(GRACE) Sonic VS Mujin Park

[XxZetsuxX]

Well, Since his mind resistence is valid and Sonic can still move with fear hax

I vote Sonic FRA due to Chaos Emeralds BFR/Time stop

 

[Theuser789]

Tails page has mindhax resistance with emeralds, even if Sonic's page doesn't:

Resistance to

Mind Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Biological Manipulation, and Transmutation (Powered directly by the Chaos Emeralds, which prevented Zavok's infection and cured Sonic of the Metal Virus the moment he transformed into Super Sonic.[58] The Metal Virus in question transforms organic tissue into a metallic substance through physical contact to create a mindless Zombot[59])

 

[DavidTPPM]

when have i ever said he would resist it? He would feel fear, he would just not be paralised by it/not incapacitated by his fear due to his will power

So he wouldn't be affected by it meaning you're saying he would resist it…?
And does sonic have any feats suggesting he can be completely unaffected by such intense fear despite not resisting it?

it wouldn't at all, it would actually make him use faster:
"He's dangerous, Chaos Control" it would make him actvate faster in order to survive

Literally the opposite … sonics mind would instinctively go "he's dangerous, he's dangerous, no, no, i don't like it, he's dangerous" out of panic, giving Mujin time to use his abilities.

never said that he would, all he need is a single thought

Already went over this like 5x, no need to repeat it again.

and what stops Sonic from Chaos Controling immediatly after starting feeling fear?

Idk man, maybe the overwhelming sense of dread, fear, and awe?

the only passive you talked so far is the fear one, which Sonic can simply respond by using Chaos Control, you have not shown anything that implies that Sonic wouldn't be able to think

First of all, no it's not.

One thing that should also be noted is that Mujin has not just passive fear manipulation but also mind manipulation in general. His presence makes you feel overwhelming awe that makes you want to bow to him and give to everything

While this looks similar to fear manip it's actually a separate ability as it's verbatim stated on screen that it's a different feeling from "fear" or "terror". That feeling being awe.
Which is yet another thing that should stop Sonic from killing Mujin before Mujin can hit him with his hax.

Second of all, I already went over why it would slow down Sonics thought based attacks in comparison to Mujins.

i was talking about Chaos Control, that wad the context of the reply you are replying

No, the context was mind resistance.

The blog has evidence, it was just forgotten to be added, that can be fixed real quick, it wouldn't even require a CRT since it is accepted alresdy on Void's profile

The linked blog lists what abilities and resistances adventure Sonic gets and mind manip resistance is not one of them. So sonic rn simply does not have it…

He basically just explodes and gets transported to a capsule incapable of doing anything

How does it activate?

His regen is only Mid, not godly, only Mid

Mujin has Satans abilities. Satan actually has Regeneration (Mid-Godly/Possibly High-Godly) so yeah, high godly regen.

Well, Since his mind resistence is valid and Sonic can still move with fear hax

I vote Sonic FRA due to Chaos Emeralds BFR/Time stop

No it's not valid for the same reason as before and Sonic moving with fear hax will take time to happen + doesn't matter since he dies before he gets the chance to do so

Tails page has mindhax resistance with emeralds, even if Sonic's page doesn't:

For one it doesn't matter since they're separate users not linked in the profiles. But most importantly, where are you even reading this? Adventure tails doesn't have mind hax resistance on his profile

 

[XxZetsuxX]

How does it activate?

Thought based i guess?

No it's not valid for the same reason as before and Sonic moving with fear hax will take time to happen + doesn't matter since he dies before he gets the chance to do so

Chaos energy uses mind manipulation and a ton of more abilities, Sonic resists this normally since he is capable of tanking Shadow using chaos energy

 

[TauanVictor]

I vote Sonic FRA due to Chaos Emeralds BFR/Time stop

Counted.

 

[Omegabronic]

So he wouldn't be affected by it meaning you're saying he would resist it…?

.....again, never said he wouldn't feel fear/resist having fear induced into him

And does sonic have any feats suggesting he can be completely unaffected by such intense fear despite not resisting it?

....his Supernatural willpower to never doubt or stop no matter how dire the situation is, from his perspective he has endured far worse than a super scary guy, besides i never said that he would be completely unnafected by it......no idea why you are getting this impression

Literally the opposite … sonics mind would instinctively go "he's dangerous, he's dangerous, no, no, i don't like it, he's dangerous" out of panic, giving Mujin time to use his abilities.

nope, in a fear situation it is only natural to try and save yourself, in Sonic's case, his willpower would make him deal with this fear a lot better than the avarage joe, if he can save himself by thinking and he is scared because he can feel how dangerous this guy is, then logically he will use his fastest way to save himself, specially with Sonic's 4x reaction speed to make him act faster than the other guy

Already went over this like 5x, no need to repeat it again.

