(GRACE) Sonic VS Mujin Park

[DavidTPPM]

It is on the profile, under Indomitable Will. Ome of the first abilities in the key.

I read the key like 5x now and I can't find it . Could you please send me a screenshot of it?

Fear Manip page.

Depending on the user and medium, Fear Manipulation can occasionally be depicted as a power which can be overcome with bravery, willpower and courage.

I mean, sure? Obviously fear can be overcome with bravery, that's like pointing out that soul manip can be overcome by soul manip resistance.
In GoH people like Ahan are incredibly brave and have insane willpower yet she got outright knocked out by fear manipulation. SNWP doesn't give you immunity to fear and could at best minimize its effects over time.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sonic can also teleport out of the Paralysis Inducement at worst via thought-based hax so that isn't an issue.

What hax? The only teleportation I remember him having is using the chaos emeralds. And he can't exactly take out a chaos emerald when he's paralyzed. Although last time I was a sonic fan was when I was 10 so my knowledge on him is extremely outdated.

Regardless I think this is a stomp for Mujin, the real issue is that bro opens with various thought based hax that can end Sonic while Sonic goes for CQC. Only way is to either bloodlust both (which might then be a cheap incon) or give prior knowledge to each but that just seems extra.

Yeah, I'm only really asking around because I'm curious.

Spoiler

I was actually thinking of buying a sonic game but from what I've heard most recent sonic games suck

 

[ShakeResounding]

I read the key like 5x now and I can't find it . Could you please send me a screenshot of it?

Wtf, I just spent 5 minutes trying to find it and it really isn't there, I think that shit got edited out by mistake

I mean, sure? Obviously fear can be overcome with bravery, that's like pointing out that soul manip can be overcome by soul manip resistance.

No, because not every verse treats that as something which is possible. It's verse to verse, so that analogy doesn't work.

What hax? The only teleportation I remember him having is using the chaos emeralds. And he can't exactly take out a chaos emerald when he's paralyzed. Although last time I was a sonic fan was when I was 10 so my knowledge on him is extremely outdated.

Sonic doesn't need to physically grab an Emerald to use it, he can do Chaos Control thought-based. Sonic or Shadow saying Chaos Control is like Discord snapping his fingers, unnecessary but done mostly for show.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Wtf, I just spent 5 minutes trying to find it and it really isn't there, I think that shit got edited out by mistake

I thought I was going blind ngl.

No, because not every verse treats that as something which is possible. It's verse to verse, so that analogy doesn't work.

Yeah yeah but you get my point, obviously a resistance to hax will counter a hax. Overcoming fear with bravery is just fear resistance.

Sonic doesn't need to physically grab an Emerald to use it, he can do Chaos Control thought-based. Sonic or Shadow saying Chaos Control is like Discord snapping his fingers, unnecessary but done mostly for show.

Fr? Sure, that's pretty cool. It's simpler for Mujin to just say "kys" and end it there anyway.

But regarding paralysis, Mujins doesn't work like Apolloniers or Shikamarus where they bind you with some energy. Mujin "freezes" your body. Not literally with ice, your body is just "frozen". So I'm not sure if teleportation helps here.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Fr? Sure, that's pretty cool. It's simpler for Mujin to just say "kys" and end it there anyway.

Bro's the ultimate Twitter user

But regarding paralysis, Mujins doesn't work like Apolloniers or Shikamarus where they bind you with some energy. Mujin "freezes" your body. Not literally with ice, your body is just "frozen". So I'm not sure if teleportation helps here.

Interesting... I'm tempted to say it would mainly because if Sonic's still able to think, he'll be able to use CC. But ultimately it doesn't matter as Mujin stomps, a lot of his in-character moves are devastating thought-based hax and Sonic isn't in any position to use his in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Brogeefrong]

i would have suggested to change it to shadow but he doesnt have 4-A

 

[TauanVictor]

Actually, I take it back, I don't think the OP has optional equipment for Sonic

I changed the OP.

 

[TauanVictor]

Only way is to either bloodlust both (which might then be a cheap incon) or give prior knowledge to each but that just seems extra.

Sounds fair. They're both bloodlusted now.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sounds fair. They're both bloodlusted now.

