Mori Dan vs Sonic the Hedgehog (9-7-1)

[azontr]

I have no idea how he would grab Sonic's leg if it's tucked under his quills when he's a death ball that instantly explodes whatever touches it from any direction. It doesn't seem very realistic.

I used his legs as a loose example of Mori just grabbing a body part while Sonic was spinning, stinky. Mori could yoink literally any exposed limb.

 

[azontr]

Homing Attack and Spindash are incompatible to be stacked at the very least because they are the same thing, one's just aerial homing and the other is grounded.

By that, i meant Sonic could apparently just spam spindash and stack its amps to get a continuously larger amp. Apparently.

 

[One-Mastor]

By that, i meant Sonic could apparently just spam spindash and stack its amps to get a continuously larger amp. Apparently.

Talk to the experts, the speed amp of Sonic is a mistery for me

 

[SeijiSetto]

By that, i meant Sonic could apparently just spam spindash and stack its amps to get a continuously larger amp. Apparently.

Nnnnope, I don't think so. Spindash is one technique. It boosts his speed by ~54.7x. Spindashing again will do nothing but maintain that amp.

 

[One-Mastor]

Mori has copied barehand sword styles which have been demonstrated to be able to clash with actual blades, so his hands would be fine at the very least. Can't comment on the rest.

It'd be kind of a stupid idea anyway to let Sonic get into physical range considering he'd know Sonic would whoop him.

Sonic easily close the distance via CC, no?

 

[azontr]

Nnnnope, I don't think so. Spindash is one technique. It boosts his speed by ~54.7x. Spindashing again will do nothing but maintain that amp.

I mean, that's not what I was told, and apparently Sonic has other speed amps outside of spindash anyway, sooooo

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Which Mori, with his vastly superior predictive capability, would just see ahead, and proceed to paralyze Sonic's nerves with acupuncture the moment he tries to change direction.

Good luck trying to hit his nerves when he's in a ball form, and also, Sonic would just move out of the way due to being over 50 times faster

Read above.

Above.

AD means Sonic will eventually blitz him even if he reacts to people 400 times faster than his combat speed

 

[SeijiSetto]

I mean, that's not what I was told, and apparently Sonic has other speed amps outside of spindash anyway, sooooo

Eh, aight. I've played a couple games and you can't double-spindash or anything, it is a speed boost that you do once and to do it again it typically requires you to stop and rev it up again.

Sonic easily close the distance via CC, no?

He could, yeah. But Mori would probably sense it coming to an extent. Honestly I think he should have BFR of his own via opening portals to alternate dimensions. Wouldn't do much except stall since Sonic can get back even without a Chaos Emerald, but still.

Don't forget Mori has concept hax which is a guaranteed gg if he feels pressured to the extent that he uses it. With that, he could honestly just remove the ability to go fast and his strength or some shit like that from the concept that makes up Sonic's being at which point he wins.

 

[azontr]

Good luck trying to hit his nerves when he's in a ball form, and also, Sonic would just move out of the way due to being over 50 times faster

What's exactly obstructing him from doing so while Sonic's in ball form...? Sonic's nerves don't disappear when he curls up into a ball lol.

AD means Sonic will eventually blitz him even if he reacts to people 400 times faster than his combat speed

He has to do it instantly for it to be of any relevance before Sonic gets paralyzed, so "eventually" isn't gonna cut it.

 

[One-Mastor]

Eh, aight. I've played a couple games and you can't double-spindash or anything, it is a speed boost that you do once and to do it again it typically requires you to stop and rev it up again.

He could, yeah. But Mori would probably sense it coming to an extent. Honestly I think he should have BFR of his own via opening portals to alternate dimensions. Wouldn't do much except stall since Sonic can get back even without a Chaos Emerald, but still.

Don't forget Mori has concept hax which is a guaranteed gg if he feels pressured to the extent that he uses it. With that, he could honestly just remove the ability to go fast and his strength or some shit like that from the concept that makes up Sonic's being at which point he wins.

