Monkey D. Luffy() vs Kurosaki Ichigo(7) vs Uzamaki Naruto(2) inc(1)

[Yoh_Asakura8]

he trained when he was 6 or so until 17 and from 17 to 19

 

[Kadmus_Prime]

I know what it means but that's like conquers haki when they dominate the will, used against fodderz. aizen used it on orihime's friend and she was barely standing, everyone else past out.

has anyone read david and goliath? the situation is similar to that. and because you guys like to bring up aizen so much, plz tell me what he did beside overpower him? ichigo isn't rocking swordsmen ship on par with zoro or sasuke.

While it does function the same, it's still fundamentally different. KC Haki is the domination of will by said will but quite simply it's just a fodder clean up as it can only be used on weak-willed opponents or a pass to tame animals. Other effects like shockwaves and etc only comes when two users of this haki clash.

Spirit Pressure (Reiatsu) does the same but is much more versatile and (arguably) more powerful its effects aren't easily overcome unless you have enough Reiryoku. While it doesn't really knock out said person it can instill fear, induce paralysis/stun or even cause people to feel phantom pain. To the extreme (with high enough Reiryoku), it can destroy objects or living beings weaker than the person just by being exerted (as demonstrated by Aizen)

So in all honesty, while I'm reading this I'm just trying to sort how Luffy/Naruto are gonna get through Ichigo's spiritual pressure. Unless verse equalization is in play here then Naruto might arguably be able to pull through the initial pressure but I honestly don't see Luffy pulling through at all. This is just my thoughts.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

koolio. we haven't seen the full extent of conquers. oda showed reyleigh used it in a way where he completely got rid of an explosion. i don't agree when you said luffy falls to it but not Naruto even tho conquers haki is similar and to have conquers, you can't be kneeling to anyone. this is why no marines have it. conquers does destroy objects as we've seen with shanks. luffy did it while clashing his aura with kata.

 

[Rocker1189]

All we have seen spiritual pressure do is kill norma humans and then it did not even kill Ichigo's friends when he was right next to them. I really really doubt spiritual pressure comes in play when other beings of comparable power fight shinigami. Also in naruto chakra is also composed of a person's spiritual energy and Naruto has huge amounts of chakra.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

New Star wars show YAY!!!

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It's just the normal exaggeration of spiritual pressure in relation to just about anyone or anything that's not from Bleach. Examples of reiatsu crush doing jack to comparable opponents? Significantly weaker characters are stunned, paralyzed, destroyed, and feel fear because when a person much more superior to them flexes his reiatsu, they feel the considerable gulf in strength between them, or they simply die if it's too excessive as shown with Aizen. The fact is that reiatsu crush has always, and will always only work on weaker characters. It's similar to what Haoshoku Haki has currently shown us in that aspect.

Not that it's some kind of special hax, like people somehow treat it to be. And the effects of reiatsu crush exists in many other verses, where people feel fear or overwhelming pressure, get paralysed, lose the will to fight, etc in the presence of someone vastly superior to them. Reiatsu crush is simply overestimated everywhere.

 

[Mindovin]

Orochimaru and his group shit themselves when Tobirama barely use his chakra and Hashirama did against Tobirama.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Other effects like shockwaves and etc only comes when two users of this haki clash.

Huh, that's actually true. Never really thought about it.

 

[Kadmus_Prime]

I say Luffy falls to it because he's still very much a normal human. I don't think anything physical would help against the lethal effects of Reiatsu but I can see him resisting the other effects to an extent due to will but not enough to subvert it that much since he is just a normal human altogether with rubber capabilities. I gave Naruto leeway because chakra can be likened to spiritual energy in a way that might offer some mitigation but they're still in the same boat as One Piece.

I'm talking about post-time skip Aizen. Pre-Timeskip could only vaporize normal humans. And I see it comes into play when the other party does not have comparable Spiritual Energy or lack thereof.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

haki isn't spiritual? how you know luffy isn't super human?

 

[Kadmus_Prime]

haki isn't spiritual? how you know luffy isn't super human?

Not really. Armament Haki is described as using one's spirit/life force as invisible armor and to the extent a full on the black coating. But that doesn't give a legit enough reason to resist overwhelming spiritual energy. The other's are just basic in the way they are KC Haki is dominating the will of others by exerting the person's own will. Continued release can affect physical objects like you said with Shanks Mantra is essentially sixth sense that can grow into limited precog.

