(GRACE) Sonic VS Mujin Park

[Mndks]

I wish Muji would win this war

 

[DavidTPPM]

I wish Muji would win this war

Funny thing is that Mujin was winning by a stomp amount but then Sonic goons straight up starting making up resistances that he doesn't have and that they can't prove he should have. Not to mention the whole "amnesia is peak willpower that completely negates the effects of crippling fear" argument

 

[TauanVictor]

Funny thing is that Mujin was winning by a stomp amount but then Sonic goons straight up starting making up resistances that he doesn't have and that they can't prove he should have. Not to mention the whole "amnesia is peak willpower that completely negates the effects of crippling fear" argument

One question, are you going to vote for Mujin or do you think it's a stomp?

 

[Theuser789]

That's literally super sonic not base sonic and it defended him by absorbing the beam, it didn't make him resist the mind control itself.

I don't know what to say. I have explained multiple times this is the emeralds feat. Even if Sonic is holding one that would make him resist the hax. It isn't just "energy absorption", either. The emeralds blocked the hax and then Sonic went Super.

I don't know what to say. I just have to assume you're being purposely ignorant after you refuse every piece of evidence.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't know what to say. I have explained multiple times this is the emeralds feat. Even if Sonic is holding one that would make him resist the hax. It isn't just "energy absorption", either. The emeralds blocked the hax and then Sonic went Super.

The video you sent literally shows sonic going super (which he can't here) and the emeralds absorbing the beam (Mujins mind manip isn't an energy beam). The emeralds didn't passively resist mind manipulation, they actively absorbed a beam of energy with Sonic going super.

I don't know what to say. I just have to assume you're being purposely ignorant after you refuse every piece of evidence.

Your evidence literally doesn't prove what you need it to prove. The one who's purposely ignorant is literally you because you're ignoring how the emeralds actually stopped the mind control beam.

You literally say "Sonic resisted a mind control beam" when it's actually super sonic absorbing the beam and not sonic passively resisting it.

One question, are you going to vote for Mujin or do you think it's a stomp?

It's still very clearly a stomp in Mujins favor but me voting doesn't matter if Sonic goons simply make up resistances he doesn't have to outvote me.

 

[Theuser789]

I have to ask you to stop seething. People just don't disagree with your dismissal of feats and overly aggressive attitude of thinking that "Sonic fans are just making shit up" despite the constant explanations.

I am not going to reply to you if you are just going to keep repeating yourself.

 

[ShakeResounding]

What really caused the shift in votes was that the OP changed from SBA mindset to Bloodlusted mindset, Sonic was getting stomped because he's primarily a CQC fighter and Bloodlust just circumvents that issue for him here.

Sonic FRA.

 

[Eseseso]

Didn't help that Mujin people tried to IIRC downplay Sonic's Supernatural willpower, never mind that in-story his willpower is so strong that THE END, a narcissistic omnicidal death god, noted how unbreakable Sonic's will was.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Didn't help that Mujin people tried to IIRC downplay Sonic's Supernatural willpower, never mind that in-story his willpower is so strong that THE END, a narcissistic omnicidal death god, noted how unbreakable Sonic's will was.

I didn't downplay anything, the problem is that the best feat for his willpower that has been brought up is him surviving amnesia which is supposedly going to counter fear so strong it knocks people unconscious. What's actually getting downplayed here is the fear manipulation. Like bro literally opened up with "fear manip is ass" but somehow I'm the one downplaying.

What really caused the shift in votes was that the OP changed from SBA mindset to Bloodlusted mindset,

The "shift in votes" is straight up just sonic fans coming in and making up abilities Sonic doesn't have.

I have to ask you to stop seething. People just don't disagree with your dismissal of feats and overly aggressive attitude of thinking that "Sonic fans are just making shit up" despite the constant explanations.

