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Grand Zeno CRT

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AKM sama said:
Yeah no. That's not what it implies. Even if there is someone in a verse nobody can defeat, we don't give them all resistances. There could be several other reasons for why they cannot be defeated like being able to erase anyone before they could do anything, etc.

If somebody can provide the scan I can link it and change the wording to exactly what was said. Although, I distinctly remember that Whis said that he cannot be defeated by anybody.
Click to expand...
Again, I'd also want to argue that he can't defeated by anyone due to his erasure taking people out before they could get anything off.
 
Bernkastelll said:
That's why I'm saying that the wording need to be changed, ''nobody can defeat no matter what'' pretty much implies that nothing can defeat it, which would include stuff like poison, petrification etc, since, these are ways to defeat someone which exist in DB, and Zeno wording pretty much says that
Click to expand...
Wait- Your serious? Bern for christ's sake, that is the textbook case of hyperbole.
 
Bernkastelll said:
I mean, the way that his dura is rated, Zeno resist all hax in DB

''(Stated to be the strongest character in the verse that nobody can defeat no matter what)''
Click to expand...
Bernkastelll said:
?? when did I wanted to give resistance to Zeno?? I said to change the Wording of his DURABILITY, and AKM asked what the scan mentions, and I sent it!
Click to expand...
That is a blatant lie as you said that Zeno should resist all hax in DB verse. Sorry if I sound rude.
 
azontr said:
That is a blatant lie as you said that Zeno should resist all hax in DB verse. Sorry if I sound rude.
Click to expand...
NO, I said the way that it was worded, then, we should change it
Bernkastelll said:
That's why I'm saying that the wording need to be changed, ''nobody can defeat no matter what'' pretty much implies that nothing can defeat it, which would include stuff like poison, petrification etc, since, these are ways to defeat someone which exist in DB, and Zeno wording pretty much says that
Click to expand...
 
I'm saying to change the description of ''Cannot be defeated'' to ''Ridiculously stronger than anyone else'', since, the latter is the correct one
 
Bernkastelll said:
NO, I said the way that it was worded, then, we should change it
Click to expand...
OK. Then we've had a miscommunication since you sounded like you wanted to have Zeno resist everything. Although, I honestly don't believe the wording needs to be changed since anyone should be able to figure out that statements like that wouldn't give resistances without further evidence.
 
azontr said:
OK. Then we've had a miscommunication since you sounded like you wanted to have Zeno resist everything. Although, I honestly don't believe the wording needs to be changed since anyone should be able to figure out that statements like that wouldn't give resistances without further evidence.
Click to expand...
it need to be changed because the description is wrong, I send what the scans mentioned and I did not implied that Zeno resist everything nor I lied like what you said that I did because I did not
Bernkastelll said:
Anyways, the scan says
''He is indeed the strongest, ridiculously stronger than anyone else
''There is no person above him''
'
Click to expand...
 
Bernkastelll said:
it need to be changed because the description is wrong, I send what the scans mentioned and I did not implied that Zeno resist everything nor I lied like what you said that I did because I did not
Click to expand...
I do believe I said we just had a miscommunication, homie. I simply misinterpreted what you said. You did imply however that the current justification would make people think Zeno resisted everything, I think it won't and doesn't need to be changed, as simple as that.
 
the thread is getting off topic a little anyways
read my posts above and I pretty much definitively prove that Zeno has EE resistance
basically what I'm arguing for is
durability unknown, probably 2-C
AP unknown but maybe at least planetary since he was tossing planets around? not sure how that works out but probably far higher
speed is fine on the profile
and finally zeno has Erasure resistance
that's basically all I have to input rn
 
azontr said:
I do believe I said we just had a miscommunication, homie. I simply misinterpreted what you said. You did imply however that the current justification would make people think Zeno resisted everything, I think it won't and doesn't need to be changed, as simple as that.
Click to expand...
I said that the description implies it not that people will belive that it implies it because the description is rated in a wrong way which is why it should be changed to an accurate description like the scan that was sent
 
