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Madara's Low 6-B with Tengai Shinsei Downgrade
- Thread starter AppleLord
- Start date
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The most likely thing is that they were pulled from space
Saying that they were in the atmosphere already means that madara somehow,without his rinnegan,held up two meteors
This is impossible so it is pretty clear that even if they aren't on fire they were pulled from space
Saying that they were in the atmosphere already means that madara somehow,without his rinnegan,held up two meteors
This is impossible so it is pretty clear that even if they aren't on fire they were pulled from space
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Problem is that it isn't shown to be from space and isn't even ablated. There are two other meteor feats off the top of my head with better evidence to use the higher speeds and both of the calcs had to use ablation speeds from the atmosphere rather than space.
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It's impossible for them to not be from space though
He didn't have his Rinnegan on until he used the Jutsu so there is no way that he held the meteor's in the atmosphere until he used the jutsu which means that he pulled them from space when he turned on the Rinnegan and used the jutsu
He didn't have his Rinnegan on until he used the Jutsu so there is no way that he held the meteor's in the atmosphere until he used the jutsu which means that he pulled them from space when he turned on the Rinnegan and used the jutsu
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11―20km? It's not even ablated lol nor do we see it travel through space.
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The meteorites weren't even ablated why would we assume they came from space whenever there's no proof of it?
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We are assuming that because it is literally impossible to be from anywhere else. It is not. cT and it is not a summoning, do you think that meteors are just hanging around in the sky?
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Going by several other calcs which have more reasons why they should be from space in compassion to this one. We don't assume Jellal's or Gremmy's meteorite is from space because we don't know where they came from. Both of which were ablated, so they have a lot more going for them than this meteorite which isn't even ablated. It's our wiki standards, if we don't see them coming from space then we can't assume they do.
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The meteor lieterally has to be from space
Here is the order of events.
Madara fights the allied shinobi forces
Naruto throws a rasenshuriken
Madara activates his Rinnegan for the first time since he was resurrected and absorbs the rasenshuriken.
Madara talks to kabuto and then pulls the meteor down
Now if the meteor didn't come from space where did it come from
It can't have been chilling in the atmosphere already because it would naturally have just fell down onto everyone while Madara was fighting
It can't have been held up in the atmosphere by Madara since he didn't have his Rinnegan active until right before he uses the jutsu
The only place it could have came from was space this is clearly a case of the author just forgot
Here is the order of events.
Madara fights the allied shinobi forces
Naruto throws a rasenshuriken
Madara activates his Rinnegan for the first time since he was resurrected and absorbs the rasenshuriken.
Madara talks to kabuto and then pulls the meteor down
Now if the meteor didn't come from space where did it come from
It can't have been chilling in the atmosphere already because it would naturally have just fell down onto everyone while Madara was fighting
It can't have been held up in the atmosphere by Madara since he didn't have his Rinnegan active until right before he uses the jutsu
The only place it could have came from was space this is clearly a case of the author just forgot
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The author forgetting means nothing as whatever he forgot to include is not canon. That reasoning could be used for literally every meteor feat that doesn't show us the origin of the meteor.
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Again, if it wasn't ablated then it didn't come from space. I seriously doubt that it's just a case of the author forgetting to draw the meteorites being ablated, this seems like an excuse to me in order to High ball this calc. As I said above, it's wiki standards to assume that the meteorite didn't fall from space if we don't see that. It's why Jellal and Gremmy got downgraded. This is no different, especially whenever there's a lot less evidence for this coming from space in compassion to the others. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2914659?useskin=oasis
Here's the conversation Don't Talk discussed about meteorites. You can argue semantics about this being a Author Inconsistency all you want which isn't a valid argument to begin with since I can use that argument for just about anything, but you'd need to make a CRT about how we treat meteorites as a whole. I don't see any reason why Naruto should get a free pass here.
Here's the conversation Don't Talk discussed about meteorites. You can argue semantics about this being a Author Inconsistency all you want which isn't a valid argument to begin with since I can use that argument for just about anything, but you'd need to make a CRT about how we treat meteorites as a whole. I don't see any reason why Naruto should get a free pass here.
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That's true but in this case it is impossible for the meteor to not be from space it can not have been sitting in the atmosphere like what is being suggestedAnonymousBlank said:
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Also stating that it's impossible for it not to have came from space is a blatant Appeal to Possibility Fallacy in of itself.
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It doesn't matter if it has to be from space. Feats > assumptions and the feat is that the meteor wasn't ablated which means it wasn't even reaching 2km/s.
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Fiction can be whatever it wants, Naruto's world didn't even have a moon until it was made by the sage yet it was still perfectly fine as far as we can tell.
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Let's not bring the moon since the Otsutsuki are supossed to be from there prior to Hagoromo.
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Here's the official colors of the scene for reference
There's no fiery trails or anything.
There's no fiery trails or anything.
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Also, a potential problem I've noticed is that the current calc for the meteor feat uses this as the shape of the meteor... when we can clearly see that the meteor is not shaped like this on a later page.
EDIT: I'm making a new calc blog quickly to show how I'd calc the meteor's mass. I'll post it here when I'm done.
EDIT2: Here is my version of the meteor size & mass: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Madara_Meteor_Size
EDIT: I'm making a new calc blog quickly to show how I'd calc the meteor's mass. I'll post it here when I'm done.
