Gonna trigger both Re:Zero and Gunvolt fans for no reason: Reinhard vs Gunvolt

[Xmark12]

I woke up and chose violence for my first vsbw post back.

Rules:

• Speed Equalized
• Reinhard (Reid Allowed and all Potential Blessings Allowed) vs. Gunvolt (GV3; Base/No Moebius; Anthem Allowed)
• Other than those, Standard Battle Assumptions

Reinhard: 0

Gunvolt: 0

Inconclusive: 1

 

[Smashtwig]

you guys gotta stop doing this to me

 

[SeijiSetto]

what does GV start with? just to get things going

 

[Smashtwig]

I’ll be back since I have a 12 page essay, presentation, prospectus, an exam, all in one week.

But none of GV’s in character moves deal any damage to Reinhardt from the start. Bro is basically moon level and GV is still in the Petaton range. The one move he has is Transmutation which is 4D scaling to his general electrical abilities (I didn’t clarify this as well in the page, my fault, I’ll be doing that in an upcoming CRT). But since that’s inhumane af, he won’t use it until things get really urgent and bad (like, intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles raining on the country bad). It doesn’t really matter what his starting move is.

His main win condition is to go into Primal Dragon State, using his passive instant layered Mind Manip Dragon Radiation to cause Reinhardt to go berserk and tire himself out before GV (GV has the several days feat along with months long feats and even decades long years)- which will work because of his High G Regen (it says High End Mid G, but the description is basically textbook High G). GV doesn’t want to go into this state, but eventually he doesn’t have a choice to and he will go into it after a relatively short amount of time has passed (this is normally a bad thing because he loses his Prevasion, but not for this case)

However, before this state, GV still does have Prevasion so he’s mostly safe from that drawback until he attains his win condition. GV’s Prevasion is really OP and 4D too, so Reinhardt whole “I can get any power” thing may not work thanks to dimensional tiering shit, and also he needs to identify that he needs to hit specifically electrons

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I’ll be back since I have a 12 page essay, presentation, prospectus, an exam, all in one week.

same

But none of GV’s in character moves deal any damage to Reinhardt from the start. Bro is basically moon level and GV is still in the Petaton range. The one move he has is Transmutation which is 4D scaling to his general electrical abilities (I didn’t clarify this as well in the page, my fault, I’ll be doing that in an upcoming CRT). But since that’s inhumane af, he won’t use it until things get really urgent and bad (like, intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles raining on the country bad). It doesn’t really matter what his starting move is.

i would like to know what Reinhards wincon is

His main win condition is to go into Primal Dragon State, using his passive instant layered Mind Manip Dragon Radiation to cause Reinhardt to go berserk and tire himself out

Reinhard resists layered madness manipulation

before GV (GV has the several days feat along with months long feats and even decades long years)- which will work because of his High G Regen (it says High End Mid G, but the description is basically textbook High G). GV doesn’t want to go into this state, but eventually he doesn’t have a choice to and he will go into it after a relatively short amount of time has passed (this is normally a bad thing because he loses his Prevasion, but not for this case)

However, before this state, GV still does have Prevasion so he’s mostly safe from that drawback until he attains his win condition. GV’s Prevasion is really OP and 4D too, so Reinhardt whole “I can get any power” thing may not work thanks to dimensional tiering shit, and also he needs to identify that he needs to hit specifically electrons

identifying that he needs to hit electors bs probably isnt a big deal for him due to his GI but uh, what would he do even if he does identify that? its not like it will cause him to magically be able to kill him permanently

 

[Smashtwig]

i would like to know what Reinhards wincon is

I’m not sure if the fighters are aware of the win conditions for an SBA fight is, but one of them is knocking the other out (or falling unconscious via stamina), which Reinhardt can do with his skill and limiting the strength of his attacks, however if the guy is under the influence of Dragon Radiation he might just go full power at all times and just kill GV over and over until he runs out of stamina.

Again this kind of depends on them actually knowing the rules, maybe in their eyes they fight until they do what they consider is a win.

Reinhard resists layered madness manipulation

From what I’m seeing that’s for Type 3, not by Type 2 which is GV’s. It depends on how many layers of Mind Manip Resist Rein has instead- which is pretty much the whole premise of GV’s best in character argument

identifying that he needs to hit electors bs probably isnt a big deal for him due to his GI but uh, what would he do even if he does identify that? its not like it will cause him to magically be able to kill him permanently

I’m looking through his intelligence section and unfortunately I don’t think it really applies. If I recall Re:Zero is a fantasy world, so they may not even know the existence of electrons (correct me if they do), no matter how much intuition you have if you don’t know about something at all you can’t just write down the answer of electrons. And the rest of his intelligence is just learning capabilities and sword skill- and I don’t think you’d suddenly learn the name of, know the existence of, or recognize electrons just by seeing some blue mirages of a person because “intuition”, when intuition relies on what you already know

Either way it’s still a 4D ability and I’m not sure if Reinhardt’s power creation goes up there

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I’m not sure if the fighters are aware of the win conditions for an SBA fight is, but one of them is knocking the other out (or falling unconscious via stamina), which Reinhardt can do with his skill and limiting the strength of his attacks, however if the guy is under the influence of Dragon Radiation he might just go full power at all times and just kill GV over and over until he runs out of stamina.

Again this kind of depends on them actually knowing the rules, maybe in their eyes they fight until they do what they consider is a win.