Bernkastelll said:
I said that the description implies it not that people will belive that it implies it because the description is rated in a wrong way which is why it should be changed to an accurate description like the scan that was sent
Click to expand...
The description does not imply that at all, in my opinion. If anything, it's just referring to Zeno's ability to erase shit as easily as breathing, it does not at all imply that Zeno just resists everything.
Pepsiman25th said:
someone should create a separate CRT for his profile/hax
the one i made was just to add EE res/ possible EE res
Click to expand...
That would be best. If Bern wants to continue the discussion, they can talk to me in a PM or on my profile.
 
azontr said:
Wasn't the consensus just to change the dura rating since it isn't a resistance? AKM has changed the dura rating already, if that's the case.
Click to expand...
the whole point of changing the durability rating was because the zamasu scene was EE not AP so dura can't scale to it
but EE resistance still has to be added in place of durability
 
ZillerBucko said:
the whole point of changing the durability rating was because the zamasu scene was EE not AP so dura can't scale to it
but EE resistance still has to be added in place of durability
Click to expand...
OK?

I guess this works. The dura was changed to a 'possibly' 2-C still, so I'm confused on whether we've accepted it as a EE resistance or not, but do whatever has been accepted I guess.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Didn't we say he didn't hit himself with the attack?
Click to expand...
I've disproved that like 100 times in this thread but people ignored it so this may just result in pointless dbs downgrade again
ZillerBucko said:
hax is always a case by case basis because the term itself is vague, so time stop here only makes it sound like a good argument because the comparison is fundamentally flawed and actually misrepresents the logic of the argument, so that really holds no weight here
it would be best to compare EE to only itself, and we can visibly see that Zeno is making complete contact with his attack that erases what it touches
and yes, we do know that it just erases what it touches from
1. the intitial reaction of zamasu when it seems to touch him
2. the timing of when the time machine avoids being touched by the attack, likely indicating that if it had made contact it would have instantly erased them. the fact that 2 of the kais also escaped with it kinda supports that they knew that would happen as well, which matters considering they probably know more about zeno's powers than anybody there
and also it's pretty much just common sense unless there's proof otherwise
so to sum it up
  • attack erases anything it touches
  • zeno definitely touches it and doesn't get erased
if you say that zeno can choose what it erases regardless of if it touches them or not, then you have to have some kind of proof
but considering that we've already seen EE resistance from characters who are much lower and don't have the ability to erase like frieza, and also the fact that the gods of destruction who should theoretically be able to erase him (if he didn't have EE res) admit to being far below him, I highly doubt the authors writing in the future nor the already established logic will be giving any room for argument against zeno having it as well
if it does come to that though we could always just revert the changes, but until then, the CRT remains correct (for the EE part, not sure about void)
Click to expand...
basically just peep this and a few other things and you can basically see why there's evidence proving he should have been affected by the EE but the fact that he didn't get affected proves EE resistance
and then some more typical narrative based arguments and disproving some false debunks
 
ZillerBucko said:
I've disproved that like 100 times in this thread but people ignored it so this may just result in pointless dbs downgrade again

basically just peep this and a few other things and you can basically see why there's evidence proving he should have been affected by the EE but the fact that he didn't get affected proves EE resistance
and then some more typical narrative based arguments and disproving some false debunks
Click to expand...
Well I see where you're coming from, but I don't see a reason why zeno would target himself with his own attack, it's like saying that a character who creates a big shockwave with ki is also attacking themselves because the attack is hitting everything around them. But I'm staying neutral, so you should try to get an admin to see this comment.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Well I see where you're coming from, but I don't see a reason why zeno would target himself with his own attack, it's like saying that a character who creates a big shockwave with ki is also attacking themselves because the attack is hitting everything around them. But I'm staying neutral, so you should try to get an admin to see this comment.
Click to expand...
This is sort of my opinion as well.
 
This is just stupid now.

The bright light that emanates from Zeno's hand when he is not what erases his targets. The light expanded while Zeno erased Zamasu, but we clearly see that the light did not expand to the size of the universe. Zeno has the ability to selectively erase targets without having to be near him.

He erased Frost in the stands from his pillar by pointing at him.
He erased several universes from within the World of Void by simply raising his hand.

Zeno's Erase technique does not engulf the target in some kind of energy that erases them from existence like the Hakai does. Zeno has the power to just delete things, like an image editing program—he can click on things and press the "delete" button to completely remove them.

Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.

He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
This is just stupid now.

