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Grand Zeno CRT

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Zeno should have complete immunity to every hax ever shown in dragon ball.
Hahahahahaha!

No.

Jokes aside, there's no reason for that to be the case. It has no grounds and doesn't even need to be true for Zen-Oh to still be considered top dog, due to the fact that he could erase people before they could get a move off.
 
I was asked to close this thread by the OP, due to that it is turning toxic. Is that acceptable?
 
this isn't even my argument at all, please read more carefully
I'm talking about the fact that he was visibly making prolonged contact with the blast that erased infinite zamasu. That along with the statement suggesting the entire universe was being erased is what I'm saying is what gives zeno resistance
Zeno resistance to what? Being in contact with attack? It doesn't matter as he himself wouldn't wanna kill himself or stated he attack could damage or kill him, Basically NLF.
 
We need to change the durability before the thread is closed. If we treat Zeno's attack as EE, there's no reason why his durability should scale. It should probably be left as unknown.
 
His Chi Manip should also be remove if we treat the attack he used on IZ is EE. No reason to assume he can manip Ki, and also his Ki/Energy sensing, i don't remember he have feat sensing people presence and it also defeat the whole point of the Hide abd Seek game he played with other GoDs, as he just can sensing GoDs to find them. Also he can't even sense IZ despite the guy spread himself very far

Edit: His speed i think should also be rework into Unknown with MFLT+ reaction speed. The guy never fight thus scale his reaction speed to his other speed is kinda iffy to me, and don't even manip Ki
 
The point was there’s no resistance to be gained from using an attack that you’re EXEMPT from the effects of.
my argument has NEVER been that using erase means EE immunity
the point is that Zeno literally is visibly using the erase on the entire universe including himself. He LITERALLY covered in the exact same attack that was erasing everything, there was absolutely no visible difference
it's very definitive that Zeno is just resistant to erasure
Zeno resistance to what? Being in contact with attack? It doesn't matter as he himself wouldn't wanna kill himself or stated he attack could damage or kill him, Basically NLF.
so you're saying that, even if he touches an existence erasing attack, he can just choose not to be erased? Basically, your own logic is saying he has EE immunity (even though your logic is still flawed with the assumption that being erased is a choice, my point is that you yourself aren't helping your argument and are just doing whatever you can to downplay zeno at this point)
and again, you still cannot deny he made contact with the attack
His Chi Manip should also be remove if we treat the attack he used on IZ is EE. No reason to assume he can manip Ki, and also his Ki/Energy sensing, i don't remember he have feat sensing people presence and it also defeat the whole point of the Hide abd Seek game he played with other GoDs, as he just can sensing GoDs to find them. Also he can't even sense IZ despite the guy spread himself very far

Edit: His speed i think should also be rework into Unknown with MFLT+ reaction speed. The guy never fight thus scale his reaction speed to his other speed is kinda iffy to me, and don't even manip Ki
isn't ki just a universal system in dragon ball? pretty much anything relevant can shoot a ki blast, even if we can't really determine the exact power
speed is a fair point ig
he destroyed IZ who become univerze so he shouldnt have resistance . it like saying every character who destroy universe should have resistance to it
I'm completely clueless what you were trying to say here but
it's pretty common knowledge that your AP always scales to durability unless proven otherwise
Zeno should have complete immunity to every hax ever shown in dragon ball.
no
I always thought zeno was the strongest but why is super shenron above zeno. Nothing iirc even support's that.
no clue
 
Ki is universal system doesn't mean everyone should have it, or you want Mr Satan have Ki manip??????

If people conclude that Zeno feat with IZ is EE feat rather than Ki Blast feat then his Ki manip should be remove cuz he have no feat of manipulating Ki
 
even if he touches an existence erasing attack, he can just choose not to be erased?
The EE is from himself so explain why he would want to erase himself.

Basically, your own logic is saying he has EE immunity (even though your logic is still flawed with the assumption that being erased is a choice, my point is that you yourself aren't helping your argument and are just doing whatever you can to downplay zeno at this point)
and again, you
You're the one trying to give zeno EE resistance when he has no reason to erase himself and your entire logic is flawed unless you prove his EE was going to erase him when when was erasing trunks timeline.
Downplay what?show me when he tanked someone's EE.
 
We need to change the durability before the thread is closed. If we treat Zeno's attack as EE, there's no reason why his durability should scale. It should probably be left as unknown.
His Chi Manip should also be remove if we treat the attack he used on IZ is EE. No reason to assume he can manip Ki, and also his Ki/Energy sensing, i don't remember he have feat sensing people presence and it also defeat the whole point of the Hide abd Seek game he played with other GoDs, as he just can sensing GoDs to find them. Also he can't even sense IZ despite the guy spread himself very far

Edit: His speed i think should also be rework into Unknown with MFLT+ reaction speed. The guy never fight thus scale his reaction speed to his other speed is kinda iffy to me, and don't even manip Ki
So what do the rest of you think about this?
 
I agree but shouldn't it be perception speed?or it falls under reaction speed also?
 
Plus, there is no reason why Zeno can't just exclude himself and spread his hakai attack outward. Why would he want to use it on himself.
The attack was clearly omnidirectional, and we can see that zeno was engulfed within his own blast. Consistent with the fact people like Beerus and the G.O.Ds fear zeno instead of just erasing him. But I guess if it only counts if its someone else using it on him and not himself, then ig the thread fails
 
The EE is from himself so explain why he would want to erase himself.


