Girl that stomps boku vs girl that stomps goku

[DaimaouAshura]

Though even if I'm debating this I'm still betting Arale winning here because her voodoo is thought based, Seifuku's needs to pay travel expenses.

 

[Greenshifter]

Her 4th wall break is just her leaving the verse, which is at best 4-D. You surely isn't telling me that a being who can access 1-B spaces cant reach her after she is leaving a 4-D structure, are you? Because that'd be NLF

You guys need to remember that plot manip is just meta reality warping that addresses powers that we already have in a meta-fictional way. That is all.

I can sorta see higher-D spaces if we include reality-fiction transcendencies. But I’m not conceding that point since I still think that it’s also a matter/layer of abstractness.

However “just leaving a 4D space” certainly doesn’t cut it. That’s literally implying everyone with dimensional travel can 4th wall break.

 

[Greenshifter]

Arale's 4th wall space is like a 4D construct so a char with 4D construct reaching abilities = can affect her.

There no proof of the size of whatever is beyond the 4th wall, it could very well be 3D but outside a 4D construct. The size of what is beyond the 4th wall isn’t relevant here.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

I can sorta see higher-D spaces if we include reality-fiction transcendencies. But I’m not conceding that point since I still think that it’s also a matter/layer of abstractness.

However “just leaving a 4D space” certainly doesn’t cut it. That’s literally implying everyone with dimensional travel can 4th wall break.

No, no, it doesn't say they can 4th wall break, just that they can affect a 4th wall breaker of that power, hiding beyond their fourth wall.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Like I said, it's because she comes from a metafiction. If your verse isn't a metafiction (like Daimaou or Homestuck for example) then it wont be potential plothax/4th wall break like hers. Therefore not all dimensional travels are inherent 4th wall breaks.

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually a funny thing happens if you guys apply your reasoning. Let’s limit Arale to beyond low 2-C range for a sec. Now Whis who can travel between universes can travel to beyond the 4th wall and kick Arale’s ass with 0 feats of doing so.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No he cant because DBS isnt metafiction like Arale's verse.

 

[Greenshifter]

No, no, it doesn't say they can 4th wall break, just that they can affect a 4th wall breaker of that power, hiding beyond their fourth wall.

So they can’t break the wall or go past the wall, but they can affect someone who is behind it? Dang, now that is some voodoo type shit

 

[Orange]

In other words a character doesn't need "4th wall hax" to attack Arale beyond it, they just need to have the range to hit something that is equally far away or complex. Arale's 4th wall space is like a 4D construct so a char with 4D construct reaching abilities = can affect her.

Leaving 4D Space is completely different than Leaving the plot/breaking the 4th wall. It's like saying "a higher dimensional being can effect lower dimensional NEP beings". You need actual feats of interacting with 4th wall. 4th wall is a space(?) Between fiction and reality [or a fictionalised version of our reality] because if just leaving spaces is enough to interact with 4th wall, then Even 2D beings will qualify for that.

 

[Planck69]

It's almost as if the 4th Wall isn't some special place beyond a meta representation of the setting.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

There no proof of the size of whatever is beyond the 4th wall, it could very well be 3D but outside a 4D construct. The size of what is beyond the 4th wall isn’t relevant here.

When there's no proof of the size isn't the lowest possible denominator used. Hence why I said 4D

 

[Greenshifter]

No he cant because DBS isnt metafiction like Arale's verse.

Interesting and why is Lavos “metafiction” or “any random higher-D being” for that matter?

 

[Orange]

No he cant because DBS isnt metafiction like Arale's verse.

Then sailor can't effect Arale, since it's not metaficional, right?
She either can [unproven] or can't [thus contracting the opposite side earlier statement].

 

[Greenshifter]

It's almost as if the 4th Wall isn't some special place beyond a meta representation of the setting.

It certainly is in Arale’s case. She can dodge and do insane shit from there. People with plot manipulation can’t even affect her there.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I never said Lavos comes from metafiction. What arale is doing is just fancy dimensional travel, its not inherently superior than any other power in the same way Plothax isn't. So both arale and lavos have the same degree of dimensional travel as they both can leave 4-D space

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Leaving 4D Space is completely different than Leaving the plot/breaking the 4th wall. It's like saying "a higher dimensional being can effect lower dimensional NEP beings". You need actual feats of interacting with 4th wall. 4th wall is a space(?) Between fiction and reality [or a fictionalised version of our reality] because if just leaving spaces is enough to interact with 4th wall, then Even 2D beings will qualify for that.

