(GRACE) Akaza VS Gyomei (7-2-2)

[denzeelmao]

Match Rules

• Both in Character
• Speed is not equal (May change if too unfair)
• Battle Location: Derailed Mugen Train, 2 AM
• Both in 8-A Keys
• Starting Distance: 30 Meters
• Gyomei is marked.

Gyomei's wincon is Akaza fleeing since he really cant kill him. (Discussed Under)
Akaza's wincon is by KO/Death.
Votes

The "Ion need no weapons" Upper Moon: 7 (@Ruenas, @Chronicle, @Halkum145, @denzeelmao, @Cimafranca133, @VladTheImmortal,@YoutubeForKing )

Crazy Blind Man with Flail: 2 (@Kin201,@yqttlsx )

Muzan Demolishes both in an instant (Incon) : 2 (@Dread,@SaberPhantasy9 )

"That is one fine weapon. Your battle spirit is exquisite... Why don't you become a demon?"

"We are proud to live and die as human beings. Don't act like your worthless ideas are supreme and force them on others."

 

[denzeelmao]

Extra Info:
Gyomei has this.

Not this.

So no, he cannot counter the compass' precognition.

 

[Kin201]

Gyomei is stronger, faster, and with Transparent World, he is even much faster. Akaza dies.

 

[denzeelmao]

Gyomei is stronger, faster, and with Transparent World, he is even much faster. Akaza dies.

Compass catches up with the speed.

• Weakness Detection, Strength Perception, Precognition, Reactive Power Level, Enhanced Instinctive Reaction, Enhanced Awareness and Enhanced Accuracy with Compass Needle (Compass Needle allows him to accurately sense a person's Battle Spirit, allowing him to predict their movements, discern their location in his surroundings (even from his blind-spots), and find and instinctively aim for their weak points and vitals with such high accuracy that his attacks are described as "being attracted by magnets" and "clinging" to his opponents. Can tell someone's strength just by looking at them, was able to discern that Kyojuro was a Pillar at a glance. Can instinctively respond to attacks with an appropriate counter, was stated by Giyu to learn to anticipate his every move and strike back with equal accuracy as the fight went on. He can effectively fight and discern his surroundings and track his opponents without a head (deaf and blind) solely through detecting Battle Spirit)

Even if gyomei manages to cut his head off, even with a red blade, he regens it. Because koku also resisted red blades. So did Hantengu, even if it was a lower resistance, the gap between Akaza and Hantengu is very high. We can assume he also resists red blades.


I'm kinda leaning towards Akaza... because of Compass, Precog, RPL, Weakness Detection, and this move specifically.

 

[Kin201]

He adapted to Marked Giyu's speed yes, that's it. We don't know if he can do that to Marked Gyomei, who is faster than him and Giyu already, and with Transparent World, is even much faster. The speed gap is significant.

Akaza can regrow his head here? Gyomei has no wincon then. I thought the reason Akaza could regrow his head was only because he fought Tanjiro? The location is Infinity Castle, so Gyomei cannot last until dawn either.

 

[denzeelmao]

I thought the reason Akaza could regrow his head was only because he fought Tanjiro?

Why would this be the case? He demonstrated the ability to do so, so he can. It wasn't because of Tanjiro. It was because of Akaza's determination to be the "strongest."

He adapted to Mark Giyu's speed yes, that's it. We don't know if he can do that to Marked Gyomei, who is faster than him and Giyu already

Why would it only go up to Marked Giyu? It's in his profile, but it doesn't say "Precog/RPL up to Marked Giyu level", it says "Precognition, RPL."

The location is Infinite Castle, so Gyomei cannot last until dawn either.

Even if the location wasn't IC, I don't see gyomei outlasting infinite stamina honestly, Akaza could range spam.

 

[denzeelmao]

with Transparent World, is even much faster. The speed gap is significant.

This still doesn't mean he'll outspeed him due to Compass's RPL and Precog. It was stated that akaza gives NO openings to his opponent and counters everything perfectly.

 

[Kin201]

So you made this match knowing that Gyomei has no wincon? This is completely unfair. At least change the location to a place where sunrise will appear in 1 or 2 hours. I'd argue Gyomei can last until Akaza either dies of the sunlight or flees.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Unrelated but @denzeelmao @Kin201 i need the arguments both of you here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/8-a-t...und-1-match-7-gyomei-himejima-vs-guts.140557/

 

[denzeelmao]

So you made this match knowing that Gyomei has no wincon? This is completely unfair. At least change the location to a place where sunrise will appear in 1 or 2 hours. I'd argue Gyomei can last until Akaza either dies of the sunlight or flees.

