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Let's Talk About Magolor: Fixing Kirby's Profile and Scaling

I like how everyone forgets that the Mirror World had 2 different galaxies which would make Dark Mind at least 3-B since he corrupted it.

http://www.kirbysrainbowresort.net/games/mirror/maps/candy/room3.png

http://www.kirbysrainbowresort.net/games/mirror/maps/candy/room16.png

Mirror_World_transformed.png


Dark_Mind_Hel_Jap.jpg
 
Ok i read the blog where the calc takes place (967 quadrillions c feat),ITS valid,just a bit inaccurate,but It doesnt change the number too much,the blog says,Kirby traveled from his dimension to the another and the distance was likely 1 universe length,but It doesnt show Kirby traveling through the dimension,only kirby's.

Its valid.
 
To be fair the debris VT explosion does fly past multiple galaxies. I think that should be a pretty decent tier 3 feat.

However we can't calc it because the debris is moving at MFTL speeds and it's still an outlier anyway.
 
Wow, I only saw 1 galaxy. So... Any chance of 3-B VT via statements in the future?
 
Void Termina is stated to be "Kirby's biggest battle", implying that he's superior to even Magolor since VT is seen as a bigger threat than him.
 
ArbitraryNumbers said:
It's still an outlier anyway.
Click to expand...
RIP. Kirby gets another 3-B feat only for the first one to be disproven. Though to be fair, this one makes a bit more sense as it took everything in Kirby's power to kill Void Termina and the death explosion knocked him out. Though do you think it would scale to the Star Allies Sparkler (the big final weapon that Kirby uses to attack Void Termina) and not base form Kirby?
 
Wish888 said:
Dark Mind, Parallel Landia, Marx, Star Dream, Galacta Knight?

No? Of course not :/
Click to expand...
Dark Mind was rejected, Parallel Landia is from scaling, Marx was rejected, Galacta Knight is from scaling, and Star Dream is also from scaling.
 
@Froggysniper Well as far as scaling goes because of the fact that Kirby can beat Void soul on his own it doesn't matter the same thing was previously discussed about Magolor and super weapons if I'm not mistaken.
 
@Cumberjung Kirby still used the Star Allies Sparkler to hurt the Void Termina EX body (which is stronger than the soul) so it's more arguable than the Super Weapons.
 
Been away most of the day, so I suppose I'll address some random things from the thread, now.

  • Void Termina's death explosion being 3-B.
I really hope I don't have to explain this one, too much. When a cloud covers up the sun, this doesn't mean the cloud has consumed the sun. One of these objects is a lot closer than the other. Similarly, Void Termina's explosion, which is right on Kirby's tail, is a lot closer than a distant galaxy. On top of this, said explosion occurs withi Kirby's galaxy, and we see for a fact that it doesn't reach Popstar.

Also, the idea that Kirby and co. fight Void Termina in order to stop him from laying waste to the galaxy yet destroy multiple galaxies by killing him and don't give a shit is kind of hilarious, and something I can almost guarantee isn't being perpetuated by people who have actually gone through the game.

  • Dark Mind being 3-A for taking over an alternate universe.
This is not remotely an AP feat. Unless he heavily warped everything within the entire universe upon taking it over, which he doesn't, it's not a 3-A feat.

  • Kirby scaling to...Master Hand, I think?
...What?

  • "Stop ignoring Kirby's numerous feats above 4-A!"
You can't ignore what doesn't exist. All of these ludicrously high-end Tier 3 feats rely on insane assumptions that are not remotely supported within the game, and instead involve taking ridiculously vague imagery or statements and turning them up to the absolute highest interpretation. That was kind of the entire point of the Magolor downgrade in the OP. His 3-B to 3-A "feats" don't actually exist.
 
But if after the cloud disappeared the sun wasn't there anymore, that means the cloud actually destroyed the sun (bad example, I know). We see nothing in the place the explosion took place.