From what I’m seeing that’s for Type 3, not by Type 2 which is GV’s. It depends on how many layers of Mind Manip Resist Rein has instead- which is pretty much the whole premise of GV’s best in character argument

Pain Manipulation and Madness Manipulation (Types 2 & 3; Daphne's left eye causes those who look into it to be attacked by agonizing starvation that drives the victim insane near instantaneously, and it is considered unthreatening compared to her right eye. A Witch's Miasma is so potent and voluminous that if a Witch stops holding it back, it will drive most people in their presence to suicidal insanity),
both have +1 layers

I’m looking through his intelligence section and unfortunately I don’t think it really applies. If I recall Re:Zero is a fantasy world, so they may not even know the existence of electrons (correct me if they do), no matter how much intuition you have if you don’t know about something at all you can’t just write down the answer of electrons.

that is literally on his profile, he can answer ANY question based on instinct alone

And the rest of his intelligence is just learning capabilities and sword skill- and I don’t think you’d suddenly learn the name of, know the existence of, or recognize electrons just by seeing some blue mirages of a person because “intuition”, when intuition relies on what you already know

It is specifically called out that his knowledge is unnecessary for his intuition to give him the right answer

Either way it’s still a 4D ability and I’m not sure if Reinhardt’s power creation goes up there

not sure what you mean by this

 

[Smashtwig]

Pain Manipulation and Madness Manipulation (Types 2 & 3; Daphne's left eye causes those who look into it to be attacked by agonizing starvation that drives the victim insane near instantaneously, and it is considered unthreatening compared to her right eye. A Witch's Miasma is so potent and voluminous that if a Witch stops holding it back, it will drive most people in their presence to suicidal insanity),
both have +1 layers

Wait so you mean he has 1 layer of resistances or more? Also I can't find that anywhere on his page

GV's could be scaled above Sumeragi's brainwashing, other Primal Dragons (his Dragonization has grown to the point where bros a literal dragon, and he's also called the King of the Primal Dragons- if I recall he an somewhat control them but idk), and he even might scale above of IP Lumen's control- who mught have even more layers on her own

that is literally on his profile, he can answer ANY question based on instinct alone

It is specifically called out that his knowledge is unnecessary for his intuition to give him the right answer

ain't no way bros hand is gonna write down a word no one has ever seen before that's some BS bro wut da hael

not sure what you mean by this

Like, I would assume even if he got the power to hit electrons, the 4D part might he trouble. Are Blessings like, 4D magic or smth

Even then the Regen acts kinda fast ngl

Tho, I recall Anthem (where the thing comes from) can bring GV from near-unconciousness / unconciousness but it's a pretty shaky argument tbh since this isn't actually Anthem even if it has the same effect and Anthem is one of those friendship power ups so... eh

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wait so you mean he has 1 layer of resistances or more? Also I can't find that anywhere on his page

it got accepted but i havent added to his profile yet, its on page 17 and 18 of the hax layering thread

GV's could be scaled above Sumeragi's brainwashing, other Primal Dragons (his Dragonization has grown to the point where bros a literal dragon, and he's also called the King of the Primal Dragons- if I recall he an somewhat control them but idk), and he even might scale above of IP Lumen's control- who mught have even more layers on her own

upscaling doesnt give you a layer. It seems just an above baseline resistance is enough to resist the ability then

ain't no way bros hand is gonna write down a word no one has ever seen before that's some BS bro wut da hael

Godly intuition is probably one of the most busted things in the verse frfr

Like, I would assume even if he got the power to hit electrons, the 4D part might he trouble. Are Blessings like, 4D magic or smth

he has been hit by 4D stuff before and his Godly intuition can help him dodge against 4D attacks as well and he can easily revive himself anyway

Even then the Regen acts kinda fast ngl

Tho, I recall Anthem (where the thing comes from) can bring GV from near-unconciousness / unconciousness but it's a pretty shaky argument tbh since this isn't actually Anthem even if it has the same effect and Anthem is one of those friendship power ups so... eh

Actually can he come back form his mind being destroyed? Reinhard's EE erases both the mind and soul

 

[Arkenis]

Actually can he come back form his mind being destroyed? Reinhard's EE erases both the mind and soul

He's got mid godly

• Regeneration (High-End Mid-Godly; Joule is directly stated to improve Gunvolt's healing to bring him back to fighting strength, essentially revive. This allows him to regenerate from Tenjian's Seven Slashes, an attack freezes up the concepts of time, space, and soul, before killing those "existences" by smashing them with his below Absolute Zero ice- defying thermodynamics. In addition, the Muse can use this to revive those from Damnatio Memorie, who erases one's existence by destroying all possible pasts that lead them to the moment of being caught by it), Immortality (Type 3)

 

[Fezzih_007]

he has been hit by 4D stuff before and his Godly intuition can help him dodge against 4D attacks

He never did that, what f you talking about?

ain't no way bros hand is gonna write down a word no one has ever seen before that's some BS bro wut da hael

Well, he don't have feats of doing so, but is possible he could do it.
It is that good sometimes;

Are Blessings like, 4D magic or smth

No.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He never did that, what f you talking about?

Regulus's attacks are disconnected from Space-TIme.
His blessings also resists Yin and Yang magic which are Space-Time manipulation

Well, he don't have feats of doing so, but is possible he could do it.
It is that good sometimes;

its literal first description is that he could give any paper of any difficulty and give perfect answers, what are YOU on about?

No.