Range in the concept hax?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

What's exactly obstructing him from doing so while Sonic's in ball form...? Sonic's nerves don't disappear when he curls up into a ball lol.

Because he wouldn't be able to reach his nerves to paralyse him while Sonic is in ball form? The nerves are located in the body but the quills don't have nerves and will prevent him from touching them.

He has to do it instantly for it to be of any relevance before Sonic gets paralyzed, so "eventually" isn't gonna cut it.

How often does he start with paralysis? Since speed amps from spin dash, lightspeed attack and more are things Sonic do a lot in character, and the AD is passive so Sonic is gonna adapt too

 

[azontr]

Because he wouldn't be able to reach his nerves to paralyse him while Sonic is in ball form? The nerves are located in the body but the quills don't have nerves and will prevent him from touching them.

Mori's acupuncture works through physical obstructs like armor, clothing, etc. He could poke Sonic's quills and still hit his body hidden beneath the quills.

How often does he start with paralysis? Since speed amps from spin dash, lightspeed attack and more are things Sonic do a lot in character, and the AD is passive so Sonic is gonna adapt too

Depends on his mindset. Assuming he's bloodlusted/pissed in this match, he'll immediately start with acupuncture (assuming he knows it'll work), if he's not pissed off he'll start with Martial Arts and literally anything else.

 

[One-Mastor]

Better remake the wincons, it's a loot or arguments here and confusing easily

 

[SeijiSetto]

He has to do it instantly for it to be of any relevance before Sonic gets paralyzed, so "eventually" isn't gonna cut it.

Seconding this. Speed equal so they're both as fast as each other. Sonic only really "jumps" instantly if his opponent is far superior to him, Mori starts off just as fast and physically weaker, so his AD would just mean he gets gradually stronger rather than hopping tiers instantly like he did against Emerl, for example.

If Mori prioritises using his hax off the get go (which he should, being as smart and skilled as he is + his Info Analysis), he could make it work.

and the AD is passive so Sonic is gonna adapt too

See above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless he's massively outclassed he doesn't just make huge jumps, right?

How often does he start with paralysis? Since speed amps from spin dash, lightspeed attack and more are things Sonic do a lot in character, and the AD is passive so Sonic is gonna adapt too

Info Analysis would tell him Sonic has no resistance. It's so busted he'd essentially see all the different things Sonic is weak to or Sonic can do right off the bat and be able to formulate a plan from there. He can summon a clone that's even better at it than he is. Speaking of which, how well would Sonic deal with 7 other Moris all equally as strong as him?

Range in the concept hax?

I believe it's melee range, maybe a little longer.

 

[azontr]

I believe it's melee range, maybe a little longer.

The range varies, but Mori does have to physically interact with the Core Element unlike Mujin.

 

[SeijiSetto]

The range varies, but Mori does have to physically interact with the Core Element unlike Mujin.

I said melee range based on Ch480, where Mujin blitzes all of Satan's clones, punches cross-shaped holes in them and does the classic quickdraw thing where Satan doesn't even realise he's hurt until Mujin turns back with the Core Element in his hands.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Mori's acupuncture works through physical obstructs like armor, clothing, etc. He could poke Sonic's quills and still hit his body hidden beneath the quills.

Depends on his mindset. Assuming he's bloodlusted/pissed in this match, he'll immediately start with acupuncture (assuming he knows it'll work), if he's not pissed off he'll start with Martial Arts and literally anything else.

Well it was said he's not bloodlusted here so he probably won't use it right away

 

[azontr]

I said melee range based on Ch480, where Mujin blitzes all of Satan's clones, punches cross-shaped holes in them and does the classic quickdraw thing where Satan doesn't even realise he's hurt until Mujin turns back with the Core Element in his hands.

Mujin doesn't exactly need to touch people to do that. He kinda just can.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Better remake the wincons, it's a loot or arguments here and confusing easily

I already put the main ones here.

Assuming he's bloodlusted/pissed in this match, he'll immediately start with acupuncture (assuming he knows it'll work), if he's not pissed off he'll start with Martial Arts and literally anything else.

