wank) Sasuke is stronger than V1 Three tailed Naruto
 
Then don’t use the term collaborate smh, cause Kurama never even did that with Kushina even though he totally should have.
We later see during the War Arc that Kurama has way more than 96x Kakashi’s chakra though, so...
Kurama has more chakra and stronger chakra, so even if it's 96x Kakashi's chakra, it's stronger too, so less chakra could have a stronger effect. I still stand on it though.
Goddamnit why’d you have to mention Kushina, now I’m mad that she didn’t come back as an Edo again
She would've chained the Juubi
Then why didn’t you, I dunno, say to wait before discussing how it changes the scaling? Not that it matters because even without this KCM2 still lands at 6-C
Idk man
There you go.
Thanks for correcting me b4 someone else did
Iirc, I didn’t say anything against Naruto suppressing it himself so...
True. Anyways, we got confirmation and understanding of Yamato suppressing Naruto's chakra, so yall can take it how you will
 
Wether you agree they were 30% or not, I think we can both agree that they were significantly weaker, yea?
Alright.
KCM2 Kushina, that’s all I’m saying. Anyways, disregarding the 25x. We, at the least, have an over 10x multiplier for KN1 since it brought KN0 Naruto from beneath base Sasuke to on par with CS2, which is already over 10x base.
KCM2 Kushina is a full Uzumaki with a full Nine Tails she has the most chakra in the entire verse.
10x+ for KN1 makes perfect sense.
Couple hundred? Hahahaha let me debunk you on that. There was 80000 shinobi at the start of the war divided into 5 divisions of 16000 shinobi. After the first day of battle they lost half of their men so thats 40000 left. After the first day the reanimation jutsu gets dispelled and Gaaras divison loses its entire division to Madara. So 40000-16000 = 24000. And lets say other divisions lost a few thousand on the second day, thats beetween 10000 and 20000 left who went on to help against the Ten Tails.
Whole time I said 2k at most, but alright.
Then the ten tails' wood knocked a shit ton of them out while they were all together to the point that Naruto was about to commit suicide, mind you, Naruto was there when the fourth division was wiped out and he was fine then, so subtract another 10-16k from that for me please..
1. The Bijuu are being split into two Keys, Pre-War Arc and War Arc. Pre-War Arc Bijuu are scaling to 7-A or whatever or whoever they scale to while War Arc are 6-C and whatever or whoever their physicals scale to. The reasoning being that Obito, during the War Arc, is controlling/amping them, same for the Jinchuriki.
I mean, feats prove it so it's alright. I would've just argued that their original was stronger, and they only did what they did cause of coordination, but it really doesn't change much.
2. How sure are you that Alive EMS Madara is stronger than Edo Rinnegan Madara though? Edo Madara was able to fight against Edo SM Hashirama to a stalemate. Unless you also think that Alive Hashirama is stronger than Edo SM Hashirama?
I mean, Hashirama flat out said "he's regaining his past strength" after he was revived then given an arm full of Hashirama cells and a rinnegan, and he had his rinnegan abilities w/out the eyes so that's that.
 
Some of yall might hate the fandom after this, but here's what I found there that I wanted to talk about.

"Unlike how the number of tails in Version 1 can measure the jinchūriki's strength, there is no observable correlation between the number of Naruto's Version 2 tails and his destructive capabilities. Likewise, although all jinchūriki gain unique, heightened abilities that bring them even closer to their corresponding beast."

I mean it kinda makes sense.

4 tails Naruto could fight Orochimaru where Orochimaru said his bijuudama would kill him. Orochimaru could match Jiraiya who the Pains said would've won if he knew their secret, the same Pain who Matched/FoughtWith/GotShatOnBy/EntanglementWith (however you see how that fight went down) 6 tails Naruto.

Plus, Naruto is the only Jinchuriki who has multiple different tailed versions of his Version Forms, so idk how yall would take that.
 
Alright, with the new ‘over 10x’ KN1 multiplier:

Base = 7-A (100 megatons, although unquantifiably higher)
KN1 = High 7-A (unquantifiably higher than 1 gigaton)
KN4 = High 7-A / High 7-A+ (significantly further above 1 gigaton, arguably enough to already upscale to a + since High 7-A+ = 2.65 gigatons and KN4 > KN3 > KN2 > KN1 > 1 gigaton)
Sage Mode = High 7-A+ (Definitely capable of upscaling to a + at this point, 2.65 gigatons or unquantifiably higher than that)
KCM = At least High 7-A+ (Stronger than Sage Mode, unquantifiably higher than 2.65 gigatons)
KCM2 = 6-C (Significantly stronger than KCM, baseline/4.3 gigatons)
Kurama Avatar = High 6-C (Matched five combined Bijuudama with one of his own, 130.55 gigatons)
BSM = Low 6-B (Over ten times stronger than before, over 1.31 teratons)
 
Are we allowed to do this
Yes. If there’s a difference of 1.5x, you can upscale to a + rating, or to the next tier if you’re going up from a +.

