Puella Magi - fixing AP and other stuff

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Why can't a NEP resurrect? Where is that even said lmao.

And why would a NEP resurrect?

No. You literally said she became even more "nonexistent" while she just disappeared, clearly meaning she got erased. She didn't achieved a deeper layer of NEP. Nothing said she did.

M8, when you existing and got erased, you become Nonexistent unless you have Regen. This is common sense in this wiki. Same thing with Madoka erased stuffs, which includes UKG despite her NEP. It wasn't stated or said, it was literally shown in anime and manga (the anime is the process of erasure and the manga is the result).

That's why Type 4 immortality.

Immortality that neither shown/stated nor even makes sense even with assumption.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And why would a NEP resurrect?

Because is fiction? And before you bring the whole "but but you can't soul hax someone who hasn't a soul with this excuse"

• False equivalence
• NEP isn't really a dead state anyway. Plus even if you think like that, Zombies like Tricky the Clown shown to resurrect

M8, when you existing and got erased, you become Nonexistent unless you have Regen. This is common sense in this wiki. Same thing with Madoka erased stuffs, which includes UKG despite her NEP. It wasn't stated or said, it was literally shown in anime and manga (the anime is the process of erasure and the manga is the result).

She stopped being "alive" after that tho. She didn't pull a Monika where she kept to act as a NEP void even after her erasure.

Immortality that neither shown/stated nor even makes sense even with assumption.

Lmao.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Because is fiction? And before you bring the whole "but but you can't soul hax someone who hasn't a soul with this excuse"

• False equivalence
• NEP isn't really a dead state anyway. Plus even if you think like that, Zombies like Tricky the Clown shown to resurrec

It's not false equivalence when both example sounds absurd.

Now this is false equivalence, Zombies aren't Nonexistent being (most of the time), even the one you mentioned above. And don't put being Nonexistent is the same with being alive or death. It's completely different.

She stopped being "alive" after that tho. She didn't pull a Monika where she kept to act as a NEP void even after her erasure.

That's what it called a visual representation. UKG is NEP by lore and feats, her visually "appearing" in the anime and manga can never dispute this.

Lmao.

Wow, what a great comeback.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's not false equivalence when both example sounds absurd.

Fiction is absurd tho. You can mind hax mindless beings just fine.

That's what it called a visual representation. UKG is NEP by lore and feats, her visually "appearing" in the anime and manga can never dispute this.

You have nothing besides this. Also, UKG didn't even threaten the Earth anymore after that Madoka killed her.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Fiction is absurd tho

Won't deny this, and yet doesn't change my point.

You have nothing besides this. Also, UKG didn't even threaten the Earth anymore after that Madoka killed her.

I have the context behind UKG default NEP, which backed by lore in Witch Card and production book. The scene in Anime and Wraith Arc manga for UKG getting erased and what become of her after that.

You on other hand, only has assumption without some statement or scene regarding the resurrection or even immortality type 4.

And how does UKG not being a threat to earth have any relevance with her supposedly resurrection? Stop trying to change the subject.

 

[SomebodyData]

Low 2-C / High 3-A: The Unknown rating for UKG applies to what we see in the anime, which was when she was barely born. Her 'full power' state, which is what the statement would apply to, is galaxy-sized according to her card description, which is where the Low 2-C /High 3-A feat applies.

Removing MHS+: Currently, the second-highest MHS speed feat comes from the slowest character in the cast. The gap is only like 1.6x, when characters only slightly above her like Sayaka are shown to be capable of easily outspending Homura.

Momoko, who also isn't known for her speed, only needs 1.4x.

Fine with everything else.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Low 2-C / High 3-A: The Unknown rating for UKG applies to what we see in the anime, which was when she was barely born. Her 'full power' state, which is what the statement would apply to, is galaxy-sized according to her card description, which is where the Low 2-C /High 3-A feat applies.

Uhm. No? She literally originated from her Grief Seed which is that strong. She's also made of a High 3-A source too.

Removing MHS+: Currently, the second-highest MHS speed feat comes from the slowest character in the cast. The gap is only like 1.6x, when characters only slightly above her like Sayaka are shown to be capable of easily outspending Homura.

"Only". If the gap was like x1.2 then ok. But your cases are just upscaling and nothing else.

Momoko, who also isn't known for her speed, only needs 1.4x.

And?

 

[SomebodyData]

Uhm. No? She literally originated from her Grief Seed which is that strong. She's also made of a High 3-A source too.

All of what you said was true, but nothing was relevant to what I said. I'm pointing out she's not at full power yet during the anime. Her body literally swells up with the curses that Kyubey mentioned until she's galaxy-sized according to the card description and she's clearly not that size yet.

It'd be like scaling the feat to Madoka before she transforms completely into Ult. Madoka.

"Only". If the gap was like x1.2 then ok. But your cases are just upscaling and nothing else.

