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To Aru Majutsu no Index revision Part 1

FantaRin_The_First

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Alternative Title: This fanta should really focus on other things, lol [Part 1]


Hey, hey, fanta here. ToAru CRT here. Don't worry everything has been painstaking sourced... and heh. As a certain famous green muppet said, "Do or do not, there is no try". So i'mma doing this even if everything here is mistake, lol.


TLDR Stuff
  • High-Tier get upgraded from 6-C to 6-B
  • The magic of certain Magic-Using Mid-Tiers will downscales from High-Tiers via them having a likely baseline 6-B rating while having an at least 7-C rating; here is an example with a character named Oriana - ""8B Physically, at least 7C, likely 6-B with magic"
  • John Pen Index gets upgraded to full-on 6-B, possibly baseline 5-B, higher with Dragon's Breath, and Stiyl's Innocentius gives Stiyl's rune card magic a new rating via Innocentius matching Dragon's Breath and Innocentius being equal to 20,000 rune cards giving Stiyl's rune card magic a rating of High 7-A, possibly High 6-A, note, the possibly High 6-A rating will only be attached to profiles if Index's possibly 5-B rating gets accepted... and will likely be only attached to people who scale to Stiyl... which is a lot of folks
  • First Key Acqua is 2x more power than whatever rating Kaori/other high tier receives, Lighting God Thor's Arc Fusion Blades gets a High 6-B from a times ten to a 6-A rating through a 10x again via Mjölnir's support in the AP section of his Lightning God key (and gives Mjölnir's AP the same rating as well), and Level 6 Shift Mikoto... still retains the accepted multiplier and those who are affected by Level 6 Shift Mikoto's new rating will be made 6-C+ (edit: via scaling to her new Pe-Daihaseisai key)
  • Gabriel's AP-based ratings and tiering should note Sweep, therefore, they should be like this - "6-B physically, far higher with Sweep, 4-B with Astro in Hand" (Calc is screwed, so i'mma just remove anything about Sweep for now)
  • Due to math, scaling, and the usage of canon numbers, Umidori's ratings should be like this; [At least 9-C physically, 6-C with Bomber Lance, at least 6-B, higher with Extra Arms] and Kinuhata's Dura rating should be like this as an aftereffect; [at least 8-B normally, higher with Offense Armor, 6-B against nitrogen-based attacks]
Miscellaneous Stuff
  • Mikoto's AP gets upgraded from - At least 8-B physically, higher with Magnetism, at least 8-A, likely 7-C with Railgun, 7-B with Lightning Strikes - to - [At least 8-B physically, 6-B with Lightning Strikes, higher with Magnetism, far higher with Railgun]; furthermore, her durability should be become this - [At least 8-B physically, 6-B with Magnetism] via scaling to the high tiers - (edit: but only in a new Post-Daihaseisai key - and her base key will be name-changed to "Pre-Daihaseisai" and AP will be "At least 8-B physically, High 7-A with Lightning Strikes, higher with Magnetism, far higher with Railgun]; furthermore, her durability should be become this - [At least 8-B physically, High 7-A with Magnetism] via scaling to AP).
  • The AAA(s) should scale to whatever tiering Post-Daihaseisai Misaka Mikoto has
  • The Dark Matter that is utilized by Equ.DarkMatter and Sample Shoggoth Users should scale to Kakine's Dark Matter as they are literally the same thing and originate from the same source without any statement or implication that state they are weaker than Kakine's Dark Matter - Byouri's third key, Enshuu, and Kagun should be upgraded to match this upgrade, btw.
  • Kakine's physical durability should be comparable to Accelerator's AP as he could withstand being directly inside of a blast that came from both of them clashing with no notable injuries... oh, and Kakine's DM's AP, Dura, SS should be equal to it as well since it could clash equally against Accelerator's attacks and more than once overpower them.


Main Stuff
The mid-tier people and the high-tier people have consistent tier 7-to-tier 6 feats with the former being able to contend with the latter and the latter being mainly in the tier 6 range
Well, to make this short section short, well... Oriana's 7-C's rating will still matter, but...

It was stated [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 10 Chapter 6 Part 4] Oriana could kill a saint or two as long as she could set up an effective strategy and was ready to sacrifice her limbs but couldn't do so as she had a higher goal that a simple one-on-one battle couldn't offer and did not want to hurt anyone else after an earlier mishap.

Stiyl, after Kaori seemed to vanish into thin air, was given the task of beating Kaori by his superior [in To Aru Majutsu no Index Vol 7 Prologue] who has direct knowledge of both of their capabilities and still considered it possible for Stiyl to beat Kaori if pushed came to shove.

More notably, after getting some time to prepare, the Amasuka can prepare stuff to increase their defenses and improve their phsyical abilities to keep up with Acqua as shown [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 16 Chapter 2 Part 6] with Itsuwa with her increasing the durability of her spear and a defensive spell to weaken the damage she takes from said blows all to defend better against Acqua's blows, this is better exemplified [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 16 Chapter 2 Part 8] where she could keep up with a minor exchange with Acqua for a short period of time, and due to all of this [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 16 Chapter 2 Part 8 again] Acqua considered the Amasuka as a strong enemy and then delivered a blow onto Itsuwa faster than she could put up her defensive spell to weaken the damage.

Essentially, this is the more notable "evidence" in the idea a mid-tier magician can keep up with a high-tier person - i.e, proof for downscaling to 'em

Granted, there is a lot more people to add onto the evidence pile like the random shoes magician who could keep up with Kaori, the magician that Kaori met that tried to kill her with a tidal wave that also happened to destroyed 1/3 of an island, and so-on, but they are relatively unimportant characters, so yeah... section is over cuz I don't want to over bloat this.
As John Pen mode exists to prevent her from becoming a Magic God, 5-B at the very least to High 1-C at the very most, or to prevent others from becoming a Magic God which was info that has existed since the first novel [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 2 Part 2]; she should scale to some of the magicians within the high tier group like Leivinia Birdway, Hel, and Mjolnir as an extreme low-ball for John Pen Index's magical power and possibly even attach a possibly 5-B rating to it as well for her Magic God potential as that rating is where all of the magic gods and one failure of a magic god are.

Moving on for the topic above, it should be noted that it was stated [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 1 Part 6] that only a dragon called St. George’s Dragon could destroy a defensive item called a Walking Church which high-tier Kanzaki Kaori believed (and likely knew from previous first-hand experience) impervious to her attacks [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 2 Part 4] and Index's dragon breath spell [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 4] is referred to as the strike of the legendary dragon of St. George.

However, Stiyl was able to hold off and seemingly stalemate Index's Dragon Breath with a spell of his called Innocentius [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 4 again] which was stated to be powered by tens of thousands of magical rune cards that Stiyl uses for magical combat [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 1 Chapter 4 again again] - aka, we can derive a rating for Stiyl's magic through using the fact that Innocentius is powered by tens of thousands of rune cards and the power of Dragon Breath from John Pen Index to get the power of individual rune card for Stiyl's magic rating.

[Innocentius = 20,000 Rune Cards | AP rating of Dragon's Breath or John Pen Index's General AP rating / 1/20000 = AP rating for one of Stiyl's rune cards]
... Yeah, of course, even a series like Index that is mainly locked behind light novel has a few characters that have multipliers attached to 'em... Then again, multipliers are a decent way to measure strength in a way, which is very important for a series that has a limited amount of illustrations, but... Dropping this topic, kek.

Anways...

It has been stated [in Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 16 Chapter 4 Part 2] that Aquca of the Back-slash-William Orwell has an ability called Divine Mother’s Mercy that allows him as a Saint, a unique 'status' that belongs to a number of people in High Tier and is used as a measure sticking for power, to output 200%, or 2x, more power than a normal Saint, i.e someone like Kanzaki Kaori. That is about it.