Same i guess

Idk man, maybe the overwhelming sense of dread, fear, and awe?

sonic can deal with fear with his supernatural willpower as i have explained

First of all, no it's not.

As you keep saying, not in the profile, so not usable

Second of all, I already went over why it would slow down Sonics thought based attacks in comparison to Mujins.

And Sonic has 4x the reaction time advantage + i already went through the fear part

No, the context was mind resistance.

It wasn't tho

The linked blog lists what abilities and resistances adventure Sonic gets and mind manip resistance is not one of them. So sonic rn simply does not have it…

....as i said, simple mistake that doesn'e event need a crt since it is just part of the ability that he is resisting already in his profile

Mujin has Satans abilities. Satan actually has Regeneration (Mid-Godly/Possibly High-Godly) so yeah, high godly regen.

see the profile, it is only mid

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also this is pretty ratty but uuuh Sonics willpower (according to his profile) comes from his desire to protect those precious to him.

Same thing would apply to s2 Mori who could fight with a completely destroyed body and used suicidal moves to protect his loved ones.

And he was still shaking like a little baby when he got hit by fear from Byron

 

[Omegabronic]

Thought based i guess?

Chaos energy uses mind manipulation and a ton of more abilities, Sonic resists this normally since he is capable of tanking Shadow using chaos energy

Chaos energy on base shadow level doesn't do that passively with every attack

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Chaos energy on base shadow level doesn't do that passively with every attack

Then nvm, I take it back

 

[DavidTPPM]

Thought based i guess?

"magic hands" activate via thought? Can you, uhm, show me?

Chaos energy uses mind manipulation and a ton of more abilities, Sonic resists this normally since he is capable of tanking Shadow using chaos energy

Just because chaos energy can use mind manip doesn't necessarily mean any chaos attack has mind manip. Sonic doesn't have mind hax resistance. If you think he should make a CRT.

 

[Omegabronic]

Also this is pretty ratty but uuuh Sonics willpower (according to his profile) comes from his desire to protect those precious to him.

Same thing would apply to s2 Mori who could fight with a completely destroyed body and used suicidal moves to protect his loved ones.

And he was still shaking like a little baby when he got hit by fear from Byron

Them coming from the same place is not the same as them having the same level of willpower, again, Sonic faced far dire situations than a scary guy, dude continued even when his mind and body were deteriorating, it will take more than simple fear to stop him

 

[Theuser789]

But most importantly, where are you even reading this? Adventure tails doesn't have mind hax resistance on his profile

It's the super key, but the feat scales to regular emeralds, since Zavok could hold zombots with his bare hands with one emerald.

It doesn't matter if it's a different page when the feat is for the emeralds. You are just arguing semantics to dismiss the feat.

 

[DavidTPPM]

.....again, never said he wouldn't feel fear/resist having fear induced into him

So he's going to be stunned by it allowing Mujin to get the first attack in.

....his Supernatural willpower to never doubt or stop no matter how dire the situation is, from his perspective he has endured far worse than a super scary guy, besides i never said that he would be completely unnafected by it......no idea why you are getting this impression

Not according to his profile. And Mujin isn't just some scary guy. He directly affects your instincts with overwhelming sense of fear and dread.

nope, in a fear situation it is only natural to try and save yourself, in Sonic's case, his willpower would make him deal with this fear a lot better than the avarage joe, if he can save himself by thinking and he is scared because he can feel how dangerous this guy is, then logically he will use his fastest way to save himself, specially with Sonic's 4x reaction speed to make him act faster than the other guy

Brother Mori Jung literally blasted his own body with lightning bolts to the point where he was vomiting and destroying himself to the verge of death JUST AS TRAINING, yet he was completely stunned by fear manipulation. He's no average Joe .
And Sonics 4x reaction speed is cool, Mujin could react to a 250,000x difference in speed and adapt with reactive evolution so he's quite the fast thinker.

sonic can deal with fear with his supernatural willpower as i have explained

Sonics profile shows nothing even remotely near what he would need to deal with this level of fear… as I said, Mori could fight with spikes through his entire body and Jung actively demolished his body until he was vomiting to near death states and they were still affected enough to where they froze and started panicking.

As you keep saying, not in the profile, so not usable

Except Mujin DOES have mind manipulation on his profile .

And Sonic has 4x the reaction time advantage + i already went through the fear part

Mujin could react to a 250,000x amped Satan despite being on par with base Satan so I think he'll be fine

....as i said, simple mistake that doesn'e event need a crt since it is just part of the ability that he is resisting already in his profile

A simple mistake of completely leaving it out in both the blog and the profile? Then open a thread to fix it. That's up to staff and supporters to decide in a revision thread.

see the profile, it is only mid

Bottom of Mujins profile says

Likely all of Satan's powers

Satans profile has mid godly, likely high godly.

