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Let's just leave it as it is, dude.
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J.M. DeMatteis Cosmology Revision
- Thread starter VeryGoofyToddler
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IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Fine, stop.
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Guys can you not get out of the topic of this thread, especially with the current DC cosmology split complaints, you won't be able to merged the DC cosmology created by the Prince of The Morning.
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Can we hold off a little bit on CRTs, for the rest of the month, maybe?
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Canonical explanations by one author within a franchise are the opinions of one author only. No matter how the author tries to answer for everyone, these are only his thoughts and opinions, and without coordination other canons will not be united.
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First, everyone who is against must respond to my friend's explanation
Hi! Guys, I'm really don't understand ur "problem". In John's cosmology man's unconscious contain hierarchy (as was shown earlier) of dreams, that include imagination.
What is imagination in his cosmology? It's literally the source of all creation. As guys show earlier, contain place that transcend higher planes as a concept.
Now, go to the problem "dreams=parallel worlds". Can dreams be parallel to each other? Of course. But how does that cancel that mind contain those structure? Of cource, not. They're just can be like parallel both higher, it doesn’t change anything.
For example, parallel four-dimensional worlds exist within five-dimensional space. Does that cancel its five-dimensionality?
Then go to "higher planes have little meaning=directionless place". Dr. Fate from the world of form came to the spirit world, so he spoke of it as a higher plane. There is no words about directions. And even if they were here, the context would still be the same, because the directions also mean the coordinate axes.
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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That applies to DC, not to the others. I'm tired of explaining this to you.
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Can you please stop derailing the thread and get back to the topic of this thread? I'm kind of doing a crt to reconcile the collective works of various authors throughout the 21st century that best matches together, which is part of the thread of Crisis Cosmology. We should therefore finish this thread first because it is becoming endless and too derailed.
At this point, i think we should close this thread...
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The scans in the first paragraph were used in the OP already.
The scan in the second paragraph doesn’t introduce any premise that isn’t already accepted for the metaphysical planes in DeMatteis’s cosmology. “The mind is the source of all creation” is the basic premise for the existence of the collective unconscious.
The 3rd argument seems to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding. Yes, we assume that any number of parallel space-times are distanced under a 5-dimensional brane. The implication with the whole “parallel is an antonym for higher dimensional” isn’t that universes being called parallel cancels the higher dimensionality of the space between them, but that the universes themselves as they exist within the space share a common dimensionality.
The 4th paragraph is a bit of a stretch, I don’t see how you can extrapolate “there’s no sense of direction here” into “direction also means axis/vector, so the statement is actually saying the planes are dimensionless and therefore beyond dimensions.” Even if you went with the highest end interpretation, we have 5 different sections in the FAQ explaining how “transcending dimensions” is a no limits fallacy that only guarantees +1 dimensional over the hierarchy proven to exist, and we already recognize the metaphysical planes as Low 1-C, so knowing they’re “beyond dimensions” doesn’t introduce anything either.
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I think it should be closed as well. It's devolved into a general discussion thread on cosmology and isn't formatted appropriately.
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We can start another crt regarding DeMatteis Cosmology upgrade based on the arguments of the op of this thread, because this one has become very long.
Unqver
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As the saying goes, instead of saying so many things that are opposed and difficult to recognize, it's better to first recognize 14-D in Countdown:Arena. At least 1-B can be stabilized. If some people continue to cut the crap, it's difficult not to consider them as unfriendly to DC. Obviously,you can see who those people are.
About this,are those people lost their minds?How could that 14-D be defined as PARELLEL,lol
Is there ONLY a TOTAL of 14 Universes in the DC Multiverse?lol
The description there is similar to Marvel's Secret Wars ΙΙ, except that Secret Wars ΙΙ is a comparison of infinite-D and 3-D,while the Countdown:Arena is a comparison of 14-D and 3-D.Can't you tell that?I don't know how to view your understanding ability anymore.
About this,are those people lost their minds?How could that 14-D be defined as PARELLEL,lol
Is there ONLY a TOTAL of 14 Universes in the DC Multiverse?lol
The description there is similar to Marvel's Secret Wars ΙΙ, except that Secret Wars ΙΙ is a comparison of infinite-D and 3-D,while the Countdown:Arena is a comparison of 14-D and 3-D.Can't you tell that?I don't know how to view your understanding ability anymore.
