Girl that stomps boku vs girl that stomps goku

[Shadyboi0]

NFL

Tom brady might retire

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

From what I can remember, only Sailor Mercury has 4th wall interaction:

 

[Greenshifter]

no, **** off with that, that is one of the biggest NFLs ive ever seen on this site holy shit, that is just 100% false, we do not assume that at all, if you want to do that go give her bde because by your logic that is what she has, this in no way works or is accepted to work like this in any regards, if you want it to go make a crt because until you do so this is not an argument at all

By your reasoning we should give all NEP characters BDE. Now that is what I call NLF.

 

[Orange]

From what I can remember, only Sailor Mercury has 4th wall interaction:

Why's she calling us out-

 

[Orange]

Ahem, should I request this to be closed since it's a stomp for arale, or there is some ongoing debates?

 

[Ss3micah]

Ahem, should I request this to be closed since it's a stomp

Probably
Unless the moon supporters can figure out something that counters passive plot hax plus 4th wall and toon force BS

for arale, or there is some ongoing debates?

None that i can think up

 

[Orange]

Welp, I'll Wait for some time then request for it to be closed

 

[DaimaouAshura]

By your reasoning we should give all NEP characters BDE. Now that is what I call NLF.

Choked on my soda a bit here, but how was that his point?
What he called a NLF was 4th wall interaction = invulnerability to any dimensionally bound character provided they don't have the exact same ability.
Btw can someone here link me a thread where this deal with higher dimensional people being unable to hit lower dimensional ones with NEP was talked about, want to take a look at the arguments that decided that

 

[Ss3micah]

Choked on my soda a bit here, but how was that his point?
What he called a NLF was 4th wall interaction = invulnerability to any character bound by dimensions, so long as they don't have the same named power.
Btw can someone here link me a thread where this deal with higher dimensional people being unable to hit lower dimensional ones with NEP, want to take a look at the arguments that decided that

Lolol its alright
Anyways yeah my argument was that you needed 4th wall breaking to affect/interact with the 4th wall and that it shouldn't be automatically assumed that BDE characters can do this because BDE

But hey
If its standard that BDE characters can perceive and affect the 4th wall without feats then it is what it is I suppose

 

[Ss3micah]

Anyways let's not focus on that and get back to the debate (if it ain't already over by now)
Is there anything Moon can do here?

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Anyways let's not focus on that and get back to the debate (if it ain't already over by now)
Is there anything Moon can do here?

lmao you're cool, I wasn't resuming the discussion
Thought the guy's point was misunderstood some, is all. Seifuku Moon isn't having any luck here. But damn. Figured Arale would be strong with her manga being like a cartoon in powers, sure, but being this broken is news.

 

[Ss3micah]

lmao you're cool

Lolol Thanks

Seifuku Moon isn't having any luck here.

OOF

But damn. Figured Arale would be strong with her manga being like a cartoon in powers, sure, but being this broken is news.

Welp GG i suppose

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Sailor moon's high-godly and access to reality-warping would allow her to interact with ARale even while outside the plot. Fourth wall awareness + interaction is a subset of reality-warping so is plot manipulation

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Everything is a subset of RW technically speaking. That does not mean you can do things you've never showed to do with it. Feats are needed.

Arale haxstomps,anyway.

 

[Ss3micah]

Sailor moon's high-godly and access to reality-warping would allow her to interact with ARale even while outside the plot.

And I assume their are feats of Moon doing this Correct?

Fourth wall awareness + interaction is a subset of reality-warping so is plot manipulation

Yeah and Technically speaking so is majority of powers
That doesn't mean we assume characters with RW can do things they have never been shown, stated or even implied to do

 

[Orange]

I am back and what the hell am I seeing-

Sailor moon's high-godly and access to reality-warping would allow her to interact with ARale even while outside the plot. Fourth wall awareness + interaction is a subset of reality-warping so is plot manipulation

High godly is regen, exactly how's that going to help her effect arale? Regen is purely a defensive/survival skill, most of the time at least.