Them coming from the same place is not the same as them having the same level of willpower, again, Sonic faced far dire situations than a scary guy, dude continued even when his mind and body were deteriorating, it will take more than simple fear to stop him

Then show me. Mori Jin had both his hands penetrated by 2 massive spikes each, a giant spike through his stomach, got beaten up by Jegal, still went on to use an ability 4x beyond his body's limit, and still froze and was shaking from fear.
Jung was capable of actively committing suicide for training and was still overwhelmed by the fear.

Bro Satan had his arms erased, his concept ripped out, a giant hole through his chest, knees slit, and was still fighting.

And Mujin still had him crying on his knees from just his presence.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It's the super key, but the feat scales to regular emeralds, since Zavok could hold zombots with his bare hands with one emerald.

It doesn't matter if it's a different page when the feat is for the emeralds. You are just arguing semantics to dismiss the feat.

Scales to regular emeralds?

And it's not semantics if you can't actually prove it gives him the same resistances when he's absorbed them to go super and when he just has them in his possession, not even holding them in his hands.

For example, Madara and Naruto both had Kurama. But Madara could only control it outside of his body while Naruto controls it from inside which gives him like 10 abilities that Madara doesn't get.
For example Naruto got genjutsu (mind manipulation) resistance thanks to Kurama being inside of him while Madara didn't get any genjutsu resistance from Kurama.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Scales to regular emeralds?

And it's not semantics if you can't actually prove it gives him the same resistances when he's absorbed them to go super and when he just has them in his possession, not even holding them in his hands.

For example, Madara and Naruto both had Kurama. But Madara could only control it outside of his body while Naruto controls it from inside which gives him like 10 abilities that Madara doesn't get.
For example Naruto got genjutsu (mind manipulation) resistance thanks to Kurama being inside of him while Madara didn't get any genjutsu resistance from Kurama.

Sonic absorbs the emeralds iirc

Sonic fighters, The characters who are in possetion of the emeralds have the emeralds resistences

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sonic absorbs the emeralds iirc

Idk. I mean on one hand it's not like he has pockets to store them, but he does have a hammerspace.

Sonic fighters, The characters who are in possetion of the emeralds have the emeralds resistences

Adventure Sonic does not have any emerald based resistances on his profile from what I'm reading

 

[Omegabronic]

So he's going to be stunned by it allowing Mujin to get the first attack in.

....he is going to feel fear, but the way he will react to said fear will make him not be paralised by it due to his willpower

Not according to his profile.

Literally in the scans for it

And Mujin isn't just some scary guy. He directly affects your instincts with overwhelming sense of fear and dread.

Aka from his perspective he is just a very scary guy

Brother Mori Jung literally blasted his own body with lightning bolts to the point where he was vomiting and destroying himself to the verge of death JUST AS TRAINING, yet he was completely stunned by fear manipulation. He's no average Joe .

And Sonic was in a state where he couldn't feel his own body nor remember who he was, as i said, far more dire situations

And Sonics 4x reaction speed is cool, Mujin could react to a 250,000x difference in speed and adapt with reactive evolution so he's quite the fast thinker.

Not in the profile for reaction speed in the speed section, and Sonic thinking is not gonna trigger reactive evolution

Sonics profile shows nothing even remotely near what he would need to deal with this level of fear… as I said, Mori could fight with spikes through his entire body and Jung actively demolished his body until he was vomiting to near death states and they were still affected enough to where they froze and started panicking.

yes he did, in a worse situation actually

Except Mujin DOES have mind manipulation on his profile .

exept it isn't passive at all and he needs to talk to use it

Mujin could react to a 250,000x amped Satan despite being on par with base Satan so I think he'll be fine

not in the profile

A simple mistake of completely leaving it out in both the blog and the profile? Then open a thread to fix it. That's up to staff and supporters to decide in a revision thread.

Not like it matters much for this thread anyway

Bottom of Mujins profile says

Satans profile has mid godly, likely high godly.

And yet his own profile only had mid regen?

Then show me. Mori Jin had both his hands penetrated by 2 massive spikes each, a giant spike through his stomach, got beaten up by Jegal, still went on to use an ability 4x beyond his body's limit, and still froze and was shaking from fear.
Jung was capable of actively committing suicide for training and was still overwhelmed by the fear.

Also if you want me to show you mine, then you should also show me yours don't you think?

Bro Satan had his arms erased, his concept ripped out, a giant hole through his chest, knees slit, and was still fighting.

And Mujin still had him crying on his knees from just his presence.

yeah?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Idk. I mean on one hand it's not like he has pockets to store them, but he does have a hammerspace.

They kinda absorb it, Like when Sonic goes super but without actually going super

Adventure Sonic does not have any emerald based resistances on his profile from what I'm reading

He doesn't need to have it if the chaos energy page explains everything

 

[DavidTPPM]

....he is going to feel fear, but the way he will react to said fear will make him not be paralised by it due to his willpower

Already went over why that's bologna.

