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Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

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LordTracer said:
The Five-Tails made him bleed though.
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Good point, but the five tails' move is specifically made to make ppl bleed based on the horns, which count as the piercing damage thing and such. Cause he tried the bs again and Killer B punched the shit out of em.
Dura feats on survival need to be looked indepth, or else Gaara would've gotten City Block Level+ for surviving Lee's attack, Naruto would've gotten dura feats from surviving getting stabbed by Sasuke's chidori, Obito would've gotten another Mountain Level+ Dura feat from surviving getting stabbed by Kakashi. Not all survival is durability.
Plus, no one harmed B on the same level that the Bijuudama did, so again, even if he gets the dura, no one scales.
LordTracer said:
And I guess? Idk, DC isn’t really used here.
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I just meant by that that the damage shown shouldn't really be used, especially cause people attack via purely force that won't be shown.
LordTracer said:
Even if he isn’t straight up at 0, Gyūki would still be extremely low on chakra.
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Good point, but it's not like he's just dropped on chakra since.
Right before he got hit with his own attack, he made a head sized bijuudama while smiling and while dropping from mid air. They ran out of chakra from getting shat on. They say Naruto ran out of chakra, and not even a full chapter later, he makes rasenshurikens.
LordTracer said:
Suigetsu could get a tier for when he absorbs more water. And it being Suigetsu doesn’t matter when it isn’t his base self, it’s a much stronger version of him, so not an anti-feat. And also Suigetsu got knocked unconscious by it, sooooooo.
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True
LordTracer said:
Yeah, being in an explosion tends to do that. Being in pain doesn’t mean your durability doesn’t scale. I can give some examples of characters on this wiki that have feats where they were screaming and in pain as their durability justification if you want.
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I would just need context. I can see 2000 profiles w/ people who have that, but if i don't know context "he has low pain tolerance, he had ptsd, he was getting harmed somewhere else", then it would be a completely different story.
Killer B just got hit by his own attack, and the Gyuki stopped fighting for 4 chapters because of it. It's not even like when he was getting jumped and said "nah" and fought back, he sat down and didn't even help the barrage against the juubi while Naruto (the other drained Jinchuriki) kept going.
LordTracer said:
I meant when he caught Kurama’s Bijuudama and ate it. B even says that he contained the explosion.
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Now that I'm looking at it again, inside Naruto's head, stuff was not the same.
Naruto was levitating in base. That says a lot.
Killer B's tentacles got chopped up by Kurama and he didn't even blink. Gyuki lost one tentacle and was howling in pain.
The remainder of Gyuki's body was an arm and the middle of a tentacle, then it transformed into the head. Isn't it based on what limb you transform first?
Naruto did sage mode with a crap ton of clones, before he couldn't do 5.
Naruto could even use the torii seal inside (bootleg Deity Gates). That would've been helpful against the bijuu.
All feats done inside Naruto's head should be taken with a grain of salt, cause if we took them into consideration, Naruto should've been able to fight the bijuu w/out bijuu mode.
LordTracer said:
Well then it isn’t isn’t showing Bijuudama blasts being weaker than the bombs, especially when Oro still got broke silly OwO
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Took a stronger (2+ tails) Naruto to hold the ball while the 4 tails sunk into the ground, soooo
 
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Metalija said:
It could be, but we don't know exactly how casual it was.
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That was extremely casual. He pulled his blade out of the shaft and it did that to the mountains, it's not even like he swung his sword, he just pulled it out.
 
