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Making Saint Seiya Great Again part 3!

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TheUnshakableOne

TheUnshakableOne

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ÔÇïÔÇïJust want to establish that no one will be 2-A on this thread lol. Simply that it might be possible for the 2-C ratings for the gods to be way stronger than what they are currently at.

Anyways, breaking this up into sections.

1.) The Saints

2.) The Mariners

3.) Athena and Poseidon

4.) The New Scaling Chain, and what should be scaled. Along with Attack potency changes.

1.) The Saints



Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees: DragonEmperor23 (With passive resistance to sound, and air manipulation????); Diinou HotHead (Resistance to Air, and sound manipulation should be just Air Manipulation)




Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Milly Rocking Bandit (Type 5 Immortality only); Diinou HotHead

Disagrees: DragonEmperor23 (Transduality); Diinou HotHead (Transduality)


Pegasus Seiya - Instinctive Reaction (He Unconsciously sensed danger to Athena, and protected her )


Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead (Should apply to all Saints, or most);

ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïDisagrees:



Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees:



Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees:


Agrees:

Disagrees: DragonEmperor23 (A stamina feat); Diinou HotHead (Stamina feat)

All Saints - Pressure Points (The Star Life Points are pressure points on the human body ), Probability Manipulation (Through Miracles which grants them not only additional power, but allows them to do the impossible), and Statistics Amplification (Through Miracles they gain more power )


Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees:


----

2.) The Mariners


Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees: Diinou HotHead (Homing Attack);




Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees:


The other mariners aren't really that important, not really that haxed, and mostly need profile clean ups.


3.) Athena and Poseidon


Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees: Diinou HotHead (Spatial Manipulation should just be dimensional storage);



Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees:


  • All the Gods - Aura (The Gods can aura passively causes those around them to be fearful, and have others comply with their demands), Immortality , and Possession (Type 6 Immortality; Parasitic - The Gods can possess the body of others),
Agrees: DragonEmperor23; Diinou HotHead

Disagrees: ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇï


4.) The Scaling Chain, higher 2-C rating (but still 2-C), and Who else scales?


Athena (Saint Seiya)has equal strength to Poseidon (Saint Seiya). This statement goes back to the previous arc where we also get a statement from Gemini Saga saying that Athena, Hades, Zeus, and Poseidon are equal.

The 7 pillars that are supported by Poseidons divine will. Not even the strength of all 12 Gold Saints combined can break them. This is similar to what we have seen in Hades arc with the Wailing Wall, also known as the Wall of Lametation.

The Zodiac Exclamation is noted on Leo Regulus 's profile to be a High 3-A feat.

The Libra Weapons were used to destroy the 7 pillars individually. [1 ] [2] [3 ] [4 ] [5 ]
ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇï

The Mainstay that Poseidon supports through his will. Not even the combined power of Shiryu, Hyoga, and Seiya in Gold Cloth using their full power with Libra Weapons was enough to break it . It took a miracle which is stated to be a point where Humans Temporaryily surpass the Gods .


Athena was able to prevent Poseidon from spearing Seiya through some sort of Aura, or Telekentic paralysis.

Ikki stated that Poseidon's Intial Awakening was "Stronger than anything he felt before" notablely this should mark Poseidon above the Gold Saints. This could also be an indicator that Julian Solo (Not Poseido) is weaker than the Gold Saints.

After Poseidon regains control over himself after that headshot with an arrow. Seiya tells us that Poseidon is 100x stronger than what he was before . The Libra Shield was able to defend aganist an attack from that poseidon

Later we learn that Poseidon's Cosmo just keeps growing bigger

Later we learn agai that he was still growing stronger , and we then get the statement of "His Cosmo could almsot encompass the entire universe"

  • 1.) This is a statement about how large his cosmo is, and that doens't neccessaryily equate to an accurate Attack Potency tier. We get these statements a lot. They are similar to "I never felt a cosmo this large before"


  • 2.) If we don't accept as a metaphor but an actual legitmate feat. It should be High 3-A, or Low 2-C. We are talking about the ENTIRE Universe, and not 1 small spherical part of the universe.