Literally in the scans for it

No? All the scans do is mention how he didn't give up despite detoriaring body to protect his friends. Not only does that not apply to this scenario but it's nowhere near enough to handle literally crippling fear .

Aka from his perspective he is just a very scary guy

Calling him "just a scary guy" is like calling someone with mind control "just a very convincing guy" but sure.

And Sonic was in a state where he couldn't feel his own body nor remember who he was, as i said, far more dire situations

How is amnesia while being numb more dire than ANYTHING I just mentioned ? Like be fr.

What requires more willpower? Having amnesia and feeling numb OR fighting while having 2 huge spikes through both of your arms, a massive spike through your stomach, using a suicidal self destructing attack that causes so much pain most people die from it, then using the same suicide attack 4 times stronger?

Not in the profile for reaction speed in the speed section, and Sonic thinking is not gonna trigger reactive evolution

Things that are missing from Mujins profile are missing because, unlike a mainstream series such as Sonic, GoH has almost no supporters.
And both Mujin and Satan (who's abilities Mujin has) have reactive evolution and analytical prediction on their profile. And Satan simply tapping his forehead was enough for RE to kick in.

yes he did, in a worse situation actually

Okay bro show me Sonic shrugging off crippling fear.

exept it isn't passive at all and he needs to talk to use it

Because Mujin has 2 different types of mind manipulation. One passive where anyone who sees him feels overwhelming awe making them worship Mujin and give everything up (Dean scan) and one where he can command people to do what he wants them to. Passive one incaps Sonic while the thought based one makes him commit suicide.

Not like it matters much for this thread anyway

Yes that's why it should be in the profile.

And yet his own profile only had mid regen?

Idk what are you questioning. You're trying to rat it not being in the profile despite it literally being in the profile.
Mujin has mid regen on his profile because he only had mid regen when he fought Satan. He absorbed Satans core element at the end of the fight which is what gave him all of his abilities.

Idk what are you trying to achieve by spamming about this. He literally does have it on his profile.

There is actually no way you just compared amnesia and numbness to this

Like actually be fr.

Also if you want me to show you mine, then you should also show me yours don't you think?
yeah?

What exactly do you want to see more?

They kinda absorb it, Like when Sonic goes super but without actually going super

Well that's a pretty important aspect so but knowing for sure makes a big difference.

He doesn't need to have it if the chaos energy page explains everything

He DOES need to because he doesn't have chaos energy resistance on his profile. All his resists is Shadows attacks and you already admitted that doesn't have mind manipulation hax…

Chaos energy uses mind manipulation and a ton of more abilities, Sonic resists this normally since he is capable of tanking Shadow using chaos energy

Chaos energy on base shadow level doesn't do that passively with every attack

Then nvm, I take it back

So as it is right now Sonic doesn't have mind hax resistance.

 

[Theuser789]

Scales to regular emeralds?

Yes.

Again, it feels like you're arguing semantics to dismiss abilities you don't like.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yes.

I questioned the scaling because we're talking about hax not stats. How does one big dude throwing a bunch of little dudes give SONIC resistance to mind hax?

Again, it feels like you're arguing semantics to dismiss abilities you don't like.

No I'm arguing the lack of evidence for resistances Sonic outright DOESN'T HAVE ON HIS PROFILE.

Yk what this actually feels like? Like you're trying to give Sonic resistances he doesn't actually have.

Craziest thing is that it's not even like sonic has a very blatant feat of resisting mind manipulation that got forgotten. You're literally arguing adventure Sonic has mind hax resistance because adventure Tails has mid hax resistance even tho he doesn't, and the reason for Tails having it is a different key has it. Like come on

 

[Theuser789]

How does one big dude throwing a bunch of little dudes give SONIC resistance to mind hax?

Because those little dudes are the "zombots", who are the reason the chaos emeralds resist mindhax. When you touch a zombot, you become one. Unless you are using Chaos Energy like Zavok.

You're literally arguing adventure Sonic has mind hax resistance because adventure Tails has mid hax resistance even tho he doesn't, and the reason for Tails having it is a different key has it. Like come on

I am arguing the Chaos Emeralds give that resistance, and I showed proof to prove that. Don't claim motivation or try to poison the well when you clearly don't know anything about Sonic.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Because those little dudes are the "zombots", who are the reason the chaos emeralds resist mindhax. When you touch a zombot, you become one. Unless you are using Chaos Energy like Zavok.

Just from the scan shown:

1. He's actively covering his fist in energy, that's not resisting passive mind hax that instantaneous.
2. That's not necessarily mind hax resistance if his hand is covered as he's not actually touching them. It's more like wearing a glove.
3. That could also just be transfiguration.
4. Prove Sonic can even do that (not that it matters anyway because passives are instant and the awe is passive) faster than Mujin can speak.

Don't claim motivation or try to poison the well when you clearly don't know anything about Sonic.