I would say its a bit more complicated than that

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He's got mid godly

• Regeneration (High-End Mid-Godly; Joule is directly stated to improve Gunvolt's healing to bring him back to fighting strength, essentially revive. This allows him to regenerate from Tenjian's Seven Slashes, an attack freezes up the concepts of time, space, and soul, before killing those "existences" by smashing them with his below Absolute Zero ice- defying thermodynamics. In addition, the Muse can use this to revive those from Damnatio Memorie, who erases one's existence by destroying all possible pasts that lead them to the moment of being caught by it), Immortality (Type 3)

sure but that is soul erasure, what i am asking is if he has any feats of being able to survive mind erasure. that would either incapacitate or kill him for good if he doesn't have a feat

 

[Fezzih_007]

Regulus's attacks are disconnected from Space-TIme.

That dont qualify for 4D, no.

His blessings also resists Yin and Yang magic which are Space-Time manipulation

Being Space-Time manipulation don't make 4D on it own.
And like, what Smash is talking about is Gunvolt intagibility being 4D, which Reinhard can't do anything about it, since he can't interact with 4D stuff.
Even if Regulus attacks are 4D (They not) Him being hit or being able to dodge don't mean anything.

ts literal first description is that he could give any paper of any difficulty and give perfect answers, what are YOU on about?

Where exactly in my statement contradicts what you just said? lol
I said he don't have feats of doing so, but he probally could do it.

 

[Arkenis]

sure but that is soul erasure, what i am asking is if he has any feats of being able to survive mind erasure. that would either incapacitate or kill him for good if he doesn't have a feat

Yeah it can.

In addition, the Muse can use this to revive those from Damnatio Memorie, who erases one's existence by destroying all possible pasts that lead them to the moment of being caught by it), Immortality (Type 3)

• Damnatio Memorie: Layered Timeline Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Spatial Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3), BFR (4D - Multiversal+, via Damnatio Memorie, which is literally called Erasing Existence in Japanese, cutting off the past and all possible pasts of a foe[1], erasing them from all possible existences, as it is tied to Astral Order's abilities and potency- since Adepts and Primal Dragons only have one ability. Should upscale from Wonder Ice Prison, an upgraded variant of Tenjian's Seven Slashes, which targets the concepts / existences of a person’s soul, time, space, and "kills" them entirely- whereas Damnatio Memorie erases the entirety of a person including these aspects of them. Those who manage to survive will be transported to another timeline / alternative universe to fight other people.[2])

 

[Smashtwig]

He's got mid godly

• Regeneration (High-End Mid-Godly; Joule is directly stated to improve Gunvolt's healing to bring him back to fighting strength, essentially revive. This allows him to regenerate from Tenjian's Seven Slashes, an attack freezes up the concepts of time, space, and soul, before killing those "existences" by smashing them with his below Absolute Zero ice- defying thermodynamics. In addition, the Muse can use this to revive those from Damnatio Memorie, who erases one's existence by destroying all possible pasts that lead them to the moment of being caught by it), Immortality (Type 3)

actually recently everyone and their mom is telling me it's High G because it has the textbook definition of it

sure but that is soul erasure, what i am asking is if he has any feats of being able to survive mind erasure. that would either incapacitate or kill him for good if he doesn't have a feat

Well, that's a question I never thought about before. Though I'm sure that's not how the stuff works (like, I'm actually quite sure that the specifics don't matter at these high levels of regen), I can probably give you a really quick answer right now that will satisfy the curiousity.

First off, Septimal powers are completely mind based, any phemonena created by them is essentially a "thought/mental/mind construct", that includes Tenjian who used Seven Slashes (what produces the crazy feat). Once an Adept loses conciousness, their power typically fizzles out instantly- though, there have been exceptions such as Teseo- who has an electron type Septima just like GV's Azure Striker which is considered the ultimate Septima, especially when it comes to the electron stuff

Tenjian in this particular instance was constructed out of his memories itself- and when he uses Seven Slashes, he also freezes himself and does the same effect to himself- a thought construct made out of Tenjian's memories/mind. So more than likely the same happened to victim of Seven Slashes, but even worse

If that's not enough evidence, we have the fact that Septima is considered a "soul given form", and as we previously established, Septima is a Mind-Based thing- so when Tenjian destroys the concept of a person's soul, he's also destroying the mind

Everyone in the verse is born on a spectrum of the Lifestream Lifewave, which determines their physical and cognitive abilities- the higher the stage of the Lifewave the more those two aspects of you are enhanced (and by that logic, if your Lifewave / Life Force is 0, so would those two), and you can say that every lifeform in the verse has the mind as a fundamental part of what it means to "be alive", so when you kill someone in the verse, you're snuffing out their mind too (hence why most of the time Septimal (a stage of the Lifewave) powers dissipate immediately after unconsciousness or death

A stronger piece of evidence is when Joule in GV2 (she fused with Lumen, a psychic manifestation of her ideal self, conciousness included), after being trapped in a Mirror Shard, Tenjian was able to split her into 9 pieces, though her conciousness remained with GV, she was still an entity that consisted of conciousness and Septima (both mental/mind things), and Tenjian still legitimately affected her. So when upscaling that to Seven Slashes, it shouldn't be a surprise that if the entire person ceases to exist so would their conciousness

Lastly, there's Damnatio Memorie, which erases pretty much everything about a target that's established to well... exist- including the inter linked Septima and conciousness

So there's at least 6 ways to argue the stance

Oh right, GV can just PREVADE Damnatio Memorie, though that's only in his humanoid form

There's also some controversy of the Japanese language that makes it hard to understand if soul and mind are connected in the same word, but idk

it got accepted but i havent added to his profile yet, its on page 17 and 18 of the hax layering thread

upscaling doesnt give you a layer. It seems just an above baseline resistance is enough to resist the ability then

Really fast can you explain to me why does Reinard's qualify for layers? I wanna know what the difference is between it and upscaling, (and also what do I call this "upscale" on the page, like, do I say "2 Upscales" or something?)