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Unqver
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OK,that's all.You guys should know what i mean.
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Double standards?
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So they have the same dimension because they exist within the layer of one mind that imagines them. The fact that universes can exist simultaneously within one layer does not negate the possibility of their existence as fictional for a higher layer. In fact, the whole claim is based only on the fact that parallel universes exist, but the context of the very structure of the ladder of dreams, which, for some reason, you ignore, is not taken into account. Well, yes, for Hal the universes are very small, which again demonstrates a qualitative difference
If some plane of existence or being goes beyond the concept of dimensions, then it is not clear why it should give only +1 if it cannot be limited to any number of vectors
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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It‘s not double standards. Marvel and SCP fulfilled the requirements to have a composite cosmology while DC didn't, and anyone who accuses us of "double standards" is misunderstanding the situation.
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Apparently you didn't understand what I wanted to say. “The mind is the source of all creation” means that imagination is the source of underlying structures, being the foundation in relation to them. Dreams contain imagination that > underlying structures.
The difference between universes-dreams is not parallel. The point is that, from her point of view, creation (including lower-level dreams) is a mirage, while she herself exists in Hal’s dream. And as shown later, Hal's dream contains an underlying dream of himself.
I mean that "higher/lower planes have little meaning"="superiority over dimensionality" mean "higher/lower planes are insignificant" = "superiority over dimension" because there the concept of "higher/lower" is irrelevant (i.e. escalation of dimensions), not "superiority over one plane".
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Is this a Metaphor? A universe with multiple authors cannot fulfill this requirement unless it is conditionally and subjectively accepted in sympathy with the claim. One author's statement about the canonicity of past cosmologies is still his personal cosmology, without normal agreement from other authors
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Brahmatman, I know how you feel but we have to get back to the topic this thread so that it doesn't go astray.
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I agree, but I'm still confused
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And what's the differrence between DC and them?)
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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While DC has attempted to canonically explain their contradictions, all of their attempts have ended in a consistent failure to establish something lasting. SCP and Marvel don't have this problem.
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Give an example of such contradictions, please.
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Please attempt to explain where Pralaya and Mother Night exist in the cosmology in relation to the Overvoid, Perpetua, the Monitors, and other elements of the Crisis Cosmology, if we are meant to believe that they all share a singular cosmology.
Bastolan27
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I think the Overvoid can be explained, but not everything else. Therefore, it's probably better to think of them as separate creations inside the Overvoid, where there is supposed to be an infinite number of creations. This would mean that they cannot scale off of each other, but the Overvoid probably can. However, I might be wrong.
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The problem is that this very definitely doesn't work. Pralaya is called the Source and is said to be God's unconscious that even He will return to, which would put her on the same level as the Overvoid. Mother Night can't be a separate creation within the Overvoid, she is described as "the embodiment of the absolute emptiness that predates creation."
All of them more or less serve the same cosmological function in their respective continuities. It is not possible to mash them together in a way that isn't clunky and forced.
Bastolan27
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Couldn't that be explained by both of them probably being avatars of the Great Darkness or Great Evil Beast (Don't remember its name)? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to start an argument.
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Not really, no. These characters have basically no relation to the Great Darkness and that would more or less be an ad-hoc attempt at reconciling them with characters from the Crisis Cosmology that have the most in common, but the Great Darkness isn't the Source and it isn't the mother of the Endless.
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5D 3125
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I believe we should. Any proposed changes need to be more clearly stated and the fluff should be left out.
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I agree. Much of the stuff like the [DeMatteis inspirations] section really muddled the main point of the CRT, and I noticed lots of scans used were either already part of our current cosmology justifications, or failed to express a clear purpose, be it as supporting evidence or conclusive evidence.
VeryGoofyToddler seems to have gone inactive temporarily, and since his Vertigo post holds the same problems, I honestly think both threads should be closed and he should be left a note on his message wall suggesting that he revisit the topic under a more concise new CRT.
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Alright I'll do it. Those who may or may not wish to continue the discussion on why dividing the cosmologies are more than welcome to the DC general discussion thread.
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