Bro that's literally what you did what are you talking about ???? "Don't claim motivation" when I was literally replying to you saying this:

Again, it feels like you're arguing semantics to dismiss abilities you don't like.

That's crazy ngl. Also yes I don't know almost anything about Sonic, THAT'S WHAT THE PROFILES ARE FOR. That's why him not having it on his profile is such a massive factor.

I am arguing the Chaos Emeralds give that resistance, and I showed proof to prove that.

No you didn't. Even if I were to give you the zombot shenanigans it still wouldn't be passive resistance so it would be useless.

 

[Theuser789]

All this thread is showing me is that we've got to make the Sonic page super clear so that people won't nitpick how abilities work because of the wording on the profile not being exactly what you want. Sigh.

1. He's actively covering his fist in energy, that's not resisting passive mind hax that instantaneous.
2. That's not necessarily mind hax resistance if his hand is covered as he's not actually touching them. It's more like wearing a glove.
3. That could also just be transfiguration.
4. Prove Sonic can even do that (not that it matters anyway because passives are instant and the awe is passive) faster than Mujin can speak.

Zavok is using Chaos Energy to coast his fist, energy that comes from the emeralds. Sonic can use the emeralds far better than Zavok so he can easily replace this feat. In fact in the Sonic Channel story Sonic could resist his memory being erased because he was holding onto an emerald.

• Memory Manipulation (5-D. Having a Chaos Emerald prevented Sonic and Tails from being altered by an incident Eggman caused, which unknowingly warped reality and their history at large[97][Note 1])

Once the Chaos Energy blog is made every ability should be in one place so that nitpicks like these don't happen again.

 

[DavidTPPM]

All this thread is showing me is that we've got to make the Sonic page super clear so that people won't nitpick how abilities work because of the wording on the profile not being exactly what you want. Sigh.

All this thread shows in reality is that you have to put Sonics resistances in the section specifically designed for resistances. This isn't nitpicking this is Sonic literally not having a major resistance AT ALL in this key.

Zavok is using Chaos Energy to coast his fist, energy that comes from the emeralds. Sonic can use the emeralds far better than Zavok so he can easily replace this feat. In fact in the Sonic Channel story Sonic could resist his memory being erased because he was holding onto an emerald.

I would ask you to prove that but it doesn't matter. It's not passive so it's not countering passive mind hax.

Once the Chaos Energy blog is made every ability should be in one place so that nitpicks like these don't happen again.

Memory manipulation resistance ≠ mind manipulation resistance. And again, it's not nitpicking so chill out with that. It's annoying

 

[Epsilon_R]

If Sonic's hax got deleted by accident, can we fix it so people can't argue semantics?

 

[DavidTPPM]

If Sonic's hax got deleted by accident, can we fix it so people can't argue semantics?

His supernatural willpower was already readded so this isn't about accidentally deleted abilities.

Of course if there's a CRT where mind manip resistance for adventure era Sonic was accepted please do show me

 

[Theuser789]

This is about deleted abilities. My first post in this thread was posting a feat where Sonic resisted a mindhax beam of energy because he was holding onto a Chaos Emerald, which for some reason was removed from the pages.

 

[Omegabronic]

Already went over why that's bologna.

And i already went why it isn't

No? All the scans do is mention how he didn't give up despite detoriaring body to protect his friends. Not only does that not apply to this scenario but it's nowhere near enough to handle literally crippling fear .

And also that he doesn't give up no matter the dire situations to do so........you are arguing semantics at this point, why he is determined is not relevant for the topic, the willpower itself is however

Calling him "just a scary guy" is like calling someone with mind control "just a very convincing guy" but sure.

i guess you didn't read when i said "from his perspective" but ok, your perspective on fear matters as much as the feeling of fear itself

How is amnesia while being numb more dire than ANYTHING I just mentioned ? Like be fr.

"Amnesia while feeling numb"

I.....are you fr? To dismiss your whole memory being screwed to the point you don't rememver anything, and not feel your own body in anyway, to he easy things in comparison to simple physical damage? This type of thing is far more scary and dire on psycological level dude

What requires more willpower? Having amnesia and feeling numb OR fighting while having 2 huge spikes through both of your arms, a massive spike through your stomach, using a suicidal self destructing attack that causes so much pain most people die from it, then using the same suicide attack 4 times stronger?

the former, your oversimplifications won't really cut to undermine the feat because you don't like it

Things that are missing from Mujins profile are missing because, unlike a mainstream series such as Sonic, GoH has almost no supporters.

......so you are doing a double standard then, requiring something from Sonic supporters while not doing so foe GoH supporters?............come on dude

And both Mujin and Satan (who's abilities Mujin has) have reactive evolution and analytical prediction on their profile. And Satan simply tapping his forehead was enough for RE to kick in.

Cool, Sonic thinking once will still not activate it

Okay bro show me Sonic shrugging off crippling fear.