You literally never showed any passive mind hax resistance. You showed super sonic absorbing an energy beam and when I said that's not passive mind hax resistance you said "stop seething". Like you are LITERALLY making up a resistance you can't prove he has.

To this point neither a single piece of evidence for passive mind hax resistance for Sonic has been shown nor a single piece of evidence Sonics willpower is enough to get through literally crippling fear.

Actually hilarious.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Oh BTW if we were to assume having amnesia makes you fear proof and super Sonic absorbing energy beame does make him immune to mind hax (lol) than it's a stomp due to smurf abilities so it can't be applied to profiles anyway.
So counting votes is useless regardless

 

[omegabronic]

Oh BTW if we were to assume having amnesia makes you fear proof

my dude, you on purpose simplifying the feats you have been given is the biggest "Big Off" moment here, the fact that you for some reason ignore the actions you are doing, and then impose them on the people that disagreed with you is very weird to me

than it's a stomp due to smurf abilities so it can't be applied to profiles anyway.

Sonic still doesn't resist Soul Deconstruction, so as long as the other guy has wincons, it isn't a stomp

 

[TauanVictor]

Sonic still doesn't resist Soul Deconstruction, so as long as the other guy has wincons, it isn't a stomp

There's Bio Hax too.

 

[DavidTPPM]

my dude, you on purpose simplifying the feats you have been given is the biggest "Big Off" moment here,

I didn't oversimplify anything. The only argument for willpower was, quite literally, "Sonic forgot everything". That is by definition amnesia. It's not an oversimplification, it's a fact that the best feat for willpower yall mentioned was basic amnesia. I even gave you a comparison how even someone like Satan couldn't just resist fear manip despite having enough willpower to keep fighting with his limbs missing, concept missing, regen negated, and with a hole in his chest in comparison.

It's so funny how Satan really went "no concept? Imma beat you up. No arms? Imma kick your ass. No legs? Imma bite your head off" and yall unironically went "hmm okay but Sonic did forget stuff so he's better" yet I'm supposedly the one downplaying here.

Sonic still doesn't resist Soul Deconstruction, so as long as the other guy has wincons, it isn't a stomp

No. Mujin has no way of getting past 5D thought based BFR. This is directly from the One-Shot page:

Normally, when one fighter is capable of one-shotting, it is considered a stomp. It isn't fair when Fighter A can beat Fighter B with a single move, and only serves to either give Fighter A a free win or Fighter B a loss.

Just like with Speed Blitzes, a match where one character can one-shot the other often doesn't allow for much discussion or debate. And largely takes away the majority of one's arsenal, strategies, skills and abilities if someone can just kill them before they get the chance to use them, and it results in a stomp/spite match more often then not. Because of this, it is mandatory to make matches where Fighter A can't one-shot Fighter B, and if Fighter A can, there are feasible ways for Fighter B to get around it.

Meaning it would be a stomp for Mujin if his mind and fear hax aren't resisted and it's a stomp in Sonics favor if they are. This match would not be applicable regardless. I kinda pointed this out very early in the thread when we talked about this being closed.

 

[omegabronic]

I didn't oversimplify anything. The only argument for willpower was, quite literally, "Sonic forgot everything".-

Nope, it isn't, but if you don't want to hear what i said, even when i did so numerous times, it isn't now you will

No. Mujin has no way of getting past 5D thought based BFR. This is directly from the One-Shot page:


Meaning it would be a stomp for Mujin if his mind and fear hax aren't resisted and it's a stomp in Sonics favor if they are. This match would not be applicable regardless. I kinda pointed this out very early in the thread when we talked about this being closed.

Sonic can't one shot, he is not above enough in AP for that, so the example in the page you gave has no sense, specially since by the argument you gave, Sonic is also "one shotted" by Soul Deconstruction

 

[DavidTPPM]

Nope, it isn't, but if you don't want to hear what i said, even when i did so numerous times, it isn't now you will

Quote of how YOU described it.