From what I understand, isn't the whole premise of the Layer vs Upscale thing "if you can withstand it but even more makes u crumple- thats not a layer"- isn't that the same thing with the Depha feat u have? And also, I feel like that Madness Manip is two different like, trees of Mad Manip. One is Type 2 (hunger stuff), and the other is Type 3 (crazy aaa its a witch)

In this case of Dragon Radiation no one really resists the phemoena, the ones that "do" are either already berserk Primal Dragons, or sealed up by Kirin's Radiant Fetters which just say "no" to that with 4D Sealing. The only real except would be Kirin herself who isn't really contested in that department

 

[Smashtwig]

Oh right I should just remind about that 4D Transmutation GV has on hand. Again, it's not the most humane thing but also

He's getting more berserk, and one of his lines when he's berserk is just "I'LL CRUSH YOU". So uh... he might just pull that out before Reinhardt ever reaches the Primal Dragon State he needs to knock the guy out

my fault that I didn't think of the berserkiness just bypassing any humane action GV chooses to do


I should also note that in GV3 pretty much every fight has some context that prevents the protagonists from actively wanting to kill the antagonists. Kirin's kind of a pacifist, and everyone she and Gunvolt fights together (so every fight) do end up being effectively spared because they're either innocent people or their objective was just to defend some artifacts that people are stealing.

In the previous games, where GV is alone, he has ALWAYS killed his opponents with the exception of Copen who he consistently just doesn't want to fight and make peace with. But in an SBA ruling, apparently morals are just off the table so that fights can happen, and GV will probably be thinking to kill this guy since there isn't any Kirin to reign him in- so if he sees nothing is working he's more likely to pull out the 4D Transmutation

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Really fast can you explain to me why does Reinard's qualify for layers? I wanna know what the difference is between it and upscaling, (and also what do I call this "upscale" on the page, like, do I say "2 Upscales" or something?)

From what I understand, isn't the whole premise of the Layer vs Upscale thing "if you can withstand it but even more makes u crumple- thats not a layer"- isn't that the same thing with the Depha feat u have? And also, I feel like that Madness Manip is two different like, trees of Mad Manip. One is Type 2 (hunger stuff), and the other is Type 3 (crazy aaa its a witch)

In this case of Dragon Radiation no one really resists the phemoena, the ones that "do" are either already berserk Primal Dragons, or sealed up by Kirin's Radiant Fetters which just say "no" to that with 4D Sealing. The only real except would be Kirin herself who isn't really contested in that department

i have to leave rn but the diff between a layer and a upscale is that layers are granted when you pierce a resistance

 

[Smashtwig]

Also my fault about the whole "no one resists Dragon Radiation", Djinn does do that and I think later gets possessed by Azure Spirits which do that lol
- i also didn't count for the people that resist mind manip who "should" resist Dragon Radiation based on VSBW rulings, I referred to just the specific resistance to the radiation itself (Kirin is the only one who has resistant to SPECIFCIALLY DR). But according to how VSBW, there's a lot of other feats related to it

if "piercing resistances" counts as a layer, there's plenty of mind manip resist feats to go around that Dragon Radiation may just surpass entirely- because Type 2 is literally just "Mind Manip makes u go mad so it's really just mind manip"


Fricking- alright that's not an easy to understand explaination, so- lemme try again from scratch, just forget the whole thing about "no one resists DR" to make it simplier on urself:

Dragon Radiation is Mind Manip effectively cuz that's what Type 2 is. There's a lot of mind manip resistance stuff like shaking off brainwashing and OP af Muse Powers (latter is better in a quality sense and not just "moar brainwashing strength go brr"- it actually is better in the sense that it was gonna be able to control someone who was just immune to brainwashing)- so you add those guys up


I should mention that for Dragon Radiation, it's not really about "how much radiation you can endure" its more like the quality of radiation. For example, the Primal Dragons that GV upscales from are just unable to infect others that have the ability to spread the radiation further, whereas GV's can inflict people and give them the ability to afflict others. So there's multiple tiers/layers of Dragon Radiation too that aren't just reliant on "moar radiation durr"- which adds to the whole mind stuff


The other interpretation of this chain that has nothing to do with just "more power = more resistance", and using actual layers (the new definition we be using right now) brings it up to 4D which is what is not on the page rn (but I might make it happen in a CRT anyways)


at this point i might rather roll with the 4D Transmutation Argument than this shit bruh this is confusing af now

 

[Bobsican]

In the previous games, where GV is alone, he has ALWAYS killed his opponents with the exception of Copen who he consistently just doesn't want to fight and make peace with. But in an SBA ruling, apparently morals are just off the table so that fights can happen, and GV will probably be thinking to kill this guy since there isn't any Kirin to reign him in- so if he sees nothing is working he's more likely to pull out the 4D Transmutation

Oh no, by SBA that still remains as a factor, in fact that's part of the reason Barney the Dinosaur is banned from versus threads, but regardless, by SBA the characters see the opponent as a legitimate threat to everything they know or care about, so there's minimal incentive to hold back here, especially as the rules also prevent them from just becoming friends unless stuff like mind hax is a factor.

 

[Smashtwig]

By SBA the characters see the opponent as a legitimate threat to everything they know or care about.