Since KN1 is already quite a bit higher than 1 gigaton, KN2 is stronger than that, KN3 is even stronger, and then KN4 is stronger than that, that should be enough to reach 2.65 gigatons. But in case it’s not, that’s why I put it at High 7-A / High 7-A+. Either way, since Sage Mode is superior to KN4, it would definitely be High 7-A+ at that point.
 
What puts base Naruto at mountain?
We went over this at the beginning of the thread. BoS Naruto scales to BoS Sakura, who scales to Sasori, who scales above Deidara, who scales above Gaara, who is baseline mountain due to his offense/defense sand being stronger than the ordinary desert sand that he performed a 99 megaton feat with.
 
We went over this at the beginning of the thread. BoS Naruto scales to BoS Sakura, who scales to Sasori, who scales above Deidara, who scales above Gaara, who is baseline mountain due to his offense/defense sand being stronger than the ordinary desert sand that he performed a 99 megaton feat with.

I still don't agree with this scaling chain. I think it needs to be looked at more carefully.

Major issues being:

1) Nothing solid making BoS Naruto = BoS Sakura.

2) Sakura never actually harmed Sasori himself, she caused him to fall to pieces because of the nature of his puppet body, but Sasori himself was fundamentally unhurt and pulled himself back together.

3) Sasori's durability coming from Deidara's rating, still very questionable to me. Since their fighting styles are so different, Deidara's statement for a solid Sasori's striking strength > Deidara's explosion doesn't make sense. Might as well scale Sasori to Deidara's C0 while you're at it.

4) Deidara's statement on Gaara's sand vs. the sand in the desert needs looking at again IMO. I'm pretty sure he doesn't imply that Gaara has more AP when he uses a tiny amount of his personal sand instead of all the sand available to him in the desert.

Also, Gaara with the desert in the sand available was able to block Deidara's C3 chakra explosion. Whereas Gaara himself was knocked out by tiny chakra explosion insects, a much smaller scale attack. I don't think we can scale Gaara's durability to his feat of lifting up the desert.
 
We went over this at the beginning of the thread. BoS Naruto scales to BoS Sakura, who scales to Sasori, who scales above Deidara, who scales above Gaara, who is baseline mountain due to his offense/defense sand being stronger than the ordinary desert sand that he performed a 99 megaton feat with.
Sorry i came mad late, thanks for informing me the scaling
 
1) Nothing solid making BoS Naruto = BoS Sakura.
Kakashi is confident in holding off Naruto and Sakura until sunrise, a poisoned Naruto at the Five Kage Summit was shown to be capable of restraining Kakashi with a clone.
Sakura never actually harmed Sasori himself, she caused him to fall to pieces because of the nature of his puppet body, but Sasori himself was fundamentally unhurt and pulled himself back together.
She damaged Sasori on more than one occassion. She broke him to pieces and completely shattered the Third Kazekage puppet.
Sasori's durability coming from Deidara's rating, still very questionable to me. Since their fighting styles are so different, Deidara's statement for a solid Sasori's striking strength > Deidara's explosion doesn't make sense. Might as well scale Sasori to Deidara's C0 while you're at it.
Literally no reason for Deidara to mean anything other than his explosives when the statement is so clear cut and blatant, we had this discussion already.
Deidara's statement on Gaara's sand vs. the sand in the desert needs looking at again IMO. I'm pretty sure he doesn't imply that Gaara has more AP when he uses a tiny amount of his personal sand instead of all the sand available to him in the desert.
First of all, Gaara didn’t use all the sand in the desert. I don’t know where that’s coming from, especially when we can still see sand that Gaara isn’t using. Second of all, Deidara says that Gaara pours “an enourmous amount of chakra” into the sand in his gourd, making it “special” in comparison to the ordinary desert sand. Deidara also says that this is the sand Gaara uses for his attacks and absolute defense. Deidara then proceeded to one-shot Gaara at the end of the fight, while implying that he was holding back to not kill him.
 
> Kakashi is confident in holding off Naruto and Sakura until sunrise, a poisoned Naruto at the Five Kage Summit was shown to be capable of restraining Kakashi with a clone

The naruto at the five Kage summit arc is not comparable to BOS Naruto.
 