I mean, just look at the questions and answers thread I made, other answers here too
Because that's exactly how it works. Enough range means you can reach them. It was already said a lot of times, the power doesn't need to be named the exact same, just have equally powerful applications.
Also stop with the NEP and beyond 4th wall comparisons, they're completely different powers, using rules of what works against one to back up what does against the other doesn't work

 

[Planck69]

It certainly is in Arale’s case. She can dodge and do insane shit from there. People with plot manipulation can’t even affect her there.

Oh wow, she can move and act there. And resist plot manipulation too.

 

[Orange]

I never said Lavos comes from metafiction. What arale is doing is just fancy dimensional travel, its not inherently superior than any other power in the same way Plothax isn't. So both arale and lavos have the same degree of dimensional travel.

But ..... both are completely different? Dimensionally travel doesn't grant you feats of interacting with 4th wall breaking [unless it shown feat of doing]

 

[Planck69]

And comparing NEP to 4th Wall Breaking is some next level stuff.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Oblivion Yet erasing someone from the plot is more potent than erasing someone from existence. Similarly to jumping out of the plot is more impressive than jumping out of a universe.

 

[Greenshifter]

And comparing NEP to 4th Wall Breaking is some next level stuff.

It gets the point across. Arale is non-existent in the plot when she does her thing anyways.

 

[Orange]

I mean, just look at the questions and answers thread I made, other answers here too
Because that's exactly how it works. Enough range means you can reach them. It was already said a lot of times, the power doesn't need to be named the exact same, just have equally powerful applications.
Also stop with the NEP and beyond 4th wall comparisons, they're completely different powers, using rules of what works against one to back up what does against the other doesn't work

Then using dimensionall travel and higher dimension doesn't equate to 4th wall breaking, because both are different powers and achieve different [but tiny bit similar]

 

[Planck69]

It gets the point across. Arale is non-existent in the plot when she does her thing anyways.

I have no words....

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Boy, arguing this point is like saying if someone has six and the other half a dozen, the one with half a dozen isn't equal to six because they aren't written the same even though both are where it matters, same level.

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh wow, she can move and act there. And resist plot manipulation too.

Sounds like a special place outside the meta representation of the setting to me

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Then using dimensionall travel and higher dimension doesn't equate to 4th wall breaking, because both are different powers and achieve different [but tiny bit similar]

It doesn't need to be the same thing, just needs to be able to do the same
Arale's fourth wall puts her in a space beyond the limits and reach of a certain construct.
Higher dimensional range hits beyond the limits and reach of equal or superior constructs.
Which means the HD range can hit her. Basic logic.

 

[Orange]

Boy, arguing this point is like saying if someone has six and the other half a dozen, the one with half a dozen isn't equal to six because they aren't written the same even though both are where it matters, same level.

But they are different.
Not any dimensional travel or teleportation Grants the ability to reach or interact with 4th wall breaking
Goku has teleportation, dimensional travel, and can break space times , yet he can't effect or reach 4th wall [except when he broke the manga panel when he was a kid]

 

[Orange]

It doesn't need to be the same thing, just needs to be able to do the same
Arale's fourth wall puts her in a space beyond the limits and reach of a certain construct.
Higher dimensional range hits beyond the limits and reach of equal or superior constructs.
Which means the HD range can hit her. Basic logic.

But they literally aren't the same thing.

 

[Planck69]

I'm going to bed. At this rate I'll see Arale vs Azathoth unironically.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

They are the same thing, the only difference is that one is doing this through meta interactions while the other isn't. But neither is above the other.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

But they are different.
Not any dimensional travel or teleportation Grants the ability to reach or interact with 4th wall breaking
Goku has teleportation, dimensional travel, and can break space times , yet he can't effect or reach 4th wall [except when he broke the manga panel when he was a kid]

4th wall breaking is not some godlike or untouchable power compared to other powers of the same quality.
It's one of several means to an end, in this case to reach a space beyond the reaches of characters up to a certain existential limit
Same thing I said here:
Arale's fourth wall puts her in a space beyond the limits and reach of a certain construct.
Higher dimensional range hits beyond the limits and reach of equal or superior constructs.
Which means the HD range can hit her. Basic logic.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm going to bed. At this rate I'll see Arale vs Azathoth unironically.