Well obviously Luffy is superhuman, no doubt about that, what I meant was that anything related to the spiritual side is in the range of normal or even above average but doesn't compare to powerful shinigamis. But that's just due to One Piece main focus is physical rather than spiritual.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

no argument against that.

and when i say superhuman, i don't mean a human with powers btw. in op, superhumans like luffy, zoro, sanji, usopp & kata don't get sick and live almost 2 timess longer than an actual human. also like when kata was born he stood up and sat in a chair. idk if you got me wrong on that just saying. again, no argument against that.

 

[TheDarkSide857]

Do you seriously know who the hell Ichigo is?

There is virtually no difference between Mach 3995 and Mach 3000. Ichigo is not going to be overwhelming nothing, and he's not going to be dodging attacks easily. That is not even up to a 2x difference. Luffy is currently unquantifiably above Mach 1500. That means Ichigo's almost 3x faster than him. Still not enough to blitz or significantly outpace, and Luffy still has Snakeman.

There is no "massive speed disadvantage" unless you downplay Ichigo's feats. But in a regular battle, we'll say Naruto and Snakeman Luffy take speed and Ichigo takes strength and durability, just to make an example. Who wins?

Well, for Luffy and Naruto, it'd be like punching an Optimus Prime, if the Optimus Prime were Ichigo's true Shikai swords. They're only going to shatter their own wrists. Think of it like this: guy 1 hits guy 2 a trillion times in a second, but all guy 2 feels is equivalent of snowflakes landing on him. Then, guy 2 finally gets in a hit after those trillion hits, and guy 1 feels like a train just hit him. Who wins? Well, because guy 1 cannot do anything to harm guy 2, guy 2 will easily kill guy 1.

Speed isn't everything.

Naruto has significant AoE with his attacks, and the fact that Ichigo is superior to both has to be taken into account. For all we know, Naruto and Luffy could team up to get rid of the most troublesome one first. It's only logical. If you add the fact that Naruto's very close to Ichigo in speed, and Naruto has a diverse way to create distractions with shadow clones - they are not simply there to be destroyed, seriously -, both of them will end up tagging Ichigo.

Wrong. Neither Naruto nor Luffy know who Ichigo is or how powerful he is.

Why the mention of the likes of Robert and the other Sternritter that are barely into MHS+ and are greatly inferior to Ichigo in the first place? Both Luffy and Naruto are faster than them. They're irrelevant, and Bazz-B even got behind Ichigo at one point.

Well, all that proves is that Luffy and Naruto are not faster than Ichigo since Robert and the other Sternritters are greatly inferior to Ichigo.

Ichigo doesn't have control over Blut Vene. It only activated once, and it never ever happened again.

Wrong. If Blut Vene wasn't activated again, then it wouldn't exist. Without that stuff, Ichigo still stomps his enemies to oblivion. He beat Azien(someone superior to Luffy and Naruto) to a pulp without any issues.

Naruto cannot only "launch a TBB", and essentially be helpless. Yeah, his individual attacks are weaker than both of the other combatants here, but a barrage would certainly work. Base Naruto's barrage destroyed Madara's Country level Wood Release, and his other barrage in Sage Mode damaged 50% Kurama, who's Small Country level. Rasenshuriken harmed the High 6-A Juubi. And that's not mentioning any of the other ways shadow clones can be useful. I'm not going to continue because I believe Ichigo wins this as well.

Ichigo has literally defeated someone who is on par with Yhwach... Have you ever heard of Sosuke Aizen? Have you seen where Ichigo is physically superior to a guy who casually lifted the Vandenreich, which is as big as a continent? Have you seen where Ichigo defeats a dude who is literally superior to his true Zanpakutō which had been suppressed all this time and was only unlocked through Ichigo coming to terms with his heritage and powers? Ulquiorra is basically an Arrancar (originally Vasto Lorde-class Hollow)... Byakuya is superior to Post-Auswählen Gerard whose Vollständig second form was stated by Tōshirō that his Vollständig first form didn't even hold a candle to this one, and his second form was dealt the final blow to by Byakuya... Tsukishima is a Fullbringer and a former member of Xcution... all these are guys Ichigo has defeated. What would Naruto do? Some of that's above things like Obito, which was Large Island level with the power of the Bijuu and yet still doesn't surpass some of those guys. And guess what? This isn't even the strongest Ichigo.

Ichigo only wins due to the fact that he stomped Aizen who's > 8 teratons, while being casual as ****. To be frank, if all combatants were at the same level here or comparable to each other, I'd go with Ichigo having the least amount of chance of winning because his abilities are plain inferior. No offense, he's one of my favorites and I even like him more than Luffy.