[Note; Divine Mother’s Mercy, i.e the power that gives the 2x boost, is something that only William's first key has as his two other key don't have it due to the second key refers to the time where Acqua lost DDM and the third key refers to his as-of-now current status of having lost all of his special powers - sainthood and ddm - and is now just an "ordinary" magician. Should also mention that the gap between William and a normal saint isn't too big in the sense they can fight back against him, take his attacks, and even be acknowledged as strong by him but William will still be the overall superior fighter.]

There is a Thor in the verse, so there is obviously a Mjölnir as well... Essentially, when Thor has Mjölnir on hand, he has access to a spell that allows him to use a specialized lightning magic spell to form tiny lightning blades on his fingertips, and it has been stated he can draw power from Mjölnir to multiply their power and length from a stated minimum of tenfold to a maximum of hundredfold [in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 8 Part 2] - which was confirmed by a person fighting Thor, and by Thor quite literally using the words "times ten" and "times ten again" to power up his/Mjölnir's lightning magic.

[Note; this likely only applies to Lightning God Thor, who only fought Touma and only used this multiplier capability in said fight, and possibly Mjölnir as she is the power source for this multiplier but she has never actually used this multiplier on-screen, granted, her only fight with Kaori was entirely in the saint's pov so there is a possibly it was used but it was never stated or implied anywhere.]

And of course, I've to talk about Level Six Shift Mikoto's tiering with that form's own accepted Multiplier; for context's sake, when Mikoto first transformed into this transformation it was stated [in Toaru Kagaku no Railgun Volume 10 Chapter 62] to have dozens of times more firepower than her original output (or 24x Multiplier) by someone who's reliable and likely has access to information that would tell him how strong Mikoto was - and mind you this happened in the first moments of this form's existence, and not accounting the fact that L6S Mikoto has access to rapid accelerated development that makes her stronger as time passes.

[Note; those affected by this are -
  • Gunha: could flat-out no-sell first form L6S Mikoto's attacks and treat her as a non-threat until she evolved into her second form. Oh, he also met Ollerus, a 5-B, took two hit from him with the intent of defeating him with overwhelming power behind them but Gunha could get up from that and could engage with a holding back Ollerus in a prolonged but offscreen battle but nevertheless lost.]
... What it says at top. To explain, Sweep is a danmaku-like spell for... well... Gabriel. Context here. This Sweep spell has a variable AP rating that depends on a charging time. For a thirty second charge it has a High 6-A+ rating worth 19.9702138 Exatons of TNT and for a thirty minute charge it is 5-C rating worth 33.2836898 Exatons of TNT... yeah that is it.

Just a spell that is massively above Gabriel's normal AP that should be noted as far higher


kek. let's just forget about it entirely.
To explain this section, well... A Level 4 Esper named Kuroyoru Umidori learned how to game the "system" so-to-speak by attaching several hundred to several thousand tiny cyborg arms to her back to "power-up" her power, which allows her to create 3m spears of compressed nitrogen from her palms - which, well... substantially increased her power safe to say by virtue of her being able to make thousands of nitrogen spears at once, combine them into a single large spear, or... form a nitrogen pseudo-barrier that could deflect an attack.

And well for the latter... Umidori blocked a railgun from a machine called FIVE_Over Modelcase_"RAILGUN", which fires a substantially more powerful Railgun than one fired from Misaka Mikoto [in Toaru Majutsu no Index NT1 Chapter 5 Part 7], whose Railgun, if this crt is approved, is going to 6-B, but the Five Over is stated to be superior to hers.

To further add context for Umidori's feat - Umidori was slower in the draw because she got distracted by other person and got her several thousand arms reduced to several hundred arms but Umidori was still able to form a nitrogen pseudo-barrier that could deflect them... and well. yeah.

(Note - will assume that several hundreds means 900 as a massive low-ball)

[ Umidori's 900 Nitrogen Spears/Barrier = FiveOver's Railgun | AP Rating of FiveOver's Railgun / 1/900 = AP rating for one of Umidori's Nitrogen Spears]

[AP rating for one of Umidori's Nitrogen Spears * 1800 Destroyed Cyborg Hands + Umidori's 200 Nitrogen Spears = Umidori's Full Power] - ignore this, going to only note this via a higher rating

... Oh. And a girl named Kinuhata super tanked and deflected Umidori's spears with ease [in Toaru Majutsu no Index NT1 Chapter 5 Part 1]... due to the fact that they had the same power but Kinuhata super-hard focused on defense which rendered Umidori's attacks useless... but Umidori's cyborg arms even the field and allowed her to almost overcome Kinuhata's defense [in Toaru Majutsu no Index NT1 Chapter 5 Part 1]... keyword, almost. Kinuhata's defense power still held up [in Toaru Majutsu no Index NT1 Chapter 5 Part 5] to Umidori's full power due to their shared nature which cause her to not get any bruises or injuries from it and the only reason she didn't go after Umidori was simply because somebody much stronger than her showed up.
Miscellaneous Stuff
First off, I'll list down the calculated feats of Mikoto.
  • Mikoto once created a giant kaiju made out of iron sand that obtained a 8-C GPE, which netted a result of 0.333095409 tons, while the other kaiju that Mikoto's kaiju fought also had a 8-C GPE result, which was 0.406384388 Tons
  • Mikoto's Railgun caused 8-A worth of damage, which result was 559.02 Tons, while this typically feat would've not been important at first glance. The High Priest no-sold Mikoto's Railgun with a physical blow and Nephthys, a person who scales to The High Priest, physically attacked (and harmed) Accelerator
  • Mikoto had once created an oddly-shaped thundercloud that netted a 7-C+ result through the CAPE method, which is 64.5432026768642402 Kilotons if you are curious
  • Mikoto can causally fill the skies with (normal-looking) dark clouds to rain down lightning on people, i.e make generic storms, which gets a Low 7-B result at the very least, which is 2.40995597059316 Megatons via this calc
  • Lastly, Mikoto performed a High 7-A cloud feat in the first few chapters of the Railgun manga, which is 3.70900117 Gigatons, (un)surprisingly enough
Should state this for everyone, all of the calculated feats for Mikoto here are all casual feats of hers that didn't take too much effort for her to do. Yes. this applies from the 8-C Feat to the High 7-A feat.

As for why this is important, well... There is an argument for Mikoto to scale to the high-tier people via Mikoto's battle with a Mid-Tier person named Brunhild Eiktobel. Through this battle, stopped one of Brunhild's attacks, Mikoto harmed Brunhild, entered a struggle with her electromagnetism vs Brunhild's sheer strength, seemingly earned Brunhild's respect by her considering consider Mikoto to be an opponent worthy of being spoken to, attempt to sword clash with her and then opted to use her railgun on her [in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 7 Part 7].

And everything above was being watched by Thor and Silvia - with the former seemingly happy at what he was seeing and torn at praising Academy City at creating Mikoto or praise Brunhild for still keeping her immense speeds and the latter, after seemingly killing Thor, immediately deciding that she had to interfere in Brunhild and Mikoto's one-on-one fight by making it into a 2v1 fight to finish it quickly [both in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 7 Part 7 again].

And no. The text after the battle reached a premature conclusion that resulted in all four fights in stopping after Touma punched someone into unconsciousness again doesn't imply Brunhild held back, but only stopped since there was no reason to keep on fighting [in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 7 Part 14].

Additionally, it should be mentioned that Thor specifically sought out Mikoto's help as he considered her to be useful in the fight meant to be holding back Silvia and Brunhild while Touma did his thing [which was in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 7 Part 3]. He also had a general idea of what they could do, or at the very least, had a faint idea of their monstrous power [as stated in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 6 Chapter 6 Part 12].

