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J.M. DeMatteis (Marvel Cosmology Split)
- Thread starter VeryGoofyToddler2
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- #363
I legit got in contact with Ultima. He's apparently checking the DC thread. I don't know why he didn't target this first.VeryGoofyToddler2 waiting for Administrator
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Here's something. In the old Silver Surfer DeMatteis comics, it refers to the Quantum Field, a Realm canonically lower than the Macroverse because Silver Surfer was fully aware of it yet called the Macroverse , Galactus, and several other beings completely beyond his comprehension. It was stated that the Quantum Field was referred to as the Oneness that underlies Duality, which may imply it transcends Duality altogether. It's important because Silver Surfer could canonically survive being the conduit for such energies of the Quantum Field (and his equal/opposite, Savior, was shown capable of weaponizing the Quantum Field without issue)
... So, I completely retract my statement indicating that Silver Surfer was fodder. He may actually be the one to start the High 1-A scaling in DeMatteis' Marvel stories. To think, a Herald tier being High 1-A ? insane.
... So, I completely retract my statement indicating that Silver Surfer was fodder. He may actually be the one to start the High 1-A scaling in DeMatteis' Marvel stories. To think, a Herald tier being High 1-A ? insane.
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- #365
There's no key for Surfer to rank that, but maybe he will get one. He is one of the most powerful heralds.
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I'm fine with him not getting a key, it's just intriguing that DeMatteis just decides to make so many people high-tiered in his stories. It's like a high tiered bargain sale.
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- #367
He respect every characters potential because everyone in the end is just “God” living in his own dream.
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Honestly we should be good. Ultima already said on site that DeMatteis' interpretation of God is 0, which is literally what DeMatteis stated The Divine Creator is, as well as every other interpretation of God/Creator throughout his stories. That aspect was the only real area of potential contention here, everything else we have staff input on and the tiers are really simple since while DeMatteis does high tiered stuff he isn't extremely vague or difficult to understand, so constructing a Cosmology page wouldn't be difficult whatsoever.I have asked Ultima for help in private. If he still does not come here, we can probably move on with this revision without him, but I would much prefer his input.
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Let’s give him until the end of the weekend.
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Alright ! So, it's Sunday, near the middle of Sunday, so time is almost up.
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Okay. So I do believe it's time for us to move on and focus on Cosmology / Who scales to it.
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We're going to split cosmology similar to DC, right? And in marvel comics only oblivion is H1-A+ and TOAA is H1-A+ or 0 in that case god of marvel comics
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One can argue that TOAA could potentially get a key for the Divine Creator, considering DeMatteis stated on more than occasion that he was a stand-in for TOAA in his comics when asked about it. But more than likely they're going to be two different beings until further comic evidence implies they're one in the same (which if DeMatteis makes a comic for Marvel in the future may very well happen considering how likely he'll sneak in his interpretation of God into his stories so I'm not saying it can't happen)
Oblivion would be High 1-A+
Everyone else significant would be High 1-A to varying degrees based on the fact the weakest cosmological structure defined by DeMatteis' Comics (as in lower than the Macroverse)is literally based on Brahma with it being the Oneness that underlies Duality. It's the weakest because the Macroverse was described as being beyond Surfer's imagination/comprehension despite knowing of the Brahma structure. A good chunk of characters are described, stated, and shown as capable of affecting all of Creation (Galactus, The Other, Dr. Strange, Chtlon, Eternity, Amped Dormammu, etc) and the Nexus literally allows one to control the entirety of the Dream.
So yeah, honestly it's pretty flipping blatant.
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Nexus being or what
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No just the Nexus itself. Scrier stated in Peter Parker Annual 1999 that having access to the Nexus essentially would allow them to become God and have full control over All of Creation/Dream, which is why Adam Ka'dmon and the others were rushing to protect it. It's also supported by the fact a single Nexus fragment allows one to become one with God and the entirety of the Dream, so one can imagine what the entire thing would make one capable of.
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- #379
Yeah, Ultima said we can go since it has enough mod approval.
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Alright cool beans.
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- #381
If you will. Can I trust you to make a Sandbox based on what we have here?
