Puella Magi - fixing AP and other stuff

[StrymULTRA]

This is much likely my last CRT here, but this is at least one of the last things I want to do here.

UKG becomes from Unknown to Low 2-C + other things

One of the things that bothered me the most about UKG is this. From 0:14 to 1:00.



The Soul Gem from which she generates from has enough energy to destroy an universe, and it's equal to the energy required to create one.

It's supported from a bunch of factors too:

• Kriemhild Gretchen becomes exponentially stronger at each reset Homura did like pointed here and in the profiles of both Madoka and Kriemhild Gretchen. 100 Resets happened since KG performed her 5-B feat, so figures.
• She's made of the despair of all the Magical Girls, which from its own should be High 3-A, given there are magical girls across the space and time of all the infinite timelines.
• That Grief Seed is merely the product of Madoka's ultimate wish. It makes completely sense that Madoka later on has easily one shotted her.

Her NEP should be updated to "Nature Type 1, Aspect Type 1, 2 and 5".

Nature and Aspect 1 and 2 are for quite obvious reasons, already said in both Madoka and UKG profiles. Aspect 5 is due to her lacking a past and future, given her concept was erased across space and time in all the points of it due to Madoka's wish.

Her Lifting Strength should also be changed to "Class Z, eventually Galactic to possibly Immeasurable (Through sheer size)", given her growth in size. Class Y has no basis to begin with.

Rampaging Sayaka becomes 5-A

Her 5-B calc which is currently on her profile isn't even a calc. I made this, and the 5-A end got accepted.

Removing MHS+

It comes from Suzune Amano, and her justification comes from blitzing MHS characters. Issue is that the highest MHS feat in the verse is not even 730 Mach, so is quite too far from baseline MHS+ to allow an upscale. So anyone gets MHS at best.

That's all.

 

[Zencha9]

Well not sure about Low 2-C since we're not sure how much it takes for UKG to end the universe
Though High 3-A is legit i remember a fire emblem character having H3A due to a simillar reasoning
The rest are fine
Should probably contact SomebodyData just in case since im rusty when it comes to PMM

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well not sure about Low 2-C since we're not sure how much it takes for UKG to end the universe

Timeframe doesn't even matter here. It's said that is comparable to the energy to create an universe, which is Low 2-C by default.

Should probably contact SomebodyData just in case since im rusty when it comes to PMM

Already called them.

 

[Zencha9]

Timeframe doesn't even matter here. It's said that is comparable to the energy to create an universe, which is Low 2-C by default.

I can't read anyways im fine will it then

 

[Randomlamdom]

All this looks good
This doesn't even matter but it hasn't been 100 resets since kg's 5-b, homura hasn't even gone through 100

 

[Delta333]

Agree with everything

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Though High 3-A is legit i remember a fire emblem character having H3A due to a simillar reasoning

Yes, while I'm unfamiliar with this verse, High 3-A from receiving power from infinite sources is legit (If you're receiving even the most miniscule amount of power imaginable, if it's coming from an infinite amount of things it still becomes infinite in the long-run). In fact the reasoning is almost exactly the same in this case, from what I can tell

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

isn't lacking past and future acausality type 2? doesn't matter if it includes concept. being something that lacks past and future or not possessing one is acausality type 2 rather than aspect type 5 NEP. we tend to avoid redundant abilities

I'm still neutral with low 2-C

the rest looks fine to me

 

[StrymULTRA]

isn't lacking past and future acausality type 2? doesn't matter if it includes concept. being something that lacks past and future or not possessing one is acausality type 2 rather than aspect type 5 NEP. we tend to avoid redundant abilities

She's already Type 5 Acasual.

Type 5 NEP fits in this case as her concept was completely erased across time, exactly like her concept (and Soul due to her Witch physiology) was.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

She's already Type 5 Acasual.

Type 5 NEP fits in this case as her concept was completely erased across time, exactly like her concept (and Soul due to her Witch physiology) was.

then aspect type 5 is redundant in NEP if she's already type 5 acausal. literally, type 5 acausal encompasses that and she's beyond that already
doesn't matter that she was erased as a concept or not if she's already Type 5 acausal there is no need for NEP aspect 5 just to say again she has no form of causality for being beyond it which is already part of type 5 acausal

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Why not nature type 2?

 

[Shmooply]

Looks clean.