And?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/regarding-upscaling.112943/page-6

Upscaling thread (While no definitive number was reached) generally argued 1.33 - 2.0x are small enough gaps if one-shots (or in this case, blitzing) for a tier upscale.

Plus it's not like MHS+ or higher is like, never seen in the verse from regular magical girls. We got a Rel feat from one of the Amame sisters.

 

[SomebodyData]

This is much likely my last CRT here, but this is at least one of the last things I want to do here.

Also, what's up with that? Are you leaving?

 

[StrymULTRA]

All of what you said was true, but nothing was relevant to what I said. I'm pointing out she's not at full power yet during the anime. Her body literally swells up with the curses that Kyubey mentioned until she's galaxy-sized according to the card description and she's clearly not that size yet.

Ok fair. We still can add this as supportive evidence for 2-A, I guess.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/regarding-upscaling.112943/page-6

Upscaling thread (While no definitive number was reached) generally argued 1.33 - 2.0x are small enough gaps if one-shots (or in this case, blitzing) for a tier upscale.

Plus it's not like MHS+ or higher is like, never seen in the verse from regular magical girls. We got a Rel feat from one of the Amame sisters.

I though the Amane Sister feat doesn't scale to anything as it's just attack speed?

Also the gap is x1.37 from Momoko's feat. I never saw the x2 qualifying for upscaling.

Also, what's up with that? Are you leaving?

Kinda of. This wiki has been disappointing me quite too much lately.

 

[SomebodyData]

I thought the Amane Sister feat doesn't scale to anything as it's just attack speed?

Also the gap is x1.37 from Momoko's feat. I never saw the x2 qualifying for upscaling.

Ye, I was just noting that regular Puella Magi can surpass MHS+, so it's not something entirely new.

Well, there were some members like Shadow and Agnaa, although either way the gap for Momoko like you said is only 1.37, which is a lot smaller than that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, there were some members like Shadow and Agnaa, although either way the gap for Momoko like you said is only 1.37, which is a lot smaller than that.

I guess MHS+ can stary, given how convoluted these standards are anyways.

What do you think about NEP Nature btw? Should it be Type 1 or 2?

 

[SomebodyData]

I guess MHS+ can stary, given how convoluted these standards are anyways.

What do you think about NEP Nature btw? Should it be Type 1 or 2?

Yeah, even on the thread it was pretty much determined to be way too convoluted for exact standards.

I would say Type 2, but a rather weak Type 2 (relatively speaking) since she isn't transdual. The natures are perfect.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I would say Type 2, but a rather weak Type 2 (relatively speaking) since she isn't transdual. The natures are perfect.

You mean aspects.

Anyways, I don't see how that's Type 2 Nature. It's not like Monika who got erased, and still acted in her NEP state. She was just erased, and that's it. She later returned. She didn't ascend to a deeper level of NEP in a Monika-way thing.

 

[SomebodyData]

You mean aspects.

Anyways, I don't see how that's Type 2 Nature. It's not like Monika who got erased, and still acted in her NEP state. She was just erased, and that's it. She later returned. She didn't ascend to a deeper level of NEP in a Monika-way thing.

Yeah sorry, still get it kinda confused.

Well it's technically because she really only achieves the other two criteria (preceding the World of the Wraiths and directly opposing it), hence me calling it a weak type 2. Though I don't mind her being type 1.

 

[Delta333]

There is no such thing like weak type 2 tho. If she lacks reason for type 2 then she is type 1, that's all

 

[SomebodyData]

There is no such thing like weak type 2 tho. If she lacks a reason for type 2 then she is type 1, that's all

Well like I said, I was referring to the idea that she would barely qualify- if that- since she only really achieves two elements of the criteria and the primary one if you squint at it. Again, no problem with Type 1.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well like I said, I was referring to the idea that she would barely qualify- if that- since she only really achieves two elements of the criteria and the primary one if you squint at it. Again, no problem with Type 1.

I guess the profile can be unlocked.

Should I add the Grief Seed thing as another justification for 2-A?

 

[SomebodyData]

Sure, tell me when you're done.

I think the justification on the page already is probably good enough.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sure, tell me when you're done.

I think the justification on the page already is probably good enough.

Done.

Didn't touch Regen as that's too weird (If you want to change it with Type 4 Immortality tell me so) and added the Low 2-C stuff in the feats section.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Uhm, bump?

 

[SomebodyData]

What is there still left for the thread?

 

[StrymULTRA]

What is there still left for the thread?

Nothing tbh.

Only thing is if UKG should have Type 4 Immortality or still High Godly, given that is weird for a NEP being to regenerate.

 

[SomebodyData]

Regen High-Godly is basically just super resurrection, only for some reason, we treat it as a level of regen.

In theory you could just give her both

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regen High-Godly is basically just super resurrection, only for some reason, we treat it as a level of regen.

Meh, she doesn't just regen from Non existence, she regens back in Non existence, which is... weird.

Tho I'm neutral here.