Should also mention the topic of Mikoto's railgun while I can. Basically, it is a move that she holds in her regard and perhaps even considers it her strongest move.

As shown in the fight with Brunhild, that was the move she opted to use after seeing Brunhild overpowering her electromagnetism and was the move that likely caused Thor to smile and be torn on which one he should compliment - adding onto this, we know that it was very likely that Brunhild hadn't no-selled or stopped Mikoto's railgun because... of High Priest.

As shown in that encounter [in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 13 Chapter 2 Part 2] when Mikoto immediately gets shaken and loses the bravado she'd earlier when he no-sold her Railgun, later on she was still incredibly shook after seeing what high priest could do and was shook up even more when Touma still had the resolve to continue fighting back as he could barely stand up to High Priest but she considered herself worse as she couldn't reach his level and doubt she could even with her prized Railgun, aka, she considers her Railgun her best benchmark of better than anything else she has [as seen in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 13 Chapter 2 Part 10].

Now, let's move onto the next important thing that happened to Mikoto in the Index novels; her encounter with Salome. To sum it up, Salome can be considered a sort of (weapon) power absorber in where she can absorb the powers of weapons she destroys as shown when she absorbed the power of an iron sand sword and several things Mikoto threw at her as a weapon but couldn't absorb Mikoto's lightning - but she could absorb Mikoto's railgun... which made Mikoto excited beyond words and considered Salome as the stimulus she needed to reach the next stage of power as she fully considered Salome to have her full power as Academy City’s #3 after they had absorbed her railgun and wanted to see how further Salome could go [and this all happened in To Aru Majutsu No Index New Testament Vol 15 Chapter 2 Part 6]

And the most important - and recent thing - that cements the idea of Mikoto considering her Railgun as something greater than anything else she has is... her encounter with Anna. She was flat-out afraid of seeing her Railgun failing against a magic user again so she sent out a lightning spear (which was powered up by her A.A.A] instead as if she considered it much less when compared to her railgun [this is in To Aru Majutsu No Index Genesis Testament Chapter 2 Part 2], was frustrated and humiliated that her Railgun did nothing to Anna [this happened in To Aru Majutsu No Index Genesis Testament Chapter 2 Part 5], and despite that Mikoto still considered her railgun the best move she could've used against Anna when everything was looking bleak and were going to be killed as Anna ran out of patience for them [in To Aru Majutsu No Index Genesis Testament Chapter 2 Part 6].

Therefore, Mikoto's AP should be listed as [At least 8-B physically, (High Tier Rating) with Lightning Strikes, higher with Magnetism, far higher with Railgun] for the things she done in her battle with Brunhild - and Mikoto's Dura should be noted as [At least 8-B physically, (High Tier Rating) with Magnetism] for being able to stop Brunhild's blow and could briefly hold one blow in place.
In the later parts of ToAru NT, Misaka begun to undergo a dark character arc in where she was obsessing over a way to get stronger and have more power after getting casually brushed aside and treated as a burden to Touma in the "fight" with High Priest which showcased to her that she was weak and then later getting into another fight with Salome who countered her abilities but showed her that her own abilities weren't enough and thus Misaka gained the (dark) resolve to grow stronger no matter the cost.

... Until reality kicked in and slapped her in the face and once again showed her that her own powers aren't enough, lol... but when she found an AAA and used it for the first time, she was convinced that it was the way to go and that the A.A.A was "that would take her to the next stage she hoped for" that her own powers couldn't [as stated in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 15 Epilogue]

Note, there are three Anti-Art Attachment in the verse. The original wielded by Noukan (& Mikoto), the one wielded by Mikoto herself, and the one that was created and wielded by Noukan's student, Yuiitsu. And the A.A.A that made Mikoto feel that she had hopes of not being left in the dust via the series power creep was Noukan's Anti-Art Attachment - and the one wielded by Mikoto is the same as Noukan's but is modified for her own use

Should also mention that in a passing thought of Qliphah Puzzle 545, Accelerator's squid daughter, she was confident that it could hold its own against the Golden magicians, people who at the very least are likely comparable to Aleister Crowely, although she added that it might not be able to actually deliver a finishing blow likely accounting for their own immortality and regeneration that the A.A.A can't bypass [as stated in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 21 Chapter 2 Part 4].

And it was mentioned in passing by Othinus that folks during the height of the Coronzon Arc was interested in the A.A.A that Misaka used and saw more hope in the unexpected reinforcements (i.e, Misaka, her A.A.A, and Misaki) than in their own stable forces (which includes Kanzaki, Elizard, Knight Leader, and other people) [as stated in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 22 Chapter 2 Part 2]. Also... Uh... A literally nameless female blond knight thought of A.A.A-using Misaka as super-strong [as stated in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 22 Chapter 1 Part 6]... Not really important per-say, but said knight likely knows about the "strong" people that were walking around during the height of the Coronzon Arc (and likely knows a bit about of 'em considering she's taking care of Carissa's horse and Knight Leader is her boss), so her acknowledging Misaka as super-strong helps a little bit. Probably.

As for Noukan and Yuiitsu's AAA(s)... Again, Misaka's AAA is just a modified version of Noukan, and his A.A.A bought that reaction out of her, therefore, they should be comparable to one another. As for Yuiitsu's... Well, she is still Noukan's student and knows about its power, and while it doesn't have that Aleister connection, it was still made in mind to defeat Kamisato who defeat Noukan's A.A.A (and likely has a general idea of the power of Misaka's AAA), so they should likely be in the same ball park [all of this was stated in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 16 Chapter 4 Part 1].

Before I forget, I should mention Misaka's AAA was also able to fight with Index's John Pen Mode in relatively 'even grounds" for some time... So they both scale to each other, I think? AP-wise for Misaka's A.A.A and DURA-wise and AP-wise via Magic for John Pen Index. Also, because I can't put this anywhere else, the A.A.A's armor is likely comparable to its AP as Yuiitsu couldn't think of any defense greater than the A.A.A, which is actually helpful since she made that comment after observing the aftermath of Kamisato and Noukan's battle and her own knowhow of her teacher's combat ability [this happened during To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 15 Between The Lines 2].

Therefore, the A.A.A(s) shouldn't be weaker than Mikoto's base abilities as it narratively wouldn't make sense for her to use something that is weaker than her... That isn't even stating all of the thing stated above.
... To sum it up, there is a person Kakine Teitoku who has the ability named Dark Matter that allows him, in simple terms, to create whatever the hell he wants, and for the later parts of ToAru's first series up until the fifth novel of ToAru's second series he was reduced into a pile of organs stuck inside of a life support refrigerator so he can be used to create technology that can produce Kakine's Dark Matter until he was freed.

... And it (obviously) was successful endeavor since, well...

There is a character named Kihara Byouri who has tech implanted into her body that allows her to have the ability to use Kakine's Dark Matter for her own purposes [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 4 Period.21] and even transformed her entire body into Dark Matter [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 4 Main 30]. Heck, it was explicitly stated by the author [in the author's afternotes at the end of the novel] that Byouri could use Kakine's power.

[There is also a guy named Kihara Kagun who had fought, stabbed his right arm into a transformed Kihara Byouri's head, and defeated her in a mutual kill [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 4 Period.32], and a girl named Kihara Enshuu, who crushed the entirety of Byouri's upper body with her bare fists and even after she transformed Byouri thought it was safer for her to hide lest she gets attacked [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 4 Main 30]; also, during Kagun's encounter with her he determined that he couldn't defend against her attacks as they exchanged fists [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 4 Main 12].]