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Sure. I can go ahead and do that. I have a good chunk of the cosmology scans and such on Imgbb anyways.
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Ok, this thread will be open for the next 24 hours for just questions and inquiries.
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Before I get started:
How do we treat the Nexus Fragments / Nexus ? Everytime it's mentioned it's explicitly implied that essentially having control over the Nexus or it's Fragment makes you one with The Divine Creator / The Dream itself, with it being so important that if someone has control over it they essentially are the Ultimate Controllers of the Dream.
Other than maybe 1-2 beings, no one really scales to the Nexus, and those two beings are hyped up extremely [Scrier with the Staff, and DeMatteis' depiction of Franklin. The Fusion doesn't scale because Scrier made it clear he didn't fear the Fallen Stars while amped by the Staff and would've effortlessly crushed him if he felt like it, with Adam Ka'dmon's response and narration heavily supporting this]
BTW containing the Nexus doesn't neccessarily mean they were amped by it. We've directly seen what happens when a Nexus fragment is absorbed in DeMatteis' comics: A significant change happens [I.E: Man-Thing in Vol 3 and Silver Surfer respectively] . It just means they have enough power to contain the Nexus within themselves, but they weren't amped by it.
How do we treat the Nexus Fragments / Nexus ? Everytime it's mentioned it's explicitly implied that essentially having control over the Nexus or it's Fragment makes you one with The Divine Creator / The Dream itself, with it being so important that if someone has control over it they essentially are the Ultimate Controllers of the Dream.
Other than maybe 1-2 beings, no one really scales to the Nexus, and those two beings are hyped up extremely [Scrier with the Staff, and DeMatteis' depiction of Franklin. The Fusion doesn't scale because Scrier made it clear he didn't fear the Fallen Stars while amped by the Staff and would've effortlessly crushed him if he felt like it, with Adam Ka'dmon's response and narration heavily supporting this]
BTW containing the Nexus doesn't neccessarily mean they were amped by it. We've directly seen what happens when a Nexus fragment is absorbed in DeMatteis' comics: A significant change happens [I.E: Man-Thing in Vol 3 and Silver Surfer respectively] . It just means they have enough power to contain the Nexus within themselves, but they weren't amped by it.
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I think we shouldn't really be always treating everything in the sense of what was being said because the scaling would be all over the place if we do. With that being said, a Nexus fragment should be automatically High 1-A due to even the smallest pieces having the power to alter things on a creational level.
Yeah, Scrier and Franklin can scale to the Nexus with the rest being behind them.
Doesn't seem that important to me unless we have some sort of direct explanation to what it does when used by the user. If it gives no amp then its fine to ignore it.
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Well it does amp them. Man-Thing is remarked to be able to burn the soul in ways he can never do it before, and well, Silver Surfer was able to oneshot Adam Ka'dmon directly after absorbing one despite him being nowhere near him in the scaling otherwise [Regular Scrier is blatantly above Surfer, and even he had to sneak attack Ka'dmon rather than directly confront him] .
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Obviously, if it does then we can scale the Nexus with those amped by it. I'm just saying, if it doesn't amp at all then that's fine to ignore. In most cases, a separate key for characters like Surfer and Man-Thing can be made from that scaling.
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You know that in some instance,Mattheis God is actually TOAA like for example in his Man Thing issue Silver Surfer said that his master Galactus are born from God's mind and in Defender Beyond TOAA said to Galan mother that his son are indeed his design
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You can't use evidence from Defenders Beyond as that wasn't made by DeMatteis, and God in Silver Surfer is referring to the Divine Creator, as DeMatteis explicitly stated all mentioning of God/Creator are his interpretation of God.
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Im just connecting the dot because thats what's got in my mind once i read Matteis ST and Ewing Defender Beyond that was written recently confirming what Surfer said back then was actually kinda true since both Divine Creator and TOAA created Galan from their ideas
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God being a creator is a common idea. In no way, is that a strong linking point. Not an intentional reference to the previous stories.
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He told me this as well. So, you can close this thread.Ultima told me in private that he is fine with if we apply this revision, if there are already five moderator approvals for it.
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Someone else is making the sandbox and can make a thread for it. This thread is 10 pages long. No reason to keep it open.
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