  • 3.) He now has 2-C feats (Low Multiversal). the 7 pillars he was supporting through his divine will can be similarly compared to the worlds that Hades was supporting through his will. The difference is the structure itself. The combined strength of all 12 Gold Saints cannot destroy them (A high 3-A feat). The Libra weapons were able to destroy them. They should likely be a Low 2-C feat. The mainstay was able to be unharmed by Shiryu, Hyoga, and Seiya in their respective Gold Cloths with Libra Weapons. They also burned their cosmo to the limit, and the Mainstay that Poseidon was supporting through his will. Was still unharmed. It took a miracle, a power that can surpass the gods to breach it.
Full powered miracles could possibly be a higher tier of 2-C above Poseidon, and the other 2-C Gods.

Poseidon should be 2-C without any Universe (3-A) Key. He should be at least around 150+ above the baseline of 2-C, and he grows stronger the longer the battle continues.

Athena should at least be comparable to him. They fight countless holy wars together, and have multiple statements of being equals.

Libra Weapons should be High 3-A Likely Low 2-C. Maybe even just straight up Low 2-C..

Scaling chain for the Multi-solar system tier might look something like this. Anyone want to help me work out the scaling chain?

ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïMulti-Solar System Gold saints > The Bronze Saints with their 7th sense flared to maximum, with bronze cltohs turned Gold > The Mariners > Post Gold Saint arc (Untrained 7th sense) Bronze Saints

Weakest Gold Saint > Bronze Gone Gold Cloth Seiya and Co > Strongest Mariner >


Other Misc. Stuff.


Throwback to Aquarius Camus Ice Coffin. it was stated that not eve the combined might of several Gold Saints can break it.However, the Libra Weapons were needed to break it dow . This happened in the previous saga .

Throwback to another statement. Gemini Saga made a statement about how Athena competes with Zeus and fought holy wars with him before . The only reason she has power to compete is because of her sheild and staff apparently . This happened in the previous saga. We also get a statement in arc 3 of Athena and Poseidon being equals.

The Mariner's are missing resistance's. Besides resistance to Matter Manipulation , what other resistances should they have?


Inconclusion: (outside of the missing resistances, and abilities.)

No more 3-A key for the Athena , Hades , and Poseido . They should be 2-C (Far above baseline; around ~150+)

Libra Weapons should be High 3-A (Above Baseline as they would scale above the Zodiac Exclamatio ), or they can be Low 2-C ( Universe level + )

Miracles should be a Passive (with a random chance of proc'ing) Statistics Amplification, and Probability Manipulation that goes as far as 2-C power boost as their Max, for now, as it gives a power boost that allows a character to surpass Gods, and make the impossible suddenly possible.
ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇï

ÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇïÔÇï

Note: This is subject to edits, and changes.
 
I disagree with the resistances for Shun. He has to actively repel the attacks, he isn't naturally tanking their damage.

I disagree with BFR resistance and transduality for Ikki. For BFR, he didn't resist getting sent to the dimension (which is what BFR is, Battlefield Removal, the act of being sent somewhere else), he just found his way out of the dimension. This would probably be dimensional travel. For the transduality, it's probably actually Immortality type 5.

I disagree with Shaina's resistance to life manipulation. She didn't resist her cosmo being drained, she was just still healthy despite it. This is probably just a stamina feat.

I agree with the rest of the abilities. Not sure on the tiering stuff.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I disagree with the resistances for Shun. He has to actively repel the attacks, he isn't naturally tanking their damage.
I disagree with BFR resistance and transduality for Ikki. For BFR, he didn't resist getting sent to the dimension (which is what BFR is, Battlefield Removal, the act of being sent somewhere else), he just found his way out of the dimension. This would probably be dimensional travel. For the transduality, it's probably actually Immortality type 5.

I disagree with Shaina's resistance to life manipulation. She didn't resist her cosmo being drained, she was just still healthy despite it. This is probably just a stamina feat.

I agree with the rest of the abilities. Not sure on the tiering stuff.
Click to expand...
hmmm i thought one way to resist BFR was to find your way back?? btw i can't believe i didn't think of this until now, but wouldn't this be a speed feat? I might have to add that later.