 

[StrymULTRA]

then aspect type 5 is redundant in NEP if she's already type 5 acausal. literally, type 5 acausal encompasses that and she's beyond that already
doesn't matter that she was erased as a concept or not if she's already Type 5 acausal there is no need for NEP aspect 5 just to say again she has no form of causality for being beyond it which is already part of type 5 acausal

Except that is a bit more completely than just Type 2 Acausality as not just the being, but the whole concept is non-existent. Aspect 5 NEP fits way more to what happened.

Why not nature type 2?

Nothing says it's Type 2.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Except that is a bit more completely than just Type 2 Acausality as not just the being, but the whole concept is non-existent. Aspect 5 NEP fits way more to what happened.

like i said she is already type 5 acausality. putting nep aspect 5 because of not having past present and future is redundant because they are technically beyond causality systems meaning they already do not possess those
unnecessary bloating of profile

 

[StrymULTRA]

like i said she is already type 5 acausality. putting nep aspect 5 because of not having past present and future is redundant because they are technically beyond causality systems meaning they already do not possess those

Not all NEP and Acasual 5 characters have this.

This would be blatantly excluding abilities because "lol she already has those" when the way it's shown is much different.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

UKG might have Nature Type 2, as far as I understand, being "nonexistent" to the regular nonexistent is enough to grant this.

UKG when she appears in episode 12 was already in a state of nonexistent even before Madoka finish her off. When Madoka did that, UKG became even more "nonexistent" than her previous nonexistent state.

 

[StrymULTRA]

UKG might have Nature Type 2, as far as I understand, being "nonexistent" to the regular nonexistent is enough to grant this.

UKG when she appears in episode 12 was already in a state of nonexistent even before Madoka finish her off. When Madoka did that, UKG became even more "nonexistent" than her previous nonexistent state.

That's just her regenerating from NEP 1 Erasure, hence why she got HIgh Godly in the 1st place.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

UKG might have Nature Type 2, as far as I understand, being "nonexistent" to the regular nonexistent is enough to grant this.

UKG when she appears in episode 12 was already in a state of nonexistent even before Madoka finish her off. When Madoka did that, UKG became even more "nonexistent" than her previous nonexistent state.

She's nonexistent on a conceptual level, no? Then even more sense for this to be the case.

That's just her regenerating from NEP 1 Erasure, hence why she got HIgh Godly in the 1st place.

She's never nep 1 tho. She was nep 2 at that moment, and gets high-godly during WA.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

That's just her regenerating from NEP 1 Erasure, hence why she got High Godly in the 1st place.

High-Godly is regeneration after erasure of history/information/concept/etc. UKG lacks none of those to in the first place even before getting offed, so she can't be regenerating. Otherwise, she wouldn't be a Nonexistent being to begin with.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

High-Godly is regeneration after erasure of history/information/concept/etc. UKG lacks none of those to in the first place even before getting offed, so she can't be regenerating. Otherwise, she wouldn't be a Nonexistent being to begin with.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-a-potential-hax-for-ultimate-madoka.134269/

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Not all NEP and Acasual 5 characters have this.

This would be blatantly excluding abilities because "lol she already has those" when the way it's shown is much different.

you're just repeating your same argument

disagree with NEP aspect 5

rest is fine

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

High-Godly is regeneration after erasure of history/information/concept/etc. UKG lacks none of those to in the first place even before getting offed, so she can't be regenerating. Otherwise, she wouldn't be a Nonexistent being to begin with.

her concept as a witch was erased but still survived and regenerated
case close

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-a-potential-hax-for-ultimate-madoka.134269/

Current High-Godly only covers for those who aren't Nonexistent beings based on the description.

Example: Madoka is a concept, if she got erased and regenerates back, then it's High-Godly Regen. UKG however, lacks of concept, so there is nothing to regenerate to.

her concept as a witch was erased but still survived and regenerated
case close

Do you know what a regeneration is? It's a restoration to put it simply. Concept of witch got erased and still stay that way. UKG has NEP is because her lacks of concept, if she did regenerate her concept, then she wouldn't even be a Nonexistent being in the first place.

 

[StrymULTRA]

High-Godly is regeneration after erasure of history/information/concept/etc. UKG lacks none of those to in the first place even before getting offed, so she can't be regenerating. Otherwise, she wouldn't be a Nonexistent being to begin with.

She's literally made of just the despair which doesn't exist anymore.

This also makes me question that being High Godly to begin with at this point. What about Self-Resurrection (Type 4 Immortality) instead, given it would fit better what happened?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

She's literally made of just the despair which doesn't exist anymore.

And? This only further proves my point.

This also makes me question that being High Godly to begin with at this point. What about Self-Resurrection (Type 4 Immortality) instead, given it would fit better what happened?

