Nacht Faust vs Kizaru (11-4-0

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Nacht Faust versus Kizaru

• No Prep
• Win by KO, Death, BFR, or Incap
• Strongest versions of each
• Standard equipment
• Speed Equal

Nacht Wins : 11
Kizaru Wins: 4
Incon: 0

 

[KingogKings777]

I want to say Nacht has a better chance of winning due to hax.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is a stomp, Nacht can't do anything against kizaru's light intangabilty and resists shadow manipulation via haki

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

This is a stomp, Nacht can't do anything against kizaru's light intangabilty and resists shadow manipulation via haki

What about Monument?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What about Monument?

The same way the shadow fruit won't be able to "move" haki users, it will do the same to that shadow ability

The darkness dimension from Blackbeard's fruit as well

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

The same way the shadow fruit won't be able to "move" haki users, it will do the same to that shadow ability

The darkness dimension from Blackbeard's fruit as well

I'm not sure I understand, it feels like you're comparing apples to oranges. Do we think all shadow based abilities operate the same? Because Nacht doesn't do what you posted.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm not sure I understand, it feels like you're comparing apples to oranges. Do we think all shadow based abilities operate the same? Because Nacht doesn't do what you posted.

The shadow moves them into a separate dimension... Literally what blackbeard does

Darkness Manipulation, Absorption, Gravity Manipulation, BFR, Pseudo Black Hole Creation, Madness Manipulation (Type 3; Those who are absorbed by Blackbeard's darkness are left as a mentally unstable mess with only a few seconds of exposure)

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

The same way the shadow fruit won't be able to "move" haki users, it will do the same to that shadow ability

The darkness dimension from Blackbeard's fruit as well

The dimension that Blackbeard has is completely different from Nacht, Nacht has a dimension that have no life, no death, no light and it does not even exist physically

You need conceptual manipulation (or dimensional travelling I guess) to break the dimension or escape

But whatever, the thread is gonna become "Haki nullifies everything"

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

The shadow moves them into a separate dimension... Literally what blackbeard does

Black Beard states he can trap light...
Edit: So i dont know why you're using him as an example, and again the abilities you're comparing Nacht to are not like Nacht.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The dimension that Blackbeard has is completely different from Nacht, Nacht has a dimension that have no life, no death, no light and it does not even exist physically

You need conceptual manipulation (or dimensional travelling I guess) to break the dimension or escape

But whatever, the thread is gonna become "Haki nullifies everything"

What the dimensions does doesn't matter... Both abilities are bfr by transferring them into a different dark dimension... The transfer itself won't happen

Black Beard states he can trap light...

Not haki users.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

What the dimensions does doesn't matter... Both abilities are bfr by transferring them into a different dark dimension... The transfer itself won't happen

The transfer is completely different because is SEALING

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

What the dimensions does doesn't matter... Both abilities are bfr by transferring them into a different dark dimension... The transfer itself won't happen

Not haki users.

Nacht doesn't transport you anywhere closes you into the dimension.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The transfer is completely different because is SEALING

that's after they've been transferred into the dimension... If you aren't transferred, there's no sealing

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Nacht doesn't transport you anywhere closes you into the dimension.

... That is transferring you into it?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

that's after they've been transferred into the dimension...

They are not transfered, two halves of a large black tomb seals both fighters and then they are trapped in the dimension

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

that's after they've been transferred into the dimension... If you aren't transferred, there's no sealing

He doesn't transport them, the seal forms around them and closes on them. Seen here. That's my first issue with your argument, my second issue is you comparing Nacht to Black Beard when Black Beard doesn't use shadows, and comparing him to someone who uses shadow manipulation in a completely different way than Nacht.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

They are not transfered, two halves of a large black tomb seals both fighters and then they are trapped in the dimension

this is what it says on the profile

• BFR (Can drag his opponents into a shadow, removing them from the battlefield)

Unless you can prove the ability somehow doesn't transfer you into a different dimension, then its the same as blackbeard's bfr

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Anyways I counted the Kizaru vote, and I don't want to go in circles on my own thread. I do feel like you're being pretty dishonest with how we are looking at Nacht's magic compared to things that aren't like his magic in the slightest.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

this is what it says on the profile

• BFR (Can drag his opponents into a shadow, removing them from the battlefield)

Unless you can prove the ability somehow doesn't transfer you into a different dimension, then its the same as blackbeard bfr

That is another BFR <3

I don't have to prove anything, you don't understand how his power work in the first place and even after explaining you don't want to understand

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

this is what it says on the profile

• BFR (Can drag his opponents into a shadow, removing them from the battlefield)

Unless you can prove the ability somehow doesn't transfer you into a different dimension, then its the same as blackbeard's bfr

He can do this, but that's a different ability...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That is another BFR <3

I don't have to prove anything, you don't understand how his power work in the first place and even after explaining you don't want to understand

bro you haven't even explained anything, and have switched arguments mid way as well. You don't even understand it is what I'm seeing which makes me believe your just making assumptions

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

bro you haven't even explained anything, and have switched arguments mid way as well. You don't even understand it is what I'm seeing which makes me believe your just making assumptions

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

bro you haven't even explained anything and have switched arguments mid way as well, you don't even understand it is what I'm seeing which makes me believe your just making assumptions

Let me explain.