KingTempest said:
Good point, but the five tails' move is specifically made to make ppl bleed based on the horns, which count as the piercing damage thing and such.
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I don’t actually treat piercing damage as a thing, I just joke about it a lot because people get unreasonable with it and act like you can overcome differences of hundreds of times just because you have a sharp stick.
KingTempest said:
Dura feats on survival need to be looked indepth, or else Gaara would've gotten City Block Level+ for surviving Lee's attack, Naruto would've gotten dura feats from surviving getting stabbed by Sasuke's chidori, Obito would've gotten another Mountain Level+ Dura feat from surviving getting stabbed by Kakashi. Not all survival is durability.
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Getting stabbed is different, because you’re actually having your skin pierced, so that would be overcoming the durability. You do have a point with Gaara/Lee, although that could just mean Gaara should have 8-B+ durability with the sand armor.
KingTempest said:
Plus, no one harmed B on the same level that the Bijuudama did, so again, even if he gets the dura, no one scales.
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Actually, not quite. They would be able to backscale from it, which would still be Island level, just on a lower level. Even if we said Gyūki’s Bijuudama was equal to the Two through Seven-Tails’ Bijuudamas, that would mean his durability scales to 26.11 gigatons. That’s 6.07x above baseline Island level. So even if none of the Bijuu harm him as much as the Bijuudama did, they still harmed him and would backscale, but it’d still be Island level. It’s not a small enough difference to say they backscale to High 7-A+ or something (and btw, even if they did, that would still make KCM2 and Madara 6-C since they’d just upscale to baseline).
KingTempest said:
Good point, but it's not like he's just dropped on chakra since.
Right before he got hit with his own attack, he made a head sized bijuudama while smiling and while dropping from mid air. They ran out of chakra from getting shat on. They say Naruto ran out of chakra, and not even a full chapter later, he makes rasenshurikens.
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Fair.
KingTempest said:
I would just need context. I can see 2000 profiles w/ people who have that, but if i don't know context "he has low pain tolerance, he had ptsd, he was getting harmed somewhere else", then it would be a completely different story.
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Just on a quick glance:
Superman: “He withstood an explosion at a point-blank range equivalent to 50 Keplar Supernovas while severely weakened by red sun radiation.”
KingTempest said:
All feats done inside Naruto's head should be taken with a grain of salt, cause if we took them into consideration, Naruto should've been able to fight the bijuu w/out bijuu mode.
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Weeeeeell, he did have a very prolonged struggle with Son Gokū in KCM, which appeared to end in Naruto actually overpowering him and forcing his jaw back open.
 
Sometimes I feel like I don't know how to elaborate LMFAO
LordTracer said:
I don’t actually treat piercing damage as a thing, I just joke about it a lot because people get unreasonable with it and act like you can overcome differences of hundreds of times just because you have a sharp stick.
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Oof, good point
LordTracer said:
Getting stabbed is different, because you’re actually having your skin pierced, so that would be overcoming the durability. You do have a point with Gaara/Lee, although that could just mean Gaara should have 8-B+ durability with the sand armor.
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True
LordTracer said:
Actually, not quite. They would be able to backscale from it, which would still be Island level, just on a lower level. Even if we said Gyūki’s Bijuudama was equal to the Two through Seven-Tails’ Bijuudamas, that would mean his durability scales to 26.11 gigatons. That’s 6.07x above baseline Island level. So even if none of the Bijuu harm him as much as the Bijuudama did, they still harmed him and would backscale, but it’d still be Island level. It’s not a small enough difference to say they backscale to High 7-A+ or something (and btw, even if they did, that would still make KCM2 and Madara 6-C since they’d just upscale to baseline).
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I was referring to the striking and physical stuff. Clearly the bijuudamas scale, but the belly flops, elbows, and all of that are mountain at best. If there was a small island level or sum, then probably that, but 6-C punches? Nah. They didn't do nearly as much damage as those bijuudamas.
LordTracer said:
Just on a quick glance:
Superman: “He withstood an explosion at a point-blank range equivalent to 50 Keplar Supernovas while severely weakened by red sun radiation.”
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See, this is is BEAUTIFUL. Context can change an entire verse. He was massively weakened, then took the explosion and kept doing what he had to do, not taking an explosion at perfectly fine health and takes a break for 4 chapters.
LordTracer said:
Weeeeeell, he did have a very prolonged struggle with Son Gokū in KCM, which appeared to end in Naruto actually overpowering him and forcing his jaw back open.
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I meant to say w/out Kurama's chakra, but that works.
 