I don’t think that really changes much. Since Sonic can't outright resist Mujins fear manip he's getting at the worst temporarily stunned which allows Mujin to pull off one of his thought based hax (mainly mind manip) so the result is the same.

If Sonic were to somehow have complete resistance to Mujins passive fear manipulation then it's an incon because they both have thought based hax that can one shot the other person. (unless Sonics BFR isn't thought based, then Mujin stomps either way).

 

[DavidTPPM]

One thing that should also be noted is that Mujin has not just passive fear manipulation but also mind manipulation in general. His presence makes you feel overwhelming awe that makes you want to bow to him and give to everything

While this looks similar to fear manip it's actually a separate ability as it's verbatim stated on screen that it's a different feeling from "fear" or "terror". That feeling being awe.
Which is yet another thing that should stop Sonic from killing Mujin before Mujin can hit him with his hax.

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic resists mindhax.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sonic resists mindhax.

I swear I checked every single ability and resistance in his adventure key and he does not have any mind hax resistance anywhere on it.
Again if I just somehow missed it 5x please show me a screenshot, but I'm almost certain he doesn't have mind hax resistance

 

[Brogeefrong]

I swear I checked every single ability and resistance in his adventure key and he does not have any mind hax resistance anywhere on it.
Again if I just somehow missed it 5x please show me a screenshot, but I'm almost certain he doesn't have mind hax resistance

He at least should have it based on dream stuff and void

 

[DavidTPPM]

He at least should have it based on dream stuff and void

He has resistance to dream manipulation, not mind manipulation.

 

[Brogeefrong]

He has resistance to dream manipulation, not mind manipulation.

Yeah Dream stuff for Sonic encompasses alot

 

[XxZetsuxX]

There's still Soul vapor stuff which Sonic doesn't resist though

Mujin is bloodlusted too

Sonic also doesn't have resistence to fear hax for some reason

 

[omegabronic]

There's still Soul vapor stuff which Sonic doesn't resist though

Mujin is bloodlusted too

both are, and as such Sonic can just insta time stop with Chaos Control to prevent that

Sonic also doesn't have resistence to fear hax for some reason

Supernatural willpower, he will be able to persist even with him being scared

 

[XxZetsuxX]

both are, and as such Sonic can just insta time stop with Chaos Control to prevent that


Supernatural willpower, he will be able to persist even with him being scared

He doesn't have that in his profile though

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh wait, They added it back nvm

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah Dream stuff for Sonic encompasses alot

Not adventure era sonic it doesn't.

Adventure Era Sonic, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles gain:

• Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Concept Destruction; Type 1, Independent Universal Concept. Void is said to possess a power of darkness that can bring an end to Maginaryworld, with Void himself being referred to as said darkness directly on multiple occasions while directly stating he is the dreams themselves, who the cast can withstand attacks from)

Neither the blog nor his profile list any sort of mind manipulation resistance for this key

Supernatural willpower, he will be able to persist even with him being scared

Supernatural willpower is not stopping layered fear manipulation that can outright hospitalize people. Like all Mujin needs to do is to active one of his one shot hax before Sonic uses his while Sonic is getting hit with enough fear to knock a person unconscious.

Plus again, mind manipulation both passive + active end the fight in a single sentence.

 

[Theuser789]

I swear I checked every single ability and resistance in his adventure key and he does not have any mind hax resistance anywhere on it.
Again if I just somehow missed it 5x please show me a screenshot, but I'm almost certain he doesn't have mind hax resistance

He does it with a chaos emerald which I am pretty sure is standard.

 

[DavidTPPM]

He does it with a chaos emerald which I am pretty sure is standard.

He actually does not have it with emeralds as far as I can tell

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[omegabronic]

Not adventure era sonic it doesn't.

Neither the blog nor his profile list any sort of mind manipulation resistance for this key

they should Via what Void that it is what they are resisting

Supernatural willpower is not stopping layered fear manipulation that can outright hospitalize people.

it will since Sonic will have the willpower to not be hospitalized or paralised in fear, he will just push it

Like all Mujin needs to do is to active one of his one shot hax before Sonic uses his

Sonic just needs to think to use Chaos Control, and from there he can time stop or Seal park away

while Sonic is getting hit with enough fear to knock a person unconscious.