Lastly, there is a thing called Sample Shoggoth that was unintentionally used by a girl named Patricia Birdway and then intentionally used by a woman named Kihara Yuiitsu. Sample Shoggoth was first suspected by a character named Kamisato Kakeru to be discolored Dark Matter [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 14 Epilogue], and it was later confirmed by Yuiitsu herself [in To Aru Majutsu no Index NT Vol 15 Between The Lines 4]

So, ye.

Equ.DarkMatter and Sample Shoggoth Users should scale to Kakine Teitoku's DM in his second key. As that key accounts for the time he was stuck in a refrigerator and after he explicitly mastered his power and got much stronger than before. Meaning, their AP, SS, and DURA should be At least 7-B, possibly 6-C like Kakine's second key... which should change if the upgrades to mikoto goes though (or via accel), kek. Nuff said, though.
Kakine Teitoku smiled and spread his wings.

“This space which has been affected by foreign bodies is no longer the world that you know!”
Faced with this taunting, Accelerator controlled the air flow and made four tornadoes behind him.

Clash!

Accelerator’s tornadoes swept away Kakine’s wings, and Kakine’s wings blew apart Accelerator’s tornadoes. The buildings which were made of steel beams and cement were trembling from the blast waves and shook continuously. Suddenly, the two were no longer where they had been. The two of them continuously attacked each other, moving in parallel down the main road at an extreme speed. Occasionally they flew towards a windmill electricity generator, and other times they kicked streetlights away, flying down the road at a frightening speed.

“Even though I’ve finally snatched the Tweezers, studied the Underline, and planned many other things, none of them worked. Guess killing you, the #1, is the fastest and most efficient method.”

Kakine said while waving his wings that spanned several tens of meters long.

“What? You maggot, you’re still on about rankings at a time like this?”

“This has nothing to do with rankings! I only want the right to directly speak with Aleister!” Accelerator ignored Kakine’s words and stomped on the gravel road, and then kicked the rocks that were sent flying up using a karate kick.

Boom! A loud explosion rang out.

The vectors of the pebbles were changed and fired off faster than a Railgun, but vanished after a few millimeters. However, the pressure waves did not vanish, and the attack felt as if it would tear the very air apart. But, Kakine also put strength into his wings and scattered the attack. The waves of attacks between the two clashes against one another, sent a ‘tsunami’ of air throughout their surroundings and blew streetlights and advertisement signs into the air.

“That bastard Aleister has many plans in place at the same time. Even if it's the most promising plan for him, once he finds it doesn’t work he’ll immediately switch to another plan. Then when the time is right, he’ll go back to the original plan. Just like a spider web, no matter which path you choose sooner or later you will end up back on the same path.”

Accelerator and Kakine who were flying parallel down the road suddenly changed paths and chose the shortest route to smash into each other. A four-lane crossroad was blocked completely due to the clash between those two. Nobody complained, and nobody dared to complain. Everyone here had the instinct that if they dared to speak up they would die.

The silhouettes of the two swept past each other.

A few seconds later, the air exploded and a shock-wave rang out.

“If that’s the case then there is only one efficient path to take. Destroy all other plans that are prepared, so that Aleister has no other path to take. Then, as long as I’m not the spare plan, as long as I am the center of the plan, then Aleister can no longer ignore me! I don’t want to destroy this city, it is still useful. That’s why I’ll start from devouring the core, and in the end take control of it!”
Accelerator’s and Kakine’s blood flew around the air.
- Toaru Majutsu no Index Vol 15 Chapter 5 Part 3
... Simply put, Kakine's Dark Matter could match Accelerator's attack and his body could handle being in the blast range of Accelerator's attacks, not die, and only get light injuries for it while fighting in a life-or-death battle with neither side intending to let the other live. That's about it. So short I figured it was a waste to make a pastebin.

Therefore, Kakine's physical durability should be equal to Accelerator's second key's AP, which is At least 7-B, possibly 7-A, but as stated before this will change if the upgrades to Mikoto goes though.

Note, Kakine's physical Attack potency and Striking Strength won't scale however as he doesn't physically attack somebody without his Dark Matter - either here or in his spin-off manga... and as his second key is him entirely being composed out of dark matter, he is 100% equal to his Dark Matter at that point.
Conclusion Stuff
[Main Stuff]
The high tiers should scale to the 22.7769679 Teratons of TNT 6-B feat since it is likely the most reliable way to measure Gabriel's AP.

The magic of the magicians in the mid tiers will both have a 7-C Rating and should scale to baseline 6-B, 7 Teratons, since one of their members considered themselves capable of beating a saint, one of them considered it possible to kill a saint or two with heavy lost and a good plan, and one of them could take a beating from the top dog of the high tier group.

John Pen Index gains a solid 6-B rating (to account for her being in the same level as the other high tiers as an extreme low-ball) with a possibly 5-B rating (account for her Magic God potential), and higher with Dragon's Breath (to account for it being stronger than her other spells). All Mid Tiers and High Tiers gain a possibly High 6-A (2.97200 Exaton of TNT) rating if Index's possibly 5-B rating is accepted, Mid-Tier gains a High 7-A (1.49776603 Gigaton of TNT) rating if the possibly 5-B rating and them downscaling to High-Tiers isn't accepted.

First Key Acqua just scales 2x to whatever rating other High Tiers have via DDM allowing him to output 200% more power than a normal saint. Mjölnir gives Lightning God Thor's Arc Fusion Blades a 10x-to-100x boost, therefore, LGT's Arc Blades should be listed as High 6-B (227.769679 Teratons of TNT) to 6-A (2.27769679 Petaton of TNT) via a Mjölnir's support rating in his AP section and won't scale to anybody else... besides a possibly rating for Mjölnir's AP as well. [Edit: Due to the existence of the Pre-Daihaseisai key, Level 6 Shift Mikoto and Gunha will scale to a value of 89.0160281 Gigatons due to the former's 24x multipler and her Pre-Daihaseisai key having an AP value of 3.70900117 Gigatons]

In Gabriel's profile it should note Sweep in its AP ratings-slash-tier ratings as well... 6-B physically, far higher with Sweep, 4-B with Astro in Hand

Umidori should get some new ratings due to... well, this;

(Note - will assume that several hundreds means 900 as a massive low-ball)

[ 22.7769679 Teratons (AP rating for FiveOver Railgun's railgun) / 1/900 (Umidori's 900 Nitrogen Spears) = 1.05887593e20 joules, or 25.3077421 Gigaton of TNT (Island level) [6-C] {AP rating for one of Umidori's Nitrogen Spears}

[6.26665309e20 joules (AP rating for one of Umidori's Nitrogen Spears) * 1800 (Accounting for the 1800 Destroyed Cyborg Hands) + 1.25333062e23 joules (AP rating for 200 Nitrogen Spears) = 1.25333062e24 joules, or 299.553207 Teraton of TNT (Umidori's full power)] - scratch that, just note it with a at least 6-B and a higher rating attached to her extra arms

Therefore, Umidori's ratings should be like this; [At least 9-C physically, 6-C with Bomber Lance, at least 6-B, higher with Extra Arms]

... Oh. And Kinuhata will receive a 6-B Dura rating against nitrogen-based attacks due to her power having caused her to survive being attacked by several thousands of Umidori's Bomber Lances at the same time, with little to no meaningful injury, due to the shared nature thingy

[Miscellaneous Stuff]

Due to Mikoto's performance in the fight with Brunhild, Thor's praise at her power, and Silvia's immediate choice of double-teaming Mikoto the instant she thought Thor was dead and only stopped once Thor revealed he was very much alive should mean that she scales somewhat to the High Tiers. Her AP section will be rewritten to be this [At least 8-B physically, 6-B with Lightning Strikes, higher with Magnetism, far higher with Railgun] and her dura section will be this [At least 8-B physically, 6-B with Magnetism] - (edit: but only in a new Post-Daihaseisai key - and her base key will be name-changed to "Pre-Daihaseisai" and AP will be "At least 8-B physically, High 7-A with Lightning Strikes, higher with Magnetism, far higher with Railgun]; furthermore, her durability should be become this - [At least 8-B physically, High 7-A with Magnetism] via scaling to AP).