EDIT2: Here is my version of the meteor size & mass: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Damage3245/Madara_Meteor_Size
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It's probably best to find a raw databook entry on the jutsu.
By classification, this isn't a meteor, this is an asteroid. Asteroids are most likely to be found in the asteroid belt, or near the sun. The Naruto wiki says it is drawn from the upper atmosphere, then their wording changes later where it says a second one can be "summoned". The fact that it says "upper atmosphere" disproves the possibility of it coming from space as well.
It's impossible for multiple potential life-wiping asteroids of this size to be orbiting the Earth so close that it can be drawn down in seconds or minutes. Not only is it impossible, but it can't be proven through the manga. 100 meteors hit the Earth annually, with largest being around 66 tons iirc.
By classification, this isn't a meteor, this is an asteroid. Asteroids are most likely to be found in the asteroid belt, or near the sun. The Naruto wiki says it is drawn from the upper atmosphere, then their wording changes later where it says a second one can be "summoned". The fact that it says "upper atmosphere" disproves the possibility of it coming from space as well.
It's impossible for multiple potential life-wiping asteroids of this size to be orbiting the Earth so close that it can be drawn down in seconds or minutes. Not only is it impossible, but it can't be proven through the manga. 100 meteors hit the Earth annually, with largest being around 66 tons iirc.
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As far as i'm aware this technique has no databook entry.
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Tengai Shinsei has no Databook Entry. It's name comes from The Ultimate Ninja Series.
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Well then everything we know about it is an assumption from a one-panel excerpt from a fodder calling it a meteor, and the name itself being derived from a video game. There's also a manga panel of sensor ninja from HQ calling it a giant boulder.
Kinetic energy can't be accurately used here because we don't have a decent estimation of where exactly it came from, and the best solution seems like potential energy.
Kinetic energy can't be accurately used here because we don't have a decent estimation of where exactly it came from, and the best solution seems like potential energy.
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As far as shape and size goes, isn't there another shot of the complete Susanoo forming and towering besides the gigantic meteorite? I know damage did a calculation for mass already, but if that wasn't only in the anime that could be used for reference too.
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Then, once more, stop complaining as that's how we already deal with meteor feats. Other feats with more backing for coming from space don't get any special treatment, so neither will this. Make a CRT to change how we deal with meteors or drop it, as you are getting nowhere with that.BlackeJan said:
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There is a shot of it with the Perfect Susano'o, but it's been split and heavily damaged.
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@Qaw Doesn't it have the second meteor inside the first one only with some cracks? Then again if it's really so damaged not much that can be done.
@Black It's even more common sense that a meteor coming from space would be ablated. As in, you know, the thing they do when coming from that distance and picking up speed which this one obviously didn't do. Jellal's are never shown coming from anywhere but a hole on the sky, Erza's mom is the one that is shown coming from Space. And Gremmy just simply imagined a Meteor, no mention of space, no shot of it coming from space, simple as that. We don't assume, as you are doing, "because it's common sense".
@Black It's even more common sense that a meteor coming from space would be ablated. As in, you know, the thing they do when coming from that distance and picking up speed which this one obviously didn't do. Jellal's are never shown coming from anywhere but a hole on the sky, Erza's mom is the one that is shown coming from Space. And Gremmy just simply imagined a Meteor, no mention of space, no shot of it coming from space, simple as that. We don't assume, as you are doing, "because it's common sense".
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It seems like the second meteor was skinned by the first. I'll get the colored scans when I get access to my computer.
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@Lsir
U can use the anime for more insight on something. Jellals Sema was shown to be cloud in anime (thanks to GMG). I'm just saying that it makes no sense for it to just be in mid air and that we all know it can be higher then 12km since it's shown to be ALOT higher in mid air
I think that it's more of a art inconsistency since manga artist just draw things just to draw cause we don't see ANY rocks forming into the sky or anything like that like how we would see Chibaku Tensei. This Tensei just happens to be a meteor to fall from the sky
U can use the anime for more insight on something. Jellals Sema was shown to be cloud in anime (thanks to GMG). I'm just saying that it makes no sense for it to just be in mid air and that we all know it can be higher then 12km since it's shown to be ALOT higher in mid air
I think that it's more of a art inconsistency since manga artist just draw things just to draw cause we don't see ANY rocks forming into the sky or anything like that like how we would see Chibaku Tensei. This Tensei just happens to be a meteor to fall from the sky
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Too many naruto and bleach revision at the same time
Coincidence?
Yeah obviously
Coincidence?
Yeah obviously
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Here's the imagesLSirLancelotDuLacl said:
- Another shot (should be noted that Onoki damaged part of it with his jutsu)
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Does make it hard, yes. Though is there any reason to think it may still not be the same length from tip to top? The one below is the most wrecked one, and we could at least get a length for it from comparing to Madara.
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We already know it's above the clouds last I saw, we see a hole being made in the clouds and it coming down. Issue is that even if we forget clouds can have different heights and that the anime is always treated as secondary canon, you are STILL deciding to ignore the other thing that doesn't make any sense at all - it's not ablated. Whatever you say or whatever you may feel, it's not. That can't be changed just because it couldn't have come from anywhere else, especially when that selective preference of details means the calc gets upgraded for no reason.BlackeJan said:
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+LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I guess not, assuming it isn't a shell or anything.
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Could help get a better idea if it's accepted. We can already know about Susanoo's height from Madara in the head jewel.
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