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Kingdom Hearts Low 2-C Upgrade
- Thread starter Bobsican
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I agree with this
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Alright, here we go:
Pete is exiled (stop at 3:14:02) for being a trouble maker, and is sent to the Ocean Between. Goofy, when he encounters Pete after this, refers to the Ocean Between as another dimension that Pete was sent to.
The initial world, the one filled with light, is made of countless, physically joined worlds. There is no barrier between these worlds, and they mix freely. This world was then broken into further countless worlds (stop at 28:05), and the Xehanort reports again repeat that the number of worlds out there are uncountable.
The growth of worlds is tied to them being removed from each other, with not all worlds growing at the same rate (stop at 15:40). This is due to worlds having their own hearts, just like people, and needing to rebuild themselves for protection. This is further shown by each world having their own time axis.
The second question asked in this interview further frames the structure of the world and travel, and refers to the Ocean Between as the "space studded with all the worlds." Also, here is Eraqus (stop at 2:20) who can casually seal and unlock the connecting paths that lead to the worlds.
Now, for the worlds themselves. Each world is in possession of its own space and in some cases, universe.
Starting with Stitch, we have a statement here from the KH3 Ultimania regarding him. The translation of this reads that he escaped from a research facility (The level shown in Birth By Sleep) in a distant universe. Stitch is directly referred to be from a different universe. And no, there is no "sekai" vagueness in this translation. It uses the word "uchuu" which means universe.
Neverland is not only Neverland, as it hosts the entirety of London, featuring a full sky of stars and a sun. This shows that this world, and many others like it, features its own space, yet is still ignorant of other worlds.
Deep Jungle (look at globe to left of screen), Tarzan's world, possesses both a world globe and map of Africa (behind Sora and Tarzan), meaning it is technologically and socially advanced enough to know about space and proves that it exists in their world. This is due to the first globe being made far beyond the time of the Greeks and other civilizations that discovered the cosmos.
Essentially, bare minimum, each of the worlds contains a solar system, with at least Stitch's world containing a universe. However, regardless of this, it proves that the Ocean Between is not the same as the space each world calls their own, and is in fact a different dimension entirely, leading to all worlds, regardless of inner size, being pocket realities.
Further for the Ocean, Cid refers to it as "interspace" (stop at 12:25), putting it directly apart from normal space. The definition of interspace. Even Xehanort, in his second report, refers to the Ocean as "an outer space-like sea called a different sky" ("異空と呼ばれる宇宙空間のような海")
On to the world barriers themselves, they are referred to as being made of light by Xehanort in his 3rd report, and going back to the interview, in the second question again, are stated to be invisible shells. This is also where the creation of Gummi blocks is explained to be that broken shell of light, crashing down as meteors that settle into Gummi blocks on a planet.
When Sora appears on a world, he does not appear in space, but precisely on the planet that the heart of the world lies. The heart of a world is found inside a planet of the world, which Sora arrives at. Even when they fumblingly appear in a world (stop at 4:30), with barely any navigation due to childish fighting, they appear on the right world, with no space travel in between.
Pete is exiled (stop at 3:14:02) for being a trouble maker, and is sent to the Ocean Between. Goofy, when he encounters Pete after this, refers to the Ocean Between as another dimension that Pete was sent to.
The initial world, the one filled with light, is made of countless, physically joined worlds. There is no barrier between these worlds, and they mix freely. This world was then broken into further countless worlds (stop at 28:05), and the Xehanort reports again repeat that the number of worlds out there are uncountable.
The growth of worlds is tied to them being removed from each other, with not all worlds growing at the same rate (stop at 15:40). This is due to worlds having their own hearts, just like people, and needing to rebuild themselves for protection. This is further shown by each world having their own time axis.
The second question asked in this interview further frames the structure of the world and travel, and refers to the Ocean Between as the "space studded with all the worlds." Also, here is Eraqus (stop at 2:20) who can casually seal and unlock the connecting paths that lead to the worlds.
Now, for the worlds themselves. Each world is in possession of its own space and in some cases, universe.