Sonic's willpower was able to make him still go while his body was falling apart due to Corruption that was affecting his mind and body, pretty sure pure fear is not enough to surpass that

Plus again, mind manipulation both passive + active end the fight in a single sentence.

and all Sonic needs is to think to use control and counter this

 

[omegabronic]

He actually does not have it with emeralds as far as I can tell

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Chaos Control is not an emerald power, those are specifics powers for different colored emeralds, look at his normal PnA section

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He actually does not have it with emeralds as far as I can tell

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[DavidTPPM]

they should Via what Void that it is what they are resisting

Then there should probably be a CRT made for it? If it was discussed and it's not in the profile then there's most likely a reason. I hate being the "it's not on the profile so it doesn't count" guy but this is a very mainstream character and the topic has a wholeass blog about it yet this form of sonic doesn't have it. So as it stands now he simply doesn't have the resistances.

it will since Sonic will have the willpower to not be hospitalized or paralised in fear, he will just push it

If Sonic could be unaffected by fear manipulation of any relevant degree he would have fear manip on his profile. He doesn't. So he doesn't resist it. And again, it only needs to stagger Sonic until Mujin uses his thought based hax.

Sonic just needs to think to use Chaos Control, and from there he can time stop or Seal park away

Which is pretty hard when you're mind will be screaming like this

And this at the same time

Seems like it would make thinking straight pretty hard lol

Sonic's willpower was able to make him still go while his body was falling apart due to Corruption that was affecting his mind and body, pretty sure pure fear is not enough to surpass that

Again, I'm not saying Sonic will faint here. But it's not like Sonic is just walking it off. He'll especially get jumoscared with an overwhelming sense of dread, fear, and awe the moment he sees Mujin and that should be way more than enough for Mujin to pull off any of his one shot hax. Especially the thought based ones.

and all Sonic needs is to think to use control and counter this

That's my point. They both need to simply think to use their abilities. Except Sonics mind is blasted apart by 2 different passives while Mujin can freely do whatever he wants.

Chaos Control is not an emerald power, those are specifics powers for different colored emeralds, look at his normal PnA section

His regular powers and abilities also don't list mind resistance for this key.

Again, I'm not a sonic fan, I'm not knowledgeable on sonic himself. But neither the blog explaining this nor Sonics actual profile list off any sort of mind manipulation resistance, so he simply does not have it.
If this was a case of a series with very little active supporters where it's very much possible nobody is available to fix up the profiles, I would be fine with just seeing some evidence for this, but this is THE SONIC.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Again, I'm not a sonic fan, I'm not knowledgeable on sonic himself. But neither the blog explaining this nor Sonics actual profile list off any sort of mind manipulation resistance, so he simply does not have it.
If this was a case of a series with very little active supporters where it's very much possible nobody is available to fix up the profiles, I would be fine with just seeing some evidence for this, but this is THE SONIC.

The emeralds grant these to the user, Sonic has the emeralds as standard equipment

Is what i think

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I could be wrong though

 

[DavidTPPM]

The emeralds grant these to the user, Sonic has the emeralds as standard equipment

Is what i think

I could be wrong though

I peeped his equipment section and not only do chaos emeralds not mention mind manipulation resistance, adventure era Sonic doesn't even have access to chaos emeralds even with optional equipment…

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I peeped his equipment section and not only do chaos emeralds not mention mind manipulation resistance, adventure era Sonic doesn't even have access to chaos emeralds even with optional equipment…

The chaos emeralds manipulates these;

Sonic is able to tank chaos energy from Shadow

 

[DavidTPPM]

This should pretty much solidify this as a stomp in Mujins favor. Turns out Sonic doesn't even have the main topic of discussion in this key.

So no mind manip resistance.

The chaos emeralds manipulates these;

Sonic is able to tank chaos energy from Shadow

Again, I can't verify or debunk that. So as long as it's not on his profile he simply does not have the resistance.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

This should pretty much solidify this as a stomp in Mujins favor. Turns out Sonic doesn't even have the main topic of discussion in this key.

So no mind manip resistance.

You are checking his optional equipment, Chaos emeralds are his Standard equipment

Again, I can't verify or debunk that. So as long as it's not on his profile he simply does not have the resistance.