I will be changing the location.

 

[denzeelmao]

Done. the fight should be fair now.

 

[denzeelmao]

This still doesn't mean he'll outspeed him due to Compass's RPL and Precog. It was stated that akaza gives NO openings to his opponent and counters everything perfectly.

His Battle Spirit detection is so accurate that he can find the location of Tanjiro in his surroundings and fight and overpower Giyu without a head, meaning that he is performing those feats while basically being deaf and blind.

Just adding onto it.

 

[Kin201]

Done. the fight should be fair now.

Gyomei's stamina is limited but it is still very remarkable and we know this. He cannot permanently kill Akaza sure, but he definitely has the resilience to last for a few hours imo. So my vote goes to Gyomei under these conditions.

Unrelated but @denzeelmao @Kin201 i need the arguments both of you here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/8-a-t...und-1-match-7-gyomei-himejima-vs-guts.140557/

Probably can't make an argument but I'll follow the thread.

 

[denzeelmao]

So my vote goes to Gyomei under these conditions.

Counted, but.. Whats stopping akaza from hitting an end style on Gyomei? Giyuu said it was inescapable, and could only dodge the deadly blows with dead calm, even then, he was still hit by it. And if both cant win, Shouldnt you vote incon?

 

[Kin201]

Unlike Giyuu, Gyomei is much faster and even has TW that can predict attacks, so I dk. Tanjiro could dodge that with TW.

And if both cant win, Shouldnt you vote incon?

Gyomei lasting until dawn is not a wincon? So basically this match is either Gyomei loses or Akaza flees? That said, if Gyomei knows sunlight is coming, he can restrain Akaza with his chain and just let the sun incinerates him.

 

[denzeelmao]

Tanjiro could dodge that with TW.

Tanjiro could dodge it due to TPW AND Selfless state. Akaza couldn't even sense him.

he can restrain Akaza with his chain and just let the sun incinerates him.

I don't see this happening with compass active. He broke through dead calm which instantly basically erases attacks.

 

[Kin201]

SS does not increase stats. It just allows Tanjiro to erase his presence. Akaza saw Giyuu and Tanjiro in his vicinity and then used the attack. Tanjiro managed to dodge it with Transparent World which viewed Akaza's punches in slow motion while Giyuu was hit and knocked back.

 

[denzeelmao]

SS does not increase stats.

This is very debatable because we can probably make out the fact that SS does boost that.

Like how only the sun breathers get a different hair color when they unlock their marks, and how their mark grows bigger ( even Tanjiros unlocked mark went further when he accessed SS.)

Akaza also comments that he surpassed his speed when he acquired this state. (This correlates to how the compass equalizes speeds, and since the compass didn't detect anything, Tanjiro then got faster due to SS and surpassed Akaza's speed.)

I guess Akaza fleeing can be a wincon, but I kinda think this is a stomp for Akaza due to his technique's strength and his precog.

 

[Kin201]

Gyomei has significantly superior stats and he does have precog too. Akaza "stomping" Gyomei doesn't make sense narratively considering how good he fared against Kokushibo, though I know you just mean he can't kill him permanently.

 

[denzeelmao]

Gyomei has significantly superior stats and he does have precog too.

Compass precog > TPW precog. This is due to TPW not giving Instinctive reaction, but just precognition. Compass gives Instinctive reaction aswell.

 

[denzeelmao]

Bump

 

[denzeelmao]

Bump

 

[Nehz_XZX]

SS does not increase stats. It just allows Tanjiro to erase his presence. Akaza saw Giyuu and Tanjiro in his vicinity and then used the attack. Tanjiro managed to dodge it with Transparent World which viewed Akaza's punches in slow motion while Giyuu was hit and knocked back.

This is very debatable because we can probably make out the fact that SS does boost that.

I'd say that Tanjiro became faster upon attaining Transparent World. At the very least there seems to be a significant difference between before and after gaining Transparent World.

 

[KleinMoretti770]

With the transparent world technique, Gyomei negates the akaza's compass. In addition, we can say that Akazadan is both fast and powerful from his feats on base smell.
My vote for Gyomei

 

[Kin201]

I'd say that Tanjiro became faster upon attaining Transparent World. At the very least there seems to be a significant difference between before and after gaining Transparent World.

