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Thing is that a fraction of 2-A power is still 2-A power, so teamwork being required to counteract it just means that they'd downscale if anything, tier 2 works differently from lower tiers on this regard, as we're dealing with infinities and all here, rather than a finite value whose division would yield lower finite values (like how a team defeating a 5-B together may downscale to Low 5-B individually). Consider it like how being above a Low 2-C won't make someone jump another tier (say, 2-C), but in the other way around. If they were below enought to not scale at all they'd just have been quickly stomped.Ok, to start, I agree that the 2-B to 2-A structure makes sense, but what I disagree with is the scaling.
First, Kairi's right, True KH never unleashed its true power, because that would have meant that Xehanort won and succeded in rewriting the world (I say world, but you get what I mean).
Xehanort is definitely tapping into the KH for his powers and to amp himself, and so does the X-Blade, but there's no evidence he is using ALL of the KH's power, which is what would allow him to rewrite reality.
This is kind of a wiki rule that has been brought up before in other revisions, i.e. that just tapping into a power source doesn't make you scale to it fully unless we have evidences of it.
The fact that each time all the heroes also need to work together, combine their force and etc.. just to prevent the KH from being used in the first place kind of contradicts them scaling to the entirety of it.
And if the X-Blade, and several other characters in the series were already 2-A, why would they have had the need to summon the KH in the first place?
This wold be the ideal option, because some powers belong to or are effects of the darkness itself, and others come from the characters manipulating it
This is true, but it isn't the case here. The manipulation of darkness may allow you to achieve specific effects, but there's no reason to assume everyone who manipulates darkness has access to them automatically.
They are something inherent or basic to learn/do, but we don't know if it's the same even for all the other possible applications.
Makes sense, also because if we think of it as a striclty "in-verse indexing" there's no reason to make it limited, since Hearts are basically the source of everything.
This is different from someone actively absorbing the keyblade or its user. This is just unrelated to absorption as an ability.
With sending her away I meant allowing her to reach destiny island through fate shenanigans when she was in danger.
But my whole point is that if Aqua's spell is still working, then sure, we can consider is as "current" fate manipulation (although blessed works better) otherwise we shouldn't consider that bit as thing that still lasts (the other fate stuff is ok, however)
This isn't true.Thing is that a fraction of 2-A power is still 2-A power
Bump.
I may as well mention another minor power to evaluate...
Currently we accept the Nil element as Void Manip, which is quite self-explanatory as it's Xemnas' main element, which is nothingness (and fits with what the term "nil" means), and has the effect of ignoring defenses when dealing damage.
Given that Xion's Ragnarok is a nil-type move, and it's inherited from Sora, I think they should get this out of the above. Xion even has this already, albeit with no justification right now.
If the game treats it that way way, then it should be fine. Xion's profile already mentions that the Durability Negation is done with the Nil Element and it also says that Ragnarok deals nil-elemental damage under Notable Attacks and Techniques.
You're welcome.Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.
True Kingdom Hearts has power over all hearts which means that it has power over all worlds and the infinite space between them known as the Ocean Between and Xehanort has visibly been making use of its power in his fight against Sora, Donald and Goofy with it being stated at the end that Kingdom Hearts could erase and restart the entire cosmology of the verse. It is also argued that the X-Blade would derive its power from True Kingdom Hearts due to being tied to it as its guardian and being as old as it and Keyblades which have been created based on the X-Blade deriving their power from their wielders' hearts.Can someone sum up the arguments and ideas relating to 2-A scaling?
I don't have any knowledge on the context of the verse, I was just pointing out a faulty argument relating to the tiering system.but there's still the matter that there's no reason to claim that Xehanort was holding back with it, especially when True KH was still threatening to erase the cosmology, and in the context of stopping that, doing that as a team can't be in a lower tier than 2-A, given that everyone's portrayed as significantly helping on stopping it, and it even works.
Basically that a infinite space that could hold infinite universes (Even if there aren't that many universes within it) render it no different from a 2-A structure.Nehz last post above seems to make sense to me, but can somebody provide a better explanation why all worlds means infinite universes please?
Nehz last post above seems to make sense to me, but can somebody provide a better explanation why all worlds means infinite universes please?
Basically that a infinite space that could hold infinite universes (Even if there aren't that many universes within it) render it no different from a 2-A structure.
This already has precedent with Anos and Ultima's fine with it as the blog cites.
That doesn't seem reliable to me. We consider the 5-D distance between universes in a multiverse to be unquantifiable as a praxis, which is why many of the Dragon Ball characters are not 2-B for being thousands of times stronger than characters that can destroy universes.
@Ultima_RealityThing is that it's an actual physical space that could encompass infinitely-many of those worlds, and not just an empty void with nothing to destroy in the first place, like it is in most verses, so whether or not universes fill it entirely shouldn't be relevant, as Ultima said here on a fairly similar case.
If in doubt feel free to ping him here.
Monstro is one thing since it is a living being in the Ocean Between with an admittedly weird inner layout but Destiny Islands? I'm pretty sure that we would consider that world to have a sun. Is there anything in particular that would contradict it being a universe?Every world is not a universe. Some are and some aren’t. There’s many that are universes, but then you have stuff like Monstro or Destiny Islands.
Nehz already covered it, plus the blog already explains semantics that heavily imply that they're universes. Japanese is a language that relies on context, and to just take it to mean "planet" when plenty of lore goes against that is quite counterproductive to say the least. If you're going to refute that go point by point why you disagree with what's presented than to just claim so.Every world is not a universe. Some are and some aren’t. There’s many that are universes, but then you have stuff like Monstro or Destiny Islands.
I buy 2-C to 2-B, as Xehanort was indeed gonna wipe the entire cosmology, but no higher than that. Infinite space between is uni+ at best.
@DontTalkDTGiven that Ultima is still in hiatus out of IRL stuff (Which is understandable and all), perhaps @DontTalkDT could be pinged by an staff member to comment on the 2-A cosmology? It doesn't seem there's concerns over the scaling in itself at this point, other staff knowledgeable on 2-A semantics are also welcome, of course.
I may as well summarize its arguments, especially when the 2-B stuff is accepted at this point:
Every "World" is a universe, with the space between them being regarded as an hyperspace of infinite size, and so it's a different kind of infinity than the one within a universe.
Thus, the argument for 2-A relies on that its durability as a whole would be no different from a theoretical infinite number of Worlds (universes) if the 2-B stuff is accepted as well (Which is at this point), out of being an actual, physical space that could encompass infinitely-many of those worlds, and not just an empty void with nothing to destroy in the first place, like it is by default, so whether or not universes fill it entirely shouldn't be relevant.
This fits well to 2-A in the same manner Maou Gakoin and Pokémon rely on similar semantics for 2-A (partially for the latter), and even Ultima appears to be fine with this standard so far.