KingTempest said:
I was referring to the striking and physical stuff. Clearly the bijuudamas scale, but the belly flops, elbows, and all of that are mountain at best. If there was a small island level or sum, then probably that, but 6-C punches? Nah. They didn't do nearly as much damage as those bijuudamas.
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That’s exactly what I meant too. Gyūki’s durability scales to the Bijuudama, right? This Bijuudama, if we say it’s equal to all the others, is 6.07x baseline Island level. That’s too big of a gap for the other Bijuu to backscale to a lower tier, even if they didn’t do as much damage. And even if you said their physicals backscale to High 7-A+, their non-exploded Bijuudama (if we’re treating it as superior to their physicals), would upscale to baseline 6-C.

No matter how you slice it, you end up with the Bijuu at 6-C, KCM2 Naruto and Edo Madara would then scale to that.
 
Bijuudamas have huge AoE but in terms of AP they were never shown to be massively above Bijuus physicals. Gyuki tanked its own Bijuu bomb, as well as 6 tailed Naruto, and we know that Bijuu can physically harm each other. So Bijuu are physically 6-C. Also Ten Tails tanked its own TBB.
 
The entire argument off of that would just be if the non exploded bijuudamas scaled above their physicals. We have a few to argue off of w/ that.
The wood dragon (took up 2 pages worth on talking about that), and all Hashirama feats with it.

And I think I finally found something that would've destroyed the entire argument about a non exploding bijuudama.

Killer B held a non exploding Bijuudama for a good amount of time. This so far is the strongest thing the Juubi has produced (not including the cataclysm, I have no idea how it compares), since Madara says that he's not holding back. This is a higher tier of multi-continental than before.

This bijuudama, not even half the size of the other one (before the other one finished growing) was the one wiping out cities and mountain ranges, just wanted you to know.
Now look at this and tell me it makes sense for Killer Bee's body (which got shat on by his own tiny ass bijuudama) to hold it.

This thing, if exploded, would kill everybody there. I'm at least 100% sure that everyone would've died, I'm pretty sure I don't need to debate Killer B's small country self tanking a multi-cont bijuudama.

Non exploding Juubidama < Killer B's Durability <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Exploding Juubidama.
 
KingTempest said:
The entire argument off of that would just be if the non exploded bijuudamas scaled above their physicals.
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Not really. Even if they were backscaled to High 7-A+, KCM2 and Madara would still upscale to 6-C.
KingTempest said:
Killer B held a non exploding Bijuudama for a good amount of time. This so far is the strongest thing the Juubi has produced (not including the cataclysm, I have no idea how it compares), since Madara says that he's not holding back. This is a higher tier of multi-continental than before.

This bijuudama, not even half the size of the other one (before the other one finished growing) was the one wiping out cities and mountain ranges, just wanted you to know.
Now look at this and tell me it makes sense for Killer Bee's body (which got shat on by his own tiny ass bijuudama) to hold it.

This thing, if exploded, would kill everybody there. I'm at least 100% sure that everyone would've died, I'm pretty sure I don't need to debate Killer B's small country self tanking a multi-cont bijuudama.
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One word: outlier. Gyūki doesn’t scale to the Juubi, at all. Hell, even Kurama doesn’t.

It’s really not that difficult to understand. Gyūki survived his Bijuudama, which is 6.07x baseline 6-C. The other Bijuu can physically harm him. A 6.07x difference is NOT enough for the Bijuu to backscale to High 7-A+. And even if they did, KCM2 Naruto casually slapped away five of their Bijuudama. Simultaneously slapping away five High 7-A+ attacks is more than enough for him to to 6-C, and Madara then scales above KCM2 Naruto.

You can downgrade the Bijuu’s physicals to High 7-A+ if you want (even though it doesn’t make sense), but KCM2 and Madara would still end up at 6-C.
 
Metalija said:
Bijuudamas have huge AoE but in terms of AP they were never shown to be massively above Bijuus physicals. Gyuki tanked its own Bijuu bomb, as well as 6 tailed Naruto, and we know that Bijuu can physically harm each other. So Bijuu are physically 6-C. Also Ten Tails tanked its own TBB.
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Gyuki can tank his own 6-C Bijuubomb, but his profile says nothing about he can tank his Full Power (Low 6-B) Bijuubomb. So Full Power Bijuu Bomb may scale massively above Bijuu's physical stats. Bijuu Bomb is also varies in power.
 