Alright that's enough incentive for GV to at least try it once. Not saying it'd be the first move but it'll pop up at least once before he goes Primal Dragon

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Alright that's enough incentive for GV to at least try it once. Not saying it'd be the first move but it'll pop up at least once before he goes Primal Dragon

and apparently Reinhard's sleep hax would work?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

that is literally on his profile, he can answer ANY question based on instinct alone

NLF

 

[Smashtwig]

and apparently Reinhard's sleep hax would work?

Energy Absorption & Power Nullification (Because of his defective Gate– which can't release Mana in exchange for having strong absorption of Mana– Reinhard acts as a beacon for Mana, which blindly follows him, preventing Magicians or Spirits from using it. Magic in his presence has it's formation unraveled, neutralizing the excess Mana)
- Sleep Manipulation (Can cause people to become unconscious by draining their mana)

This one right? GV's Mana is his EP in this case, and in addition, Septima has no limits as to how much "juice" it has before it runs out. So long as your conscious you can use your powers. But even then, GV has had infinite EP ever since GV1's Anthem, which GV3 Gunvolt has demonstrated to be equal are superior to even without the GV3 Anthem (as in, having infinite EP). Even in cases where he does run out of EP he straight up regenerates it all the way back up instantly

In addition to having infinite EP to Rein to absorb (thus never getting to 0), Gunvolt has overall resistance to Power Nullification and Absorption like Greed Snatcher (4D), which the Sleep Manip is reliant on.

And along with that, while we see Dogvolt sleep (yes some girl just turns him into her dog that she plays frtch with), I am highly doubtful that he will stay that way considering Primal Dragonization (turning back into a Primal Dragon) seems relatively painful, like really painful according to cutscenes (going like AAAAAAAAA all the time too), but if you still consider it to work GV was literally fighting while "asleep" if you can count that as asleep. I sincerely doubt you can actually put him to sleep by any means

The Azure Striker can also tweak someone's biology, so he can likely wake himself up too by passively sparking all over the place. And even then, so long as Kirin is around, GV will go Primal Dragon State, kind of how it's supposed to work, the guy was constantly needed to be sealed at all times even when he's "asleep" for decades. And when he gets to Primal Dragon State, he could cause Reinhard to go berserk and probably hit him out of it anyways

In addition the sleep manip mentioned seems like its caused by being tired that your Mana is drained. Again, GV probably won't run out, and he'll recharge it pretty much instantly- but he's also a berserk monster that has this absurd stamina that wouldn't just fall after being drained of EP as he constantly gets stronger

I still prefer the first argument of infinite EP anyways, but it feels like one of those disingenuous things to assume that the big raging godzilla monster just randomly goes to sleep while his powers are constantly causing him to go AAAAAAAAAA without his consent- and he's been using this increasing power constantly for decades. That said, if he can get past the infinite EP, this could happen, this could not happen, it'd be ambiguous so it  might be a win condition since we dont know how that interacts (but i can see GV4 prequel shit just ruining the argument later on cuz Azure Striker is OP af)



Also, another argument is that GV Resists his life force (what Mana is in ReZero) being drained by Gibril, who directly states she does that with her Septima, supported by Copen's EX Weapon replica of her Septima that is stated to drain life energy

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Snip

In cocnlusion, this match is a stomp and should be closed

 

[Smashtwig]

I'm not exactly sure about that

Why can't Reinhard identify that he needs to pierce High G Mid Regen? Well i guess hed need to figure out that he needs to kill GV on a conceptual mind, body, soul, spatiotemporal, and infinite past level huh, but eh that may be NLF

And at any point he could still knock GV out with a hard but controlled hit that doesn't immediately kill, and as for the whole sleep thing the main concrete reason it doesn't work is that is because he can't drain stuff, sure I made an argument that even if he does get it off GV can break out but it's different if bro just gets hit... really hard and conks out

Even GVs main win condition being the berserk Dragon Radiation (I genuinely dislike the 4D Transmutation argument not just because of character but the vagueness of how it's down- we know it's similar to how GV helps with Kirins Arc Chain which is similar to it, but this specific application is done like, once- Rein may jusy be able to intuitively and instinctively prevent it), isn't guaranteed to work, Reinhard can still throw out a relatively weak attack and still knock the dude out.

Reinhard also has this weird anti-lightning ability that just doesnt let him be hit by GVs attacks too

Still a High Diff fight for me since GVs win conditions are not ones he likes using, one of them reliant on him unwillingly stalling for time

 

[Smashtwig]

I'm not exactly sure about that

Why can't Reinhard identify that he needs to pierce High G Mid Regen? Well i guess hed need to figure out that he needs to kill GV on a conceptual mind, body, soul, spatiotemporal, and infinite past level huh, but eh that may be NLF

And at any point he could still knock GV out with a hard but controlled hit that doesn't immediately kill, and as for the whole sleep thing the main concrete reason it doesn't work is that is because he can't drain stuff, sure I made an argument that even if he does get it off GV can break out but it's different if bro just gets hit... really hard and conks out

Even GVs main win condition being the berserk Dragon Radiation (I genuinely dislike the 4D Transmutation argument not just because of character but the vagueness of how it's done- we know it's similar to how GV helps with Kirins Arc Chain which is similar to it, but this specific application is done like, once- ), isn't guaranteed to work, Reinhard can still throw out a relatively weak attack and still knock the dude out.

Oh, do we even know how a berserk Reinhard fights?