I do draw the line at outerversal characters, if properly defined, due to the inherent abstractness of their attacks.

I’m going to sleep too btw.

 

[Orange]

They are the same thing, the only difference is that one is doing this through meta interactions while the other isn't. But neither is above the other.

Then, if there are differences, then they aren't the same thing, similar ish, yes, but both achieve different results and one doesn't equate to another.
Heck, mechikabura can absorb infinite numbers of 4D structures [aka higher than arale's range] yet he can't effect 4th wall, it's almost like.....one doesn't equate or give results to the other....

 

[Orange]

4th wall breaking is not some godlike or untouchable power compared to other powers of the same quality.
It's one of several means to an end, in this case to reach a space beyond the reaches of characters up to a certain existential limit
Same thing I said here:
Arale's fourth wall puts her in a space beyond the limits and reach of a certain construct.
Higher dimensional range hits beyond the limits and reach of equal or superior constructs.
Which means the HD range can hit her. Basic logic.

Then, why can't Mechikabura, or Vados, or Anos [I could be wrong here] reach the 4th wall, but arale can....
It's almost as if...dimensionality, teleportation, dimensional travel doesn't equate to reaching 4th wall.
Can sailor moon reach and effect the 4th wall? No, end of story.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Then, if there are differences, then they aren't the same thing, similar ish, yes, but both achieve different results and one doesn't equate to another.
Heck, mechikabura can absorb infinite numbers of 4D structures [aka higher than arale's range] yet he can't effect 4th wall, it's almost like.....one doesn't equate or give results to the other....

They don't need to be the exact same thing. If you put an axe and a sword to cut an apple, they're different things but both can achieve the purpose they are given.
These two powers are in similar position. They aren't named the same but they both can achieve the purpose of affecting the same space, each in their own manners.

 

[Orange]

They don't need to be the exact same thing. If you put an axe and a sword to cut an apple, they're different things but both can achieve the purpose they are given.
These two powers are in similar position. They aren't named the same but they both can achieve the purpose of affecting the same space, each in their own manners.

Then, why can't people with teleportation, space time manipulation, bfr, dimensional travel, wormhole creation effect 4th wall [except the ones who can] , despite you claiming both are the same thing?

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Then, why can't Mechikabura, or Vados, or Anos [I could be wrong here] reach the 4th wall, but arale can....
It's almost as if...dimensionality, teleportation, dimensional travel doesn't equate to reaching 4th wall.
Can sailor moon reach and effect the 4th wall? No, end of story.

I'll calmly repeat, that whoever Arale's opponent is, they don't need to to affect her.
You don't need to have the exact same power.
You just need a power that achieves the purpose of countering hers. That's it. It doesn't need to be plot hax or 4th wall breaking.

 

[Orange]

I'll calmly repeat, that whoever Arale's opponent is, they don't need to to affect her.
You don't need to have the exact same power.
You just need a power that achieves the purpose of countering hers. That's it. It doesn't need to be plot hax or 4th wall breaking.

Good, then why can't Anos, or remiru, or mechikabura , or zeno effect and reach the 4th wall of they are the same thing?

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Then, why can't people with teleportation, space time manipulation, bfr, dimensional travel, wormhole creation effect 4th wall [except the ones who can] , despite you claiming both are the same thing?

Because their series doesn't work or need to work in that kind of principle. It has equally powerful equivalents, but that work under different means.
Someone mentioned here and above that not every series needs to work on metafiction mode to achieve these powers. Similar principle.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

@Oblivion Yet erasing someone from the plot is more potent than erasing someone from existence. Similarly to jumping out of the plot is more impressive than jumping out of a universe.

Who are you quoting

And I can argue that plot erasure is just conceptual or history erasure with added flavor, since there is technically no difference between those.