And Sonic was in a state where he couldn't feel his own body nor remember who he was, as i said, far more dire situations

But when I went on to describe it as amnesia with numbness I was "oversimplifying" even tho forgetting who you are is literally amnesia and Sonic himself described what he felt as his body being numb.

Unironically answer this. Would you rather
1. Have your arms completely destroyed
2. Have a giant hole in your chest
3. Have your knees cut out
4. Have your concept ripped out of your body
And then have to fight, or
1. Not remember who you are
2. Feel numb
And have to fight
Which of these situations would you rather be in. Completely honestly.

Sonic can't one shot, he is not above enough in AP for that, so the example in the page you gave has no sense, specially since by the argument you gave, Sonic is also "one shotted" by Soul Deconstruction

A one shot doesn't have to be through AP. Again from the same page

A one-shot can occur with physical attacks, weapons, special ranged attacks, magical attacks, hax, and more.

Sonic can one shot with thought based BFR which Mujin has no way of bypassing due to its range being 5D.
Mujin also can't one shot due to rings but that doesn't matter either way because whether Mujin can or can't one shot doesn't change whether this is a stomp or not.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Sonic can one shot with thought based BFR which Mujin has no way of bypassing due to its range being 5D.
Mujin also can't one shot due to rings but that doesn't matter either way because whether Mujin can or can't one shot doesn't change whether this is a stomp or not.

Just wanted to tell you, Diamond Sutra negates the rings to my knowledge

Diamond Sutra completely desintegrates your soul immediately while the rings needs you to recieve damage to transfer to themselves

 

[omegabronic]

Quote of how YOU described it.

But when I went on to describe it as amnesia with numbness I was "oversimplifying" even tho forgetting who you are is literally amnesia and Sonic himself described what he felt as his body being numb.

notice how you ignored the elaboration i had here: "oh so losing all of your memory but still being able to fight on and continue to your objective as normal with nothing but willpower, even when you can't remember what it was, not event he people you are doing it for, and not even yourself, is "barely above average willpower"......hu huh, sure, i dunno what kind of real life you have been living in"

you are the one who is not understanding, what he did under those conditions is the willpower, him having those on itself is not, you are acting as if i only told you the latter and not the former, you could have read the profile and figured it out sooner, but i guess you didn't felt like it

A one shot doesn't have to be through AP. Again from the same page

ok, which both have way to do it, also Sonic's is not a one shot ability, it is BFR..........i believed that this much was clear that teleporting people to other dimensions is not a one shot in killing

Sonic can one shot with thought based BFR which Mujin has no way of bypassing due to its range being 5D.

bfr is not one shotting

Mujin also can't one shot due to rings but that doesn't matter either way because whether Mujin can or can't one shot doesn't change whether this is a stomp or not.

yes he can, Rings are damage transferal, not "hax transferal".....pretty sure that such a hax isn't even a thing

also if both can one shot, then yeah it would change since, both are equal in the sense of one shotting

 

[DavidTPPM]

First of all,

Just wanted to tell you, Diamond Sutra negates the rings to my knowledge

yes he can, Rings are damage transferal, not "hax transferal".....pretty sure that such a hax isn't even a thing

I outright asked about this in the thread and got the reply that they probably transfer that as well and nobody went on to correct it until it meant Sonic could get a win on his profile…
Second of all,

notice how you ignored the elaboration i had here: "oh so losing all of your memory but still being able to fight on and continue to your objective as normal with nothing but willpower, even when you can't remember what it was, not event he people you are doing it for, and not even yourself, is "barely above average willpower"......hu huh, sure, i dunno what kind of real life you have been living in"

Because that's memory manip resistance lmao. "oh he forgot everything but he remembered his friends" is straight up memory manip resistance.

