Kanzaki Kaori vs Arturia Pendragon (Saber)

[Schnee_One]

Schro vote

 

[Xanxussama1010]

Well, guess nothing for me to say here more than Kanzaki FRA.

 

[Schnee_One]

So who doesn't Ship Touma and Kamzaki

 

[Dragopentling]

Schro vote

cue to place his vote? just wanna make sure

EDIT: one more vote for Busty Saint to go.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I personally ship Touma and Mikoto, but Kanzouma is second place for me

 

[Dragopentling]

So who doesn't Ship Touma and Kamzaki

I dunno yet.

I don't wanna disrespect Misaki, and Itsuwa is cute, too, because she doesn't just slap up and clap up Touma just from being embarassed.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Kanzaki FRA

 

[Dragopentling]

Whelp, btw.

Any comments on my choice of Battle Theme music?

 

[John985]

The picture you've posted is 7-B Arthur not 7-A, every time Arthur fought Herc, she's always 7-B.

And she's also injured because of Gae Bolg.

 

[Dragopentling]

The picture you've posted is 7-B Arthur not 7-A, every time Arthur fought Herc, she's always 7-B.
And she's also injured because of Gae Bolg.

Does the picture actually matter? I just wanted to use a picture of her to display that looked good EDIT: Nvm, you were responding to someone else

 

[John985]

Because you said she was stomped by Heracles, yeah she is. But she was 7-B everytime she fought him. Rin Saber didn't fought againts Heracles. Even though She was 7-B in her fight in in Einzbern forest, she was able to hold him off.

 

[Dragopentling]

7-0-2

Gonna wait for more input before starting grace period

 

[Schnee_One]

Kanzaki FRA

Grace started over 18 hours ago

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Considering it covers far more distance and she's far from perfect as she still got hit, yes

Hold up, I revisited the fight with Kojirou and she never got hit when she Instinct'd through Tsubami Gaeshi. Additionally, she was exploiting an opening far less forgiving than the ones she'd have moving through Nanasen.

I'm pretty confident that the wires would be a non-issue for Arthur.

Also how does Yuisen work? Is it pretty much a buffed-up sword strike?

 

[Schnee_One]

Which fight?

The first one she actively got hitsnd stumbled, the second Assasin had a broken sword

So no, she never truely dodged it.

Besides, dozens of borderline invisible wires surrounding Kamzaki by dozens of meters>>>>>Three sword strikes.

Yuisen is a sword slash yes

 

[Creaturemaster971]

The first time she got hit Kojirou's blade was undamaged, and Tsubami becomes literally spatially inescapable once utilized, and the novel specifically calls it out as being more of a guaranteed hit than Gae Bolg. She survived because of A-Rank luck. Additionally, she was under Shirou when this happened, so her parameters were lower.

The second time Kojirou's sword had such a minute dent in it that the opening she exploited was barely visible, and yet she darted through it with no damage or visible effort.

I don't think a bunch of wires would have a smaller margin of error than a slightly-nerfed deathtrap that bypasses space and dimensional placement.

Shifting my vote back to inconclusive for now.

 

[Schnee_One]

Define "Smaller margin of error"

Those wires aren't meant to attack her, they're meant to say "No U" to Saber getting close, which she can't.

Dodging only gets you so far if you're not bothering to hurt your opponent.

Also "Bypasses space and dimensional placement" is meant to represent Assasins gettingbthe technique, but it's still only 3 swords being swung. Comparing that to dozens of wires surrounding Kanzaki and instincts won't come into play

Also her being undamaged proves she got hit but blocked the attack, that causes keepaway, which is Kamzakis game

And if Saner uses Excalibur, Kamzaki counters with Yuisen which counters it and slices Saner in half.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Smaller margin as in, the wires clearly have visible space between them, whereas the dent in Assassin's sword was too small to even be perceptible by a normal human.

She's dodging as she moves toward Kanzaki to get within range to hurt her, she wouldn't just be dodging in place.

Gae Bolg twists causality to strike the heart, and Swallow Reversal is stated to be inescapable, even to those who can dodge Gae Bolg.

Swallow Reversal's space manip becomes impossible to block once executed, and Saber is specifically stated to have avoided being hit at all the second time she encountered it, because even her superior defense wouldn't have allowed her to block it.