 

[Greenshifter]

Choked on my soda a bit here, but how was that his point?

This comes from 2 things: 1) you need the ability to interact with NEP since it is independent of dimensionality, 2) Micah’s logic for plot hax defense works for NEP too. Thus if you follow Deonment’s reasoning then you end up with the conclusion that NEP characters have BDE. It’s a satirical way to make clear that Deonment did not address the power at hand but instead started talking about BDE for no reason.

Btw can someone here link me a thread where this deal with higher dimensional people being unable to hit lower dimensional ones with NEP was talked about, want to take a look at the arguments that decided that

I have no idea if there is a thread about this topic or not. Common sense however tells me that your size does not suddenly make you capable of hitting things that do not exist.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

I have no idea if there is a thread about this topic or not. Common sense however tells me that your size does not suddenly make you capable of hitting things that do not exist.

Wait, you're telling me there's no thread, this is no stablished rule, you're the one saying this with your view of things as the basis, dude brother?
Tiering system says that higher dimensions are beyond lower dimensional powers. It's why smurf abilities keep making for pointless matches, because their powers just ignore or bypass lower dimensional voodoo.
No rule to the contrary = non-existent physiology on 3-D may as well be writing on a paper to a higher D.
True HD = Incomprehensible power to lower, not just bigger size.

 

[Greenshifter]

Wait, you're telling me there's no thread, this is no stablished rule, you're the one saying this with your view of things as the basis, dude brother?

Yup. That and my experience. Considering you disagree we can have a debate and figure this out ourselves instead of looking for a thread that may or may not be accurate.

Tiering system says that higher dimensions are beyond lower dimensional powers. It's why smurf abilities keep making for pointless matches, because their powers just ignore or bypass lower dimensional voodoo.
No rule to the contrary = non-existent physiology on 3-D may as well be writing on a paper to a higher D.
True HD = Incomprehensible power to lower, not just bigger size.

Sure, the reason being that you need the range to affect these higher-D beings of your lower-D voodoo doesn’t do anything. The reverse scenario however doesn’t work like that, point me to where it says in the rules that you can use higher-D existence to target people’s souls or prevent their regeneration from working if it’s potent enough. Just having power way beyond a lower-D being doesn’t even remotely imply that.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

See, that'd be cool and all, problem being that taking another ticket to the train of this discussion here is just derailing the thread for want of having the last word lmao
I'll open a thread on this question when I have the time to spare, then we can argue the point without that worry.
Better that than to keep discussing everything and the kitchen sink here but not the fight going on.

 

[Greenshifter]

Good plan

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Heads-up that I made a question and answers thread, based on answers up to now Sailor Moon might have enough range to attack her beyond the 4th wall
Not sure if that changes the result, but it could give room to discuss the fight

 

[Orange]

Arale can leave the narrative and plot of Dr.slump [which is 4D, since they have a universe, space, time ,matter, all qualifications of 4D] even people that can cross panels and third own 4th wall breaking feats can't effect her when she's outside of the plot [tho I'm not too sure about this, so you can skip it]. Arale just leaves the narrative, and if you don't have plot/4th wall breaking feats, sailor moon can't reach her.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If she is just leaving a 4-D structure then anyone who can do that, such as Lavos, should be able to affect her.

 

[Greenshifter]

If she is just leaving a 4-D structure then anyone who can do that, such as Lavos, should be able to affect her.

The implication being that Lavos can follow her? Which then implies that Lavos can break the 4th wall in order to reach her.

 

[Ss3micah]

I have returned

 

[Greenshifter]

Good imma sleep

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Arale can leave the narrative and plot of Dr.slump [which is 4D, since they have a universe, space, time ,matter, all qualifications of 4D] even people that can cross panels and third own 4th wall breaking feats can't effect her when she's outside of the plot [tho I'm not too sure about this, so you can skip it]. Arale just leaves the narrative, and if you don't have plot/4th wall breaking feats, sailor moon can't reach her.