And when is it stated the battle took place in Kirby's galaxy, because simply say "to save the galaxy" isn't enough. I can tell you all the times it's said that you have to defeat random final boss to save Pop Star, and yet the fight doesn't take place there.

And Kirby isn't exactly the best guy in the game. The guy fought Meta Knight and released an extremely powerful monster just to take back his cake. Killed Haltmann's soul. Doesn't listen to reason and do whatever he sees that as right, as shown in Nightmare in Dreamland and Squeak Squad.

I'm okay with everything else
 
This example wouldn't so much be similar to a cloud passing over the sun and the sun not being there any more, though.

This would be akin to seeing a cloud pass over the sun, the person who was looking at the sun suddenly fainting, rolling down a steep hill, waking up an unspecified amount of time later, and then assuming the sun isn't there because said person is now looking at the ground. Kirby both no longer being in the same location and also being unconscious for an unknown period of time means we're not looking at the exact same thing. It would be a multi-galaxy level feat if Void Termina's explosion was explicitly shown to wipe out the surrounding galaxies, which it isn't, because the two shots aren't even in the same location.

Fighting Void Termina to save the galaxy, Void Termina is explicitly said to wander the galaxy, Hyness talks about being forced to the edge of the galaxy, everything up until that point taking place in the galaxy, etc. You would need to actually show why Kirby is suddenly not in the galaxy just because he travelled an unknown distance to fight Void Termina, after which he ended up back near Popstar, anyway.
 
But we know that's the direction the explosion took place. Kirby and debris were going in the same directio Kirby & Co. were flying on the warp star, meaning that behind them there must have been the galaxies we saw at the start but there aren't. And this is not like earth, there's literally nothing that stops us from seeing, well, nothing.

Using you example, this is like the person fainting, moving in a straight line, awakening, see his house is in the opposite direction, we see debis moving from the place he fell, and him walking towards home with a camera showing the sun isn't present anymore.

And nothing you posted shows that the fight took place in Kirby's galaxy when we basically see that the closest thing to us are other galaxies (and some strange planet). There's nothing between the platform and galaxies, so it makes sense that the fight doesn't take place in any galaxy at all.
 
>moving in a straight line

And there's part of the issue. You have no actual proof of this. Kirby clearly swerves in the cutscene itself, and there is an unknown period of time from when he's knocked out, when he wakes up, and when he sees Popstar. Again, him being near Popstar when he wakes up means he's not remotely in the same location. The logic of this "3-B" feat is quite literally "We don't see a galaxy when Kirby wakes up, even though he's somewhere else, meaning it must have been destroyed". For this to be an acceptable interpretation, you would need to show not only that there were no more galaxies in the area Kirby was when the explosion took place, but also that the camera was focused on the same place.

Due to the fact this is both a different location and a later time, on top of there being no actual animation in between, you can't actually do this. Even then, you would need to somehow prove how this omnidirectional explosion took out a distant galaxy while leaving countless stars and planets in the galaxy it happened in intact.

"And nothing you posted shows that the fight took place in Kirby's galaxy"

Except everything throughout the game that makes mention of the galaxy in particular.

"when we basically see that the closest thing to us are other galaxies (and some strange planet)"

That's not remotely how perspective works. Stars large enough to be clearly visible are going to be astronomically closer to your position than a visible galaxy is. The galaxy being bigger does not mean it's closer.

"There's nothing between the platform and galaxies"

Except for numerous stars.

"so it makes sense that the fight doesn't take place in any galaxy at all"

Again, not how this works.

If anything, this would further justify Hyness' "edge of the galaxy" statement.

Again, show me proof that this doesn't take place in the galaxy. Because if everything else in the game does, I have no reason to assume it's suddenly somewhere else, entirely.
 
Okay. I don't have the game with me now and I won't for some days, so I can't check things by myself. If I find anything, at most I'll make a new thread. I'm okay with the current revision
 
Kirby defeating a villain whose defeat causes a universe collapse isn't an outlier.