Starting with Stitch, we have a statement here from the KH3 Ultimania regarding him. The translation of this reads that he escaped from a research facility (The level shown in Birth By Sleep) in a distant universe. Stitch is directly referred to be from a different universe. And no, there is no "sekai" vagueness in this translation. It uses the word "uchuu" which means universe.
Neverland is not only Neverland, as it hosts the entirety of London, featuring a full sky of stars and a sun. This shows that this world, and many others like it, features its own space, yet is still ignorant of other worlds.
Deep Jungle (look at globe to left of screen), Tarzan's world, possesses both a world globe and map of Africa (behind Sora and Tarzan), meaning it is technologically and socially advanced enough to know about space and proves that it exists in their world. This is due to the first globe being made far beyond the time of the Greeks and other civilizations that discovered the cosmos.
Essentially, bare minimum, each of the worlds contains a solar system, with at least Stitch's world containing a universe. However, regardless of this, it proves that the Ocean Between is not the same as the space each world calls their own, and is in fact a different dimension entirely, leading to all worlds, regardless of inner size, being pocket realities.
Further for the Ocean, Cid refers to it as "interspace" (stop at 12:25), putting it directly apart from normal space. The definition of interspace. Even Xehanort, in his second report, refers to the Ocean as "an outer space-like sea called a different sky" ("異空と呼ばれる宇宙空間のような海")
On to the world barriers themselves, they are referred to as being made of light by Xehanort in his 3rd report, and going back to the interview, in the second question again, are stated to be invisible shells. This is also where the creation of Gummi blocks is explained to be that broken shell of light, crashing down as meteors that settle into Gummi blocks on a planet.
When Sora appears on a world, he does not appear in space, but precisely on the planet that the heart of the world lies. The heart of a world is found inside a planet of the world, which Sora arrives at. Even when they fumblingly appear in a world (stop at 4:30), with barely any navigation due to childish fighting, they appear on the right world, with no space travel in between.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,182
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- Thread starter
- #47
The "sky full of stars" doesn't hold weight by itself given we just established before that those are just the light of the heart of the respective worlds, however, the sun should be legitimate given that it does behave like a sun, and otherwise we'd have to make assumptions on the light of the worlds acting like sunlight.
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Here are also some direct quotes from some novels
Olympus: displays Hercules throwing the titans into space
"Zeus took his son by the shoulders. “Thank you, my boy,” he said, then called bolts of lightning to his hands. “Hah! Now watch your old man work!” When the bolts struck the Rock Titan in both of its heads, the other Titans turned tail and fled. The Tornado Titan straggled behind the others, giving Hercules time to grab hold of its whirlwind body. He spun around and hurled it into the air, just like he had done to Sora, and the winds pulled its brethren along with it. When they reached the depths of space, they all exploded.pg 25"
In the same novel, the Ocean Between is noted by name, so just calling it space in this instant for Hercules is not a mistake:
"It had been quite some time since the three of them had ridden the Gummi Ship together, and the Ocean Between had undergone some significant changes since then. Now they had no idea where to go, and no signs to show them the way, either. “How’re we supposed to get there now?” Sora mused from the cockpit. “What? I thought you knew!” Donald griped, and kicked his feet in frustration. “Looks like all the old highways are closed. Didn’t Master Yen Sid say that Sora should trust the guidance his heart gives?” Goofy wondered idly He held up the Keyblade to the view of the Ocean Between before them, a light shot out from the blade and accessed the Lanes Between. “A gate!” Donald and Goofy cried out in unison.pg 14"
Ventus in the BBS novel sees a world with stars above it while traveling the Ocean between:
"Ven hurtled through the Ocean Between atop his Keyblade glider. Still no sign of Terra. Where could he have gone? Ven could see a radiant world in the distance with what appeared to be tiny fragments of stars afloat in it. A forest, a field of flowers, and—a hut…?pg50"
A world floats in space and is connected to the Ocean Between, meaning they aren't the same:
"MYRIAD STARS GLITTERED IN THE HEAVENS ABOVE A SMALL AND VERY SPECIAL WORLD—or perhaps it would be better to call it a fragment of one, directly connected to the Ocean Between. A tall, solitary spire rose from this island floating in space pg 167"
Ventus and Stich go into space, not the Ocean Between:
"Ven put on his armor and hopped onto his Keyblade glider. The two of them shot out into space at nearly the same time. But a group of fighters was immediately on 626’s tail. pg 133"