The thread answers including staff said opponent justs needs the ranges. No such thing as needing specifically fourth wall breaking, that's a NLF and violation of reality-fiction interaction rules.

 

[Ss3micah]

If she is just leaving a 4-D structure then anyone who can do that, such as Lavos, should be able to affect her.

Oblivion
Arale can leave the very page and animation she is being drawn on
Can Lavos do that?

Though you do have a point

 

[Bernkastelll]

I have returned

i shall slep for the next 5 years

 

[DaimaouAshura]

If she is just leaving a 4-D structure then anyone who can do that, such as Lavos, should be able to affect her.

This here. The character doesn't need to have a feat of the exact same kind of structure, just a feat of an structure of the same complexity, it's like if you have a feat of affecting someone of equal distance or throughout an space equally abstract.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The implication being that Lavos can follow her? Which then implies that Lavos can break the 4th wall in order to reach her.

Her 4th wall break is just her leaving the verse, which is at best 4-D. You surely isn't telling me that a being who can access 1-B spaces cant reach her after she is leaving a 4-D structure, are you? Because that'd be NLF

You guys need to remember that plot manip is just meta reality warping that addresses powers that we already have in a meta-fictional way. That is all.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

In other words a character doesn't need "4th wall hax" to attack Arale beyond it, they just need to have the range to hit something that is equally far away or complex. Arale's 4th wall space is like a 4D construct so a char with 4D construct reaching abilities = can affect her.

 

[Ss3micah]

This here. The character doesn't need to have a feat of the exact same kind of structure, just a feat of an structure of the same complexity, it's like if you have a feat of affecting someone of equal distance or throughout an space equally abstract.

So...
In other words
Going beyond the 4th wall is just treated as Range and anyone who has the same or greater rang can affect?

 

[Ss3micah]

Her 4th wall break is just her leaving the verse, which is at best 4-D. You surely isn't telling me that a being who can access 1-B spaces cant reach her after she is leaving a 4-D structure, are you? Because that'd be NLF

You guys need to remember that plot manip is just meta reality warping that addresses powers that we already have in a meta-fictional way. That is all.

That actually made sense when you think about it

 

[Greenshifter]

The thread answers including staff said opponent justs needs the ranges. No such thing as needing specifically fourth wall breaking, that's a NLF and violation of reality-fiction interaction rules.

1) wait for more input.
2) The guy who made the pages regarding plot manipulation, 4th wall, reality-fiction himself could come and tell me that this is how it works and I’d still debate them on it.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

So...
In other words
Going beyond the 4th wall is just treated as Range and anyone who has the same or greater rang can affect?

Yes it's some sort of range across dimensions. It's still broken because another 3D won't ever touch Arale in it

 

[DaimaouAshura]

1) wait for more input.
2) The guy who made the pages regarding plot manipulation, 4th wall, reality-fiction himself could come and tell me that this is how it works and I’d still debate them on it.

2. At that point you'd be debating a NLF.

 

[Orange]

The thread answers including staff said opponent justs needs the ranges. No such thing as needing specifically fourth wall breaking, that's a NLF and violation of reality-fiction interaction rules.

Can any higher dimensional being reach the 4th wall? Can sailor moon effect 4th wall space? And even if you want to go by dimensions, arale can leave the 4th wall of a 4D plot, so sailor isn't effecting her

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Can any higher dimensional being reach the 4th wall? Can sailor moon effect 4th wall space? And even if you want to go by dimensions, arale can leave the 4th wall of a 4D plot, so sailor isn't effecting her

In other words a character doesn't need "4th wall hax" to attack Arale beyond it, they just need to have the range to hit something that is equally far away or complex. Arale's 4th wall space is like a 4D construct so a char with 4D construct reaching abilities = can affect her.