Super Shenron: The Dragon Who 'Possibly' got buffed from an omniscient being.

[Qawsedf234]

Oh well I thought erasing a universe on a 5th dimensional scale and SS restoring it would be 5D hax

Well the universes aren't 5D. If they were then it would be a Low 1-C feat. The universes are 4D, but the second time axis present that crosses through them all makes the greater Timeline 5D by virtue of 3D+2.

Shenron to restore a universe just needs to repair an erased 3D+1 structure.

do you agree with both Zeno and Zuno's statements?

That the wishes can do anything? I think that would give the Dragon reason to scale to anyone other than Zeno.

 

[AizenBankai09]

Well the universes aren't 5D. If they were then it would be a Low 1-C feat. The universes are 4D, but the second time axis present that crosses through them all makes the greater Timeline 5D by virtue of 3D+2.

Shenron to restore a universe just needs to repair an erased 3D+1 structure.

That the wishes can do anything? I think that would give the Dragon reason to scale to anyone other than Zeno.

Why other than Zeno though?
it was stated by Zuno who's nigh-omniscient that he can grant any wish and that nothing is beyond SS's capabilities (stated in both anime and Manga) even Zenos themselves said that he can grant any wish, wouldn't that atleast grant a possibily Low 1-C?

 

[Qawsedf234]

it was stated by Zuno who's nigh-omniscient that he can grant any wish and that nothing is beyond SS's capabilities (stated in both anime and Manga) even Zenos themselves said that he can grant any wish, wouldn't that atleast grant a possibily Low 1-C?

Because it causes a logical loop as detailed here

"He has no limitation, yet it is said that no one can beat Zeno, aka Super Shenron would have a limitation, that being Zeno, aka his "no limitation" stated is invalid as he has a limitation"

"It is said that "no one can beat Zeno" " No one is above him" "No one can beat him no matter what"
but if Super shenron truly has "no limits" then he could easily just beat zeno by wishing "defeat Zeno in a fight" which by statements is not a possible thing"

"If you really want to use the "no limits" as an argument for him being low 1-C, you would have to remove the statements from zeno being the strongest and unbeatable, since one would contradict the other"

"Someone wishes to him "i wish you you to beat Zeno in a fight" either way, the statement of "doing anything" applies to super shenron, and the statement isn't "no one can threat Zeno" it is "no one can beat Zeno no matter what" so Super shenron doing anything would contradict that, as defeating Zeno is part of "anything"

I'm not seeing a reason why to make Shenron comparable to someone that would be stronger than him. Zeno can respect Shenron while still being more powerful than him, it could just mean that Shenron is the closest in power as an example.

Though if people want a possibly rating I won't fight it, I just don't see a good justification for it.

 

[AizenBankai09]

Because it causes a logical loop as detailed here

I'm not seeing a reason why to make Shenron comparable to someone that would be stronger than him. Zeno can respect Shenron while still being more powerful than him, it could just mean that Shenron is the closest in power as an example.

Though if people want a possibly rating I won't fight it, I just don't see a good justification for it.

Alright it's fine, thanks for your time

 

[Sus]

i do agree with a possibly, but wouldn't zeno killing someone whom SS granted immortality kinda limit SS?
i still think that zeno wouldn't say SS is limitless if he's infinitely weaker

 

[AizenBankai09]

i do agree with a possibly, but wouldn't zeno killing someone whom SS granted immortality kinda limit SS?
i still think that zeno wouldn't say SS is limitless if he's infinitely weaker

Zamasu lost his immortality when he fused with the timeline, he lost his mid-Godly regen when he got corrupted and if I recall he only had mid-high regen and trunks negated it with SoH

 

[Sus]

the dragon ball wiki lied to me

if thats the case then i still agree

 

[StrymULTRA]

Zamasu lost his immortality when he fused with the timeline, he lost his mid-Godly regen when he got corrupted and if I recall he only had mid-high regen and trunks negated it with SoH

His immortality being weakened =/= his immortality being lost.

Gowasu literally said Zamasu is still immortal lol.

 

[Sus]

the profile does list his regeneration as weaker than base zamasu

idk honestly

 

[AizenBankai09]

His immortality being weakened =/= his immortality being lost.

Gowasu literally said Zamasu is still immortal lol.

Read my first few words I said when he merged with the timeline, thus that's why Zeno doesn't have immortality negation

 

[StrymULTRA]

Read my first few words I said when he merged with the timeline, thus that's why Zeno doesn't have immortality negation

That's because Zeno erased him on a High-Godly level, not because Zamasu's immortality became weaker.

Zeno would have erased him even if he didn't lose said immortality.

 

[AizenBankai09]

That's because Zeno erased him on a High-Godly level, not because Zamasu's immortality became weaker.

Zeno would have erased him even if he didn't lose said immortality.