The bright light that emanates from Zeno's hand when he is not what erases his targets. The light expanded while Zeno erased Zamasu, but we clearly see that the light did not expand to the size of the universe. Zeno has the ability to selectively erase targets without having to be near him.

He erased Frost in the stands from his pillar by pointing at him.
He erased several universes from within the World of Void by simply raising his hand.

Zeno's Erase technique does not engulf the target in some kind of energy that erases them from existence like the Hakai does. Zeno has the power to just delete things, like an image editing program—he can click on things and press the "delete" button to completely remove them.

Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.

He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
Click to expand...
And Super Shenron is the "undo" button when he deletes something lol

Anyways, I agree with your post here.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Well I see where you're coming from, but I don't see a reason why zeno would target himself with his own attack, it's like saying that a character who creates a big shockwave with ki is also attacking themselves because the attack is hitting everything around them. But I'm staying neutral, so you should try to get an admin to see this comment.
Click to expand...
well that kinda is what happens with ki but a lot of Ki attacks are like some kind of weird kinetic energy or explosion thing? It's like they would be being "hit" but not really absorbing the impact of the attack. But we also know that Ki itself increases durability, so that likely has something to do with it
we also see it happening with Vegeta blowing himself up vs buu, but the difference is that Vegeta himself is constantly in the radius of the attack so it kinda screws himself too
but regardless, EE ball thingy is different from Ki, and the EE attack is most certainly touching Zeno
you could also say that Zeno's visual thing is just some kind of aura, but that's unlikely because the white balls are visibly expanding from that, which is showing that they are the same thing, and thus, he was still touching the exact same thing that erases shit on contact
but that doesn't even need to be acknowledged anyways since we literally see him absolutely devoured by the EE, which shouldn't be a thing unless obviously EE resistance
Nullflowerblush said:
This is just stupid now.

The bright light that emanates from Zeno's hand when he is not what erases his targets. The light expanded while Zeno erased Zamasu, but we clearly see that the light did not expand to the size of the universe. Zeno has the ability to selectively erase targets without having to be near him.

He erased Frost in the stands from his pillar by pointing at him.
He erased several universes from within the World of Void by simply raising his hand.

Zeno's Erase technique does not engulf the target in some kind of energy that erases them from existence like the Hakai does. Zeno has the power to just delete things, like an image editing program—he can click on things and press the "delete" button to completely remove them.

Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
Zeno erased the universe/Zamasu, not himself.

He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
I'm repeating this, because I need you to understand.
He can select his targets. He selected the universe/Zamasu, not himself.
Click to expand...
It's not stupid and let me explain why
yes, he can select his targets but the fact that he didn't during the zamasu scene is already proven, and the explanation for "why would he do that to himself" is because he didn't have to avoid erasing himself
can does not = did
we already know that he did not, so this point is simply invalid
and it did expand to the size of the universe, it obviously just happened semi offscreen but we know it kept expanding because
1. zamasu literally reacts to it expanding when it starts destroying him
2. we literally see it happen when the time machine teleports away
also, during the scenes of erasing individual people, yeah he does select them individually without the expanding but
the brief moments showing the actual universes erased proves my point as we also see an expanding white light in those scenes doing the exact same thing
when he erases universes it's always an expanding ball, and when he erases small individuals it's just instantaneous and selected
also stop repeating yourself I don't think it's helping your case
the facts are simple, zeno erased the entire universe
he was in the universe
he visibly is caught in the blast as well and we know it made contact with them
if something erases what it makes contact with and zeno makes contact with it and doesn't get erased, the most basic form of 1 2 logic tells us that zeno has ee resistance
once again, it makes sense from both a logical and narrative standpoint
and once again, nobody has presented any anti feats yet.

but I assume you'll be open minded enough to agree with this now that you've thankfully helped me lay out all the counterarguments left to beat
 
Pepsiman25th said:
Just a simple CRT for Zeno resistance
He has EE but no resistance to it?

Durability: Low Multiverse level (Withstood the impact of his own Ki blast destroying the entire future timeline and Infinite Zamasu) (already on his profile, the crt is about adding resistance to EE/void manip to zeno)

Zeno should also have resistance to EE or have "Possible resistance to Existence Erasure" since he survived in the nothingness that he destroyed or maybe "Resistance to Void Manipulation"
Click to expand...
I agree with resistance to EE but I dont believe it would give resistance to Void manipulation since Zeno attack is existence erasure which is sub category of void manipulation, resisting void manipulation would imply that he could resist other applications of void manipulation which is the not the case.

