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Technically speaking three mods have agreed to this, but we’ll continue with the arguments/summary.
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Trust me, that would probably be in 2025. I feel he’s trying to intentionally skip this thread.Personally with three agreements with the OP I think all we need is to have Ultima come to discuss how this affects the standard Marvel cosmology
Trust me, that would probably be in 2025. I feel he’s trying to intentionally skip this thread.
Technically speaking three mods have agreed to this, but we’ll continue with the arguments/summary.
@Ultima_RealityPersonally with three agreements with the OP I think all we need is to have Ultima come to discuss how this affects the standard Marvel cosmology
That’s the thing, for DeMatteis, he doesn’t exist. If he were to then that would be confusing where to place him since we’re going to mesh different ideas. If so, he may just be High 1-A in his Cosmology or 1-A for the main side without the DeMatteis Cosmology.So, where would TOAA place on the DeMatties side, and the standard side?
Thanks.That’s the thing, for DeMatteis, he doesn’t exist. If he were to then that would be confusing where to place him since we’re going to mesh different ideas. If so, he may just be High 1-A in his Cosmology or 1-A for the main side without the DeMatteis Cosmology.
For the standard side, if the Cosmology remains the same(I highly doubt it) then he would stay where he is. So he would be High 1-A about seven or eight layers(as he currently is).
Well, for what it is worth, I support it.Bump. I demand this thread to rise back into existence.
I really not an expert when it come to Tier 1 in general, i really the last guy to ask this kind of stuff.We need some help here.
I really not an expert when it come to Tier 1 in general, i really the last guy to ask this kind of stuff.
So please stop calling me for this types of CRT.
Just a reminder. The Cosmology “split” is the point here and not really the ratings.I'm no good with T1, either. Best if you do the same with me.
I stated my opinion some pages back, but I'm on NHTKenshin and Alonik's side and strongly disagree with the arguments in the OP. My overall problem is that the split justifications are examples of differences between the cosmologies and not contradictions that are irreconciliable. Just because something isn't mentioned in the other cosmology, doesn't mean it's incompatible with that cosmology. Even then, both NHTKenshin and I explained in one of our responses why most of these examples of "cosmological differences" are actually very present in all cosmologies, to which OP admitted that indeed, these elements of the cosmologies aren't actually contradictory. Some of these arguments in particular, I find incredibly arbitrary, like the argument that one of DeMatteis's inspirations was a famous monk from India, and the fact that none of the other authors like Al Ewing mention being inspired by this monk means the cosmologies are incompatible???Well, for what it is worth, I support it.
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We need some help here.
Despite a huge chunk of the OP and condensed forms in the arguments, I answered it:1. The basis provided for splitting the cosmologies is extremely vague, and would indisputably provide grounds for virtually every storyline in Marvel to be split from one another. The argument "but we allowed DeMatteis's ideas to be split from DC and he writes the same across all his works" is just a cliché that isn't proven through the arguments given.
We’re waiting on @NHTkenshin2 to make his summary. They're arguing against the OP which I made all my points from. So they're responsible for a summary.Both sides can make a straight to point summary for people to evaluate.
They can argue for it how they like. However, there are clear differences that warrant a split. They just don't want a “split” as opposed to a split that is illogical. They want a composite Cosmology for whatever reason, even if it's not the best approach.I have one question if we are not separating DeMatteis's take of the Marvel Cosmology from the main MC. DeMatteis has clearly a different view on DeMatteis clearly has a different view on Oblivion who is portrayed as the second most powerful force after God (the Void from which the Multiverse grew and to which it would return, and seeing the Multiverse as an illusion), unlike the main continuity's depiction of Oblivion which portrays him as equal to Eternity, Infinity, and Death.
Yes. There are some elements from DeMatteis's take on the Marvel Cosmology that are outdated or just differentThey can argue for it how they like. However, there are clear differences that warrant a split. They just don't want a “split” as opposed to a split that is illogical. They want a composite Cosmology for whatever reason, even if it's not the best approach.
Defenders are fine. I don't know about Strange. If it doesn't deter anything then it's fine as well.Just to be sure, is there any chance of Defenders Vol 3 and/or Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme #90 being kept in the main canon?
Unless Hickman uses Universe interchangeably with Multiverse. I do believe those gods beyond gods that we see were just their Universal embodiment as the story hinted at quite a few times.Oblivion is equal to them in the main continuity. With the G.O.D.S series, Oblivion might be on par with the Living Tribunal and is his counterpart, but that's because the hierarchy changed after the Eighth Cosmos, which implies that Oblivion is bound to the Multiverse in some ways since he is affected by its changes.
I just saw you mentioned the Chthon stuff from that particular issue in the OP.Defenders are fine. I don't know about Strange. If it doesn't deter anything then it's fine as well.
Yeah, I find that specifically important due to the nature of things and the mental plane as “beyond those concepts” in the gross plane. The description really helps establish that the mental/metaphysical realms are much transcendent to the gross/material plane.I just saw you mentioned the Chthon stuff from that particular issue in the OP.
I know but it doesn't change the fact that they are affected by the changes occurring in the Multiverse.Unless Hickman uses Universe interchangeably with Multiverse. I do believe those gods beyond gods that we see were just their Universal embodiment as the story hinted at quite a few times.
So would you say yes or no to keeping that in the main canon.Yeah, I find that specifically important due to the nature of things and the mental plane as “beyond those concepts” in the gross plane. The description really helps establish that the mental/metaphysical realms are much transcendent to the gross/material plane.
Nah.So would you say yes or no to keeping that in the main canon.
DeMatteis does not underplay his interpretation of cosmic character. Especially the magical aspect of the Cosmology.(I won't lie I didn't know until now that that specific issue was a Demattis one but looking at how they describe Chthon it does not surprise me)
True, which is unlike Oblivion from how DeMatteis describes him.I know but it doesn't change the fact that they are affected by the changes occurring in the Multiverse.
Yes. Even the One Above All, who is God in the main continuity, is implied to have superiors or things outside his influences, contrary to DeMatteis' conception of God.True, which is unlike Oblivion from how DeMatteis describes him.
Yup, not only that but the most recent issues of Incredible Hulk apparently show that One Above All casually switched to his alter ego due to being wrathful and angry. Which is the opposite of God, not only that but a 0 can't be emotionally attached, especially if the said “emotion” is/isn't identical to God’s nature ie Divine Simplicity, and Apophatic Theology.Yes. Even the One Above All, who is God in the main continuity, is implied to have superiors or things outside his influences, contrary to DeMatteis' conception of God.
Yes. The One Above All wasn't shown to be above Duality or Opposite. The One Below All, who represents hatred, destruction and darkness, is the opposite of the One Above All, who represents love, creation and light. Both are the same being but when it comes time to create, the One Above All all is there, while when it comes time to destroy, the One Above All becomes the One Below All.Yup, not only that but the most recent issues of Incredible Hulk apparently show that One Above All casually switched to his alter ego due to being wrathful and angry. Which is the opposite of God, not only that but a 0 can't be emotionally attached, especially if the said “emotion” is/isn't identical to God’s nature ie Divine Simplicity, and Apophatic Theology.
Rats.Nah.
DeMatteis does not underplay his interpretation of cosmic character. Especially the magical aspect of the Cosmology.