No, his feats are at least comparable to Luffy and Naruto's, or superior.

As for Ichigo being one of your favorites.




That means that you hate Ichigo.

Also, I find it funny how you try to use an actual argument for Naruto and Luffy, yet bullshit Ichigo, showing you actually do understand VS Debating, you just want to downplay Ichigo.

You, sir, deserve 2 medals. 1 for being a dumbass and 2 if you lose the first one.

 

[KazuiK]

Unnecessary insult.


Ichigo was never superior to Yhwach physically.


BFF presented argument according to the facts, no one here is underestimating ichigo.


Nobody here votes through favoritism.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"You, sir, deserve 2 medals. 1 for being a dumbass and 2 if you lose the first one."

I swear, I've seen this insult before... If so, that means you were the person reported for unnecessary, insulting behavior for that before, and a second offense isn't gonna look good.

 

[Soste_To_Perivalon]

I'm just posting to get notifications from this thread. I'll vote later.

 

[Kadmus_Prime]

Where was it stated that Sosuke Aizen is on par with Ywach? And no need for insults

 

[TheDarkSide857]

Unnecessary insult. Ichigo was never superior to Yhwach physically.

Oh really? "Was stated to have reclaimed the power he used to defeat Aizen by Yhwach and physically held back Yhwach who had his Almighty activated. Also knocked back Yhwach with a Getsuga Tensho"

Where was it stated that Sosuke Aizen is on par with Ywach?

"Casually reacted to the Mimihagi stream, kept up with Yhwach in their fight"

There. There's your proof.

 

[KazuiK]

That GT did not even hurt much yhwach, Yhwach was not paying attention to ichigo, he was surprised by the presence of mimihagi.

 

[TheDarkSide857]

That GT did not even hurt much yhwach, Yhwach was not paying attention to ichigo, he was surprised by the presence of mimihagi.

How can someone like Yhwach ignore someone who attacked him with a Getsuga Tensho?

Also, Yhwach, due to his telepathy, would know where Mimihagi is.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

ichigo isn't winning any lower than extreme diff. we go by the vs battle wiki and it says country lvl 8 tera or above same with dura and mach 3995 speed scaled from ichibei. speed equalised considering that there's no major difference in speed. he's not 10 times faster. I've already listed a lot of things Naruto and luffy have over him. ichigo hasn't fought anyone haxed without some something idefk. he's immune to aizens illusions, only defeated ywatch because uryuu. luffy and Naruto are more versatile, creative, have higher endurance/stamina and have abilities like precog and future sight while ichigo only have blute vein which i'm not sure he ever utilised in character. ichigo would fall for naruto's clones. luffy would know which clone is real with his keen instincts alone. bazz b got behind ichigo and caught him off guard easily. ichigo sword skills aren't that honed like the others in his verse, Naruto and luffy have both faced skilled swordsmen that can dish out compressed energy/shockwaves. ichigo relies on overpowering his opponents more. small country attack can hurt someone with a country lvl dura. not like ichigo is getting beat by 2-3 small country lvl attacks. Naruto and luffy experienced fighting those much stronger than them and kept their cool while ichigo gave up. as I said, the fight will be drawn out and be at extreme diff. some of your arguments were kinda forced.

again, have your read david and goliath? :^]

but anyway, ichigo won. idm keep going on because I do enjoy a good argument. :^P

 

[Kadmus_Prime]

I'm confused. You're saying that Ichigo is superior to Aizen (which of course he is) who is on par with Ywach. And the Ywach you're comparing Aizen to is Soul King Absorbed Ywach? The one who took them both on with ease. If I'm understanding correctly. But he didn't keep up in their fight. It was heavily one-sided, he fought Ywach to give Ichigo a striking chance which failed. I would hardly call that fight being on par. And how does reacting to Mimihagi stream makes him on par?

Note: The only time Aizen fought Ywach was after he absorbed the soul king but if you meant before he absorbed the soul king then ignore this.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

btw, it's true shikai ichigo. :^]

 

[KazuiK]

That GT did not even hurt much yhwach, Yhwach was not paying attention to ichigo, he was surprised by the presence of mimihagi.

How can someone like Yhwach ignore someone who attacked him with a Getsuga Tensho?
Also, Yhwach, due to his telepathy, would know where Mimihagi is.

I mean that.

Yhwach did not see him coming. Mihihagi resisted the Almighty of yhwach.