The AAA(s) should scale to whatever tiering Post-Daihaseisai Misaka Mikoto has

The Dark Matter that is utilized by Equ.DarkMatter and Sample Shoggoth Users should scale to Kakine's Dark Matter as they are literally the same thing and originate from the same source without any statement or implication that state they are weaker than Kakine's Dark Matter - Byouri's third key, Enshuu, and Kagun should be upgraded to match this upgrade due to the latter's feat of piercing Dark Matter with his bare hands.

Kakine's physical durability should be comparable to Accelerator's AP as he could withstand being directly inside of a blast that came from both of them clashing with no notable injuries... oh, and Kakine's DM's AP, Dura, SS should be equal to it as well since it could clash equally against Accelerator's attacks and more than once overpower them.


Characters Affected


Voting Stuff
Agree: @Doggo (Disagrees with the Possibly 5-B rating; agrees with everything else), @eliaspower1234, @Excel616, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Tyranno223 (Disagrees with the Possibly 5-B rating; agrees with everything else), @God900, @XDragnoir, @Lonkitt, @Celestial_Pegasus, @KingTempest, @LuffyRuffy46307, @RandomGuy2345,
Disagree:
Neutral: @Churronzon,
 
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I am still reading but there is a clear error about Thor's multiplier.

10x10=100

That's why his blades went from 20m to 2000m, btw.
 
Hmm

Can you give their name, please? Just saying person doesn't really help.
High Priest swatted away the railgun; Nephthys scales to High Priest and kicked+tackled Accel. Almost certain that's what they're referring to.
Frick. I think that is just part of an earlier verison of the CRT that I just forgot to remove. Kek. Bound to happen I suppose.
Same boat as Doggo here. Index being "possibly 5-B" is a bit too iffy. Everything else seems good.
Understandable. Will add you to the list.
 
To start somewhere:
I have no idea why you used vaporization in the Terra calc, if it specifically said the palace melted.
I also have no idea why you think Terra survived one without his ability.
The supersonic bombers that had attacked Terra at the Palace of the Popes had been powerful, but to Terra it had all been one kind of attack and therefore easy to defend against with his “precedence”. It was only multiple attacks at once that he feared.
(Toaru Majutsu no Index - Volume 14)
And Terra tanked a fraction of Earth Blade power, so this scaling doesn't work anyway. It's like tanking an explosion from 500 meters away.

What the Star of Bethlehem stuff is concerned I have no idea where you get the idea from that it rose 10k meters in an applicable timeframe.
 
What the Star of Bethlehem stuff is concerned I have no idea where you get the idea from that it rose 10k meters in an applicable timeframe.
I thought PE calcs works as long as you make an object go from point A to point B even if it's only for a moment, and we do have statements in where the Star of Bethlehem was kept afloat by Fiamma's power (and the Index Controller) and once those two were gone the Star of Bethlehem started falling down on the Earth.
To start somewhere:
I have no idea why you used vaporization in the Terra calc, if it specifically said the palace melted.
I also have no idea why you think Terra survived one without his ability.

(Toaru Majutsu no Index - Volume 14)
And Terra tanked a fraction of Earth Blade power, so this scaling doesn't work anyway. It's like tanking an explosion from 500 meters away.
Said ability is activated through speaking and Terra was speaking with Touma and had no way of knowing when and where the Earth Blade was going to drop - while you could argue the others were dealt with via his ability, the very first one that dropped on him could be argued to be tanked in some way as he had neither the speed or prior knowledge to deal with it.
 
Ehhhh

I am against Index being 5B either, we could only do that if we had any way, shape or form of rating AAA Mikoto that high too as they fought to a standstill, but 5B isn't consistent for AAA Mikoto.

It's better to keep her JP Mode as well as the Walking Church scaling to Saint Tier (also, her dura without WC was never updated after Mikoto was updated in the last few CRTs, it's still 8B to 8A from the old AAA stats)

Te other thing I disagree with is Thor scaling to Mjolnir. We've seen Mjolnir fighting directly with Kaori but we know Thor wouldn't be able to do that as he is Touma Level, I guess the Arc Fusion Blades could scale but we know they need Mjolnir's supply to reach Silvia's level. Also, don't forget to update his multiplier from 20x to 100x
 
Ehhhh

I am against Index being 5B either, we could only do that if we had any way, shape or form of rating AAA Mikoto that high too as they fought to a standstill, but 5B isn't consistent for AAA Mikoto.

It's better to keep her JP Mode as well as the Walking Church scaling to Saint Tier (also, her dura without WC was never updated after Mikoto was updated in the last few CRTs, it's still 8B to 8A from the old AAA stats)
Understandable.... I also totally forgot PenDex fought A.A.A-Koto. kek.
Te other thing I disagree with is Thor scaling to Mjolnir. We've seen Mjolnir fighting directly with Kaori but we know Thor wouldn't be able to do that as he is Touma Level, I guess the Arc Fusion Blades could scale but we know they need Mjolnir's supply to reach Silvia's level. Also, don't forget to update his multiplier from 20x to 100x
Eh. I have a problem with this, though.

Again. He's GERMLIN representative combat member, noted to be especially skilled in direct combat when compared to other members of GREMLIN, and there is the fact he is stated to be the strongest member in GERMLIN if Othinus wasn't a Magic God, so it would be notably odd for him to be weaker than Mjolnir, whose's true purpose moreso shines as a magical item that can be used for anything than a fighter.

It should be noted that Almighty Thor doesn't strengthen him as it is never noted to boost physical stats and Lightning God Thor/Arc Fusion Blades are only available with Mjolnir's support in the first place as per Thor's own words... it also wouldn't be possible for Thor to be in the dark of Mjolnir's capabilities either.

Would a possibly rating work for you?
 
Eh. I have a problem with this, though.

Again. He's GERMLIN representative combat member, noted to be especially skilled in direct combat when compared to other members of GREMLIN, and there is the fact he is stated to be the strongest member in GERMLIN if Othinus wasn't a Magic God, so it would be notably odd for him to be weaker than Mjolnir, whose's true purpose moreso shines as a magical item that can be used for anything than a fighter.
The problem with that is that in his fight with Silvia it's even stated his arm would explode if he blocked her attack with it, so Kamachi clearly doesn't have Thor in the level this is implying.
It should be noted that Almighty Thor doesn't strengthen him as it is never noted to boost physical stats and Lightning God Thor/Arc Fusion Blades are only available with Mjolnir's support in the first place as per Thor's own words... it also wouldn't be possible for Thor to be in the dark of Mjolnir's capabilities either.
I thought he could use the AFBs by himself? He used them without Mjolnir when disguised as Mikoto, no?
Would a possibly rating work for you?
No, cause if we do then Touma and everyone else will also get a possibly Saint Tier, even tho that's bot consistent for Touma, Thor or anyone else that scales.

The only explanation is that Kamachi was either including Mjolnir's assistance in all of these or maybe the AFBs could scale to Mjolnir when not being supplied by and then even higher when supplied.
 