That's what I was saying too. SS hasn't been stated to increase stats while Transparent World does increase speed. Also, what is your take on this match?

With the transparent world technique, Gyomei negates the akaza's compass.

Actually, as already stated in post 2, Transparent World doesn't negate compass, it is Selfless State which does that.

Compass precog > TPW precog. This is due to TPW not giving Instinctive reaction, but just precognition. Compass gives Instinctive reaction aswell.

Gyomei's speed advantage still compensates for that. I'm still not buying the argument that Akaza can increase his speed to match Gyomei's. And you forget that Gyomei has Reactive Power level as well.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That's what I was saying too. SS hasn't been stated to increase stats while Transparent World does increase speed. Also, what is your take on this match?

Actually, as already stated in post 2, Transparent World doesn't negate compass, it is Selfless State which does that.

Gyomei's speed advantage still compensates for that. I'm still not buying the argument that Akaza can increase his speed to match Gyomei's. And you forget that Gyomei has Reactive Power level as well.

For now I just prefer to see what others are saying regarding this match though I might say more myself later.

I don't think that we currently separate Transparent World and the Selfless State on the profiles and I don't think that the manga specifically separates these two things either, so this might need a revision if you insist on it.

Akaza does have Reactive Power Level, so something like that does seem conceivable though Gyomei having Reactive Power Level as well is a good point.

 

[denzeelmao]

With the transparent world technique, Gyomei negates the akaza's compass.

He doesn't. I literally explained why he doesn't. How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[denzeelmao]

And you forget that Gyomei has Reactive Power level as well.

I'm not forgetting anything. Compass is way faster than Gyomei's RPL, we see this due to how fast akaza adapts to marked giyu. Almost instantly, even.

Gyomei's take time, though.

 

[denzeelmao]

Gyomei's speed advantage still compensates for that.

You can't counter Instintictve reaction while your speed is also getting matched.

I'm still not buying the argument that Akaza can increase his speed to match Gyomei's.

And why is that? That is the ability of the compass, after all.

 

[Kin201]

You can't counter Instintictve reaction while your speed is also getting matched.

And why is that? That is the ability of the compass, after all.

Gyomei also has Instinctive Reaction. At best this is an assumption to say Akaza can match someone who is much faster than Giyuu, who doesn't even have Transparent World, and thus doesn't even have the ability to predict attacks unlike Gyomei. That's why Akaza tagged him without much effort and you can't say the same to Gyomei. This is more like a battle of attrition, which I believe Gyomei can last until dawn.

 

[denzeelmao]

thus doesn't even have the ability to predict attacks unlike Gyomei

Tanjiro did. It didn't matter.

Gyomei also has Instinctive Reaction.

Giyu also has it on his profile but he couldn't react to Akaza. We can say gyomei's is superior but not comparable to the compass due to tanjiro and giyuu all saying he
cannot be countered, or the fact that he cant be predicted. And the fact that giyuu (the best defensive hashira with dead calm) Couldn't repel akaza's end style.

which I believe Gyomei can last until dawn.

Its also stated that Akaza gives no openings when he fights, but has the perfect counter to every attempt to any attack they dished out.
I really don't see gyomei surviving end style here.

 

[Kin201]

Tanjiro did. It didn't matter.

What matters is that Tanjiro is slower than Akaza and his precog is also different from Gyomei's. Tanjiro predicts with his smelling while Gyomei predicts by seeing inside the body. If Tanjiro could dodge end style with Transparent World, so can Gyomei.

Anyways, I've already voted. Don't really have much to say.

 

[KleinMoretti770]

He doesn't. I literally explained why he doesn't. How did you come to this conclusion?

Akaza can react to attacks with a compass. In addition, this can be overcome with speed. Also I couldn't find your explanation

 

[denzeelmao]

this can be overcome with speed.

Yeah, true, since gyomei is MFTL and Akaza is MHS, sorry forgot.
Yeah no. You cannot overcome Instinctive reaction unless you are tiers above their speed/or you can negate the ability directly.

 

[denzeelmao]

If Tanjiro could dodge end style with Transparent World, so can Gyomei.

He dodged it because Akaza couldn't detect him, so he didn't know where to send the attack in the first place. He shot it out randomly.