Reinhard also has this weird anti-lightning ability that just doesnt let him be hit by GVs attacks too

Still a High Diff fight for me since GVs win conditions are not ones he likes using, one of them reliant on him unwillingly stalling for time, and a stamina battle.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

NLF

I hope you learn to read someday ❤

I'm not exactly sure about that

Why can't Reinhard identify that he needs to pierce High G Mid Regen? Well i guess hed need to figure out that he needs to kill GV on a conceptual mind, body, soul, spatiotemporal, and infinite past level huh, but eh that may be NLF

He can do every one of that except conceptual which means its not about why he wouldnt do but more that he CANT do it

And at any point he could still knock GV out with a hard but controlled hit that doesn't immediately kill, and as for the whole sleep thing the main concrete reason it doesn't work is that is because he can't drain stuff, sure I made an argument that even if he does get it off GV can break out but it's different if bro just gets hit... really hard and conks out

Even GVs main win condition being the berserk Dragon Radiation (I genuinely dislike the 4D Transmutation argument not just because of character but the vagueness of how it's down- we know it's similar to how GV helps with Kirins Arc Chain which is similar to it, but this specific application is done like, once- Rein may jusy be able to intuitively and instinctively prevent it), isn't guaranteed to work, Reinhard can still throw out a relatively weak attack and still knock the dude out.

Reinhard also has this weird anti-lightning ability that just doesnt let him be hit by GVs attacks too

Still a High Diff fight for me since GVs win conditions are not ones he likes using, one of them reliant on him unwillingly stalling for time

If he can be knocked out like that then i suppose Reinhard wins because he has a similar ability to conquerers haki that just knocks people out, Godky intuition would probably tell him to do that
Reinhard can knock him out physically using pressure points i suppose
Àlso as long as his energy isnt infinite or 4D Reinhard could sleep manipulate him but...yeah

 

[Smashtwig]

If he can be knocked out like that then i suppose Reinhard wins because he has a similar ability to conquerers haki that just knocks people out

Bro where r u getting this info I can't see any of that on his page

(This is OPs for reference)

• Sleep Manipulation (Those who fall victim to this Haki are capable of falling unconscious due to the effects, whether it's human beings or animals[79][16][80][67][1][81][82][68])

Godky intuition would probably tell him to do that

Bro this stuff is the most plug the controller in thing possible how does anyone win against this guy without it being a stomp bruh. Can u explain how it isn't NLF?

Reinhard can knock him out physically using pressure points i suppose

...i dont think thats how pressure points work unless Rein has shown he can do that which probably isn't on the page either fawk

Even then since u said Rein can't do the Conceptual stuff (why can't he just learn to hit those with his intuition?), Prevasion works on conceptual attacks (not sure if it matters in this case) and is more importantly, 4D (Layered, though layered is questionable andi might remove it via CRT), dimensional tiering kinda just overrides

Rein's best option is knocking GV out in his Dragon State where prevasion isn't a thing (and also where GV can't infinitely fly and teleport anymore). Since GV will go Primal Dragon State whether he gets knocked out or not. Dragon Radiation takes effect and I'm assuming Rein would attempt to kill during that, and that'll not be fun


Wouldn't be surprised if he can do that, but with everything else in play (including the transmutation i dont like), GV should still win this high-diff

Àlso as long as his energy isnt infinite or 4D Reinhard could sleep manipulate him but...yeah

Unfortunate lol

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bro where r u getting this info I can't see any of that on his page

Reinhard don't have Haki of conqueror exactly, but he did something similar in a side story, and since no one knows how to name it, we just says is the Haki of conqueror.
The feat in question.

Spoiler: Haki of conqueror

The men were stunned into silence. This was partially due to confusion at the inconsistency of the young man’s speech pattern, and largely due to his glare; they felt completely paralyzed, as if trapped in a never-ending nightmare.

The Masked Knight shrugged his shoulders at the men incapacitated by his gaze. “One more thing: though I feel bad about doing this, I’m going to have to knock each and every one of you out… Hope you understand.”

“The hell are you sayi…” As one of the men voiced his objection to the Masked Knight’s absurd declaration, he suddenly felt as though he was losing consciousness. “What the…?”

Though the man managed to pull himself together before completely blacking out, the same could not be said about the person next to him who was on the ground with his eyes rolled back—in fact, he was not alone. One after another, men collapsed all around, with only a little more than half of the 200 men remaining standing by the end of it.

“—More than half of you remain. I’m impressed. You possess a much stronger core than I expected,” muttered the Masked Knight to himself in surprise after knocking out nearly 100 people just by glaring as he looked around at the men still standing.

While It is cool, you can counter that by having strong enough willpower. The reason is not on his profile is because is not accepted yet.

 

[Zabazab]

So many words, this is hard to parse.

But I heard Satella was calling Regular Corny Ass's Authority 4D again— it isn't. The only 4D stuff in the verse isn't on any pages yet.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

snip

oh it isnt? too bad then

Bro where r u getting this info I can't see any of that on his page

(This is OPs for reference)

• Sleep Manipulation (Those who fall victim to this Haki are capable of falling unconscious due to the effects, whether it's human beings or animals[79][16][80][67][1][81][82][68])

fezzih posted that above

Bro this stuff is the most plug the controller in thing possible how does anyone win against this guy without it being a stomp bruh. Can u explain how it isn't NLF?

it isnt an NLF because it is literally the description of his ability and its backed by feats, it gives him the correct thing to do in a given situation. Normally this doesnt necessarily help him in all scenarios (Read: him somehow being stonewalled by his father by holding his , not killing Regulus by nuking the city etc.) but that is because of either PiS (Heinkel gets blitzstomped ) or because people would be harmed in the process (50 wives would need to be killed and since he is practically launching a nuke everybody in the vicinity would die as well)
You can also bypass this by having abilites that are faster in combat (gremux's thought based erasure hax) and can cause him to lose instantly as well (Previously he would get death manipulated infinitely against Ainz due to his passive death hax which he at that time didnt have any resistance to)
So yeah, depending on the situation the Godly instinct isnt a stomp

