Kingdom Hearts 2-B and 2-A Upgrades Conceptual Mix

[Antvasima]

@Ultima_Reality @KingPin0422

Do you have the time and energy to evaluate Bobsican's last post above?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm going to summarize the talk with DT:

- The space between universes indeed is assumed to be 5-D, however, significant proof over all of its axises being of significant size would be required for Low 1-C by significantly affecting it or similar as we'd do for other spaces. In any case it seems that's up to debate and he seems to lack the time to evaluate that, but Ultima does find it weird that a statement over such space being "infinite" not being enought, out of how we don't assume that a statement over a space being infinite isn't defaulted to only one of its axises, but rather just all of them.

- 2-A appears to be fine by the same proposed reasons as before and he agrees with that.

- He's yet to reply on whether universes with no 5-D space between them would fall as just Low 2-C regardless of the number, but he did mention they'd be "Tier 2".

Therefore, may I ask that @Ultima_Reality shares his thoughts on the remaining points in lack of better options? I'd ask @KingPin0422 as well, but I'm aware he's recovering from IRL stuff.

I mostly agree with what Ultima said in this comment (except I just find the assumption for space between universes to be straight bs. It's most often just treated as a void or whatev).

However I don't mind 2-B nor 2-A.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Bobsican where do I start from?

 

[Bobsican]

@Bobsican where do I start from?

Here, namely regarding the Low 1-C stuff based on significantly affecting all the space between universes, which is stated to be infinite, and inherently assumed on the site to be 5-D as said before. Semantics on whether universes without 5-D space are Low 2-C regardless of the number is quite irrelevant for this CRT now.

I'll also mention that in this case the stuff that encompasses the 2-B cosmology is regarded as an infinite space, so Yuri's concern on that regard should be covered, respectively, especially with DontTalk also backing up that standard of a 5-D space being virtually always a thing between universes for our purposes.

I'd also recommend to check the talk with DT to ensure that nothing's being missed, especially if anyone wants some scans and all.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Here, namely regarding the Low 1-C stuff based on significantly affecting all the space between universes, which is stated to be infinite, and inherently assumed on the site to be 5-D as said before. Semantics on whether universes without 5-D space are Low 2-C regardless of the number is quite irrelevant for this CRT now.

I'll also mention that in this case the stuff that encompasses the 2-B cosmology is regarded as an infinite space, so Yuri's concern on that regard should be covered, respectively, especially with DontTalk also backing up that standard of a 5-D space being virtually always a thing between universes for our purposes.

I'd also recommend to check the talk with DT to ensure that nothing's being missed, especially if anyone wants some scans and all.

I read it and also read a lil bit of the blog. And yeah that’s not low 1C
Saying all space between universe is 5D is plain wrong and it should be a case by case basis depending on how it is stated by the verse
Nothing here states that it is a higher dimensional space.

Anyway I am also fine with the 2B and well “likely 2A”

 

[Bobsican]

There's no proposal for a "likely 2-A" on the thread as far I'm aware, just flat-out 2-A.

In any case, as DT mentions here, we do assume that the space between universes is inherently 5-D, otherwise there'd be no reason to make multipliers invalid in Low 2-C to jump to 2-C or above (which is a site standard), if anything the concern appears to be on whether all of its axises are of significant size for the purposes of Low 1-C, to which I already cite how it's regarded as an infinite space that's also regarded to be an "hyperspace" in relation to one of the many universes it contains

DT thinks that it may not be enought given that the matter on whether that includes all of its axises is unclear, but Ultima thinks it'd be odd to claim that given we default to that referring to all of them as much we don't default to whenever a universe is stated to be infinite to only refer to a single direction, and I agree with him, but we need further confirmation on either side.

 

[Elizhaa]

Way more supporting context is needed to prove Low 1-C, as DontTalkDT said. I am fine with 2-A, from what I read.

 

[Bobsican]

What kind of supporting context would be required? DT only mentioned one criteria left being up to debate or so.

 

[PrinceofPein]

There's no proposal for a "likely 2-A" on the thread as far I'm aware, just flat-out 2-A.

Then 2A is fine then

In any case, as DT mentions here, we do assume that the space between universes is inherently 5-D, otherwise there'd be no reason to make multipliers invalid in Low 2-C to jump to 2-C or above (which is a site standard), if anything the concern appears to be on whether all of its axises are of significant size for the purposes of Low 1-C, to which I already cite how it's regarded as an infinite space that's also regarded to be an "hyperspace" in relation to one of the many universes it contains

And like I said aboveboard assuming the space between universes is 5D is kind of wrong and should be a case by case basis and in this case it is not 5D. It been called infinite does not mean a thing might as well be a H3A space that encompasses many 3A spaces.