You're the one trying to give zeno EE resistance when he has no reason to erase himself and your entire logic is flawed unless you prove his EE was going to erase him when when was erasing trunks timeline.
Downplay what?show me when he tanked someone's EE.
We can clearly see that he was engulfed with his own attack? So if he's making contact with this blast, and the blast was omnidirectional, and he's still unaffected by it, I would think he would have some level of res to it. Similar to if one were to use poison manipulation and is constanty inhaling the poison they are using, they would need to have that res or they would just die.
 
Zeno EE away infinite zamasu why would he need to EE himself? Why would he take such a risk and this attack is from himself not from another character so I disagree.
 
The attack was clearly omnidirectional, and we can see that zeno was engulfed within his own blast. Consistent with the fact people like Beerus and the G.O.Ds fear zeno instead of just erasing him. But I guess if it only counts if its someone else using it on him and not himself, then ig the thread fails
Even if what you say is true, we don't assume that character's hax work on themselves. This argument is the same as giving Hit time stop resistance because he doesn't time stop himself.
 
Even if what you say is true, we don't assume that character's hax work on themselves. This argument is the same as giving Hit time stop resistance because he doesn't time stop himself.
hax is always a case by case basis because the term itself is vague, so time stop here only makes it sound like a good argument because the comparison is fundamentally flawed and actually misrepresents the logic of the argument, so that really holds no weight here
it would be best to compare EE to only itself, and we can visibly see that Zeno is making complete contact with his attack that erases what it touches
and yes, we do know that it just erases what it touches from
1. the intitial reaction of zamasu when it seems to touch him
2. the timing of when the time machine avoids being touched by the attack, likely indicating that if it had made contact it would have instantly erased them. the fact that 2 of the kais also escaped with it kinda supports that they knew that would happen as well, which matters considering they probably know more about zeno's powers than anybody there
and also it's pretty much just common sense unless there's proof otherwise
so to sum it up
  • attack erases anything it touches
  • zeno definitely touches it and doesn't get erased
if you say that zeno can choose what it erases regardless of if it touches them or not, then you have to have some kind of proof
but considering that we've already seen EE resistance from characters who are much lower and don't have the ability to erase like frieza, and also the fact that the gods of destruction who should theoretically be able to erase him (if he didn't have EE res) admit to being far below him, I highly doubt the authors writing in the future nor the already established logic will be giving any room for argument against zeno having it as well
if it does come to that though we could always just revert the changes, but until then, the CRT remains correct (for the EE part, not sure about void)
 
Zeno EE away infinite zamasu why would he need to EE himself? Why would he take such a risk and this attack is from himself not from another character so I disagree.
that's the entire thing we're explaining dude, we're saying that zeno can't be erased. using the entire point of the argument as evidence to prove you're right probably won't work
 
Anyway, is it fine if I change Zeno's durability to unknown then? Or is there something else that needs to be said about that?
 
statements of zeno being stronger than anybody else in the world
whis and shin stating that no matter zeno could never be defeated
other official material such as heroes also relaying the idea that no one, not even the grand priest, is more powerful than him
 
statements of zeno being stronger than anybody else in the world
whis and shin stating that no matter zeno could never be defeated
other official material such as heroes also relaying the idea that no one, not even the grand priest, is more powerful than him
How about possibly 2-C for durability?
 
I've made the change to Zeno's dura

Durability: Unknown, possibly Low Multiverse level (Stated to be the strongest character in the verse that nobody can defeat no matter what)

If someone can provide a scan of that statement to link with the justification, it would be better. After that, this thread can be closed.
 
I mean, the way that his dura is rated, Zeno resist all hax in DB

''(Stated to be the strongest character in the verse that nobody can defeat no matter what)''
 
also he has bodyguards in spite of being "the strongest" so
He has attendants, not explicitly and exclusively bodyguards.
In fact, they even appear to have time off on occasion (at least, in the manga).
''(Stated to be the strongest character in the verse that nobody can defeat no matter what)''
We doing the Jiren thing again?
 
I mean, the way that his dura is rated, Zeno resist all hax in DB

''(Stated to be the strongest character in the verse that nobody can defeat no matter what)''
Yeah no. That's not what it implies. Even if there is someone in a verse nobody can defeat, we don't give them all resistances. There could be several other reasons for why they cannot be defeated like being able to erase anyone before they could do anything, etc.

If somebody can provide the scan I can link it and change the wording to exactly what was said. Although, I distinctly remember that Whis said that he cannot be defeated by anybody.
 
Yeah no. That's not what it implies. Even if there is someone in a verse nobody can defeat, we don't give them all resistances. There could be several other reasons for why they cannot be defeated like being able to erase anyone before they could do anything, etc.

If somebody can provide the scan I can link it and change the wording to exactly what was said. Although, I distinctly remember that Whis said that he cannot be defeated by anybody.
Bro I think they were just ******* around lol.
 
Yeah no. That's not what it implies. Even if there is someone in a verse nobody can defeat, we don't give them all resistances. There could be several other reasons for why they cannot be defeated like being able to erase anyone before they could do anything, etc.
That's why I'm saying that the wording need to be changed, ''nobody can defeat no matter what'' pretty much implies that nothing can defeat it, which would include stuff like poison, petrification etc, since, these are ways to defeat someone which exist in DB, and Zeno wording pretty much says that
 
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