I thought he could use the AFBs by himself? He used them without Mjolnir when disguised as Mikoto, no?
Nope.
“This is all I have. From beginning to end, it’s nothing but this. With Mjölnir’s support, I can add in the fusion blades and make it a little more acrobatic, but this is all I have now. To be blunt, this is your chance. You’ll never have a better opportunity.” - Thor
Plus, Marian and Mjolnir were already in Academy City by that point and as seen in the Silvia fight Mjolnir can send power to Thor from a large distance away.
The problem with that is that in his fight with Silvia it's even stated his arm would explode if he blocked her attack with it, so Kamachi clearly doesn't have Thor in the level this is implying.

No, cause if we do then Touma and everyone else will also get a possibly Saint Tier, even tho that's bot consistent for Touma, Thor or anyone else that scales.

The only explanation is that Kamachi was either including Mjolnir's assistance in all of these or maybe the AFBs could scale to Mjolnir when not being supplied by and then even higher when supplied.
Isn't Silvia implied to be greater than someone like Kaori due to full power Carissa w/Curtana Original and Knight Leader seeing her as a problem if she was around during their coup?

“It looks like there are no Royal Maids or armed aides among them. We might have had some trouble if a Saint like Silvia had been here.”
“Lady Villian especially hates having military power. Most of the people here are commoners.”
“Hmph. Is that why you’re in such a bad mood? Regardless of what their position or social status may have been, there is no excuse for allowing my sister to sense the danger and get away.” - OT17
Mjolnir scale/downscales to Kaori, the same Kaori who got her ass handed to her by Knight Leader and Knight Leader said something of the effect that Carissa is on a comparable if not stronger level than him - but by Carissa's own word, they would've experienced trouble if somebody on Silvia's level was around; so technically speaking there wouldn't be issue on Thor's arms exploding as he's still vastly below Siliva in this hypothical scaling chain.

And on Touma's end... We do have the second round with Accelerator, in where Accelerator fought with the intentional to kill, had the rational mind that his previous usages of the black wings didn't have, and we have a direct statement in where Accelerator was using all the power he had in his attacks... and oddly there isn't much people that actually scales to Touma - Stiyl? One-shotted. Sisters!Accelerator. Ass was on the ground with a full-powered punch. Saiji? One-shotted and tackled. Agnese? Almost fell unconsious with one punch and went down after another. Sherry. Same as Agnese. Oriana? Two-shotted by a weakened Touma. Biasi. Two-shotted. Vento. One-shotted. Hamazura. Two-shotted. Terra. Two-shotted. And you get the point.

In a lot of Touma's fights, he is oddly portrayed as physically above the people he fights by the virtue of one-to-two-shotting them.

And again Mjolnir is external support that can and would fight against him if he steps out of line (as shown when he knocked out Marian), so it wouldn't make sense to count on her support.

We also have this
“Try to be a little more imaginative.” Thor shook his bloody right hand while smiling. “I’m known as an almighty god right now, y’know? If Othinus hadn’t gouged out her eye, I’d be leading Gremlin. You need to widen your view if you want to talk about me.”
Thor would've been the one to lead GREMLIN if Othinus wasn't around, and GREMLIN allowed themselves to be led by her due to her power - which probably isn't too helpful but it is something.
 
Found It:
"That electric arc that could slice through a metal plate over 10 cm thick like it was the paper of a goldfish scoop did not decapitate Kamijou Touma.

This was thanks to his right hand.

Kamijou Touma’s Imagine Breaker blew away the light blade that Thor had used.

“You’re taking me too lightly,” Kamijou said clearly while breathing heavily. “I never had any kind of overarching plan either!!”

Just as it looked like another bluish-white beam of light would appear from Thor’s fingertips, Kamijou dashed over and grabbed his right wrist. The blade that could slice through steel disappeared before it could fully form." NT5, Ch2 Part 6.

Touma can't null the AFBs when Mjolnir is supplying them, we saw that in their final fight.
Isn't Silvia implied to be greater than someone like Kaori due to full power Carissa w/Curtana Original and Knight Leader seeing her as a problem if she was around during their coup?

Mjolnir scale/downscales to Kaori, the same Kaori who got her ass handed to her by Knight Leader and Knight Leader said something of the effect that Carissa is on a comparable if not stronger level than him - but by Carissa's own word, they would've experienced trouble if somebody on Silvia's level was around; so technically speaking there wouldn't be issue on Thor's arms exploding as he's still vastly below Siliva in this hypothical scaling chain.
Kanzaki didn't explode when KL beat her up, not even Acqua did that in OT16 and he is stronger than KL, so no. Again, his AFBs can scale this high, his body can't, not only cause of Touma but also because of the statement against Silvia (which btw is pretty similar to what Kamachi said about Mikoto fighting a Saint in the same volume iirc).
And on Touma's end... We do have the second round with Accelerator, in where Accelerator fought with the intentional to kill, had the rational mind that his previous usages of the black wings didn't have, and we have a direct statement in where Accelerator was using all the power he had in his attacks... and oddly there isn't much people that actually scales to Touma - Stiyl? One-shotted. Sisters!Accelerator. Ass was on the ground with a full-powered punch. Saiji? One-shotted and tackled. Agnese? Almost fell unconsious with one punch and went down after another. Sherry. Same as Agnese. Oriana? Two-shotted by a weakened Touma. Biasi. Two-shotted. Vento. One-shotted. Hamazura. Two-shotted. Terra. Two-shotted. And you get the point.

In a lot of Touma's fights, he is oddly portrayed as physically above the people he fights by the virtue of one-to-two-shotting them.
Yes, cause Touma is in the high end of the normal human fighters. Please, let's not discuss Saint Level Touma again, it's simply not supported by anything other than that fight with Accel which is clearly plot armor (just like the other fights with him).
And again Mjolnir is external support that can and would fight against him if he steps out of line (as shown when he knocked out Marian), so it wouldn't make sense to count on her support.

We also have this

Thor would've been the one to lead GREMLIN if Othinus wasn't around, and GREMLIN allowed themselves to be led by her due to her power - which probably isn't too helpful but it is something.
Yeah, that's the reason I am agreeing with Saint Tier AFBs without Mjolnir's support, but there is literally nothing supporting his physicals being that high.
 
Found It:
"That electric arc that could slice through a metal plate over 10 cm thick like it was the paper of a goldfish scoop did not decapitate Kamijou Touma.

This was thanks to his right hand.

Kamijou Touma’s Imagine Breaker blew away the light blade that Thor had used.

“You’re taking me too lightly,” Kamijou said clearly while breathing heavily. “I never had any kind of overarching plan either!!”

Just as it looked like another bluish-white beam of light would appear from Thor’s fingertips, Kamijou dashed over and grabbed his right wrist. The blade that could slice through steel disappeared before it could fully form." NT5, Ch2 Part 6.

Touma can't null the AFBs when Mjolnir is supplying them, we saw that in their final fight.

Yeah, that's the reason I am agreeing with Saint Tier AFBs without Mjolnir's support, but there is literally nothing supporting his physicals being that high.
... Yes? And that only happened when Mjolnir multiplied the length and power of the Arc Blades?

Again. We have direct confirmation that Thor doesn't even have the Arc Fusion Blades without Mjolnir

From Othinus
“Of course not. I’m not your ally. In fact, being your enemy sounds like more fun. Oh, and Kamijou-chan. This is a lot more like it. You had completely rotted away when I saw you back in Academy City, but I think I can enjoy myself plenty now. Having a monster like Magic God Othinus as an added bonus just makes it perfect. Honestly, this is one of the greatest servings of experience I’ve ever seen. I really think my stomach might burst.”

“Watch out,” whispered Othinus. “We already dealt with Mjölnir, so he isn’t being supported by his hammer. That means he’s lost his power as the lightning god.”
From Thor
With his powers as an almighty god released, that action seemed empty and dreary. It felt like unreal effort as if he were walking on a treadmill with a false, backwards-panning scenery displayed around him.