A Bijuudama charged as much as Gyūki and Kurama’s combined Bijuudama, absolutely. The normal Bijuudama that we saw Gyūki spamming, not so much.
 
@Kin201 he didn't tank it, you can see from the scans he was bleeding and he took a break for 4 chapters.

@LordTracer this wouldn't be an outlier since we already saw Killer B push the 1 bijuudama back inside of the Juubi's mouth. 2 consistent feats w/ non exploded bijuudamas.

Killer B obviously scales, to the non exploded bijuudama. To the actual bijuudama explosion, no. Same w/ Naruto.

I meant to say that it matters if non exploded = exploded which would justify 6-C non bijuu mode Naruto, which we know is not the case.
 
KingTempest said:
I meant to say that it matters if non exploded = exploded which would justify 6-C non bijuu mode Naruto, which we know is not the case.
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Actually Naruto’s Rasenshuriken that killed Kakuzu was stated to be Minato level so UwU

Okay... but that still doesn’t really change my point. Even if you say the Bijuu’s non-exploded Bijuudama backscale to High 7-A+ (and they can’t because of how big the difference is), KCM2 Naruto would upscale to 6-C.

That was the entire point of this discussion, remember. It was about KCM2 Naruto and Madara being 6-C.
 
Technically it was M3X’s proposal, I just copied and pasted it since he couldn’t figure out the new editing system.

But there wasn’t much to discuss with multipliers anyways. We don’t have any new ones or anything.
 
BlackeJan said:
I honestly dont see why they would lose it....those gates where able to hold down the Juubi so that should warrant then High 6A. I mean compare Orochimaru using those gates vs Hashirama....
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IIRC The 10 Pentaton Calc was deemed invalid but there's still the 5 Pentaton Calc and it was argued that the Deity Gates do not scale to the Jubi since they are Sealing Jutsu and vice versa SM Mokuton Jutsu does not scale to the Jubi via Deity Gates because they're different Jutsu
 
@BlackeJan

It doesn't matter what the Deity Gates' AP is because there's no reliable way to scale it to his Mokuton.

Furthermore, if we scale SM Hashirama to the Juubi, then the 10x multiplier can't be used for SM because the difference between Low 6-B and High 6-A is so so MUCH more than 10x. So it just doesn't work no matter how you slice it.
 
Damage3245 said:
You know, I feel like this would have gone smoother if we'd made a separate thread for each major arc.

Right now, I'm totally lost.
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Same, that's why I wanted to wait to do these revisions so I could gather everything and make it more organized. As it currently is, this thread is all over the place.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
IIRC The 10 Pentaton Calc was deemed invalid but there's still the 5 Pentaton Calc and it was argued that the Deity Gates do not scale to the Jubi since they are Sealing Jutsu
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That wouldnt make sense either....Hashirama necklace was suppose to stop Naruto from rampaging yet 6Tails crushed it without a second thought. Sealing technique requires strength in order to suppress something/someone

EDIT: Also just because its not his Mokuto doesn't mean it cant be that high....this is Hashirama we are talking about, but lets do it like this....could Yamato (Mokuto/Sealing Technique) suppress Kurama?
 
@LordTracer it being a large difference doesn't mean anything for their a charged up version of their ultimate attack. Especially if they get knocked out or put down by it. That's like saying the lava rocks that Roshi throws should scale to the bijuudamas
Can you inform me again of the reason Naruto is 6-C? Is it because he slapped 5 bijuudamas?

@Kin201 there is a severe and crucial difference between durability and endurance.
Madara survived getting cut in half by Sasuke, is that durability too?
Tsunade got impaled stomach to back by a Susanoo blade, is that durability too?
Naruto survived getting stabbed by Sasuke through his lung, is that durability too?
Kisame survived a lariat with his chest blown out, is that durability too?

If I sound hostile, I apologize, but the logic is, with all respect, stupid.

It's like if someone has a dura of 50 and they get hit by an attack with 300 (bijuudama) and survives because they can resist a lot of damage, and anyone who hits them with 51 (a slap) should scale too by this logic. It's like saying Rock Lee scales to Orochimaru cause he hurt Sasuke who survived Orochimaru's bite (i know that's extreme, but my point still stands).
 
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