I did, he was crippled in more ways that just fear as well to add

Because Mujin has 2 different types of mind manipulation. One passive where anyone who sees him feels overwhelming awe making them worship Mujin and give everything up (Dean scan) and one where he can command people to do what he wants them to. Passive one incaps Sonic while the thought based one makes him commit suicide.

and the passive one is not in the profile at all........if you are going to make demands for something of someone, theb you must also follow said demands yourself, just as you keeps insisting on "not in the profile so not valid" then you also must not use things not on the profile by your own logic, else said logic is worthless

Yes that's why it should be in the profile.

.......user is already on thar front with you

Idk what are you questioning. You're trying to rat it not being in the profile despite it literally being in the profile.

......look at the regen section, what does it say?

Mujin has mid regen on his profile because he only had mid regen when he fought Satan. He absorbed Satans core element at the end of the fight which is what gave him all of his abilities.

.......and mid godly is not there because of that because? You can't complain, you been questioning accepted stuff to us as well

There is actually no way you just compared amnesia and numbness to this

Like actually be fr.

repeating yourself won't help you know

What exactly do you want to see more?

......proof of the passives being in the profile, as you demands of us, while they aren't in said profile right now, if you want to consider them, then you also must stop demanding it of us

 

[DavidTPPM]

This is about deleted abilities. My first post in this thread was posting a feat where Sonic resisted a mindhax beam of energy because he was holding onto a Chaos Emerald, which for some reason was removed from the pages.

You mentioned Sonic surviving mindhax beam. You didn't show how nor did you prove that it's adventure era Sonic. The hax needs to be passive to matter and the robo dude one you've shown is not passive.

 

[DavidTPPM]

And also that he doesn't give up no matter the dire situations to do so......

Literally does not say in his profile. Also only says when protecting his precious ones so yeah.

you are arguing semantics at this point, why he is determined is not relevant for the topic, the willpower itself is however

Not really. His profile literally says protecting his precious ones is his drive. That's not even remotely semantics. Like that's straight up an IRL thing.

"Amnesia while feeling numb"

I.....are you fr? To dismiss your whole memory being screwed to the point you don't rememver anything, and not feel your own body in anyway, to he easy things in comparison to simple physical damage? This type of thing is far more scary and dire on psycological level dude

Yes that's called amnesia and real life humans go through it as well. That barely even qualifies for above average willpower …

the former, your oversimplifications won't really cut to undermine the feat because you don't like it

It's not oversimplification, not remembering anything is literally basic amnesia dude. That BARELY even qualifies for above average willpower by itself.
Hmm I don't know, what takes more willpower? Not remembering anything? Or having hot arms erased, your knees cut out, your entire chest blown out, and having your concept removed? Reeeally difficult question. At this point I'm expecting you to say "Sonic will walk off crippling fear because he once stubbed his toe but acted like nothing happened due to sheer willpower".

......so you are doing a double standard then, requiring something from Sonic supporters while not doing so foe GoH supporters?............come on dude

Not a double standard. I already explained this. If a character with dozens of active fans doesn't have an ability in his profile it's most likely because he simply does not have it in general. If a character with 5 active fans doesn't have an ability on his profile it's very likely there was just nobody to add it.

And I outright said that I would be fine if someone showed a feat of Sonic blatantly resisting mind manipulation but nobody can even remotely bring that. Every attempt at an argument for his mind hax resistance has been so indirect and complicated that I would be stupid to just accept it without an actual CRT confirming it.

I did, he was crippled in more ways that just fear as well to add

He literally says he can still move. He wasn't crippled at all. It's so hilarious how Sonic actually just had a basic amnesia and you're trying to push it as some insane unbelievable feat of willpower that will make him completely unaffected by the effects of crippling fear.

and the passive one is not in the profile at all........

It doesn't need to be lol. Like if Sasuke has fire manipulation on his profile he doesn't need to have all 20 fire style jutsus in there as well. He has mind manipulation. Specifics don't need to be there.

if you are going to make demands for something of someone, theb you must also follow said demands yourself, just as you keeps insisting on "not in the profile so not valid" then you also must not use things not on the profile by your own logic, else said logic is worthless

Mujins mind manipulation is in his profile. It doesn't need to specify how it works because a single panel can explain that to anyone unfamiliar with the verse.
Sonics mind hax resistance is missing entirely. And nobody here can explain why Sonic should have mind hax resistance. As I said MANY times before, if you could show me AE Sonic just blatantly obviously resisting mind hax I wouldn't care. But since any arguments for that are complete gibberish to people unfamiliar with Sonic, it's simply just not acceptable and needs to be accepted in a CRT.

It's not like I'm telling you to open a CRT for fire manipulation after you sent me a scan of Sonic shooting fire from his hands. I'm telling you to open a CRT which you can't demonstrate in an understandable way.

......look at the regen section, what does it say?