Anyways, reason I agree with that is because Zeno existence erasure was a complete omnidirectional blast which not only covered Zeno but the whole multiverse, the whole multiverse was erased but Zeno was unaffected, even shown by him moving around in erased voids with no effect. That should grant him resistance to existence erasure, because he tanked his own erasure attack which was aimed at erasing the multiverse and guess what? Zeno is part of the said multiverse too.

It wouldn't be a stretch to give Zeno resistance to existence erasure.
 
ZillerBucko said:
well that kinda is what happens with ki but a lot of Ki attacks are like some kind of weird kinetic energy or explosion thing? It's like they would be being "hit" but not really absorbing the impact of the attack. But we also know that Ki itself increases durability, so that likely has something to do with it
we also see it happening with Vegeta blowing himself up vs buu, but the difference is that Vegeta himself is constantly in the radius of the attack so it kinda screws himself too
but regardless, EE ball thingy is different from Ki, and the EE attack is most certainly touching Zeno
you could also say that Zeno's visual thing is just some kind of aura, but that's unlikely because the white balls are visibly expanding from that, which is showing that they are the same thing, and thus, he was still touching the exact same thing that erases shit on contact
but that doesn't even need to be acknowledged anyways since we literally see him absolutely devoured by the EE, which shouldn't be a thing unless obviously EE resistance

It's not stupid and let me explain why
yes, he can select his targets but the fact that he didn't during the zamasu scene is already proven, and the explanation for "why would he do that to himself" is because he didn't have to avoid erasing himself
can does not = did
we already know that he did not, so this point is simply invalid
and it did expand to the size of the universe, it obviously just happened semi offscreen but we know it kept expanding because
1. zamasu literally reacts to it expanding when it starts destroying him
2. we literally see it happen when the time machine teleports away
also, during the scenes of erasing individual people, yeah he does select them individually without the expanding but
the brief moments showing the actual universes erased proves my point as we also see an expanding white light in those scenes doing the exact same thing
when he erases universes it's always an expanding ball, and when he erases small individuals it's just instantaneous and selected
also stop repeating yourself I don't think it's helping your case
the facts are simple, zeno erased the entire universe
he was in the universe
he visibly is caught in the blast as well and we know it made contact with them
if something erases what it makes contact with and zeno makes contact with it and doesn't get erased, the most basic form of 1 2 logic tells us that zeno has ee resistance
once again, it makes sense from both a logical and narrative standpoint
and once again, nobody has presented any anti feats yet.

but I assume you'll be open minded enough to agree with this now that you've thankfully helped me lay out all the counterarguments left to beat
Click to expand...
in case that wasn't really enough to convince you to join the agree side, I'll just ask a simple question
if he was selectively erasing infinite zamasu and it wasn't just an expanding erasing attack, then why was he also going to erase the time machine and goku and friends? and why did he say that "this world must not exist" instead of just saying "zamasu must be erased" or something, since we at least know that not every single millimeter of the universe is zamasu (or else goku would be breathing in zamasu air particles or something and literally just die)
 
also narrative arguments still exist, so please keep that in mind as well
there is really no reason that we know of that frieza should be able to take on EE multiple times while omni king zeno who is literally an EE user that rules over a bunch of EE users who would all kick frieza's ass no diff shouldn't have EE too
 
Pepsiman25th said:
Just a simple CRT for Zeno resistance
He has EE but no resistance to it?

Durability: Low Multiverse level (Withstood the impact of his own Ki blast destroying the entire future timeline and Infinite Zamasu) (already on his profile, the crt is about adding resistance to EE/void manip to zeno)

Zeno should also have resistance to EE or have "Possible resistance to Existence Erasure" since he survived in the nothingness that he destroyed or maybe "Resistance to Void Manipulation"

agree: FluffyCreatureZ, TheGreatJedi13 (only rest to EE), LeSupremeKing1, sanicspood (only Res to EE)
GuildZero (only to EE res)

disagree: Vietthai96

neutral:
Click to expand...
add me to the agrees to EE btw
 
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