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Gigantic Animal Man Revision

the abilities and supposed tiering for at least 1-B with hax seems legit. Don't really see the issues here.
 
I also think that what Matthew accepted can be applied.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
9-B Physically. Varies, from Low 2-C to 1-B with his Powers at his Peak.

Low 2-C for creating a universe.

1-B for the whole shenanigans.
Click to expand...
I agree with this but I am iffy about Matts point on the Plot Hax, BFR and Acausality. DC is an extremely Meta Verse that is known to be so to the point that we even have a rule about DC being allowed to be Meta iirc, so I would like to see Yobos response once he has the time IRL.
 
I can add in the current accepted revisions, once someone tells me what they are and what are their justifications.
 
Malomtek said:
I can add in the current accepted revisions, once someone tells me what they are and what are their justifications.
Click to expand...
We're still in the middle of this.
 
Alright, I'll try and respond to Matt here.

First of all, the Overvoid is explicitly said to be exactly that, has all the characteristics of it, and is explicitly referred to as the middle ground between the DC cosmos and The Writer

The idea that we should disregard feats because it's a allegory is ludicrous. Even in normal verses, it's iffy, but DC explicitly isn't the same, since it's so woven into their cosmology. It's the same reason why we allow the Writer here in the first place.

Also, Ant, the Animal Man comics form a good portion of the foundation for our DC cosmology. If we start disregarding it it would require a few more threads and have more repercussions than just Animal Man.
 
You can ask Matthew to comment here again via his message wall.
 
The Overvoid being such was only defined decades after Animal Man, which is nowhere near as foundational as you claim it is, and in fact you just have to look at any comic with Animal Man that does not involve metafictional stuff. These aren't real powers, just metaphors.
 
The Writer is considered to "write and draw" against the will of the Overvoid despite being created before the Overvoid became a thing. It's just "retroscaling" for verbosity I guess.

In what way are these merely metaphors? And of course meta-fictional stuff doesn't take place in every comic but neither does Antman recreating the universe. Just because it doesn't occur in every comic isn't a basis for you disregard what he does because as far as I can see it's not really contradicted.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Overvoid being such was only defined decades after Animal Man, which is nowhere near as foundational as you claim it is, and in fact you just have to look at any comic with Animal Man that does not involve metafictional stuff. These aren't real powers, just metaphors.
Click to expand...
Not really. In the same issue of the comic, the definition is stated to be more or less that of what it is now, and in the same interview we use to justify the Writer's tier (which explains that a major part of that comes from Animal Man I may add) is exactly that. The Overvoid

Being metaphorical isn't enough when we actually see these things occur in the comic proper. By that logic the Monitor's themselves are 10-B for being a metaphor for the normal human editors.
 
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I fail to see how it isn't foundational when our own profiles already list the series as defining the cosmology
 
That's not remotely my point, my point is that a visual gag / visual metaphor isn't a legitimate superpower. Specially not 1-A Immortality / Concept stuff like it's being implied.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
That's not remotely my point, my point is that a visual gag / visual metaphor isn't a legitimate superpower. Specially not 1-A Immortality / Concept stuff like it's being implied.
Click to expand...
Except it's not a visual gag, it's a actual ability used with actual consequences in the story. Furthermore, the immortalities are barely visual, much less gags in the first place. Writing things off as gags would be one thing in a rule of funny cartoon, but this is pretty clearly not a gag.
 
It would take too much time that I do not have available to thoroughly get into this subject again.

It is best if you ask the members that I recommended above.
 
I will do so, but I should point out it's difficult to necessarily count your agreement if you don't explain your reasoning. We don't want a echo-chamber after all
 
Well, this thread has been going on for so long that I am mostly going by vague memories at this point.
 
@Yobo

I'm sorry, but this was so long ago that I'm not exactly sure what's going on either. It seems this is still about the 1-A stuff?
 
The first few points in that list make sense. Regarding existence erasure, I don't know either way without further context. Was it EE or BFR? Idk. And as for the last point, I'm not really sure what 1-A BFR even is tbh.

It's hard for me to give any real input here because the last several comments are talking about meta abilities in general, rather than specific abilities that Animal Man should/shouldn't have.
 
"1-A" BFR is supposed to be Animal Man being able to throw people into the Monitor Mind.

Matt is saying the meta abilities are just gags. We disagree.
 
Can somebody provide a more thorough TL;DR summary of the current discussion?
 
Anyway, the Monitor-Mind was established at least 2 decades later. We cannot scale like that.
 
The Writer drawing the multiverse on Monitor-Mind was a part of the Final Crisis storyline.
 
Antvasima said:
The Writer drawing the multiverse on Monitor-Mind was a part of the Final Crisis storyline.
Click to expand...
The issue with that logic is that WoG says the same definition is in effect, the same definition for other things like limbo is used, and various parts of Animal Man are in Final Crisis as well, so that point is non-unique,
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
The first few points in that list make sense. Regarding existence erasure, I don't know either way without further context. Was it EE or BFR? Idk. And as for the last point, I'm not really sure what 1-A BFR even is tbh.

It's hard for me to give any real input here because the last several comments are talking about meta abilities in general, rather than specific abilities that Animal Man should/shouldn't have.
Click to expand...
For EE, it was Animal Man making Overman disappear by making the panel he was in disappear. I wouldn't say it's necessarily 1-A EE

Well, do you have any opinions on that?
 
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