Can't resistances also be active instead of passive??? I could add a note, or change the wording of it a bit

The Type 5 immortality is what i was origianlly thinking but Ikki has died and been sent to the underworld before and then come back. Ikki makes mentions of it a few times.

For Shaina it didn't kill her which was the goal of the attack. she got back up and protected Seiya, but i guess one could make an argument that Julian Solo didn't actually kill her because he saw her as a woman, and went easy on her. She then lied there to recopperate her energy.

I'll add the disagrees and agrees once some comments start rolling in

 
Libra weapons can be optional equipment can't they??

Added "Possibly Immortality Type 5"

I tried to change the wording on Shun's Resistance to Air, and Sound manipulation to sound more active rather than passive.
 
Okay, here's my opinions:

Shun's stuffs: Fine. As for the Air and Sound resistances, it looks more like outright manipulation than resistances.

Ikki's stuffs: Looks nice, except for maybe Transduality. Transduality needs you to transcend the concepts to qualify. And if this qualifies, I think most Type 5 Immortals are as well.

Instinctive Reaction: This should scale to all Saints too, right? It's more like a half dead person attempting to do something, and not an exclusive ability or anything.

Type 6 Gold Saints: Fine, I guess.

Shaina & Life Manip: Like some people already said, it looks more like a stamina feat than resistance.

Saints stuffs: All looked fine.

Sorrento stuffs: All but Homing attack looks fine. The reason the Sorrento's attack can't be avoided is because you can't block it (It reaches your mind) Not because it homes on you.

Krishna stuffs: All are fine to me.

Poseidon stuffs: Most are fine. But his Spatial Manip looks more like Dimensional Storage. Also, his paralysis and Life manip and stat reduction seems to scale to other gods as well, since I remember Shaina saying it's the power of the gods.

Athena & Gods stuffs: Seems fine.

As for the AP thing, I'll be getting to them later.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Okay, here's my opinions:

1.) Shun's stuffs: Fine. As for the Air and Sound resistances, it looks more like outright manipulation than resistances.

2.) Ikki's stuffs: Looks nice, except for maybe Transduality. Transduality needs you to transcend the concepts to qualify. And if this qualifies, I think most Type 5 Immortals are as well.

3.) Instinctive Reaction: This should scale to all Saints too, right? It's more like a half dead person attempting to do something, and not an exclusive ability or anything.

4.) Type 6 Gold Saints: Fine, I guess.

5.) Shaina & Life Manip: Like some people already said, it looks more like a stamina feat than resistance.

6.) Sorrento stuffs: All but Homing attack looks fine. The reason the Sorrento's attack can't be avoided is because you can't block it (It reaches your mind) Not because it homes on you.

7.) Poseidon stuffs: Most are fine. But his Spatial Manip looks more like Dimensional Storage. Also, his paralysis and Life manip and stat reduction seems to scale to other gods as well, since I remember Shaina saying it's the power of the gods.

As for the AP thing, I'll be getting to them later.
Click to expand...


  • 1.) May i ask what makes it seem that way? is it possible it can be both?

  • 3.) It should yeah, iirc it was episode Zero we see Aiolos running while unconscious to protect Athena. Also, in the Hades Saga we will talk about the 6th sense and what it should do.

  • 4.) Maybe Type 6 and Limited possession for all gold saints??

  • 5.) Why can't it be both? Cosmo being a life force energy, and its linked to their Endurance/Stamina isn't it? She didn't die to it, but it was someone whose many tiers stronger than her so she barely survived? It could also be PIS i guess, or Julian Solo not actually going to kill her.

  • 6.) hhhmm i see i got confused on if that quantifies as homing..

  • 7.) Dimensional storage sounds like a better fit imo. I think it would need a better justification to scale it to the other gods. Although, Hades has his own Statistic Reduction feats, and Life Manipulation. Does Athena have any feats of Manipulating Cosmo energy? What about any other gods? If a god can manipulate the power source of cosmo then they should definetly have it. Oh Zeus does for sure, in Next Dimension he was stated to be able to take all divinity, and power from Athena and make her basically human.