Unironically answer this. Would you rather
1. Have your arms completely destroyed
2. Have a giant hole in your chest
3. Have your knees cut out
4. Have your concept ripped out of your body
And then have to fight, or
1. Not remember who you are
2. Feel numb
And have to fight
Which of these situations would you rather be in. Completely honestly.

Because it's very obvious forgetting who you are and being numb is nowhere near as dire as what was described.

But nah I'm the one downplaying, having amnesia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> losing all your limbs, your organs, and your concept.

ok, which both have way to do it, also Sonic's is not a one shot ability, it is BFR..........i believed that this much was clear that teleporting people to other dimensions is not a one shot in killing

A one shotting doesn't just mean killing lmao what ? Once again, from the very same page for the 3rd time,

A One-Shot is a self-explanatory term, referring to defeating an opponent in a single attack.

I can even sprinkle in a little part from the BFR page

As long as they cannot return from wherever they have been transported to within a certain amount of time - a week, going by Standard Battle Assumptions - victory is reached through BFR.

So yeah, Sonic BFRing Mujin is considered a one shot and makes this a stomp.

bfr is not one shotting

Can Mujin win after being BFRed when he has no way to get back within a week? No. Therefore BFR here is a "defeat in a single attack" and by definition is a one shot. And yall said I was the one arguing semantics .
"Nooo Sonic doesn't one shot, he just wins in a single attack!!!"

also if both can one shot, then yeah it would change since, both are equal in the sense of one shotting

No. If we are to restrict Mujins mind manip then Sonic one shots Mujin with BFR and Mujin has literally no way of getting around it. If we don't it's a stomp because Sonic can't do anything before Mujin tells him to khs which would also count for a stomp.

So yeah. It's a one shot stomp that can't be applied.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yall clearly just want to give Sonic a win on his profile no matter what lmao

 

[XxZetsuxX]

First of all,


I outright asked about this in the thread and got the reply that they probably transfer that as well and nobody went on to correct it until it meant Sonic could get a win on his profile…
Second of all,

After i gave my up, I did not show up in this thread ;-;

But the rings is self explanatory, The ring's effect is only showned in Frontiers, So i figured you would know that the rings are only on physical damage attack based and not spiritual or concept or whatever ;-;

 

[DavidTPPM]

After i gave my up, I did not show up in this thread ;-;

But the rings is self explanatory, The ring's effect is only showned in Frontiers, So i figured you would know that the rings are only on physical damage attack based and not spiritual or concept or whatever ;-;

I'm not blaming you. It didn't really matter back then, especially when Sonic didn't even have them.
I'm just pointing out that I directly asked how they work and if they can protect him from dura neg to which you said yes, to which I replied that they should shield him from only 1 attack turning Sonic into soul vapor and nobody went on to correct us.

But suddenly when it's convenient, they go backtrack and decide to correct it. Just shows how people are trying get Sonic a W regardless of what the truth is.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm not blaming you. It didn't really matter back then, especially when Sonic didn't even have them.
I'm just pointing out that I directly asked how they work and if they can protect him from dura neg to which you said yes, to which I replied that they should shield him from only 1 attack turning Sonic into soul vapor and nobody went on to correct us.

But suddenly when it's convenient, they go backtrack and decide to correct it. Just shows how people are trying get Sonic a W regardless of what the truth is.

I see

Btw, When you said Dura neg, I didn't think of soul hax, I thought of the other thing you said, Like spawning things inside Sonic's body

 

[DavidTPPM]

Btw, When you said Dura neg, I didn't think of soul hax, I thought of the other thing you said, Like spawning things inside Sonic's body

Yeah that's just a minor misunderstanding. As I said, it didn't really matter back then since Mujin using it twice instead of once wouldn't change anything anyway.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yeah that's just a minor misunderstanding. As I said, it didn't really matter back then since Mujin using it twice instead of once wouldn't change anything anyway.

Oke

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Sonic fra

 

[Mndks]

Sonic fra

Oc

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Oc

 

[KingTempest]

Requested to be closed