 

[KazuiK]

I disagree with you about ichigo being a weak swordsman and about him not keeping calm on some occasions. Ichigo swapped swords with Aizen, Gin, Ulquiorra who are more skillful swordsmen than many captains. Ichigo kept his cool against Ulquiorra, even though he knew he was at a disadvantage, got a quick grasp of Ginny's bankai ability, I believe his only weakness is his mind, as Gin joked with his mind but he resisted a few times, eg in his fight against ginjo and against yhwach. After his training at the palace, he became more calm and intelligent.

 

[TheDarkSide857]

he's immune to aizens illusions, only defeated ywatch because uryuu. luffy and Naruto are more versatile, creative, have higher endurance/stamina and have abilities like precog and future sight while ichigo only have blute vein which i'm not sure he ever utilised in character. ichigo would fall for naruto's clones. luffy would know which clone is real with his keen instincts alone. bazz b got behind ichigo and caught him off guard easily.

Seriously? You say that Ichigo would fall for Naruto's clones, yet you say that Ichigo's immune to Aizen's illusions. You basically contradicted yourself by saying that. And Bazz-B is still Massively Hypersonic+ and so is Ichigo.

ichigo sword skills aren't that honed like the others in his verse, Naruto and luffy have both faced skilled swordsmen that can dish out compressed energy/shockwaves. ichigo relies on overpowering his opponents more. small country attack can hurt someone with a country lvl dura. not like ichigo is getting beat by 2-3 small country lvl attacks. Naruto and luffy experienced fighting those much stronger than them and kept their cool while ichigo gave up. as I said, the fight will be drawn out and be at extreme diff. some of your arguments were kinda forced.

Since when does: making much weaker and lamer impressions of the Star Saber from Transformers count as a Small Country level attack. And besides, attacks from a person a tier below you do not hurt you, much less kill you. And before you mention Thanos blasting back Galactus with one shot, sure, he might have done that, but then Galactus proceeded to wreck Thanos's shit very quickly afterwards using only roughly two attacks to do so. Thanos only survived the fight by talking his way out of it. Not by battling Galactus. Also, what do you mean, they kept their cool? And Ichigo has done many of those things before. If he plays smart, then he eliminates Luffy first and secures the win due to Luffy being the weakest and lamest of the three. Ichigo is almost 3x faster than Luffy so he gets to him and then slices him from head to foot.

again, have your read david and goliath? :^]

Yes, I have.

but anyway, ichigo won. idm keep going on because I do enjoy a good argument. :^P

I agree that Ichigo wins, though.

 

[TheDarkSide857]

That GT did not even hurt much yhwach, Yhwach was not paying attention to ichigo, he was surprised by the presence of mimihagi.

How can someone like Yhwach ignore someone who attacked him with a Getsuga Tensho?
Also, Yhwach, due to his telepathy, would know where Mimihagi is.

I mean that.
Yhwach did not see him coming. Mihihagi resisted the Almighty of yhwach.

Whatever. Due to his telepathy skills he would instantly know where Mihihagi is and was only caught off guard by Ichigo holding his guard up.

 

[HST_Master]

To add on to whay Kazui said during his bankai training he increasingly managed to make each fake zangetsu he grabbed last longer through skill, note that all of them were actually extremely fragile

And TBH the only fight he ever gave up was Yhwach, any other time he would continuously keep trying (Byakyua,Ulquiorra,The Asauchi) even Naruto went through the same when Neji died and he noticed a lot of ninja were dead

He's fought people who use CQC with Grimmjow and even shows he's skilled in Hakuda and Zanjutsu to the point he can fight Byakyua without getting finessed by his Shunpo Techniques

And again Ichigo is not 8 Tera, he stomped someone who was above 8 Tera

 

[TheDarkSide857]

To add on to whay Kazui said during his bankai training he increasingly managed to make each fake zangetsu he grabbed last longer through skill, note that all of them were actually extremely fragile
And TBH the only fight he ever gave up was Yhwach, any other time he would continuously keep trying (Byakyua,Ulquiorra,The Asauchi) even Naruto went through the same when Neji died and he noticed a lot of ninja were dead

He's fought people who use CQC with Grimmjow and even shows he's skilled in Hakuda and Zanjutsu to the point he can fight Byakyua without getting finessed by his Shunpo Techniques

And again Ichigo is not 8 Tera, he stomped someone who was above 8 Tera

Thanks, Hst master.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

kazuik- sorry. I was talking about luffy and Naruto being calm against stronger opponents. ichigo giving up was back at that aizen arc. true he underwent development. yes, he fought against skilled swordsmen but is was more so just him overpowering without skill and relying on speed and power most of the time.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

thedark- "Seriously? You say that Ichigo would fall for Naruto's clones, yet you say that Ichigo's immune to Aizen's illusions. You basically contradicted yourself by saying that"

clones are illusions now?