If Yuisen is a sword strike, then once again all Saber has to do is keep from being hit, via Instinct precog, A-Rank Luck, superior experience, and the fact that she can dodge attacks that are one nearly-invisible opening away from being undodgeable.

 

[Schnee_One]

Dodging Warriors that surround your opponent that you have to cut through? Dodging has nothing to do with getting close, which she needs to do but can't as she has zero ranged options.

Yuisen can be ranged as well, as showcased by her fight against Acqua https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ow3dK8E6Otc 0-47

Also, she can't physically move while using her Noble Phantasm and is forced to be stationary with her magical output

Kanzaki repeatedly says no to Saber getting close with Omnidorectional wires, Saber uses Excaliblast, Lanzaki uses Yuisen and One *****, done.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

But I don't see any evidence that Saber couldn't just close the distance between her and Kanzaki, avoiding wires all the way via her ability to dodge attacks that are at least comparable, get into melee range, avoid Kanzaki's close-range attacks via the above reasoning, and wear her down with superior skill.

 

[VoidGoji]

Kanzaki managed to survive a fight against Acqua (He was holding back A LOT tho) but still. He is as skilled as Knight Leader, maybe even more skilled. Also, Kanzaki can pseudo-danmaku with her wires in 360 degrees around her + She would actually parry Saber's attacks if she somehow gets close.

 

[Schnee_One]

Because you have given zero reason how

They are stationary wires that surround her in an omnidirectional manner, she can not get by them without cutting them which restricts her movement and gives her an opening.

The moment she cuts down one to get close, Kanzaki creates more and backs up, Saber cuts more, Kanzaki backs up again and creates more

Her getting close involves having to run through the wires which is impossible without taking damage or cutting the wires which slows her down

Instead of repeating the process, she does a much more logical approach in using Excaliblast, she uses it, Kanzaki uses Yuisen and one shots

 

[Creaturemaster971]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I FORGOT ABOUT KANZAKI'S STATIONARY WEB THING

Dang it, you're right! Sorry, I thought she literally just whips her wires around to slash people with them. I completely spaced that aspect of Nanasen.

Alright, switching back to Kanzaki. Sorry if I ****** up grace period.

 

[Schnee_One]

Lol it happens dude

Thanks for the debate though, was kinda worried we'd miss a few points since your computer was f-ing up

Grace Period should still be good since you switched back

 

[Creaturemaster971]

No problem, it was fun.

 

[Dragopentling]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I FORGOT ABOUT KANZAKI'S STATIONARY WEB THING
Dang it, you're right! Sorry, I thought she literally just whips her wires around to slash people with them. I completely spaced that aspect of Nanasen.

Alright, switching back to Kanzaki. Sorry if I ****** up grace period.

Cmon, man, she was doing that move literally the first OP of the first season xDD

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well yeah, but she just the twisty-whippy thing, not the set-up-a-whole-razor-sharp-spoderweb-around-me thing.

 

[Schnee_One]

Grace is over BTW

 

[Schnee_One]

Grace is over BTW

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Anyone gonna add this or nah

 

[Peter1129]

I'll add it.

 

[Dragopentling]

I'll add it.

Thanks, man! I was too busy to do stuff beyond commenting on threads

 

[Peter1129]

Done

 

[Schnee_One]

Saber got screwed over hard by revisions

She went from 4-0 to 1-2

 

[VoidGoji]

What?

 

[Schnee_One]

Her win record used to be one of the greatest ones on this site.

Now due to literally all of her wins except for Archer (And Garen for some reason) being outdated, she lost said incredible record

 

[Dragopentling]

Her win record used to be one of the greatest ones on this site.
Now due to literally all of her wins except for Archer (And Garen for some reason) being outdated, she lost said incredible record

RIP-a-roo

 

[VoidGoji]

Her win record used to be one of the greatest ones on this site.

Now due to literally all of her wins except for Archer (And Garen for some reason) being outdated, she lost said incredible record

Which revisions? -q

 

[Schnee_One]

The NNT, Akame Ga Kill, Fairy Tail ETC revisions

 

[VoidGoji]

Oh, so a reverse outdating for her matches. Lel