Kingdom Hearts Low 2-C Upgrade

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Scottycj256]

yaaaaaay KH is no longer bad

 

[SamanPatou]

I have a few doubts, tho its overall well-structured.
I agree with Bambu that the worlds aren't necessarily all universes, some might be as large as solar systems and others have multiple within them, like the Olimpus, although I have yet to finish reading KingOfWolves' points about the barriers being dimensional and not just spatial walls made of light.
I also have yet to read the google doc.

Still, I have a few questions of my own.

- Why would Young Xehanort's overall AP scale to his creation feat?

- Where is is stated that Sora is empowered by the entirety of Kingdom Hearts' power? He acquired its power (the Light), yes, but do we have evidences he draws the very entirety of this power? (which I think to remember was what Xehanort wanted to achieve, in order to reshape all reality)

- Where is it stated that Sora affected the entirety of KH, in this case regarding its size? He got access to its power, but drawing power from it doesn't mean he somehow affected the whole thing.

Ansem says that Kingdom Hearts lies within the Endless Abyss, but in the blog you say that latter is contained within the former.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Saman. It is very appreciated.

 

[Bobsican]

I have a few doubts, tho its overall well-structured.
I agree with Bambu that the worlds aren't necessarily all universes, some might be as large as solar systems and others have multiple within them, like the Olimpus, although I have yet to finish reading KingOfWolves' points about the barriers being dimensional and not just spatial walls made of light.
I also have yet to read the google doc.

Still, I have a few questions of my own.

- Why would Young Xehanort's overall AP scale to his creation feat?

- Where is is stated that Sora is empowered by the entirety of Kingdom Hearts' power? He acquired its power (the Light), yes, but do we have evidences he draws the very entirety of this power? (which I think to remember was what Xehanort wanted to achieve, in order to reshape all reality)

- Where is it stated that Sora affected the entirety of KH, in this case regarding its size? He got access to its power, but drawing power from it doesn't mean he somehow affected the whole thing.

Ansem says that Kingdom Hearts lies within the Endless Abyss, but in the blog you say that latter is contained within the former.

We aren't arguing that "all" of them are universes, otherwise this would be a 2-B upgrade, although it just happens that the proof for something being a pocket reality is fairly similar to the Universe criteria beyond size. In any case, that's a future topic that's not being requested right now.

Anyways...

Young Xehanort made a copy of the Toy Story universe, which is inherently Low 2-C, with such copy even being visible in the middle of the Realm of Light, but with the vagueness of the feat I can see why scaling it to physical AP may be questionable, but it still supports the consistency of the rating.

Oh no, as said in the blog, the argument is that Sora's strength of heart is what significantly affected KH, which scales to the Keyblade as Mickey explains in Re:coded how this very same strength of heart directly draws upon the Keyblade's power. Xehanort wanted true KH (The one of BbS and KHIII) to do that, not the KH of Worlds, Ansem as any other Heartless just wants to drop all the worlds into darkness. Size-wise, it's clear that shortly after Sora and others close the Door to Darkness, KH vanishes off-screen, which causes all worlds to be restored eventually (bar the 7 ones in KH3D for other reasons), and such "endless abyss" to vanish as Sora and others end up in a open field in the Realm Between (and Chain of Memories happens from here).

Oh, does it? I may have misworded it, regardless, it's meant to say that the KH of Worlds sustains that place, which is consistent with how after it vanishes, such "endless abyss" does too.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Bump?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Bump?

Currently a blog is in progress as an answer for a blog that was posted here previously.

Oh, I should've posted it here, too.

Debunking Bob's KH Revisions

The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...

docs.google.com

I have no idea if this is excessively relevant. I'll go through the evidence posted above at some point, I don't have time right now.

Real life obligations kind of slow down the process but we are getting there.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Got it.

 

[Antvasima]

Which members should I ask to come and help out here again?

 

[ThanatosX]

How are things here with the blog?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

How are things here with the blog?

There is progress but real life matters make it kinda slow.

 

[Bobsican]

I've been busy with university and have lacked the time to properly continue it, but we're about half way now. Please be patient.

 

[ThanatosX]

No problem, if you need any help for the blog you can contact me on my message wall.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, if anyone's willing to help there's the invite link to our Discord server in the general discussion thread. That's where the progress is being done nowadays.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, to bring back some life to this thread, maybe we can talk about something the Discord brought up:

The KHI Manga refers to End of the World as a space-time:

But as some here may know already, the manga is a tertiary canon for our purposes as it isn't supervised by Nomura:

https://www.khinsider.com/news/New-Famitsu-Interview-with-Tetsuya-Nomura-908
"–I want there to be manga and short stories about Organization XIII before they were Nobodies, like those of Roxas’s time afterwards with Hayner and company.

Nomura: First of all, considering manga and short stories, since they’re made when the author’s requests, saying ‘I want to write this’, this isn’t the place to ask for them. Therefore, there’s a possibility if that opinion comes from the writer’s side of it. However, it is dangerous because what is drawn upon in future games may end up conflicting with it. Because of that, if they decide not to do those parts of the game, then maybe it’ll happen."