...i dont think thats how pressure points work unless Rein has shown he can do that which probably isn't on the page either fawk

he can do everything in the verse aside from conceptual cutting which yeah includes pressure points (though he hasnt been shown to be able to do so but he def can if needs to, the blessing of the sword saint literally allows him to do that)

Even then since u said Rein can't do the Conceptual stuff (why can't he just learn to hit those with his intuition?), Prevasion works on conceptual attacks (not sure if it matters in this case) and is more importantly, 4D (Layered, though layered is questionable andi might remove it via CRT), dimensional tiering kinda just overrides

well yeah then it is impossible for Rein to kill him
about conceptual stuff, Reinhard probably does have it and in fact we are currently in the process of upgrading the entire verse and it does include conceptual stuff down the line so he will probably have that added in a few months but for now yeah he doesnt have access to it

Rein's best option is knocking GV out in his Dragon State where prevasion isn't a thing (and also where GV can't infinitely fly and teleport anymore). Since GV will go Primal Dragon State whether he gets knocked out or not. Dragon Radiation takes effect and I'm assuming Rein would attempt to kill during that, and that'll not be fun

teleportation or flight isnt that big of a deal because even fodder characters can deal with teleportation and Reinhard himself can basically fly, not sure what Dragon radiation does can you explain?

Wouldn't be surprised if he can do that, but with everything else in play (including the transmutation i dont like), GV should still win this high-diff

btw the skill gap is massive, does GV need to land hits to get his transmutation in effect?

Unfortunate lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So many words, this is hard to parse.

But I heard Satella was calling Regular Corny Ass's Authority 4D again— it isn't. The only 4D stuff in the verse isn't on any pages yet.

shhhh (Regular Corny ass is beyond spatio-temporal dimensions (=tier 1))

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

it isnt an NLF because it is literally the description of his ability and its backed by feats, it gives him the correct thing to do in a given situation. Normally this doesnt necessarily help him in all scenarios (Read: him somehow being stonewalled by his father by holding his , not killing Regulus by nuking the city etc.) but that is because of either PiS (Heinkel gets blitzstomped ) or because people would be harmed in the process (50 wives would need to be killed and since he is practically launching a nuke everybody in the vicinity would die as well)
You can also bypass this by having abilites that are faster in combat (gremux's thought based erasure hax) and can cause him to lose instantly as well (Previously he would get death manipulated infinitely against Ainz due to his passive death hax which he at that time didnt have any resistance to)
So yeah, depending on the situation the Godly instinct isnt a stomp

His intelligence will be limited to those feats, otherwise it's a NLF.

shhhh (Regular Corny ass is beyond spatio-temporal dimensions (=tier 1))

You're wrong, it's beyond omnipotence.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

His intelligence will be limited to those feats, otherwise it's a NLF.

obviously

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

obviously

Getting full mark on a test with instinct VS creating Perpetual motion machine and understanding everything. Which of these is an intelligence feat?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Getting full mark on a test with instinct VS creating Perpetual motion machine and understanding everything. Which of these is an intelligence feat?

when did i say it was an intelligence feat?

anyways if its possible for him to make smth then he would be able to do so due to being instantly perfect at it along with his GI telling him the right answer, author has basically confirmed that he is good at everything

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

anyways if its possible for him to make smth then he would be able to do so due to being instantly perfect at it along with his GI telling him the right answer, author has basically confirmed that he is good at everything

That's why it's a NLF. Unlike the author we don't glaze Reinhard.

 

[Smashtwig]

Spoiler: Haki of conqueror

The men were stunned into silence. This was partially due to confusion at the inconsistency of the young man’s speech pattern, and largely due to his glare; they felt completely paralyzed, as if trapped in a never-ending nightmare.

The Masked Knight shrugged his shoulders at the men incapacitated by his gaze. “One more thing: though I feel bad about doing this, I’m going to have to knock each and every one of you out… Hope you understand.”

“The hell are you sayi…” As one of the men voiced his objection to the Masked Knight’s absurd declaration, he suddenly felt as though he was losing consciousness. “What the…?”

Though the man managed to pull himself together before completely blacking out, the same could not be said about the person next to him who was on the ground with his eyes rolled back—in fact, he was not alone. One after another, men collapsed all around, with only a little more than half of the 200 men remaining standing by the end of it.

“—More than half of you remain. I’m impressed. You possess a much stronger core than I expected,” muttered the Masked Knight to himself in surprise after knocking out nearly 100 people just by glaring as he looked around at the men still standing.

While It is cool, you can counter that by having strong enough willpower. The reason is not on his profile is because is not accepted yet.

I see, these look like fodder enemies tho. For some reason Supernatural Willpower is no longer on GV’s page, I probably replaced it with another word, but GV’s willpower is quite something better than that

First off, Septima is deadass based on willpower, the more emotional, angry, or berserk you get (or the more will you have to beat your enemy), the stronger you become with sheer will, and GV can increase his strength (directly correlated to his willpower) from a 7-A to H6A level. In addition it brings about a whole bunch of resistances to hax and even power nullification to aura based effects (which this is- perhaps even more hax we don’t have much info on)

There’s also lore shit where his entire world that he knew was shattered and for six months he was so mentally broken he thought he was hallucinating stuff yet still had the will to continue on while being endlessly chased after an entire day of full power battling and also dying

He also has the classic anime willpower power up thing in general

So yeah, I think it’d be better than some normal soldiers, in addition to all the sleep arguements I made with Dragonvolt earlier

So many words, this is hard to parse.

