Minamoto no Raikou vs Charon

[Mr. Bambu]

I won't speak on the legitimacy of the 9-D stuff, mixed feelings myself, but you're aware a smurf doesn't share a tier with their hax, aye? That is what being a smurf means.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Wait a second, 9-D?

Charon vs Dante confirmed?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

1. If I were to one day make an in-verse match between god-tiers of D&D, would you mind helping me? Because you seem to be the most knowledgeable on the topic

I can help you with that, but then again, god tiers matches for D&D can be resolved very easily. Just look at who has the higher stats on average and GG! ovo

 

[FallenMaou2234]

It would only be his memory manipulation and nothing else really.

Changing really won't matter much since Charon has at will powers that allow him to teleport things to the River.

Ah I see, And servants do resist BFR so...

I won't speak on the legitimacy of the 9-D stuff, mixed feelings myself, but you're aware a smurf doesn't share a tier with their hax, aye? That is what being a smurf means.

Well there are cases of Tiers being given cause of Hax though so I was just like wondering

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ah I see, And servants do resist BFR so...

Charon's teleportation works 4D level and has better scaled layers in terms of overcoming resistances. So her resisting it is questionable and if she fails she gets dropped into a river that heavily favors Charon.

Like Bambu said, eventually he's going to get a hit in, he has a massively swath of passives that she'll eventually fail against and she cannot overcome his immortality.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aye. I think with the new info of his immortality from the scans on his page does render this a stomp. If she has some means of incap then maybe just a win for Charon, but I'm not seein' it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I can help you with that, but then again, god tiers matches for D&D can be resolved very easily. Just look at who has the higher stats on average and GG! ovo

Higher divine rank trumps everything else, aye.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Higher divine rank trumps everything else, aye.

As Hera knows when Zeus keeps negating her precog to cheat.

 

[Peppersalt43]

As Hera knows when Zeus keeps negating her precog to cheat.

Woah wait, IRL lore accurate Zeus?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Woah wait, IRL lore accurate Zeus?

They are all pretty accurate yeah, if adapted to the setting slightly.

Though I can contest certain statblocks, but that's me being nerdy as hecc

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So in this case Charon's regen technically short enough to reach the victory time limit.

If we get really technicals just one second after the 24 hours without him fighting do to be down will fulfill that since it would technically be over a day, so in that case she would win.

Also, she actually have a way to permanently put him down, which would be if she use her divine powers as Gozu Tenno (avatar of Indra) since that make her haxs tier 1, which should include the High Godly and Immo (Type 8, don't know if also 9 or that is only for Astarte) negation of gods, however Berserker Raikou is really reluctant to use her divine powers (to the point that she even preferred to not use them and die in her battle against Suzuka when she used her divine powers) so outside of specific cases she normally don't use them, don't know if in face of a enemy who revive eternally she would use them.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Also, she actually have a way to permanently put him down, which would be if she use her divine powers as Gozu Tenno (avatar of Indra) since that make her haxs tier 1, which should include the High Godly and Immo (Type 8, don't know if also 9 or that is only for Astarte) negation of gods, however Berserker Raikou is really reluctant to use her divine powers (to the point that she even preferred to not use them and die in her battle against Suzuka when she used her divine powers) so outside of specific cases she normally don't use them, don't know if in face of a enemy who revive eternally she would use them.

Or I can just bloodlust her

 

[Harith0cell]

Curious what ap for both?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Curious what ap for both?

I don't think AP plays a role here

 

[Harith0cell]

I don't think AP plays a role here

It for future match I gonna make, I just want know what both ap are.

 

[Peppersalt43]

It for future match I gonna make, I just want know what both ap are.

This one's for Charon

D&D Calc: Elemental Princes and Terrain Effects

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't know for Raikou

 

[Harith0cell]

Thanks.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Or I can just bloodlust her

Rider of Kalasutra Hell is naturally bloodlusted do to her curse and thus is in her Gozu Tenno state.

Curious what ap for both?

AP don't really matter there but just in case. Berserker Raikou upscale from 26.6 Gigatons on base and she upscale even more with her passive amp against mystical beings plus her mana burst which a big amp in verse, Rider of Kalasutra Hell upscale from 79.9 Gigatons in base plus her amps, with their NP they become High 6-C and with the final blow of the NP they reach 2.9 Teratons.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

That mean change Base Raikou to her 2nd key and we are good to go
Well, guess Dioscuri vs Raikou can still work with the existence of Raikou 2nd key lel

 

[Peppersalt43]

That mean change Base Raikou to her 2nd key and we are good to go
Well, guess Dioscuri vs Raikou can still work with the existence of Raikou 2nd key lel

Uh, what changes?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Charon's teleportation works 4D level and has better scaled layers in terms of overcoming resistances. So her resisting it is questionable and if she fails she gets dropped into a river that heavily favors Charon.

Servant can resist Medea's BFR which works on 4D level and has layered resistances

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Uh, what changes?

Rider of Kalasutra Hell is naturally bloodlusted do to her curse and thus is in her Gozu Tenno state.

Basically thats her 2nd key

 

[Qawsedf234]

Servant can resist Medea's BFR which works on 4D level and has layered resistances

I explained why that doesn't mean anything. Charon's teleportation works on the same scale and he has a similarly large if not large scaling chain of overcoming resistances. Her negating one of his Gate or Wish spells is just unlikely, which moves the fight to Styx which eventually just results in a loss for Berserker.