The AP stuff is probably poorly worded because i was in such a hurry to post this lol. I spent 12 hours typing this up and if you factor in the computer problems it took way longer

I'll edit the OP thingy in a little bit,i just woke up.
 
I added agrees and disagrees but they didn't edit the way i would like so it looks sloppy... i think i reached the limit of how neat it could look x D

i am such a rookie at this stuff x D

Anyways, do i have everyone in the right spots?
 
There is Hyoga Gaiden before the Poseidon Saga.

Hyoga faces the Blue Warriors the leader and the strongest among them Alexer resisted the absolute 0.[[1]] [[2]]


Kraken Isaak profile of the Taizen it is stated that Issak could generate the absolute 0, Hyoga was hit several times by the Aurora Borealis.[[3]]

Issak 0 absolute
 
That can be put as another Cold resistance feat for the 5 broken Saints.

I think the Blue Warriors don't have profiles yet. Are they relevant enough to get one though?

Isaac already has Absolute Zero on his profile, but this can be put as a supporting scan, but translation to english would be good too.
 
I was surprised when I read Issak's profile. manga / anime doesn't say anything to him that he has 0 absolute.

The blue warriors that could have a profile are Alexer, Unity and Seraphina. [[1]] [[2]] [[3]] [[4]]

Unity and Seraphina are from Lost canvas.

Taizen has translated into Spanish, Portuguese (BR) and French.

Unfortunately there is no english
 
Does Unity have any fighting moment other than when he was Seadragon?

And I don't remember Seraphina having much paneltimes except for when she was Poseidon's vessel, which is already in his profile.

Alexer might be profile worthy, but I don't remember much feats from him.
 
As for Taizen, most language would be fine (most preferably Japanese RAW), but have english captions with them so people will understand.
 
Since I had no answer in the other thread, I will do it here:

there is an error in the profile of Aiolia, in the entry Lightning Plasma it says that it reaches a billion punches per second when he expands the cosmos, but in the manga (in English, Spanish and Italian) reports by the saint's own statement that the blow reaches "only" the hundred million.
 
The word "million" "billion" can get tricky in japanese and there are instances of mistranslation, so using the japanese one for reference is the best idea.

Not that I know if the japanese one states there are billion punches.

I do remember Aeson saying he has the japanese RAWs for the original series, so asking him might be a good idea.
 
I can translate Portuguese (BR) and also Spanish.

have both the Brazilian version with the Spanish I can translate

to both the French not.

I understand a little of French due to similarity and have some knowledge due to the fact that I work with food and the basis of western gastronomy is French.
 
Spanish:Manipula el frío tan bien como Hyoga

Sus ataque de hielo son tan poderosos como los poderes del cero absoluto de Hyoga.

Portuguese(BR):Consegue manipular o frio tão bem quanto o Hyoga

Os seu golpes de gelo são tão poderosos quanto os poderes do zero absoluto do Hyoga

Both translations state the same.

Hyoga temperature and cold control = Issak On cold air and temperature manipulation Hyoga and Issak would be equivalent!

The Hyoga Difference has a superior DC and superior durability.


Issak 0 absolute 2


Issak 0 absolute 2.jpg br
 
Leonida85 said:
Since I had no answer in the other thread, I will do it here:
there is an error in the profile of Aiolia, in the entry Lightning Plasma it says that it reaches a billion punches per second when he expands the cosmos, but in the manga (in English, Spanish and Italian) reports by the saint's own statement that the blow reaches "only" the hundred million.
Click to expand...
This is not important to the topic.

The description of the attack is for Aiolia with all its power. Aiolia is described on the page as FTL, therefore, he could hit a billion times or more in a second when he attacks with all the power.

In addition, we must also add to the description that Lightning Plasma can defeat the immortals. Because Aiolia defeats a dryade like Hysmina without a divine object (like Hanzashi) and Odysseus says that Kaiser's Lightning Plasma (to the maximum) can defeat him. The attack has anti-immortality properties.