That's only in the manga, when he merged with the timeline he only had HDE and AE and I think some more abilities, if you can prove that when Zamasu merged with the timeline he still had his godly regen then make a crt about it

 

[Sus]

That's because Zeno erased him on a High-Godly level, not because Zamasu's immortality became weaker.

Zeno would have erased him even if he didn't lose said immortality.

zamasu has high godly regen

to kill him you would need regen neg

but fusion zamasu doesn't have high godly listed on his profile, so zeno doesn't get regen neg

 

[Qawsedf234]

to kill him you would need regen neg

You don't get Regeneration Negation for a killing someone with Regeneration unless you explicitly negate it. You just need to kill them on a level they can't come back from. In this case Zeno's erasure doesn't negate his regen, he just kills him on such a scale that he couldn't come back from. Like how Gohan killing Cell doesn't give him regen negation, it just means his attacks destroy things on the cellular level.

 

[Sus]

You don't get Regeneration Negation for a killing someone with Regeneration unless you explicitly negate it. You just need to kill them on a level they can't come back from. In this case Zeno's erasure doesn't negate his regen, he just kills him on such a scale that he couldn't come back from. Like how Gohan killing Cell doesn't give him regen negation, it just means his attacks destroy things on the cellular level.

i thought u cant overcome high godly with pure ap/EE?

 

[Qawsedf234]

i thought u cant overcome high godly with pure ap/EE?

Haki already erases things on a High Godly level. Zeno just also erased the Space-Times making up Trunk's TL. Which is beyond what anyone can regen from.

 

[AizenBankai09]

Haki already erases things on a High Godly level. Zeno just also erased the Space-Times making up Trunk's TL. Which is beyond what anyone can regen from.

Wait wait I'm confused, didn't beerus himself state that he can't kill Immortals, doesn't that include Zamasu's regen?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait wait I'm confused, didn't beerus himself state that he can't kill Immortals, doesn't that include Zamasu's regen?

Zamazu's Regen > Haki = Accepted as destroying you on a level of Mind, Body, Soul and a Fundamental Aspect (History)

Zeno's Erasure destroyed everything within Trunk's timeline, including Space-Time along with the above. Which exceed Zamazu's ability to regenerate since he still requires something to regenerate from and whatever that something was, Zeno destroyed.

To qualify as power nullification you have to nullify that power directly. The page says as much

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to nullify the powers and abilities of others, preventing or disabling their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic. In some cases, an ability can only be negated once it's been used or activated, but in others, powers can be nullified before they're even utilized. The effect may be temporary or permanent, and may be restricted by touch, or be something that the user can apply to any ability they see, or within a field that negates any powers within.

Zeno didn't negate anything, he just killed him so hard he couldn't come back.

 

[Huesito88]

Wait so there's such a thing as having High Godly Regen with the specific type of regeneration of coming back from being destroyed at the Space-Time level?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait so there's such a thing as having High Godly Regen with the specific type of regeneration of coming back from being destroyed at the Space-Time level?

High Godly is just Mind + Body + Soul + Some random fourth thing. In this case its "History"

Zeno destroyed him on Mind + Body + Soul + History + Space-Time

He couldn't come back, because he still requires some aspect to regenerate from and that aspect was destroyed by Zeno. That's just how the power works.

 

[AizenBankai09]

High Godly is just Mind + Body + Soul + Some random fourth thing. In this case its "History"

Zeno destroyed him on Mind + Body + Soul + History + Space-Time

He couldn't come back, because he still requires some aspect to regenerate from and that aspect was destroyed by Zeno. That's just how the power works.

Didn't Gowasu state that in exchange of his physical body he became justice and order itself?
So how could Zeno destroy him on Mind, body, soul, etc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So how could Zeno destroy him on Mind, body, soul, etc.

By erasing him. Like, that's just how the scene works. Zeno erases him on a such a level that he can't come back from. His High Godly regen can't regenerate from the scale of Zeno's erasure.

 

[AizenBankai09]

By erasing him. Like, that's just how the scene works. Zeno erases him on a such a level that he can't come back from. His High Godly regen can't regenerate from the scale of Zeno's erasure.

Again he lost his high-godly regen after getting corrupted and only had mid-high regen and completely lost his regen after getting rid of his physical body and became one with the timeline (justice and order)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Again he lost his high-godly regen after getting corrupted and only had mid-high regen and completely lost his regen after getting rid of his physical body and became one with the timeline (justice and order)

Sure I guess. But my point was that you don't need High-Godly regen negation to kill Zamazu. You can do that with intense enough EE.

 

[Sus]

the profile doesn't list high godly for infinite zamasu in the first place so idk

 

[Phsccarvalho]

IZ does not have any form of regeneration in its profile, nor does it resist EE. So if it were erased by any EE even without a historical level, well, it would go from F.

 

[Sus]

so, what's the consensus here?

 

[AizenBankai09]

so, what's the consensus here?

Two staff agreements still waiting for a third