1) The only possibility for the universe to collapse is that Magolor has created it to stop the heroes.

2) Magic/reality warping has no relation with physical power; the latter being needed to resist the use of the former is an irrelevant detail in works by certain authors or oriented to children.

a) In the SSB series, also directed by Sakurai, Master Hand created the SSB universe, but is defeated by Tabuu as easily as Ganondorf, who was actually feigning loyalty to him and was going to betray him.

b) In Kid Icarus: Uprising, also directed by Sakurai, Palutena achieves many divine feats, but would be damaged by Pit (Chapter 20) as easily as Magnus (Chapter 24), who is barely tough for a human (Chapter 2).

I've posted a general discussion thread asking how SSB playable characters defeating Haster Hand whenever he challenges them doesn't count, but it's not receiving answers.
 
@Azzy Polite reminder to answer my previous doubts, you will potentially want to debunke Drawcia's "second" 4-A feat.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Been away most of the day, so I suppose I'll address some random things from the thread, now.
  • Void Termina's death explosion being 3-B.
I really hope I don't have to explain this one, too much. When a cloud covers up the sun, this doesn't mean the cloud has consumed the sun. One of these objects is a lot closer than the other. Similarly, Void Termina's explosion, which is right on Kirby's tail, is a lot closer than a distant galaxy. Oan top of this, said explosion occurs withi Kirby's galaxy, and we see for a fact that it doesn't reach Popstar.

Also, the idea that Kirby and co. fight Void Termina in order to stop him from laying waste to the galaxy yet destroy multiple galaxies by killing him and don't give a shit is kind of hilarious, and something I can almost guarantee isn't being perpetuated by people who have actually gone through the game.
Click to expand...
Actually,the battle takes place un another place in the universe,not kirby's galaxy,remember,VT doesnt do the same mistake as dark nebula,they were teleported away from kirby's galaxy,It isnt like DN,this time you don't see popstar in the background,they were very afar,the 3-B feat is valid,galaxies were nuked away and popstar was far away enough to survive (or is PIS) remember kirby was unconscious,by being knocked out by the explosion he was knocked out into popstar (near).
 
Somelatinguy said:
I've posted a general discussion thread asking how SSB playable characters defeating Haster Hand whenever he challenges them doesn't count, but it's not receiving answers.
Click to expand...
Since Master Hand is literally the god of the entire Smash verse, the fighters defeating him on the regular, let alone the guy who godstomped him, are treated as outliers. Why would a child be able to lose to the toys he plays with?

We've discussed the issue multiple times.

Regardless it's best you do not derail the thread.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Did you get them from the OBD Comprehensive Enerby List?

I can get the results.
Click to expand...
IIRC I used our AP chart and the result was Large Star+. Maybe I was mistaken though. Can you please check my links though.
 
I've been looking into the possibility that the area VT fights in being a pocket dimension. I've talked about it in other threads but it seems to be ignored so before I bring it here I'd like to ask a question.

What exactly is required for something to qualify as a pocket dimension? Because from what I know most if not all Kirby pocket dimensions are not directly stated to be pocket dimensions so beyond that what would be needed for something to count as one?
 
It has to be established or it has to be an area very strange compared to the normal universe. The Mirror World and Another Dimension were stated to be outside of Kirby's universe and we are ok with it, Marx Soul's wasn't and it was rejected (I think?), Star Dream wasn't but it's clear that it is one.

So VT's may not be one and we cannot assume that it is one.
 
I'm sure this it worthless but this is a cleaned up version of my post from earlier pointing out my observations. I don't plan on aggressively defending my case so unless something happens to change that I'll just leave this here.
 
There's also gravity despite the lack of anything that could cause it, and VT flying with wings despite the fact there's no air. Yeah, the place's strange, but I'm not sure if it's enough
 
Sence the first problem of the debris flying at MFTL speeds in the explosion I decided to simply wait for statements to support this, I recommend all of you to do the same.
 
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