The main problem with the description of an attack is the description of Shaka's Rikudou Rinne, because it is not an illusion. This is an attack that affects the soul of the rival and forces him to reincarnate in one of the six worlds. Or the description of Garuda's Galactic Illusion that creates a dimension in each attack. But the revisions for the character attacks descriptions will be later.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
1.) The Saints

  • Andromeda Shun - Adaptation (His Chains were able to adapt during a fight to change their defensive style to protect Shun. For example, Spider Web, Casting Net, Sprial Duct , Snare , Great Capture , lastly aboomerang ), Damage Boost (When caught in the Nebula stream excessive movement causes it to grow stronger), Resistance to Sound Manipulation , and Air Manipulation (By using rotating his chains he can repel the air, and sound around him )
Click to expand...
Shun could also have resistance to Power Nullification or Statistics Reduction. Because he resists the curse of Dead End Symphony (an attack that reduce the power and speed of his opponents down to 1 / 100th of their original stat) and was able to defeat Sorrento with his Nebulan Storm.

TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Scaling chain for the Multi-solar system tier might look something like this. Anyone want to help me work out the scaling chain?

Multi-Solar System Gold saints > The Bronze Saints with their 7th sense flared to maximum, with bronze cltohs turned Gold > The Mariners > Post Gold Saint arc (Untrained 7th sense) Bronze Saints

Weakest Gold Saint > Bronze Gone Gold Cloth Seiya and Co > Strongest Mariner >
Click to expand...
The most powerful of the Marina Shōgun are probably Gold Saint level.

Isaac is more powerful than Camus, because he can reach absolute zero (described in the Taizen).

Sorrento can fight Aldebaran and resists Shun's most powerful attack that can kill a Gold Saint like Aphrodite.

Bronze Saint (7th sense flared to maximum, with bronze cloth turned Gold) > Marina Shōgun (stronger) > Gold Saint (weak) > Marina Shōgun (weak)
 
Rikudou Rinne and Galactic Illusion are not illusions.

Galactic Illusion: [[1]]

ÒÇÉÒé«ÒâúÒâ®Òé»ÒâåÒéúÒé½ÒéñÒâ¬ÒâÑÒâ╝Òé©ÒâºÒâ│ÒÇæ

Òé»Òâ¡Òé╣ÒüòÒüøÒüƒõ©íÞàòÒüïÒéëþò░µ¼íÕàâþ®║ÚûôÒéÆõ¢£ÒéèÕç║ÒüùÒÇüÒüØÒü«þ®║ÚûôÒüºÒü«Õ£ºÕèøÒü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªþø©µëïÒéÆÕÉ╣ÒüìÚúøÒü░ÒüùÒâÉÒâ®ÒâÉÒâ®Òü½ÒüùÒüªÒüùÒü¥ÒüåµüÉÒéìÒüùÒüäµèÇÒÇé

Rikudou Rinne:

O c├¡rculo da seis exist├¬ncias é um golpe estilo "roleta russa" pois ninguém sabe se vai parar no inferno, no mundo dos demônios, no mundo das feras, no mundo da chacinas, no mundo dos homens ou O para├¡so!

TRANSLATION:

The circle of six existences is a "Russian roulette" stroke because no one knows if it will end up in hell, in the world of demons, in the world of beasts, in the world of slaughter, in the world of men or Heaven!
Virgo Shaka declaração cosmo e tecnicas da alto nivel gringo fff


The circle of six existences=O círculo da seis existências=Rikudou Rinne
 
DrunkHC said:
I searched for the Taizen translated into Italian I did not find! Leonidas85 show the link down to Taizen !!!!!


I went to check on French Taizen and it's: Milliard = Billion https://nsm01.casimages.com/img/2008/08/09/080809032814371202361183.gif


Spanish and Portuguese the same!
Click to expand...

It's true, my mistake. I remembered wrong. I went to retrieve my packaged copy on the closet and it actually says 1,000,000,000

20190913 005741
In my defense I can only say that the last time I read my copy was in 2006, and I swore that the number was only one hundred million, but I was wrong

My copy is the 2001 Star Comics edition, one of the first manga in Italy with the original layout (read from right to left)
 
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