So I'm just going to ask on thoughts here on if this is supporting evidence at all or not on the matter of "worlds" being pocket realities of sorts. I'm not a fan myself for the before-mentioned reasons, but I'm open to what others think over this.

On another note, yes, progress has been done on the debunk blog, but more notably on some nice extras that will be properly revealed soon.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, the previous post was quite minor, but to show that progress is still being done, plus to ask thoughts on a more relevant matter...

This talk between Data-Sora and Data-Riku leads into "we've got the whole universe inside of us", and while Data-Riku does comment it was "a little flowery" a while after, Data-Sora does reaffirm that the Data-Worlds were inside Data-Riku, and he doesn't decline.
Therefore, while some may be a bit uncomfortable as it's in the middle of explicit flowery language, there's still the implication of the Datascape being a universe and it being inside Data-Riku, so the question is if this would be usable to support that or not.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know.

Can you explain the arguments here so far and what needs to be evaluated in an easy to understand manner, so I can ask for more staff input?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, we aren't done yet, this is more so asking on if these parts in particular could be used to support our side of claims or not based on the site standards and all, as simply put the group working on the debunk stuff is unsure over the parts mentioned above.
Therefore there's nothing to summarize over the above at the moment, it's about as straightforward it can get, but just in case, simply the last two posts I've done really, perhaps you could try pinging Mr. Bambu?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we aren't done yet, this is more so asking on if these parts in particular could be used to support our side of claims or not based on the site standards and all, as simply put the group working on the debunk stuff is unsure over the parts mentioned above.
Therefore there's nothing to summarize over the above at the moment, it's about as straightforward it can get, but just in case, simply the last two posts I've done really, perhaps you could try pinging Mr. Bambu?

Okay.

@Mr._Bambu

Do you have any input regarding Bobsican's new points?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It feels like retreading old points and semantics, so I think it's just more fuel for the revisions should the google doc get debunked. Until that time I don't think the new points make a particularly strong case on their own.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Bobsican]

Thankfully the debunk blog got done today.

Ant, you can now contact the other staff that commented in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but you will have to write a list of them first.

 

[Bobsican]

Sure.

Regular users:
The_2nd_Existential_Seed, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, ThanatosX, Kingofwolves999, ProfessorKukui4Life, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, Hizack123, ArmBill, Braking, Tipper17, Scottycj256, Accelerate420, Zencha9, Mr.Cinos15

Staff:

Nehz_XZX, Mr._Bambu, ElixirBlue, SamanPatou

Ultima_Reality also told me he was going to comment after I insisted for months, so he'd be fine to ping as well.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Being listed as a staff member in a thread where I wasn't one for the majority of the time and that has been going on for a long time feels weird. Now that I think about it I wasn't a staff member the last time I commented in this thread.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, you can still update your thoughts on the matter if you consider so. You did still provide valuable evaluation on the matter in any case.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, you can still update your thoughts on the matter if you consider so. You did still provide valuable evaluation on the matter in any case.

Okay, I understand.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Thankfully the debunk blog got done today.

Ant, you can now contact the other staff that commented in this thread.

An updated version of the Doc was created in response to your blog:

Debunking Bob's KH Revisions

The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...

docs.google.com

 

[Nehz_XZX]

An updated version of the Doc was created in response to your blog:

Debunking Bob's KH Revisions

The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...

docs.google.com

That was pretty quick. So, who actually feels like reading that?

 

[Antvasima]

Whose Google document is that? Also, it would be better to post it as a blog in our wiki instead. After that I can link to both blogs and ask the members who have previously helped out in this thread to take a look at them.

 

[Neon2hu]

The doc is from GiverOfThePeace. We're working on a response to the response right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Why does he not post it in the wiki? Google docs usually seem to require that whoever views them shows their real life Google identity or email address.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay. Why does he not post it in the wiki? Google docs usually seem to require that whoever views them shows their real life Google identity or email address.

He has left the site long ago, apparently he just desires to reply to this stuff as he sees it as misinformation that presumably goes against the purposes of his wiki (DJW) or so.
In any case, I'd rather at this point leave it up to the users in here on what they think on the matter, as if we keep going back and forth any further the interest will drop a lot and hardly anyone will want to read everything.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Noted.

@The_2nd_Existential_Seed @The_Axiom_of_Virgo @ThanatosX @Kingofwolves999 @ProfessorKukui4Life @Milly_Rocking_Bandit @Hizack123 @ArmBill @Braking @Tipper17 @Scottycj256 @Accelerate420 @Zencha9 @Mr.Cinos15 @Nehz_XZX @Mr._Bambu @ElixirBlue @SamanPatou @Ultima_Reality

What do you think about this?

KH Low 2-C Doc Debunk

vsbattles.fandom.com

Debunking Bob's KH Revisions

The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...

docs.google.com

Remember to use the Brave Internet browser to open the Google document to be certain to stay anonymous.

 

[Scottycj256]

I agree with bobsican's points and disagree with giver's debunk

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I agree with Bob’s worldview.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluations.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I side more with Bob as well

 

[ThanatosX]

I will give a better look at the blogs later, but after an initial read of both I agree more with Bobsican's blog for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to you as well then.