DT thinks that it may not be enought given that the matter on whether that includes all of its axises is unclear, but Ultima thinks it'd be odd to claim that given we default to that referring to all of them as much we don't default to whenever a universe is stated to be infinite to only refer to a single direction, and I agree with him, but we need further confirmation on either side.

You need further proof on your side that this is 5D and been called hyperspace does not mean much and also you linked the wrong scan in your blog

 

[Bobsican]

And like I said aboveboard assuming the space between universes is 5D is kind of wrong and should be a case by case basis and in this case it is not 5D. It been called infinite does not mean a thing might as well be a H3A space that encompasses many 3A spaces.

You need further proof on your side that this is 5D and been called hyperspace does not mean much and also you linked the wrong scan in your blog

Wouldn't that require a site-wide CRT? Currently that's the standard and we'd require something to claim otherwise. In any case, we already accept that such space contains a 2-B amount of universes, it'd also be safe to claim that it'd be an higher infinity given that it's regarded as an infinite space outside yet another infinite space (a universe), hence 5-D.

I should also mention that it wasn't the wrong scan, I just linked the section that explains everything, but if you want that scan in particular and all, just read the citations linked, in this case this one while we're on that, and before you ask, this "city" refers in context to the universe in which Disney Town is, with the Hyperspace being, well, the Ocean Between given that's where he ended up.

I'd argue further but I was notified of this being the main reason we don't rate the space between universes as a whole 5-D for the purposes of Low 1-C even if explicitly infinite, so if there's no objections by tomorrow or so, the current 2-B to 2-A stuff will be applied given its current acceptance.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I'd argue further but I was notified of this being the main reason we don't rate the space between universes as a whole 5-D for the purposes of Low 1-C even if explicitly infinite, so if there's no objections by tomorrow or so, the current 2-B to 2-A stuff will be applied given its current acceptance.

That makes sense to me.

 

[Sniper670]

Wouldn't that require a site-wide CRT? Currently that's the standard and we'd require something to claim otherwise. In any case, we already accept that such space contains a 2-B amount of universes, it'd also be safe to claim that it'd be an higher infinity given that it's regarded as an infinite space outside yet another infinite space (a universe), hence 5-D.

I should also mention that it wasn't the wrong scan, I just linked the section that explains everything, but if you want that scan in particular and all, just read the citations linked, in this case this one while we're on that, and before you ask, this "city" refers in context to the universe in which Disney Town is, with the Hyperspace being, well, the Ocean Between given that's where he ended up.

I'd argue further but I was notified of this being the main reason we don't rate the space between universes as a whole 5-D for the purposes of Low 1-C even if explicitly infinite, so if there's no objections by tomorrow or so, the current 2-B to 2-A stuff will be applied given its current acceptance.

I can't wait for Anos vs inserts kingdom Hearts character after this gets applied. Cancer, I tell ya

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I can't wait for Anos vs inserts kingdom Hearts character after this gets applied. Cancer, I tell ya

not the place to say that.
anyway

I agree for 2-A as per Ultima and DontTalkTD comments and response

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It might be worth mentioning for the sake of context that Kingdom Hearts (Entity) as well as Sora's Heartless would scale to the entirety of the main cosmology which consists out of the Realm of Light, the Realm Between and the Realm of Darkness. 2-A comes from the sum of all worlds and the Ocean Between which are contained in the Realm of Light and the Realm Between. The Realm of Darkness is spatially isolated from the Realm of Light and the Realm Between to the point where special portals are needed to access it and it is considered equivalent to the Realm of Light. The Realm Between is considered to be between the Realm of Light and the Realm of Darkness though it isn't spatially isolated from the Realm of Light and can be accessed via the Ocean Between.

 

[Antvasima]

Way more supporting context is needed to prove Low 1-C, as DontTalkDT said. I am fine with 2-A, from what I read.

I agree with this.

 

[Bobsican]

In the meantime, we may as well apply this to the Universe criteria, to keep things solid and nothing is forgotten.

 

[Antvasima]

In the meantime, we may as well apply this to the Universe criteria, to keep things solid and nothing is forgotten.

@DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think about this? Would it be better to create a staff forum thread about it first, and if so, would you be willing to handle it?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally think it's fine to add that to the universe page, and I think it might have been proposed back around the same time it was first created. But it's likely staff members may have forgotten about it and might prefer a thread being made for an easy reminder, but I could make hopefully short and simple staff thread after my work shift.

Or, regular users also could make staff threads via staff permission. So if Bobsican once to get started ahead of time, he is allowed to make it and post it on the staff discussion board. In which I will be there as soon as possible.

 

[Bobsican]

Sure
Here's the thread

 

[Bobsican]

Sorry for the double post, but given that about a whole day has gone without objections and all, combined with the considerable acceptance of 2-B and 2-A and all, I'll go ahead and start applying the stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry for the double post, but given that about a whole day has gone without objections and all, combined with the considerable acceptance of 2-B and 2-A and all, I'll go ahead and start applying the stuff.

Okay. That is probably fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Sure
Here's the thread

Thank you. I will check.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, recent concerns have raised that given the cosmological upgrades and all, the dimensional travel of several characters should be upgraded to Multiversal, with those that can reach the Realm of Darkness to Multiversal+ given it's a 2-A structure outside the "main" 2-A structure most characters in the series are normally on.
This notably affects those that can use Corridors of Darkness or the Lanes Between as they can reach the Realm of Darkness, and those that have displayed the capacity to travel like so with a Keyblade (Most notably Sora).
I need some thoughts on this.

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I know, our Range standards are intended to be Interdimensional for travelling between different universes, whereas Multiversal+ is for those characters that can affect infinite universes at the same time.

 

[Bobsican]

So they'd just be within Interdimensional even if this goes up to going from a 2-A structure to another? In that case I suppose not many changes have to be done beyond justifications if that's the case.

 

[Antvasima]

If all they can do is to travel between different worlds, yes.

If they can actually destroy or recreate an infinite number of universes at the same time, they qualify for Multiversal+ though.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

If they can actually destroy or recreate an infinite number of universes at the same time, they qualify for Multiversal+ though.

That should be the case for True Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Antvasima]

Probably, yes.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd like to request that a bot automatically does the following edits on all pages in the verse that have the Tier Low 2-C category:

- Replace {{Low 2-C}} with {{2-B}}

- Replace "Universe level+" with "Multiverse level"

- Replace "Universal+" with "Multiversal"

These changes would quickly apply most of the revisions with no issue, as last I checked most pages actually rely on scaling to someone else in terms of justification, but of course I'd rather manually edit those that'd be 2-A after this.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think that Elizhaa, AKM, or Abstractions would be willing to handle such a task for you, and I don't have the available time or know-how.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think that Elizhaa, AKM, or Abstractions would be willing to handle such a task for you, and I don't have the available time or know-how.

Can't you use MassEdit?

 

[Bobsican]

I've used a bot in another wiki before, and I can say it isn't as hard as you may be thinking, especially for changes like this that aren't prone for false positives.
Like, you just filter the pages to edit (often by selecting a category or two) then specify the terms to replace, then just click a button to mass-edit.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Is this CRT gonna end yet?

 

[Bobsican]

It was already accepted, we're now on adding the stuff to the pages

 

[Antvasima]

We tend to only use mass-editing scripts for important revision projects that affect our entire wiki, not for verse-specific character statistics.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We tend to only use mass-editing scripts for importsnt revision projects that affect our entire wiki, not for verse-specific character statistics.

I mean, it doesn't harm anyone to use them for this situation tbh. I don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[Antvasima]

I can't force the very few staff members who both have Bot accounts and use this script to begin to apply regular revisions with them, especially after Promestein quit. Their time and energy should be reserved for when it is crucial.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, we can still politely ask the favor at least, they're just free to decline if so and all.

 

[Antvasima]

Why can't you do it yourself instead? They are busy with helping out with other wiki management tasks, and we cannot give you special treatment in this regard without other members demanding the same type of unnecessary extra work for our staff.

Your request has been officially rejected. Please do not continue to argue about it.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

I'd like to request that a bot automatically does the following edits on all pages in the verse that have the Tier Low 2-C category:

- Replace {{Low 2-C}} with {{2-B}}

- Replace "Universe level+" with "Multiverse level"

- Replace "Universal+" with "Multiversal"

These changes would quickly apply most of the revisions with no issue, as last I checked most pages actually rely on scaling to someone else in terms of justification, but of course I'd rather manually edit those that'd be 2-A after this.

If you want, i can help with this