If it felt like this for him while he was limited to this world, he wondered how the world had appeared to Othinus when she had gained her full power.

“This is all I have. From beginning to end, it’s nothing but this. With Mjölnir’s support, I can add in the fusion blades and make it a little more acrobatic, but this is all I have now. To be blunt, this is your chance. You’ll never have a better opportunity.”
We also confirmation that Lightning God Thor (The Thor w/Arc Fusion Blade Spell) and Almighty Thor (The Thor w/o Arc Fusion Blade spell) are two entirely different "modes" of his in NT8
“I see.” The lightning god Thor let out a light sigh. “In that case, I feel sorry for our enemies.

“Do not head out as the lightning god. Start as the Almighty Thor from the beginning. You can use anyone and anything you want outside of Marian, Mjölnir, and Bersi. I will even lend you the goddess Freyja and the giant Mökkurkalfe. At any rate, if anyone tries to interfere, give them a death at sea.”
So am not entirely sure where you are going here. Unless you are suggesting Thor's Almighty Thor key should have Arc Blades or smth.
Kanzaki didn't explode when KL beat her up, not even Acqua did that in OT16 and he is stronger than KL, so no. Again, his AFBs can scale this high, his body can't, not only cause of Touma but also because of the statement against Silvia (which btw is pretty similar to what Kamachi said about Mikoto fighting a Saint in the same volume iirc).
Yes, cause Touma is in the high end of the normal human fighters. Please, let's not discuss Saint Level Touma again, it's simply not supported by anything other than that fight with Accel which is clearly plot armor (just like the other fights with him).
Eh. It can be supported by Touma taking an unrestrained kick from Kaori, a blast of air with intent to kill from Accel, a vector control-boosted Dark Matter with intent to kill from Rensa, got hit by two separate explosions in two separate occasions from Othinus with intent to kill, could survive an explosion formed from the magic of St. Germain, Sample Shoggoth/Dark Matter, or both in a bloody state where everyone else was knocked out or reduced to a pile of junk in Salome's case and handled getting directly attacked by Sample Shoggoth/Dark Matter with intent to kill just fine, a spell with intent to kill from Mathers that he couldn't react fast enough to negate, an attack from Coronzon's Aethyr Avatars, and could harm and defeat Anna who was fully intent on murdering him and wasn't holding anything back in their fight (and said fight was considered a victory for Touma in both Othinus' and Kamachi's eyes).

This isn't even counting the other durability feats from Accel. so the round 2 fight isn't just a one-off outliner powered by plot armor - we have ten or so other moments to support the idea. What more do you need before you stop calling it an outliner?
 
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Actually, wait, wait. Let's ignore this topic as it belongs to a CRT entirely devoted to it instead as a side-piece of another CRT - meaning, ignore the stuff about thor, touma, and whatever. I'mma cross it off (and the possibly 5-B for Index).
 
With my two disagreements being removed from the proposals, I will now say that I agree with everything, but we need to be careful HOW to apply each of these values to each profile and that should be what we discuss until other disagreements are brought up.

Also, I found another quote to support the "Mid Tiers" (it was about GRS, so only really supports Terra and Vento, but still):

“I create a wall of Telesma along the rope which makes up a ‘hand’ that grabs the air.”

Silvia once more began spinning around at high speed.

The rope writhed through the air like it was trying to lure something.

That great serpent that swam through the sky then distinctly bared its fangs.

“So…well…don’t worry. I am probably one of the most skilled in the world when it comes to not getting others wrapped up in my fights. Just entrust your worries to this maid and go nuts!!”

(Not good. She isn’t just using one angel’s name. It changes from Gabriel to Raphael, then from Raphael to Michael, then from Michael to Uriel. She’s trying to build the power of each consecutive sigil off the power of the previous one!!)

Tarot could be used in many different ways, but in modern Western magic, a reversed card could be used to take advantage of the affinities between the four elements. What card was placed next to the current card could strengthen the useful symbols of the card or the troublesome symbols of the card.

This method was different from those of God’s Right Seat who had specialized in a single form of Telesma.

Even if this magic could never compare to them in any one of the four elements, it attempted to outdo them overall with its superior balance.
NT6, Ch7, Part 7
 
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With my two disagreements bring removed from the proposals, I will now say that I agree with everything, but we need to be careful HOW to apply each of these values to each profile and should be what we discuss until other disagreements are brought up.
Agreed.

To help... I would like to point out there is also that one magician that Itsuwa fought who considered it a pain for her to kill Elizard after her power-up (but didn't consider it possible or difficult) - and who Itsuwa defeated by copying her "everything" via magic, so this is a step in this direction too I suppose.
It may have been the case that no one had made any mistakes.
It may have been the case that everyone had done their very best.
But the result was much too chilling.
“…!?”
A high-pitched sound burst out.
The thrown front of Itsuwa’s spear seemed to have been deflected by an invisible wall
before it reached Cynthia.
“If they have made up for the delay, everything will be fine.”
She should not have had that power.
The staff in her hand should not have had much ability as a spiritual item.
Which meant…
“The queen is analyzing the examples in the British Museum, transforming that
information into data, and transmitting it to the pound economy nations all over the
world via the ley lines and other magical connections.”
The hints to this sudden reversal had been there.
England and the pound economy nations were magically connected, so England was
prepared to send magic all over the world.
Yes, it was prepared.
In feng shui, mountains and rivers changed the flow of luck. By filling in lakes or carving
down mountains to change the conditions, that flow of energy could be altered.
Which meant…
“I never needed some great spiritual item. Just this one small one was all I needed to
obtain everything. All I needed was a spell to intercept and read the data the queen is
sending through the ley lines! Then I could get my hands on every single example inside
the British Museum!!”
With a sound like electricity entering an old cathode-ray tube, the cheap staff emitted light.
And the next thing Itsuwa knew, it had transformed into a large hammer. The change had
looked somehow organic as if watching a tree growing on fast forward.
It was only then that a sense of danger caught up to the Anglican magicians surrounding
Cynthia. They attacked her from every direction at once.
But it was too late.
“The British Museum.” Cynthia was confident enough to smile. “The British Museum! I
have everything that is stored there!! And with a spiritual item small enough for a single
magician to hold in both hands!! Did you think you could defeat the world’s greatest
museum which is known as a magical arsenal!?”
An explosive noise burst out.
One magician was struck by the hammer and he was embedded halfway into a building
wall.
One magician was knocked to the ground by lightning fired from the tip of a spear.
One magician was grabbed and dragged down into the earth by countless hands growing
from the ground.
With each attack, the staff changed form with organic movements and produced a great
variety of effects. It was ever changing. Itsuwa needed to gather as much information on
this enemy as possible, but she felt her eyes starting to spin just by watching.
This was not normal.
It went beyond what she had expected.
Even Queen Elizard had been deceived and that staff had downloaded all the information
on the valuable spiritual items stored in the British Museum. With just that one staff, how
many spiritual items could she reproduce and how many types of magic could she use? It
seemed foolish to even try to count.
“Now then.”
Itsuwa heard a thud.
The final Anglican magician had collapsed.
“I now possess the British Museum. Now that I have the exact same power, that collection
of antiques cannot deflect my attacks. My next attack will burn down the British Museum.
Without the examples, the pound economy will be forever unable to recover☆”
“…?”
Itsuwa frowned while staying on her guard.
“The British Museum?” she said without thinking. “Not the queen? Your main target was
the British Museum!?”
“You thought I was assassinating Elizard? That would be a giant pain and it would
accomplish nothing.”
She did not say it would be “impossible” or “difficult”.
She said it would be a “pain”.
Also, I found another quote to support the "Mid Tiers" (it was about GRS, so only really supports Terra and Vento, but still):

“I create a wall of Telesma along the rope which makes up a ‘hand’ that grabs the air.”