Madoka is a concept, if she got erased and regenerates back, then it's High-Godly Regen.

UKG in episode 12 has already lacks of concept, this is her NEP Nature Type 1 state. Then Madoka erased her again but UKG survived in the Nonexistent Multiverse. She cannot be having High-Godly Regen since the point of a regeneration is to restore the thing that got destroyed, and UKG lacks pretty much everything like concept, history, etc. Current High-Godly description doesn't say anything about "regenerating" someone Nonexistence. The only thing that fits the bill to what happened to UKG is her NEP Nature become superior to her previous state, which means she become Nature Type 2.

 

[StrymULTRA]

UKG in episode 12 has already lacks of concept, this is her NEP Nature Type 1 state. Then Madoka erased her again but UKG survived in the Nonexistent Multiverse. She cannot be having High-Godly Regen since the point of a regeneration is to restore the thing that got destroyed, and UKG lacks pretty much everything like concept, history, etc. Current High-Godly description doesn't say anything about "regenerating" someone Nonexistence. The only thing that fits the bill to what happened to UKG is her NEP Nature become superior to her previous state, which means she become Nature Type 2.

Then that's simply not High Godly but Type 4 Immortality kek.

Ergo Nature 1 still stands.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Then that's simply not High Godly but Type 4 Immortality kek.

Ergo Nature 1 still stands.

But UKG neither reincarnated nor resurrected though. Nothing implied her did that.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But UKG neither reincarnated nor resurrected though. Nothing implied her did that.

She was completely wiped from Madoka lmao.

Nothing implied her concept "existed but not" either. She reappeared later, meaning that she's resurrected. It can't be High Godly in 1st place as everything that made her being were already erased.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Do you know what a regeneration is? It's a restoration to put it simply. Concept of witch got erased and still stay that way. UKG has NEP is because her lacks of concept, if she did regenerate her concept, then she wouldn't even be a Nonexistent being in the first place.

her also gaining NEP because it has nothing to do with regeneration. which just proves that he can exist even without a concept and all aspects of her existence (soul physical mind concept) erased. similar to how Graham can still regenerate after his nothingness source was erased further thus it also gave him nep type 2 because despite being erased as nothingness he still existed in some nonexistent form beyond erased.

But UKG neither reincarnated nor resurrected though. Nothing implied her did that.

if she didn't then how can she fight ultimate Madoka during the entirety of Madoka Magica and after losing and got erased she come back to challenge ultimate Madoka again. no need for further statement like she regenerated. the fact that she came back is enough doesn't matter if its through resurrection or existing as nonexistent or being a power to challenge it

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

She was completely wiped from Madoka lmao.

And your point is?

Nothing implied her concept "existed but not" either. She reappeared later, meaning that she's resurrected. It can't be High Godly in 1st place as everything that made her being were already erased.

When did I said UKG has any concept to begin with though? There isn't any dialogue or narration that stated UKG "resurrected". She just reappeared (in a sense of Nonexistent being), the burden of proof is in yours.

her also gaining NEP because it has nothing to do with regeneration. which just proves that he can exist even without a concept and all aspects of her existence (soul physical mind concept) erased.

Did I ever stated UKG NEP due to Regen? Because I have said multiple times that she has it due to lacks of concept (and all others aspect), and not regeneration.

despite being erased as nothingness he still existed in some nonexistent form beyond erased.

So the same as UKG? Got it, further proof for Nature Type 2.

if she didn't then how can she fight ultimate Madoka during the entirety of Madoka Magica and after losing and got erased she come back to challenge ultimate Madoka again. no need for further statement like she regenerated. the fact that she came back is enough doesn't matter if its through resurrection or existing as nonexistent or being a power to challenge it

Because she become even more Nonexistent than her previous Nonexistent state, just like you said above. Thus, Nature Type 2.

Are you even disagreeing with me or not?

 

[StrymULTRA]

And your point is?

That Madoka has erased her despite being in NEP state.

When did I said UKG has any concept to begin with though? There isn't any dialogue or narration that stated UKG "resurrected". She just reappeared (in a sense of Nonexistent being), the burden of proof is in yours.

Really rich coming from you.

Your version: UKG appeared in Madoka's new laws as NEP 1 > Madoka deletes her > Later on UKG somehow becomes NEP Nature 2 out of nowhere with no statement with an High Godly despite she never had a concept to begin with

Mine: UKG appeared > Madoka deletes her > UKG resurrects and returns to fight Madoka like before.

Guess which one takes less assumptions.