But I heard Satella was calling Regular Corny Ass's Authority 4D again— it isn't. The only 4D stuff in the verse isn't on any pages yet.

May I know what this 4D stuff is and how it relate to Reinhard. Because that relates to his interactions with GV’s 4D Prevasion

oh it isnt? too bad then

(This refers to the Haki stuff), I’m gonna take it as if it was accepted. There’s no point in not including it it’s gonna be in there anyways later on

it isnt an NLF because it is literally the description of his ability and its backed by feats, it gives him the correct thing to do in a given situation. Normally this doesnt necessarily help him in all scenarios (Read: him somehow being stonewalled by his father by holding his , not killing Regulus by nuking the city etc.) but that is because of either PiS (Heinkel gets blitzstomped ) or because people would be harmed in the process (50 wives would need to be killed and since he is practically launching a nuke everybody in the vicinity would die as well)
You can also bypass this by having abilites that are faster in combat (gremux's thought based erasure hax) and can cause him to lose instantly as well (Previously he would get death manipulated infinitely against Ainz due to his passive death hax which he at that time didnt have any resistance to)
So yeah, depending on the situation the Godly instinct isnt a stomp

Bro the amount of rizz you can have with this power…

I guess the instant transmutation would work, but probably not his first move, buying Rein some time

he can do everything in the verse aside from conceptual cutting which yeah includes pressure points (though he hasnt been shown to be able to do so but he def can if needs to, the blessing of the sword saint literally allows him to do that)

Aight bro I’ll take ur word for it GV has all the verse powers too but not in this key sadge

Not sure if big giant dragons have pressure points tho especially the one that’s gonna be passively making Rein berserk and making him do kill shots more than half the time

well yeah then it is impossible for Rein to kill him
about conceptual stuff, Reinhard probably does have it and in fact we are currently in the process of upgrading the entire verse and it does include conceptual stuff down the line so he will probably have that added in a few months but for now yeah he doesnt have access to it

Yeah I’m just gonna say he can conceptually hit stuff for this match. No point of doing a match if the CRT is just gonna delete the match right after. But that’s not the point, Prevasion (the whole intangible electron thing) is a 4D thing that intangs 4D attacks, potentially layered too (u can ignore the layer if you like, I’m still unsure of it’s actual existence). So I gotta know, what are the only 4D things that exist in the verse that can let Rein do this

Heck I’m not even sure if it’s still electrons anymore because it can just work on existence erasure

Also, reminder that Prevasion doesn't exist in the Dragon State that he will eventually reach though Rein would have to deal with Dragon Radiation in exchange

teleportation or flight isnt that big of a deal because even fodder characters can deal with teleportation and Reinhard himself can basically fly, not sure what Dragon radiation does can you explain?

Fair enough. But the Dragon Radiation is the whole madness/berserk thing we were discussing earlier and can be multi-layered or be 4D (what I’ll probably do in the CRT, but you’re free to ignore 4D if you wish cuz I’m not sure if it’ll pass)- which you… didn’t seem to come up with a counter argument for resisting since you switching the conversation to sleep hax

Of course theres still a chance that Reinhard just randomly hits just weak enough to do a knockout instead of a kill shot, which kinda makes this not a total stomp in GVs favor but still really hard for rein

btw the skill gap is massive, does GV need to land hits to get his transmutation in effect?

Nah, Septima is thought based, in the feat he just thinks about it and then it happens (he did it to his friends because lore). So here he’d likey just think about turning Reinhard into EM Waves and boom he’s gone.

Again I personally don’t like the argument, but I have to represent all of views people could, will, and have argued for GV’s side. So I have to put my own personal opinions aside

The fact that he can do at any time it is a large advantage, but it’s not guaranteed to happen. It’s more of a supporting “if that’s not enough” kind of argument that tips the scales in his favor to not be a complete stomp thanks to it not always happening if this fight was done like a 100 times.




Also, I prefer using unaccepted arguments from my opponent’s side so that way we don’t waste all of our time on this match because a revision. I prefer keeping matches on the pages lol, I don’t wanna just delete them off the pages as soon as we get them off because then wtf was the point in all of this lol


Btw Xmark, GV FRA

 

[Zabazab]

I see, these look like fodder enemies tho.

Yeah these were fodder. The feat's main draw is the number of people affected. A guy mostly equal to Reinhard could do this to characters with supernatural willpower though:

Without exuding any pressure, merely standing still,[4] his existence gives off the same presence as a Witch, which causes extreme fear,[15] effecting people even after they overcome the initial fear,[15] and causes others to vomit,[15] completely overwhelming them.[16] By merely smiling with killing intent, others around him experience overwhelming terror,[4] to the degree that they would outright die from the power in his eyes alone. Superior to Cecilus, who has an aura of swordsmanship that causes extreme fear.[17] Fighting spirit can cause those around to feel like their skin is on fire[18], and makes it feel as if the surroundings is shaking[19]

May I know what this 4D stuff is and how it relate to Reinhard. Because that relates to his interactions with GV’s 4D Prevasion

Again, it's not accepted/on pages yet, so it's just for the fun of discussion.

Basically, Reinhard can beat the soul of the world itself in a fight. This soul of the world is the Od Lagna, and is the one that grants his Blessings, but it's also an existence that partially exists as a different, endless white dimension where souls get cleansed for re-use. This Od Lagna is also one of the entities that view the world as a mere play or game, and control all of fate at will.