Silvia once more began spinning around at high speed.

The rope writhed through the air like it was trying to lure something.

That great serpent that swam through the sky then distinctly bared its fangs.

“So…well…don’t worry. I am probably one of the most skilled in the world when it comes to not getting others wrapped up in my fights. Just entrust your worries to this maid and go nuts!!”

(Not good. She isn’t just using one angel’s name. It changes from Gabriel to Raphael, then from Raphael to Michael, then from Michael to Uriel. She’s trying to build the power of each consecutive sigil off the power of the previous one!!)


Tarot could be used in many different ways, but in modern Western magic, a reversed card could be used to take advantage of the affinities between the four elements. What card was placed next to the current card could strengthen the useful symbols of the card or the troublesome symbols of the card.

This method was different from those of God’s Right Seat who had specialized in a single form of Telesma.

Even if this magic could never compare to them in any one of the four elements, it attempted to outdo them overall with its superior balance
.

NT6, Ch7, Part 7
So if I am getting this right a GRS mem (i.e William, Vento, Terra, and Fiamma) are vastly superior to her magic-wise in using just one of the four elements and Silva makes up for it via just using all four elements at once to make up the difference? Therefore, their magic is comparable to hers?
 
Agreed.

To help... I would like to point out there is also that one magician that Itsuwa fought who considered it a pain for her to kill Elizard after her power-up (but didn't consider it possible or difficult) - and who Itsuwa defeated by copying her "everything" via magic, so this is a step in this direction too I suppose.
Did Elizard have Curtana in that context tho?

So if I am getting this right a GRS mem (i.e William, Vento, Terra, and Fiamma) are vastly superior to her magic-wise in using just one of the four elements and Silva makes up for it via just using all four elements at once to make up the difference? Therefore, their magic is comparable to hers?
Yeah, their main spells (or well, Terra's, cause Vento's spell isn't offensive) is clearly stated to be stronger than Silvia's Telesma Barrier.
 
Did Elizard have Curtana in that context tho?
Hm. Doesn't directly mention if she had it, but there is a chance she could've bought it... Although for something more solid... It was stated that elizard bought a small number of elites as her bodyguards and it was implied that Knight Leader was apart of this group and it was implied that Elizard wanted to fight Cynthia but was being held back (and the only times we've seen Elizard fight is with Curtana Second in-hand).

Meanwhile, Queen Regnant Elizard had left her residence at Buckingham Palace and travelled to Westminster Abbey. Naturally, this was not recorded on her normal schedule in order to avoid a sudden attack. She had chosen a small number of elites as her bodyguards.
[...]
There were already several magicians collapsed on the stone-paved clearing in front of the British Museum.

They had all been defeated by Cynthia Exment. She did not think this was the most the Anglicans could muster.

During the one-sided fight, she had seen a few magicians abandoning their defeated comrades and fleeing. They had most likely been ordered to protect a target more valuable than the British Museum or the recovery of the pound economy.

The Queen Regnant and the Knight Leader who protected the royals had yet to show themselves.

The royal maids may have been physically holding the queen back, but it meant these defeated magicians had merely been the ones sent to protect the museum.

Not too much details about 'em since it is Itsuwa's novel after all.

Yeah, their main spells (or well, Terra's, cause Vento's spell isn't offensive) is clearly stated to be stronger than Silvia's Telesma Barrier.
Doesn't Vento have her wind hammer spell that can destroy stuff? It was around before Vento got the ice boat, which she only got since she regained the use of normal magic (somehow), so wouldn't it be reasonably to assume it is apart of the same boat (heh) as Terra's as it would still be full of wind/uriel telesma that Silva's magic could never compare to if she solely used wind/uriel telesma and none of the other elements?
 
Hm. Doesn't directly mention if she had it, but there is a chance she could've bought it... Although for something more solid... It was stated that elizard bought a small number of elites as her bodyguards and it was implied that Knight Leader was apart of this group and it was implied that Elizard wanted to fight Cynthia but was being held back (and the only times we've seen Elizard fight is with Curtana Second in-hand).
Hmmm, yeah, KL and Elizard's intent to fight does support Saint Tier scaling.
Doesn't Vento have her wind hammer spell that can destroy stuff? It was around before Vento got the ice boat, which she only got since she regained the use of normal magic (somehow), so wouldn't it be reasonably to assume it is apart of the same boat (heh) as Terra's as it would still be full of wind/uriel telesma that Silva's magic could never compare to if she solely used wind/uriel telesma and none of the other elements?
Yeah, you're right, I had completely forgotten she had Telesma Wind Magic.
 
Hmmm, yeah, KL and Elizard's intent to fight does support Saint Tier scaling.
yep. So Itsuwa and Cynthia are in the clear? In their magic, and only their magic, scaling.
Yeah, you're right, I had completely forgotten she had Telesma Wind Magic.
Ye, her entire arc is forgotten so nothing wrong about that. So Terra and Vento are cleared in their magic scaling.

Hm... Who else.
 
In their magic, and only their magic, scaling.
I mean, technically these two were both using magic to enhance their physicals, but yeah it's not their base stats.

Who else.
Well, talking about Oriana (as she is probably the most direct statement and the one with less feats at the same time), I think she should be rated something like:

"8B Physically, Varies from 7C, likely up to Saint Tier with magic"

Or something along these lines, as she has several spells and we don't really know what exactly would allow her to kill Saints.



As I said off site, I don't disagree with upgrading Mikoto to Saint Tier, but Fanta suggested to only apply it to Post-L6S Mikoto (editor said she improved her powers after the whole incident was over). Not the best solution, but without a doubt better than nothing.
 
1st thing. Keyboard broken, atm, will have to get new one soon. have to use on-screen keyboard here.

I mean, technically these two were both using magic to enhance their physicals, but yeah it's not their base stats.
Just stating obvious. for clarifcation's sake.

Well, talking about Oriana (as she is probably the most direct statement and the one with less feats at the same time), I think she should be rated something like:

"8B Physically, Varies from 7C, likely up to Saint Tier with magic"

Or something along these lines, as she has several spells and we don't really know what exactly would allow her to kill Saints.
Yes. Make sense. Should Stiyl be the same too?
As I said off site, I don't disagree with upgrading Mikoto to Saint Tier, but Fanta suggested to only apply it to Post-L6S Mikoto (editor said she improved her powers after the whole incident was over). Not the best solution, but without a doubt better than nothing.
Yep. It sucks but will've to do. Which Mikoto shuold the other L5s scale, tho? Pre-L6S or Post-L6S?
 
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Yes. Make sense. Should Stiyl be the same too?
If I got everything right, Stiyl would scale like that too, yes. But he also has the card multiplier that would add another part to his stats.
Yep. It sucks but will've to do. Which Mikoto shuold the other L5s scale, tho? Pre-L6S or Post-L6S?
I am pretty sure Accel was stated to be the strongest after the L6S incident, so Post-L6S.
 
If I got everything right, Stiyl would scale like that too, yes. But he also has the card multiplier that would add another part to his stats.
Am pretty sure that would just get listed as higher, though.
I am pretty sure Accel was stated to be the strongest after the L6S incident, so Post-L6S.
Noted.

Well. Anything else or should I start trying to get mods here now?
 
DontTalk seems to have some issues here, but he tends to be busy so i don't think the revision should be held up for him, if they disagree they can change it later.

Anyway i have bare bones knowledge on the series, only seen some of anime, so if the calcs are accepted, i am fine with the scaling the supporters agree on.
 
Thank you all. Am a bit busy atm. Adopted a new dog and am helping it adjust to my place, basically. Will apply the edits when I can, though.
 
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