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Kriemhild Gretchen v.s Reinhard

@Kal

It makes it so one who isn't invited there by Rein can never access it because of it's weird properties.

Also, distance ignoring spear plus the others properties.

Also, if Rein uses NF he will be faster than her, catch up to her and throw the thing.
 
Well Glad has 1-A Soul Manip (which means nothing in this fight), its basically its own dimension detached from the rest of existence and I think it has some form of Law Manip (might be 1-A) but Warren can explian it better.
 
i don't think that topic about his range was even finished. Again just stating trifa used it and hit true marie which a domino effect allowed her to have emotions. Rindou killed momiji before ascending to god with it. just saying
 
Well I talked to Monarch and he said he doesnt think LLT has 1-A range, he said it can just kill/harm beings through their avatars.
 
@Tony Her AP does which she generates passively. And Rein needs to summons Glads first when ressurected. Can't see him doing that if he dies instantly again.
 
except iirc momiji was really present when rindou killed her. Idk i need to recheck that part
 
PsychoWarper said:
I mean he can summon it via thought and that might work when hes regening but im not certain.
Click to expand...
Unless he respawns outside of gretchen range (which would be much bigger by the time he came back), he will dis again.
 
Beast Zero Gudako said:
@Tony Her AP does which she generates passively. And Rein needs to summons Glads first when ressurected. Can't see him doing that if he dies instantly again.
Click to expand...
He doesn't need to summons it again, it just is on a stand by mode. And that is without the need of his apoptosis immortality as you need to destroy Glads to kill him too.
 
remember kasumi route? Trifa speared through marie which resulted in affecting true marie iirc And she was a gudou by then but that spear strike eventually changed her to hadou i think
 
Yeah but you dont destroy his mind so if he can think while coming back to be destroyed he can summon Glad.
 
Gonna be kinda hard to think about using Glad when he's busy denouncing all his sins Everyone always forgets that passive ability
 
So her passives kill rein if he doesn't enter gladsheim in time

If so then he just goes lol type 8 and enters gladsheim at the same time so he isn't affected
 
Holy shit, this thread became a shit-show since I left.

I'll try and answer all of the points that I see.


>Is Magia Record cano

Yes

Cool, just checking.

>UKG's 5-B scaling

Refer to this.

Also, I'm not really getting the reasoning "Meth is 5-B, but he has tier 3 outliers so Reinhard is stronger than UKG in raw AP"

It's not that they are outliers, it is, similar to the scaling from Madoka, and immense lowball.

Although AP doesn't matter here as Gretchen is already growing to 2-A - so even if he did have the AP advantage, he wouldn't keep it for long.

And it is not like AP is what is going to win this fight.

>Do the passives kill instantly

It's lore stuff so we don't really know, but I'm pretty sure that if Reinhard is busy dealing with a dozen of powers at once, he'll be overwhelmed fairly quickly.

That's the point of the question.

If, for example, the poison and holy passives destroying Reinhard would cause Reinhard's body to instantly rot and burn for his sins which he doesn't have - then I would say that UKG would win via incapping him indefinitely as he is continuously being resurrected via his 1-A immortality.

If it isn't instant, however. I would make the argument when Reinhard gets assaulted by UKG's thirty passives and feels himself dying, that in what would be his last thoughts he would summon Glads as a "shield" to protect him, where he can regenerate safely.

Reinhard never has gotten ****** over by dozens of passive abilities in the series, for obvious reasons as he is the big bad antagonist in Dies Irae so him getting yeeted wouldn't make much sense in the story. And every time he encounters a hax ability whether it be passive or active, he always just brushed it off to seem more unstoppable.

So while something like this has never happened in the series and something I can't physically show you with scans of it happening, I would make the conclusion that my argument would happen because Reinhard isn't dumb - quite the opposite really - the most logical thing to do in a situation where someone (Reinhard in this case) is getting ****** over by all sides, is to retreat and rethink the plan of attack.

Then, because of her almost killing him, he will reward her with "his love" by throwing his spear at her, as he did with Meth after he stomped the LDO.

>There is also the fact that UKG has "all the possible futures" level precog, so if she has a power that works on Reinhard (She has pretty much every power that you'll ever see being mentioned in a PMMM thread, excluding Homura's stuff, plus resistance to it on a 2-A scale) be it active or passive, she'll use it.

1. This is a tangent I admit, but I am curious, why does she have every witches' abilities besides Homura? What makes Homura so special?

2. Well, the powers that we are talking about are passive, correct? So it's not like she really has to think to use any of her powers that would be able to kill Reinhard anyway.

>Also, UKG can get away if Reinhard tries to snipe, so that's moot. Rein can reach her, but he won't really know where she is because he doesn't have any sort of cosmic awareness, while she does.

At which point she really only have to wait until she reaches tier 2, which wouldn't take long

I am kind of confused here.

Why would being Tier 2 matter?

And wouldn't running away be Self-BFR?

>Idk what Glads does beyond regen and teleportation

Glads is Reinhard's Hadou-type Briah, it is his castle constructed from the skeletons and souls of his legion, his spear is his Yetzirah.

Briahs are the Die Ewigkeit (Magic of the series) caster's deepest desires being imprinted onto reality.

There are two types of Briah - Gudou and Hadou. Hadou is when the users desire effects the surrounding area with a limited range. Gudou is when the desire emanates inwards, changing the user's body.