Worlds actually look like they do in the game as you approach; this means that the icons are representative of the world in its entirety, not just the planet the Heart of the world can be found on:
[“Is that what a world looks like from outside?” said Sora, fascinated. He’d never seen anything like it before. The world floating there in the Other Sky was covered in a heart pattern, and there were green arches and a castle. Somewhere he’d never been before—never even dreamed of. He wanted nothing more than to land there. Yep,” said Donald. “The worlds are all like this, floating here and there in the Other Sky.” pg82]
Another quote for Stitch for after he escaped imprisonment. This is when he is going to Earth and meeting Lilo, as explained in the ultimania, and as is noted, he only travels through his galaxy. Not the Ocean Between:
"Deep Space—where friendship had begun to sprout. A small spaceship sped through the expansive galaxy. Within the zero-gravity cockpit, a Wayfinder-shaped toy floated. “Fren…,” Experiment 626 murmured, then hugged the toy with great care. The ship flew off, carrying Experiment 626 into the far reaches of space." BbS novel, page 277
Olympus: displays Hercules throwing the titans into space
"Zeus took his son by the shoulders. “Thank you, my boy,” he said, then called bolts of lightning to his hands. “Hah! Now watch your old man work!” When the bolts struck the Rock Titan in both of its heads, the other Titans turned tail and fled. The Tornado Titan straggled behind the others, giving Hercules time to grab hold of its whirlwind body. He spun around and hurled it into the air, just like he had done to Sora, and the winds pulled its brethren along with it. When they reached the depths of space, they all exploded.pg 25"
In the same novel, the Ocean Between is noted by name, so just calling it space in this instant for Hercules is not a mistake:
"It had been quite some time since the three of them had ridden the Gummi Ship together, and the Ocean Between had undergone some significant changes since then. Now they had no idea where to go, and no signs to show them the way, either. “How’re we supposed to get there now?” Sora mused from the cockpit. “What? I thought you knew!” Donald griped, and kicked his feet in frustration. “Looks like all the old highways are closed. Didn’t Master Yen Sid say that Sora should trust the guidance his heart gives?” Goofy wondered idly He held up the Keyblade to the view of the Ocean Between before them, a light shot out from the blade and accessed the Lanes Between. “A gate!” Donald and Goofy cried out in unison.pg 14"
Ventus in the BBS novel sees a world with stars above it while traveling the Ocean between:
"Ven hurtled through the Ocean Between atop his Keyblade glider. Still no sign of Terra. Where could he have gone? Ven could see a radiant world in the distance with what appeared to be tiny fragments of stars afloat in it. A forest, a field of flowers, and—a hut…?pg50"
A world floats in space and is connected to the Ocean Between, meaning they aren't the same:
"MYRIAD STARS GLITTERED IN THE HEAVENS ABOVE A SMALL AND VERY SPECIAL WORLD—or perhaps it would be better to call it a fragment of one, directly connected to the Ocean Between. A tall, solitary spire rose from this island floating in space pg 167"
Ventus and Stich go into space, not the Ocean Between:
"Ven put on his armor and hopped onto his Keyblade glider. The two of them shot out into space at nearly the same time. But a group of fighters was immediately on 626’s tail. pg 133"
Worlds actually look like they do in the game as you approach; this means that the icons are representative of the world in its entirety, not just the planet the Heart of the world can be found on:
[“Is that what a world looks like from outside?” said Sora, fascinated. He’d never seen anything like it before. The world floating there in the Other Sky was covered in a heart pattern, and there were green arches and a castle. Somewhere he’d never been before—never even dreamed of. He wanted nothing more than to land there. Yep,” said Donald. “The worlds are all like this, floating here and there in the Other Sky.” pg82]
Another quote for Stitch for after he escaped imprisonment. This is when he is going to Earth and meeting Lilo, as explained in the ultimania, and as is noted, he only travels through his galaxy. Not the Ocean Between:
"Deep Space—where friendship had begun to sprout. A small spaceship sped through the expansive galaxy. Within the zero-gravity cockpit, a Wayfinder-shaped toy floated. “Fren…,” Experiment 626 murmured, then hugged the toy with great care. The ship flew off, carrying Experiment 626 into the far reaches of space." BbS novel, page 277
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Yeah, neverland in general was just meant to be my example of "the worlds have their own solar systems"
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For anyone interesed, the situation at the moment is as follow:
Agree: 11 (The_2nd_Existential_Seed, ThanatosX, Kingofwolves999, Nehz_XZX, ProfessorKukui4Life, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, Hizack123, Psychomaster35, ArmBill, Brak, Tipper17)
Disagree: 1 (Mr._Bambu)
Neutral: 3 (The_Axiom_of_Virgo, ElixirBlue, Joycap)
Might have missed some vote, but the general situation should be this.