.......and mid godly is not there because of that because? You can't complain, you been questioning accepted stuff to us as well

Satans regen section says mid to high godly. Mujins profile says he likely has all of Satans abilities.

The reason why Mujin doesn't outright have Satans abilities listed out on his profile in their entirety is that they are listed as "likely". Likely abilities can be restricted in vs threads. This means Mujin could lose mid-high godly regen due to rules restricting his "Likely all of Satans abilities", but this way he still has his own mid regen. So even if his likely abilities are restricted he still keeps that.

And I haven't been questioning accepted stuff. The accepted stuff yall showed outright didn't give Sonic mind hax resistance.

repeating yourself won't help you know

I'm just making sure your huge argument against fear manipulation so strong it can knock people unconscious is Sonic having amnesia because that's actually just really funny. Like your arguments for why Sonic doesn't just instantly lose are:

1. Sonic has resistance that's not listed on his profile and that you can't understandably prove he has
2. Sonic will be unaffected by the effects of crippling fear because he once had amnesia

Whats next? Sonic resists infinitely layered existence erasure because he once cut himself with a piece of paper and it didn't erase him?

.....proof of the passives being in the profile, as you demands of us, while they aren't in said profile right now, if you want to consider them, then you also must stop demanding it of us

It doesn't need to be there when mind manipulation is already listed on it.
That's like saying Sonics BFR isn't stated to be thought based on his profile so it's not. You're comparing a very basic ability being in the profile but not fully described with an ability completely missing and the reasoning you have for Sonic supposedly having it being complete gibberish to anyone unfamiliar with sonic

 

[DavidTPPM]

This is getting too long to reply. Either show Sonic directly resisting mind manip, or he simply doesn't have it (as his profile indicates).

If the reasoning is some complex bs that can't be understood without being familiar with the series then open a CRT as it would need to be verified by admins and supporters.

 

[Theuser789]

You mentioned Sonic surviving mindhax beam. You didn't show how nor did you prove that it's adventure era Sonic. The hax needs to be passive to matter and the robo dude one you've shown is not passive.

It was the emeralds. We keep telling you it's the emeralds. The emeralds are the same no matter the era. This is what I was talking about when refering to you being nitpicky.

And yes, it is passive. Sonic resisted the beam by just holding them.

 

[Omegabronic]

Literally does not say in his profile. Also only says when protecting his precious ones so yeah.

.....stop with the semantics please, the clip shows what i said with a very clear example

Not really. His profile literally says protecting his precious ones is his drive. That's not even remotely semantics. Like that's straight up an IRL thing.

as i said, the reason he is determined doesn't matter for the strength of the willpower itself, you repeating the same phrase from before will not make what i said not true

Yes that's called amnesia and real life humans go through it as well.
That barely even qualifies for above average willpower

oh so losing all of your memory but still being able to fight on and continue to your objective as normal with nothing but willpower, even when you can't remember what it was, not event he people you are doing it for, and not even yourself, is "barely above average willpower"......hu huh, sure, i dunno what kind of real life you have been living in

It's not oversimplification, not remembering anything is literally basic amnesia dude. That BARELY even qualifies for above average willpower by itself.

.....you clearly didn't saw the clips right? he didn't only lost all his memory, he persisted fighting and completing all the challenges of islands, all while still going to complete his objective to save his friends, all while not remembering them or what he wants to do, all with sheer will power moving him, if you find that normal irl, i will say, prove it, because factually it ISN'T a normal irl thing at all

Hmm I don't know, what takes more willpower? Not remembering anything? Or having hot arms erased, your knees cut out, your entire chest blown out, and having your concept removed? Reeeally difficult question. At this point I'm expecting you to say "Sonic will walk off crippling fear because he once stubbed his toe but acted like nothing happened due to sheer willpower".

.......if you are going to be this bratty, and straight up refuse to not oversimplify the feats shown to you simply because you don't like, then stop talking to me, clearly you will make us go nowhere

Not a double standard. I already explained this. If a character with dozens of active fans doesn't have an ability in his profile it's most likely because he simply does not have it in general. If a character with 5 active fans doesn't have an ability on his profile it's very likely there was just nobody to add it.

nope, on this wiki all are equal under the rules, if you insist on treating it like this for Sonic, then i will treat it like this for GoH

your argument "it isn't on the profile, so he doesn't have it" is applicable to both if you want to use it, double standards with extra steps are STILL double standards

And I outright said that I would be fine if someone showed a feat of Sonic blatantly resisting mind manipulation but nobody can even remotely bring that. Every attempt at an argument for his mind hax resistance has been so indirect and complicated that I would be stupid to just accept it without an actual CRT confirming it.

and you have been given, but you don't want to accept it, straight forward even, even accepted in a profile

He literally says he can still move. He wasn't crippled at all.