Or I can just bloodlust her

A bloodlusted Charon can just replicate the Far Realm displacement spell with Wish. A BFR move that works on the 1-A scale that obliterates whoever it hits by moving them into the Far Realm and she wouldn't have the BFR resistance to do so or the Madness Resistance to withstand it.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

A bloodlusted Charon can just replicate the Far Realm displacement spell with Wish. A BFR move that works on the 1-A scale that obliterates whoever it hits by moving them into the Far Realm and she wouldn't have the BFR resistance to do so or the Madness Resistance to withstand it.

I think he mean only bloodlusted Raikou here

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I explained why that doesn't mean anything. Charon's teleportation works on the same scale and he has a similarly large if not large scaling chain of overcoming resistances. Her negating one of his Gate or Wish spells is just unlikely, which moves the fight to Styx which eventually just results in a loss for Berserker.

Servant still resist tho. 4D BFR is just "at least," which literally could be higher because it doesn't say how high Medea throws someone beyond the 3-dimensional plane.

Furthermore, Medea is a mage from the Age of God whose Magecraft reaches the realm of the gods and is able to access the Authority of the gods. Authority is considered to be 6D to 8D smurf hax on this site.

So technically a Servant was able to resist Medea's BFR which is 6D/8D smurf hax.

 

[Qawsedf234]

4D BFR is just "at least," which literally could be higher because it doesn't say how high Medea throws someone beyond the 3-dimensional plane.

So you can't just assume it works on a higher scale when it isn't stated as such.

So technically a Servant was able to resist Medea's BFR which is 6D/8D smurf hax

From the look of it that's based on an unverified idea. The dialogue mentions taking someone beyond the third dimension. But nothing about taking them to the 8th dimension and back.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

So you can't just assume it works on a higher scale when it isn't stated as such.


From the look of it that's based on an unverified idea. The dialogue mentions taking someone beyond the third dimension. But nothing about taking them to the 8th dimension and back.

Magecraft from Age of Gods has 6D/8D potency, i have explained that magecraft from AoG allows people to directly access authority of the gods which is 6D/8D hax

“Just to be clear, Heartless wants to bring back the Age of the Gods by summoning Iskandar as a Divine Spirit? I know how strange mages can be, but this is just too hard to believe.” Seigen said.

“The magecraft from the Age of the Gods allows people to directly access the authority of Divine Spirits. And since Divine Spirits are close to the Root, mages won’t have to search for the Root anymore.” My mentor explained.

-Case File vol 10

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

@TrueKingOfHeroes there is also the BFR of Gate of Sky that send someone to the Land of Shadows, which if I'm not wrong is 6D-8D plane no?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

@TrueKingOfHeroes there is also the BFR of Gate of Sky that send someone to the Land of Shadows, which if I'm not wrong is 6D-8D plane no?

I don't think that Land of Shadows is simply 6D-8D just because it's outside of the world. Although there are only 3 places mentioned out of the world so far, namely the Root, Throne of Heroes and Land of Shadows IIRC, with two of the three being higher dimensional planes

 

[Qawsedf234]

Magecraft from Age of Gods has 6D/8D potency

It channels energy from higher dimensions, but that doesn't mean everything using it is automatically that dimensional level. The scans used for teleportation on feature 4D claims and doesn't have much else to imply they teleport someone through the 8th dimension and back.

But even if it did spells like Gate works by just connecting two points of reality no matter the distance or location. Charon could just use gate and access the river even without directly teleporting there. As an ability Charon can also just spawn vials of Styx that has the River's memory wiping effects.

Overall even if the fight doesn't occur near the River that doesn't actually impact Charon's ability to use the river by that much.

If both are bloodlusted then the fight probably just ends with Berserker being warped into the Far Realm.

But I guess if her second key is used and she defaults to some High Godly attack she might be able to win. Though at that point it's mostly just stacking the Deck in her favor.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

It channels energy from higher dimensions, but that doesn't mean everything using it is automatically that dimensional level. The scans used for teleportation on feature 4D claims and doesn't have much else to imply they teleport someone through the 8th dimension and back.

It does not channel energy from higher dimensions, it can directly access the authority that is the power of the gods, which can also affect other gods, who are higher dimensional beings and are close to the root. Authority is the power to do whatever the user wants in their domain, Medea with her magecraft can access the authority of the gods, thus having the same potential as them.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, right now we just need to wait for Pepper to change Base Raikou to her 2nd key (Rider of Kalasutra Hell) and we can continue the debate again

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yeah, right now we just need to wait for Pepper to change Base Raikou to her 2nd key (Rider of Kalasutra Hell) and we can continue the debate again

Just debate as if it's changed. I don't have my laptop right now

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You can still edit in mobile tho

 

[Peppersalt43]

You can still edit in mobile tho

Done

 

[Qawsedf234]

Both characters have prior knowledge

Well with prior knowledge and a second key Charon should know that basically he has no win condition other than using Wish to replicate a spell like this that shunts Berserker to the Far Realm. So either he does that and wins or I guess he can eventually get outhaxed. Overall since wish is an at 1/Day power for Charon it'll be difficult to avoid, especially since it automatically draws in the target.

So either she dies to this or Charon gets blasted.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well with prior knowledge

Should I remove that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Should I remove that?

At that point with the other changes its just a stomp thread then.

 

[Peppersalt43]

At that point with the other changes its just a stomp thread then.

Ah, OK. I'll keep it

So... Incon?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Its not an incon. The power will kill her or she'll kill him. What matters is if she can resist the BFR or not and I'm not sure she actually can. But if she can she just wins.