Agree: 11 (The_2nd_Existential_Seed, ThanatosX, Kingofwolves999, Nehz_XZX, ProfessorKukui4Life, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, Hizack123, Psychomaster35, ArmBill, Brak, Tipper17)
Disagree: 1 (Mr._Bambu)
Neutral: 3 (The_Axiom_of_Virgo, ElixirBlue, Joycap)
Might have missed some vote, but the general situation should be this.
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Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Oh, I should've posted it here, too.
docs.google.com
I have no idea if this is excessively relevant. I'll go through the evidence posted above at some point, I don't have time right now.
Debunking Bob's KH Revisions
The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...
docs.google.com
I have no idea if this is excessively relevant. I'll go through the evidence posted above at some point, I don't have time right now.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Before I go, I will note that of the agrees and disagrees, the following is also a relevant statistic.
Agree: 11 (1 Calc Group Member)
Disagree: 1 (1 Admin)
Neutral: 3 (1 Content Mod)
Other staff should very well come look.
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I wanted to write the staff members in a different font to evidence them, but I don't know how to do it so I prefered not to. But yeah, the staff situation is 1-1-1.
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That’s the one from GiverOfThePeace, yes?Oh, I should've posted it here, too.
Debunking Bob's KH Revisions
The blog gets updated ever so much so I’ll update too when I have the time. Link to blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Bobsican/KH_Low_2-C_Feats “As we all know ever since KH3D, Joshua and Riku confirm that every single world has its own flow of time ("So what? That's true o...
I have no idea if this is excessively relevant. I'll go through the evidence posted above at some point, I don't have time right now.
I’ll respond to it as well, but it will take a while.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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I didn't receive it from that user, no. It's entirely possible that it is written by them, I just feel that 10 pages of rebuttals from a person who ostensibly actually knows the verse should probably be looked at.
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I had a discussion about that blog on Discord and I was told that it was from GiverOfThePeace.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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Again, it's possible he made it. He just wasn't the one to pass it along to me. Given the individual who did write it has a better knowledge of the verse than I, I feel it should be submitted before moving forward as well.
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I didn't say that he was the one who gave it to you. I simply made a mention of me having heard of that blog elsewhere and what I was told about it. Submitting the blog here does make sense.
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This seems to make sense to me but I guess we are waiting for the potential debunk
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Sorry, but, this is flat out wrong. The Grand Council Woman was never stated to 'oversee the universe' but the galaxy. I'm really curious where this misconception comes from, so please post the source for this one.
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,759
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Super late, but I agree
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,182
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- Thread starter
- #74
It's stated that way in the in-game entry over the character, which is of a narrative standpoint, check the "Journal" section in the KH Wiki page.
This is also consistent with something the debunk blog will mention later.
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Bruh
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True, but that just means there is an entire organization of life forms that oversees their universe. And they are still unknowledgeable of other worlds.
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The debunk to the Google Doc that Mr. Bambu posted is still under way, but overall the points above seem to be agreeable to others.
So I guess it’s just waiting to give Bambu the debunk to that doc to alleviate his worries.
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