thedark- "And besides, attacks from a person a tier below you do not hurt you, much less kill you."


they're not a tier below, they're still 6B but low. luffy 6b 7-8 tera with g4 strongest attacks.


thedark- And before you mention Thanos blasting back Galactus with one shot, sure, he might have done that, but then Galactus proceeded to wreck Thanos's shit very quickly afterwards using only roughly two attacks to do so. Thanos only survived the fight by talking his way out of it. Not by battling Galactus.

this is a dc thread now?

thedark- Also, what do you mean, they kept their cool? And Ichigo has done many of those things before. If he plays smart, then he eliminates Luffy first and secures the win due to Luffy being the weakest and lamest of the three. Ichigo is almost 3x faster than Luffy so he gets to him and then slices him from head to foot.

have fun rushing in with killing intent like that. can't just rush in to someone who could see several seconds into the future. luffy's base is scaled to doffy's mach 1500 feat. g2 makes him faster and boundman increased his speed to where he blitzed doffy from 100 meters away(possibly more). snake man makes him much faster than bound man. ichigo is mach 3995 scaled from ichibei. how's ichigo gonna handle snakeman? if luffy uses black mamba he'll think that he dodged but he'll end up getting hit from behind and take 1000+ country lvl punches if he's not carefull. a rasenshurinken ***** cells. luffy can avoid things without being conscious, his body can shift itself on it's own. they're all even as it is.:^/

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Naruto was calm against 3 gods

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

I gave up on this thread its a shitstorm with no more logic

 

[fandom_1cheapskate]

as expected of a 3 way free for all I would recommend either change it to a 2v1 or just agree that it is inconclusive. otherwise this remains a who gets knocked out first; and with how much effort; and can they win vs the remaining fighter.

as it stands unless by time I post this and minds were changed: Inconclusive 1. Naruto 2. Luffy sad pandaman. And Ichigo 7

lemme know if that's correct

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

oh yes. ichigo has won this thread as I've stated many times. I did in fact say that they can continue discussing or unfollow. :^]

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

i'm most likely gonna start a 6A Naruto vs 6A ichigo later on today.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

^ I suggest that these not be added to any of the parties profiles

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

fine :^]

 

[TheDarkSide857]

clones are illusions now?

Well, technically, Naruto's clones are. It's scientifically impossible to make clones except for maybe plants.

they're not a tier below, they're still 6B but low. luffy 6b 7-8 tera with g4 strongest attacks.

No, you said that attacks much weaker than a person can harm said person which is not true.

this is a dc thread now?

No. And the characters I mentioned were in Marvel. Not DC.

have fun rushing in with killing intent like that. can't just rush in to someone who could see several seconds into the future. luffy's base is scaled to doffy's mach 1500 feat. g2 makes him faster and boundman increased his speed to where he blitzed doffy from 100 meters away(possibly more). snake man makes him much faster than bound man. ichigo is mach 3995 scaled from ichibei. how's ichigo gonna handle snakeman? if luffy uses black mamba he'll think that he dodged but he'll end up getting hit from behind and take 1000+ country lvl punches if he's not carefull. a rasenshurinken ***** cells. luffy can avoid things without being conscious, his body can shift itself on it's own. they're all even as it is.:^/

One question: How does Luffy shift his body to avoid sword strikes that are almost 3x faster than him? And they would happen before Luffy turns into Boundman or Snakeman.

 

[Yoh_Asakura8]

1. whet deh ****?

2. it can harm ichigo, but not by that much. ichigo has speed but it doesn't mean anything when there's not much of a difference since they are not far in speed & have precog + much ore versitail. Naruto's tbb crossed counries in seconds and can easily surprise icigo with it or a rasenshurinken. and btw, Naruto is small country +

3. lel :^]

4. I explained that already. his body moves on it's own and he's also has precog & I've said time and time again, speed is equalised due to haki and no mojar speed difference? doffy is mach 1500 scaled from base luffy. base luffy was tagging doffy, g2 makes him faster g4 boundman blitzed him and send him from the palace crashing down to the city. because it was so fast, doffy stated that he doesn't even know how he got there. g4 luffy blitzed doffy who is mach 1500 from 100meteres + and snake make is even more faster than bound man. luffy's haki can see several seconds into the future. again, Naruto and luffy are more versatile and creative. ichigo is raw strength and speed.