> Kakashi is confident in holding off Naruto and Sakura until sunrise, a poisoned Naruto at the Five Kage Summit was shown to be capable of restraining Kakashi with a clone

The naruto at the five Kage summit arc is not comparable to BOS Naruto.
I’m aware of that, however, Naruto was poisoned and weakened at the time, and we decided in the last thread to give Naruto one key for his base form.

Also (this isn’t base Naruto, but) KN0 Naruto’s Rasengan killed the 30% Itachi that was fighting on par with Kakashi.
 
> Literally no reason for Deidara to mean anything other than his explosives when the statement is so clear cut and blatant, we had this discussion already.

I initially conceded this point because Shadowbokunohero disagreed, but I want more staff input. The statement is not clear-cut in my opinion. It requires assumptions to be made. And there isn't enough supporting evidence of Sasori's rating being that high.

> Second of all, Deidara says that Gaara pours “an enourmous amount of chakra” into the sand in his gourd, making it “special” in comparison to the ordinary desert sand. Deidara also says that this is the sand Gaara uses for his attacks and absolute defense. Deidara then proceeded to one-shot Gaara at the end of the fight, while implying that he was holding back to not kill him.

What does that have to do with it's durability being equal to the 7-B+ calc for him moving the sand in the desert?

Two equal quantities of desert sand and "special sand" might make the special sand being more durable in comparison, but the quantity difference is very high between the sand Gaara raised up from the desert and the sand he keeps in his gourd.
 
I’m aware of that, however, Naruto was poisoned and weakened at the time, and we decided in the last thread to give Naruto one key for his base form.

Also (this isn’t base Naruto, but) KN0 Naruto’s Rasengan killed the 30% Itachi that was fighting on par with Kakashi.

I think we should just refer to him as base instead of BOS naruto IMO.

as I feel naruto only started approaching that power in base once we got to the Kakazu and Hidan arc. but because there's only one key I understand that just putting everything under the same umbrella.
 
I initially conceded this point because Shadowbokunohero disagreed, but I want more staff input. The statement is not clear-cut in my opinion. It requires assumptions to be made. And there isn't enough supporting evidence of Sasori's rating being that high.
It does not require assumptions. The way you wanted to take it requires assumptions. And yes, there is. He killed the Third Kazekage, he uses the body of said Kage as a puppet and implied that his own puppet body is stronger. There’s more than enough evidence for Sasori being 7-A.
What does that have to do with it's durability being equal to the 7-B+ calc for him moving the sand in the desert?
Gaara’s sand that he uses for defense (including the sand armor that Deidara’s bombs busted through) > the sand he used in the 7-B+.
 
I think we should just refer to him as base instead of BOS naruto IMO.

as I feel naruto only started approaching that power in base once we got to the Kakazu and Hidan arc. but because there's only one key I understand that just putting everything under the same umbrella.
I mean, the key is called ‘Base,’ not BoS. I just tend to personally call it BoS.
 
Guess my comment got lost but seriously what’s up with downgrading BM? he is fine at High 6C of Gyuki can rank his own TBB then someone like BM can do the same. Also again just because they found a weakness for SM, that doesn’t mean that they can instantly one shot someone with that weakness cause again it still took BM + SM with a bunch of teamwork to take Juubito down
 
> He killed the Third Kazekage

Without context, this is not an AP feat.

> he uses the body of said Kage as a puppet and implied that his own puppet body is stronger.

The 3rd Kazekage's puppet body has no durability feat IIRC.

> Gaara’s sand that he uses for defense (including the sand armor that Deidara’s bombs busted through) > the sand he used in the 7-B+.

Where's the proof of that?
 
Base Naruto is 7-A because he is somewhat relative to Kakashi who can fight the Akatsuki members who are all 7-A, except for the strongest ones who are High 7-A.
 
Guess my comment got lost but seriously what’s up with downgrading BM? he is fine at High 6C of Gyuki can rank his own TBB then someone like BM can do the same. Also again just because they found a weakness for SM, that doesn’t mean that they can instantly one shot someone with that weakness cause again it still took BM + SM with a bunch of teamwork to take Juubito down
 
Guess my comment got lost but seriously what’s up with downgrading BM? he is fine at High 6C of Gyuki can rank his own TBB then someone like BM can do the same. Also again just because they found a weakness for SM, that doesn’t mean that they can instantly one shot someone with that weakness cause again it still took BM + SM with a bunch of teamwork to take Juubito down
Who said anything about downgrading BM? What are you talking about?
 
@LordTracer he suppose to be High 6C up to Low 6B, but y’all want to have him at 6C instead unless there was a revised calc I didn’t see
Literally nobody said that BM would be 6-C. KCM2 would be 6-C, and the Kurama Avatar/BM would still be High 6-C, up to Low 6-B.
 
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