So the same as UKG? Got it, further proof for Nature Type 2.

Because she become even more Nonexistent than her previous Nonexistent state, just like you said above. Thus, Nature Type 2.

No statement saying she did.

 

[Jinsye]

We conflated godly regen and resurrection half the time on the wiki so we really have no standards. They're basically one and the same at that point.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

this is stupid to argue further I already said my piece on what I agree with and disagree on. so I'll be unfollowing now

 

[StrymULTRA]

We conflated godly regen and resurrection half the time on the wiki so we really have no standards. They're basically one and the same at that point.

^

I think Resurrection works better as Regeneration doesn't fit a NEP being at all tbf.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

^

I think Resurrection works better as Regeneration doesn't fit a NEP being at all tbf.

Weren't you the one who made the thread on type 5 acausality/high-godly? What changed now?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

That Madoka has erased her despite being in NEP state.

Yes, I said the same thing multiple times. So what's your point?

Really rich coming from you.

Your version: UKG appeared in Madoka's new laws as NEP 1 > Madoka deletes her > Later on UKG somehow becomes NEP Nature 2 out of nowhere with no statement with an High Godly despite she never had a concept to begin with.

Your said it yourself UKG is made out of despair, which is nonexistent when Madoka stated her wish. This is her default state even before she resides in Nonexistent Multiverse. Even her witch card and guidebook stated so. When Madoka erased her again despite her NEP Nature Type 1, she become Nonexistent beyond the regular Nonexistence when she "appeared" in Wraith Arc manga. She can't have High-Godly Regen by current standard due lacking anything to restore. Resurrection doesn't make sense with the context of UKG state of being, reincarnation is even more absurd. NEP Nature Type 2 is more fitting to what happens to UKG given the context.

Mine: UKG appeared > Madoka deletes her > UKG resurrects and returns to fight Madoka like before.

Guess which one takes less assumptions.

You didn't bring up UKG NEP type one when Madoka deletes her again.

No statement saying she did.

The context strongly implied that.

We conflated godly regen and resurrection half the time on the wiki so we really have no standards. They're basically one and the same at that point.

Back when UKG got High-Godly (it's actually Mid-Godly before the standard changed it into High-Godly) the first time, we were conflicted whether UKG survived because of Resurrection or Regen, since it happened off screen. We decided the latter with the context UKG technically isn't a "living" being in conventional way.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Weren't you the one who made the thread on type 5 acausality/high-godly? What changed now?

People can change their mind, you know?

Also the difference is basically none, only thing that actually changes is how her returning from being erased in a NEP state is the ability she used to do so.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Your said it yourself UKG is made out of despair, which is nonexistent when Madoka stated her wish. This is her default state even before she resides in Nonexistent Multiverse. Even her witch card and guidebook stated so. When Madoka erased her again despite her NEP Nature Type 1, she become Nonexistent beyond the regular Nonexistence when she "appeared" in Wraith Arc manga. She can't have High-Godly Regen by current standard due lacking anything to restore. Resurrection doesn't make sense with the context of UKG state of being, reincarnation is even more absurd. NEP Nature Type 2 is more fitting to what happens to UKG given the context.

Why can't it make sense? It's fiction. I don't see why NEP beings can't resurrect as such.

The context strongly implied that.

It doesn't allow you to make stuff like this, too much assumptions. You're literally inventing stuff despite nothing explicitly stated what you said. Abilities of this caliber need explicit statements, not your narrative.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Why can't it make sense? It's fiction. I don't see why NEP beings can't resurrect as such.

Saying "It's fiction" is not an argument. We even get rid of "Soul-haxing soulless being" stuff despite being fiction.

It doesn't allow you to make stuff like this, too much assumptions. You're literally inventing stuff despite nothing explicitly stated what you said. Abilities of this caliber need explicit statements, not your narrative.

Literally the stuffs I said fits the bill with the wiki standard. Like UKG (or anyone with NEP with aspect type 2,4 and 5) actually doesn't have High-Godly if you read the standard more closely.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Saying "It's fiction" is not an argument. We even get rid of "Soul-haxing soulless being" stuff despite being fiction.

Why can't a NEP resurrect? Where is that even said lmao.

Literally the stuffs I said fits the bill with the wiki standard. Like UKG (or anyone with NEP with aspect type 2,4 and 5)

No. You literally said she became even more "nonexistent" while she just disappeared, clearly meaning she got erased. She didn't achieved a deeper layer of NEP. Nothing said she did.

if you read the standard more closely.

That's why Type 4 immortality.