Hm

 

[Theuser789]

He actually does not have it with emeralds as far as I can tell

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He did have in the past but it must’ve been erroneously removed.

The emeralds allowed Sonic to resist this in Runners.

Mind Control Ray

The Mind Control Ray is an object that appears in the Sonic the Hedgehog series. It is an artificial ray that can control minds. Invented by Dr. Eggman, the Mind Control Ray has been the axis of some the doctor's most noteworthy plots to take over the world. The Mind Control Ray is an artificial...

sonic.fandom.com

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also since Sonic has Optional equipment, That means he has magic hands

What stops Sonic (Besides fear hax) from making Mujin explode and be transported into a capsule

 

[DavidTPPM]

You are checking his optional equipment, Chaos emeralds are his Standard equipment

Oh yeah "chaos emeralds" are listed on his standard equipment but no resistances or hax are given to Sonic off of them. Meaning the abilities he's meant to have off of them are already in his profile which as we discussed does not have mind manipulation resistance.

Also my bad on the misunderstanding.

 

[omegabronic]

If Sonic could be unaffected by fear manipulation of any relevant degree he would have fear manip on his profile. He doesn't. So he doesn't resist it. And again, it only needs to stagger Sonic until Mujin uses his thought based hax.

when have i ever said he would resist it? He would feel fear, he would just not be paralised by it/not incapacitated by his fear due to his will power

Which is pretty hard when you're mind will be screaming like this

And this at the same time

Seems like it would make thinking straight pretty hard lol

it wouldn't at all, it would actually make him use faster:
"He's dangerous, Chaos Control" it would make him actvate faster in order to survive

Again, I'm not saying Sonic will faint here. But it's not like Sonic is just walking it off.

never said that he would, all he need is a single thought

He'll especially get jumoscared with an overwhelming sense of dread, fear, and awe the moment he sees Mujin and that should be way more than enough for Mujin to pull off any of his one shot hax. Especially the thought based ones.

and what stops Sonic from Chaos Controling immediatly after starting feeling fear?

That's my point. They both need to simply think to use their abilities. Except Sonics mind is blasted apart by 2 different passives while Mujin can freely do whatever he wants.

the only passive you talked so far is the fear one, which Sonic can simply respond by using Chaos Control, you have not shown anything that implies that Sonic wouldn't be able to think

His regular powers and abilities also don't list mind resistance for this key.

i was talking about Chaos Control, that wad the context of the reply you are replying

Again, I'm not a sonic fan, I'm not knowledgeable on sonic himself. But neither the blog explaining this nor Sonics actual profile list off any sort of mind manipulation resistance, so he simply does not have it.
If this was a case of a series with very little active supporters where it's very much possible nobody is available to fix up the profiles, I would be fine with just seeing some evidence for this, but this is THE SONIC.

The blog has evidence, it was just forgotten to be added, that can be fixed real quick, it wouldn't even require a CRT since it is accepted alresdy on Void's profile

 

[DavidTPPM]

He did have in the past but it must’ve been erroneously removed.

Again, I can't verify or debunk that. So as long as it's not on his profile he simply does not have the resistance.

Also since Sonic has Optional equipment, That means he has magic hands

What stops Sonic (Besides fear hax) from making Mujin explode and be transported into a capsule

Passive mind manipulation and the fact he kills him before sonic does anything would be the main reason. How do magic hands work exactly? Because Mujin also has regen (low or mid godly, i don't remember) as well as some other shenanigans making him hard to kill.

 

[omegabronic]

Also since Sonic has optimal equipment, he can just protect himself from ant damage park tries to deal with his rings

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Passive mind manipulation and the fact he kills him before sonic does anything would be the main reason. How do magic hands work exactly? Because Mujin also has regen (low or mid godly, i don't remember) as well as some other shenanigans making him hard to kill.

He basically just explodes and gets transported to a capsule incapable of doing anything

 

[omegabronic]

Passive mind manipulation and the fact he kills him before sonic does anything would be the main reason. How do magic hands work exactly? Because Mujin also has regen (low or mid godly, i don't remember) as well as some other shenanigans making him hard to kill.

His regen is only Mid, not godly, only Mid