Nacht can transverse through shadows and he can pull people through them, that's his standard BFR and that's what you mentioned above, we can see that here.
Monument of Atonement is not like this, Nacht is not dragging you around, the seal is created around the target and it closes them inside as seen here for the second time.

You are conflating these two abilities when they shouldn't be.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He can do this, but that's a different ability...

So then it's like this

Combined with dimensional transfer

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

So then it's like this

Combined with dimensional transfer

Idk, does that box require Conceptual Manipulation to interact with?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Idk, does that box require Conceptual Manipulation to interact with?

Nah... Why would that matter?

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Nah... Why would that matter?

Because Nacht's magic doesn't physically exist, it lacks substance, and it removes the concepts of light, life, and death... The Devil Twins had to burn/freeze concepts to escape.

You have read Black Clover right?

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Also, I feel it's prudent to mention that Black Clover involves layers of power nullification and resistance so Haki fully negating his Magic might not work like you think. You might also be overestimating Haki here; in Blackbeard's case, he would likely trap or affect Haki users, with only those possessing top-tier Haki being able to resist him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You have read Black Clover right?

nah, only watched the anime

Because Nacht's magic doesn't physically exist, it lacks substance

So then its similar to Uta's bfr...? (Doesn't have a profile yet) Tho instead of transferring bodies, she transfers their souls

• Immersion, Sleep Manipulation, Soul Manipulation Sealing and Mental BFR (By singing, Uta can cause anyone who hears her to fall asleep[2] where their souls are stolen and transported into Uta World, which is an "imaginary world" separated from reality[2])

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also, I feel it's prudent to mention that Black Clover involves layers of power nullification and resistance so Haki fully negating his Magic might not work like you think. You might also be overestimating Haki here; in Blackbeard's case, he would likely trap or affect Haki users, with only those possessing top-tier Haki being able to resist him.

he's a haki user himself... That is why

|Effective against physical disables other than nature-based abilities
Besides natural-types, the Armament Color's high ki is also effective against physical nullifiers such as rubber and mochi. If both parties are Haiki-users, the degree of their proficiency is important.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Also I forgot to mention, Nacht's shadows can interact with elemental intangible beings.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You need elemental intangabilty negation... Interacting isn't enough for logias

 

[Epsilon_R]

nah, only watched the anime

So then its similar to Uta's bfr...? (Doesn't have a profile yet) Tho instead of transferring bodies, she transfers their souls

That's not the same thing, that world still exists, but is separated from reality, much like Dorothy's Dream World

Nacht creates a non-existent place

 

[Epsilon_R]

Basically, the Moment Nacht traps Kizaru, Kizaru should automatically disappear due to being light itself, as light can't exist within Monument of Atonement.

Yeah, I think I'll vote Nacht

 

[Joshyyy_64]

The same way the shadow fruit won't be able to "move" haki users, it will do the same to that shadow ability

The darkness dimension from Blackbeard's fruit as well

Are you making haki and magic equal? Because in black clover the only way to resist magic or nullify an opponents spells is by having greater magic power. Like an aura of it and that's if you're not using anti magic

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Are you making haki and magic equal? Because in black clover the only way to resist magic or nullify an opponents spells is by having greater magic power. Like an aura of it and that's if you're not using anti magic

Ignore that, I reread the OP, there's no SBA

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So then its similar to Uta's bfr...? (Doesn't have a profile yet) Tho instead of transferring bodies, she transfers their souls

No.

The same way the shadow fruit won't be able to "move" haki users, it will do the same to that shadow ability

The darkness dimension from Blackbeard's fruit as well

Uh.. no…

The shadow moves them into a separate dimension... Literally what blackbeard does

You are physically dragged by Nacht with numerous shadow hands that spawn around you.

---

All this haki negging devil fruit doesn’t mean it negs everything supernatural.

And since Kizaru is light and the shadow hard counters light in the series, even the BFR removes the concept of light. Yeah Nacht is easily winning this.

 

[Idkwhyimhere3]

Update
Looks like it's 3 votes Nacht 1 vote Kizaru and 0 votes Incon

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You are physically dragged by Nacht with numerous shadow hands that spawn around you.

Kizaru is intangible + can separate himself into small particles, he's not getting touched or dragged at all

 

[Epsilon_R]

There also Walgner's cry, which would freeze Kizaru in place, at which point, Nacht would just use his Monument of Atonement easily.