Now about what it can do:

It has a passive effect of distorting distance and coordinates letting only those that Reinhard wants to come inside - cutting itself off from the world of Foreknowledge - which is the law of Mercurius.

Since the castle is detached from the world, Reinhard can summon it at any point throughout creation, and instantly teleport with it. When it enters a space, it will rip out and absorb any nearby souls in its range, although that doesn't matter here.

He can also summon his legion to it at any time, and Reinhard is able to indefinitely resurrect them even if their souls are destroyed or erased from existence.

The castle can also become a giant skeleton that shoots Light beams, but that doesn't really matter here.

Reinhard also has a skeleton army that he can summon, but that doesn't really affect this fight.


I think that's it.

Did that answer all your points?
 
Homura is special because she is both the only magical girl that won't eventually become part of the LoC (Meaning that her powers don't scale to Madoka) and her powers don't scale to UKG because she's essentially the composite witch of every magical girl that eventually becomes part of the LoC (Aka everyone but Homura)

There are both active and passive powers. Just out of the top of my head, there is stuff like the intangibility curse, which makes you unable to interact with anything and/or be sensed.

Being tier 2 matters because UKG's powers grow with her strength. She obviously can't rewrite laws on a multiversal scale as a tier 5, she lacks the potency. It's basically a "if she reaches tier 2, Rein gets hit with tier 2 hax" sort of thing
 
Kaltias said:
Homura is special because she is both the only magical girl that won't eventually become part of the LoC (Meaning that her powers don't scale to Madoka) and her powers don't scale to UKG because she's essentially the composite witch of every magical girl that eventually becomes part of the LoC (Aka everyone but Homura)
There are both active and passive powers. Just out of the top of my head, there is stuff like the intangibility curse, which makes you unable to interact with anything and/or be sensed.

Being tier 2 matters because UKG's powers grow with her strength. She obviously can't rewrite laws on a multiversal scale as a tier 5, she lacks the potency. It's basically a "if she reaches tier 2, Rein gets hit with tier 2 hax" sort of thing
Click to expand...
1.

What is the LoC?

2.

Oh, UKG won't effect Reinhard with curses. If he was able to resist Marie's curse, then he should resist UKG's:

"Resistance to Curses (was initially unaffected by Marie's curse)"

3.

I meant that I was confused as to why her hax being 4-D would matter? Even when it was 3-D, it would be able to affect him, so it being a higher dimensional level doesn't really matter.

It's not like she will ever be able to kill him due to his nature as Mercurius's Apoptosis.

And according to the scenario I laid out, Reinhard would have temporarily retreated into his castle - which is the Law of the New World" detached from Mercurius's 1-A Law - so UKG rewriting laws on a 4-D level means diddly squat - she isn't affecting him in there.

Also, Reinhard's Spear can "wash away the world of Foreknowledge" destroying even the Law of Mercurius. So it would definitely work on UKG.
 
The intangibility curse isn't an actual curse, curses are for witches, magic for magical girls (Unless you're Magia Record Kyoko, apparently, but that's a discussion for another day).

Though that is one example, there is still quite a bit to talk about when it to activation abilities.
 
SomebodyData said:
The intangibility curse isn't an actual curse, curses are for witches, magic for magical girls (Unless you're Magia Record Kyoko, apparently, but that's a discussion for another day).
Though that is one example, there is still quite a bit to talk about when it to activation abilities.
Click to expand...
You are kind of confusing me here, mate.

Isn't Gretchen a witch?
 
LoC means Law of Cycles

It's the act of Madoka making a soul gem dissappear as it becomes despair and makes the magical girl a witch
 
Schnee One said:
LoC means Law of Cycles
It's the act of Madoka making a soul gem dissappear as it becomes despair and makes the magical girl a witch
Click to expand...
That's was what she did when she became a God, right?

Why isn't Homura apart of that though? Doesn't she have a Soul gem too? Won't she eventually succumb to despair as well?
 
That is what Madoka was about to do before Homura went Yandere and split Madoka apart.

Regarding the intangibility curse, it is just a spell that made its victim unable to interract with anyone or anything.
 
Beast Zero Gudako said:
That is what Madoka was about to do before Homura went Yandere and split Madoka apart.
Click to expand...
Oh, she was about to do it but got stopped?

How the **** did Homura manage to do that?


Oh and sorry for all the questions. Thanks, guys, I appreciate it.
 
Warren Valion said:
Oh, she was about to do it but got stopped?

How the **** did Homura manage to do that?
Click to expand...
Homura in general is special when it comes to interacting with Madoka.

She is also the only person who can remember her, despite Madoka erasing herself from all of history.

If i'm not misremembering the explanation in the Wraith Arc, it's because her feelings for Madoka created a "true miracle", which basically equates to "give the middle finger to the laws of causality saying that you can't remember Madoka".

Her ability to separate Madoka's conceptual form and her old self most likely comes from that, too. After becoming Akuma Homura, she explained that she could do that because love is the strongest human emotion.

And don't worry about the questions, someone actually asking about the characters instead of "Why everyone has 2-A hax" (Which isn't true but whatever) is a welcome change lol

Also, the point of 4-D hax is that her powers in general have 4-D potency when she becomes tier 2. So if she reaches tier 2 she can simply do the same as Hazama and use lolmindhax
 
I'm just pointing a little something but a Hadou God is obligatory 1-A. So if it's Reinhard in his 5-B key (or 4-A or whatever) then you can't call him "Hadou God".
 
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