......if you think that being unable to feel your own body at all and being mind ****** is not being crippled then......wow dude

It's so hilarious how Sonic actually just had a basic amnesia and you're trying to push it as some insane unbelievable feat of willpower that will make him completely unaffected by the effects of crippling fear.

again with adding things to my mouth, stop lying, he will feel fear, but he has been under mental stress far worst than a simple fear that you are describing, but of course, you will probably refuse to acknowledge it and try to dismiss it

It doesn't need to be lol.

yes it does, at least by your own admission and position about Sonic's stuff, yeah it needs

Like if Sasuke has fire manipulation on his profile he doesn't need to have all 20 fire style jutsus in there as well. He has mind manipulation. Specifics don't need to be there.

if the fire manipulation has a different applications, then it needs, specially since the one int he profile is completely different from he one you are describing

Mujins mind manipulation is in his profile. It doesn't need to specify how it works because a single panel can explain that to anyone unfamiliar with the verse.

the panel in the profile only shows voice commands,

Sonics mind hax resistance is missing entirely. And nobody here can explain why Sonic should have mind hax resistance. As I said MANY times before, if you could show me AE Sonic just blatantly obviously resisting mind hax I wouldn't care. But since any arguments for that are complete gibberish to people unfamiliar with Sonic, it's simply just not acceptable and needs to be accepted in a CRT.

i will not bite to your double standards, the situation is the same for Sonic, the feats you have been given are clear cut, you just don't want to accept it, again, if you want to continue with double standards, then simply stop talking

It's not like I'm telling you to open a CRT for fire manipulation after you sent me a scan of Sonic shooting fire from his hands. I'm telling you to open a CRT which you can't demonstrate in an understandable way.

it is the exactly this actually......

Satans regen section says mid to high godly. Mujins profile says he likely has all of Satans abilities.

The reason why Mujin doesn't outright have Satans abilities listed out on his profile in their entirety is that they are listed as "likely". Likely abilities can be restricted in vs threads. This means Mujin could lose mid-high godly regen due to rules restricting his "Likely all of Satans abilities", but this way he still has his own mid regen. So even if his likely abilities are restricted he still keeps that.

yet he doesn't have "likely mid godly regen" listed because?

And I haven't been questioning accepted stuff. The accepted stuff yall showed outright didn't give Sonic mind hax resistance.

it does, blatantly does, as the passives from Void has these haxes, and Sonic is accepted as resisting his passives, just stop and accept the same situation already

I'm just making sure your huge argument against fear manipulation so strong it can knock people unconscious is Sonic having amnesia because that's actually just really funny.

just as funny as you oversimplifying the feat to just amnesia and ignoring his actions he does while suffering from it......also ignoring his body not being feeled of course

Like your arguments for why Sonic doesn't just instantly lose are:

1. Sonic has resistance that's not listed on his profile and that you can't understandably prove he has

exept that we understandably did prove he has it

2. Sonic will be unaffected by the effects of crippling fear because he once had amnesia

oversimplyfication again eh? what else to expect from you at this point

Whats next? Sonic resists infinitely layered existence erasure because he once cut himself with a piece of paper and it didn't erase him?

how cute of you

It doesn't need to be there when mind manipulation is already listed on it.

it does when the aplication you are arguing isn't there at all and is completely different from the one listed in the profile.........which is the same thing you have doing for Sonic this entire thread, funny how things that prejudict the oposite side do not apply to you under the same situation eh?

That's like saying Sonics BFR isn't stated to be thought based on his profile so it's not. You're comparing a very basic ability being in the profile but not fully described with an ability completely missing and the reasoning you have for Sonic supposedly having it being complete gibberish to anyone unfamiliar with sonic

difference being that.....you are arguing that his pressence alone makes people worship him.....even tho the profile only ever says that he can command people with his voice...........lol at "complete gibberish", it is as "clear cut" as anything else you showed.....but of course, since it is against the char you support, you won't listen and will do a double standard of it

 

[Omegabronic]

anyway, i vote Sonic FRA, i think my sentiment over the match were already pretty clear

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic FRA. This has been one of the most frustating versus threads tbh.

 

[Eseseso]

Well, Since his mind resistence is valid and Sonic can still move with fear hax

I vote Sonic FRA due to Chaos Emeralds BFR/Time stop

Sonic FRA

 

[TauanVictor]

anyway, i vote Sonic FRA, i think my sentiment over the match were already pretty clear

Sonic FRA. This has been one of the most frustating versus threads tbh.

Sonic FRA

Counted.

 

[Lenyo456]

Sonic FRA

 

[DavidTPPM]

And yes, it is passive. Sonic resisted the beam by just holding them.

That's literally super sonic not base sonic and it defended him by absorbing the beam, it didn't make him resist the mind control itself. That's basic energy absorption oft super sonic, not mind hax resistance .

Mujin doesn't shoot beams or any sort of energy to mind control lmao. So no this isn't mind hax resistance