He doesn't even need to be bloodlusted. Ch76, against one of Ilpyo's teammates, he initially opened up with Martial Arts but then attempted to use acupuncture once it started becoming even slightly less effective. And in this situation he was far superior to his opponent, let alone here where he's at a huge physical disadvantage. I think it'd be one of his opening moves.

 

[azontr]

Well it was said he's not bloodlusted here so he probably won't use it right away

I'd point out that while Mori does not start the fight off pissed seemingly, he has very potent information Analysis, which will alert him of Sonic's strength advantage and probably lead him to use things like Acupuncture earlier on in the fight.

If you don't agree with that interpretation, cool, just saying given the circumstances of the battle Mori will probably be willing to pull out all the stops against Sonic, who is much stronger than him physically.

 

[LaserPrecision]

See above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless he's massively outclassed he doesn't just make huge jumps, right?

His jumps are larger when facing someone stronger. But aren't exclusive to that. From sitting in a cell and being tortured for months allowed him to make a significant jump (IF my CRT goes through, hundreds of times stronger). There's prolly other examples I'm missing. But as Sonic put it, he gets stronger every second passively.

 

[One-Mastor]

Info Analysis would tell him Sonic has no resistance. It's so busted he'd essentially see all the different things Sonic is weak to or Sonic can do right off the bat and be able to formulate a plan from there. He can summon a clone that's even better at it than he is. Speaking of which, how well would Sonic deal with 7 other Moris all equally as strong as him?

Adventure Sonic don't have Cloning like Modern in Super, no? So, possibly this escenary can activate his AD massive, or can use CC to punch original Mori in time stop

 

[SeijiSetto]

His jumps are larger when facing someone stronger. But aren't exclusive to that. From sitting in a cell and being tortured for months allowed him to make a significant jump (IF my CRT goes through, hundreds of times stronger). There's prolly other examples I'm missing. But as Sonic put it, he gets stronger every second passively.

I mean, that further reinforces my point. Sonic Battle Sonic jumped... at least millions, I think, when faced with Final Egg Blaster-Powered Emerl. But then FORCES Sonic, who is Modern and far stronger, only jumped hundreds while sitting for six months. Apparently the passive gain is nowhere near as big as when he's massively outclassed. Given, he was - like mentioned - sitting and not fighting, but Mori is weaker than him here, so you get my point.

So, possibly this escenary can activate his AD massive, or can use CC to punch original Mori in time stop

I mean in terms of hax. One Mori has dura-neg vibrations, one has absorption, they can do black hole creation... you get my point.

Well it was said he's not bloodlusted here so he probably won't use it right away

Also, for the sake of noting it: Mori has 21 Yeoui (giant giga-heavy sticks) and one of them can paralyse via shadow manip, so if you aren't happy with believing his acupuncture will go through Sonic's spines, there's another avenue he could go about it.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean, that further reinforces my point. Sonic Battle Sonic jumped... at least millions, I think, when faced with Final Egg Blaster-Powered Emerl. But then FORCES Sonic, who is Modern and far stronger, only jumped hundreds while sitting for six months. Apparently the passive gain is nowhere near as big as when he's massively outclassed.

It's not accepted as hundreds of times yet tbf. Right now it's just an extremely large unquantifiable gap. He also passively jumps to thousands of times stronger in a short period of time (In less than a day). But the thousands thing also isn't accepted yet. But the logic is pretty simple.

 

[One-Mastor]

Also, for the sake of noting it: Mori has 21 Yeoui (giant giga-heavy sticks) and one of them can paralyse via shadow manip, so if you aren't happy with believing his acupuncture will go through Sonic's spines, there's another avenue he could go about it.

Light speed attack to erase his shadow dude, it's obvius Joking
Sonic can counter the offensive in close range to sound and vibration manipulation to push back Mori and stun, both have attack reflection and don't think afterimagen work with the super analysis...

 

[Omegabronic]

Nothing Mori can't easily deal with via sheer skill.