Anyways, I've already voted. Don't really have much to say.

I'll count your vote, it wasn't the fact that I didn't want you to vote gyomei. I just wanted to give my take on this.

 

[KleinMoretti770]

Evet, doğru, gyomei MFTL ve Akaza MHS olduğundan, üzgünüm unuttum.
Evet hayır. Hızlarının üzerinde katmanlar olmadıkça/veya yeteneği doğrudan olumsuzlamadıkça, İçgüdüsel tepkinin üstesinden gelemezsiniz.

Where did you make this up? I said, Gyomei~base koku>akaza. Which is how it is, but suddenly you're back in the crossverse.

 

[denzeelmao]

Where did you make this up? I said, Gyomei~base koku>akaza.

Dude... What? What kind of logic is this? You're contradicting so many things by saying that.

Which is how it is, but suddenly you're back in the crossverse.

Cross verse/Inverse, abilities don't really change that much here. It is Instinctive Reaction + Precognition. Way higher than what gyomei can predict.
Gyomei on his profile doesn't resist Precognition nor Instinctive Reaction.
Akaza performed Instinctive Reaction feats while deaf and blind without a head.
Weakness Detection, Strength Perception, Precognition, Reactive Power Level, Enhanced Instinctive Reaction, Enhanced Awareness, and Enhanced Accuracy with Compass Needle.
Gyomei also has RPL but Akaza grows way faster as seen with Marked Giyuu, it was almost instant.
He can also detect Gyomei's openings very easily, and strike with enhanced accuracy, as stated by Tanjiro ' Like magnets attracting to his body. '

 

[denzeelmao]

Let me add some other arguments I saw online that clear it up.

"Akaza has compass needle, what it basically does is make Akaza stronger the stronger his opponent's fighting spirit is. It also gives him a sort of precognition of the attacks from the opponent. This was the issue with Rengoku’s fight as well.
If Gyomei is to win this fight he would have to deduce Akaza’s BDA which will be quite tricky if you ask me. Tanjiro was only able to deduce it due to a statement that Akaza made in the fight between Rengoku and Akaza.
If we are to look at a scenario where he figures out the ability he would still lose considering Akaza can basically regrow his head. But let’s give the big man the best case scenario."

And here's something i saw online I'd like to add.

'“The stronger his battle spirit is, the stronger my compass detection will get”

Welp, Gyomei is doomed. He doesn’t have the Selfless State, so his fight against Akaza is a battle of attrition. Which Akaza would surely win.

Not to mention, Gyomei also doesn’t have the necessary speed to blitz Akaza, to begin with.

“B-But Kokushibo blitzed Akaza, and Gyomei could compete against him!”

Except that Kokushibo chopped off guard, pre Technique Deployment Akaza’s arm off. Therefore it would not be considered a speed blitz feat.
And I'd like to add this on since you like to discuss relativity.'

In the databook, it's stated that Kokushibo And Akaza went into a blood battle ( a death battle for demons )
And kokushibo let him live after the challenge he gave kokushibo. (Or else Akaza wouldn't be alive in the series.)

 

[yqttlsx]

Gyomei wins. Gyomei have a red nichirin sword. This makes it easy for gyomei to win. As for speed; gyomei can dodge and react base kokushibo's attack. and base kokushibo speed>>>>>akaza speed
If you say compass; knowing that an attack will happen does not mean that he can dodge it.

sorry for bad english

 

[denzeelmao]

If you say compass; knowing that an attack will happen does not mean that he can dodge it.

This is wrong. In his profile says it says "Instinctive Reaction." what you are referring to is Precognition.

Not only does he know, but he also dodges instinctively. He doesn't 'only' know it's coming, he also dodges it.

Instinctive Reaction is the ability to react to oncoming attacks without the need for conscious thought. As such, those with this ability will automatically dodge and possibly counter oncoming attacks through muscle memory or instinct. As a result, the user is free to utilize the mental effort that is normally spent on performing these movements on other things.

This is precognition.

Precognition is the ability to see the future. The specifics of the ability, and whether or not they can act on the information they see to change the future, differs depending on the user and verse. The ability may only be useful for the short term; or it may be best for the long term. Precognition can allow characters to react to attacks faster than they'd normally be able to react to. The information it provides may be complex and intricate, or simple and limited, if not inaccurate, while other forms of precognition may be much more accurate.