Is he more skilled than sonic is tho?

 

[One-Mastor]

Is he more skilled than sonic is tho?

In hand to hand? Mori Dan and Jin have a loot of martial techniques and more complex, Hand to hand battle style of Sonic don't its comparable

 

[azontr]

Is he more skilled than sonic is tho?

I'd argue he is, yeah.

 

[One-Mastor]

Well, still voting to Sonic FRA in high difficulty

 

[Omegabronic]

I'd argue he is, yeah.

Sonic is quick to adapt nigh instantly to his oponents fighting style and has dwarfed a supergenius invention based on his data and movement patet for years more than 277.000 times, when he got a.swotd he nigh instantly was adept to fight experiencwd swordsman of verious different styles, what does mori have for skill?

 

[azontr]

Sonic is quick to adapt nigh instantly to his oponents fighting style and has dwarfed a supergenius invention based on his data and movement patet for years more than 277.000 times, when he got a.swotd he nigh instantly was adept to fight experiencwd swordsman of verious different styles, what does mori have for skill?

Adapting instantly to someone's style is something even first key Mori can do, with him being able to get one-shot by a move once, instantly counter it, get one-shot by an even more improved version of the move, and then counter it AGAIN and even create an entirely original much more powerful technique based off of the skill that was previously thrashing him.

People like Seungcheol Baek can walk up to a fight scene days after it happened and just from looking at a guy's footprints can visualize the entirety of the fight scene in his head down to the last move, and can even decipher the intentions of the fighters despite having literally nothing to go on but simply some footprints, and he incorporates this level of analytical ability into his fighting style to form a style that combines both "power and knowledge", and he's no match for Mori.

 

[One-Mastor]

Adapting instantly to someone's style is something even first key Mori can do, with him being able to get one-shot by a move once, instantly counter it, get one-shot by an even more improved version of the move, and then counter it AGAIN and even create an entirely original much more powerful technique based off of the skill that was previously thrashing him.

People like Seungcheol Baek can walk up to a fight scene days after it happened and just from looking at a guy's footprints can visualize the entirety of the fight scene in his head down to the last move, and can even decipher the intentions of the fighters despite having literally nothing to go on but simply some footprints, and he incorporates this level of analytical ability into his fighting style to form a style that combines both "power and knowledge", and he's no match for Mori.

Agree in this argument

 

[One-Mastor]

Well, need votes here

 

[SeijiSetto]

People like Seungcheol Baek can walk up to a fight scene days after it happened and just from looking at a guy's footprints can visualize the entirety of the fight scene in his head down to the last move, and can even decipher the intentions of the fighters despite having literally nothing to go on but simply some footprints, and he incorporates this level of analytical ability into his fighting style to form a style that combines both "power and knowledge", and he's no match for Mori.

To add more info, Seungchol lost to Daewi who then did the bullshit about one-shotting Mori twice and him instantly adapting to counter it and then develop a stronger move with none of the requirements. Daewi's skill, the Wave of Blue Dragon, requires an entire setup to do and Mori just... made his own version that he can do at the drop of a hat without any setup. Just like that, off rip.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Isn't Mori breaking the loop of binding a ridiculously busted RPL? He couldn't scare Satan to base nor break the loop even with a 250000x multiplier and his monkey king state (which was directly shown to be a superior amp to a 48x multiplier) but then seconds later he just jumped in power high enough to do both in the span of like 1 kick after his body got ruined from rebound.

Mujin does something similar to Satan where they seem pretty tied, Satan uses jeahbongchim, and Mujin blitzes him seconds after that. (although this one is a bit more vague as Satans multiplier wasn't stated, although it should logically be at least as high as in ragnarok)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Either way it's most likely not that relevant given sonics busted AD, although such addition could help close the gap and give Mori more time to use his hax.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Bump.

 

[One-Mastor]

bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

I vote Moji Fra, i think his paralysis is good.

 

[Omegabronic]

what are the rules for incon? they have both the same number of vote count for a while now, how can we decide when a match up is in incon territory?