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I believe the way Elizio presented the tiering should stay as it is.
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
- Start date
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- Tags
- dc comics
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Dude, you're really making everything more complicated. Crisis Cosmology has already been upgraded recently, and it also doesn't make sense to upgrade without seeing the outcome of Ultima's suggestions. If their suggestions are accepted, I can easily say that 1-B is suitable for the God Sphere. The most important thing we need is patience.
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Elizio believe that it might stay 1-B.
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I was just saying about the sphere. There are characters that could qualify for 1-A for Crisis cosmology.
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Eh, with strict interpretation. Most likely not.
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(in case the ultima's suggestions are accepted)
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Yes, even with the revision since R>F on that scale is hard to prove unless we take some statements with higher intrepretation.
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If the Bleed is 5D spatial, that claim raises many contradictions
You are the one who makes DC cosmology complicated, I have even understood DC cosmology for a long time
I have proof that the timestream is part of 4 dimensions and is expressed as 4 dimensions.
4-dimensional the green, beyond time and space materials.
4th dimensional warlogog, this stone transcends time and space, hourman has metaphysical 4th dimensional powers and the 5th dimension is beyond his abilities.
Speed force is fourth dimensional energy.
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5D isn’t spatial. It’s 3 spatial dimensions + 1 dimensions of time + 1 hyperspace.
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So, hyperspace is not spatial dimension beyond time-space?
We know that the explanation of dimensions is said to be 6 dimensions, 1=point, 2=line, 3=material, 4=time, 5=imagination and 6=impossibility.
So, where is the bleed in these 6 dimensions? and where is the sphere of the gods in these 6 dimensions?
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Hyperspace is super compact dimensions after space-time used to quantity the remaining 7 dimensional super gravity of M-Theory. Hence why Grant uses “hyper” a lot as akin to beyond normal/covential.
5th and 6th are levels that permeate reality. They’re not physics based dimensions.
The bleedspace is contained within the Orrery. The Bleed itself is a bulk and that flows through the connect reality and contains it like a “membrane.” These concepts are similar to the notion of M-Theory.
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Doesn't that explain hyperspace as a physical dimension?
I know, so those places are in the 4th dimension? Cause there are only 6 dimensions described
Yes, it is described as a brane that holds the physical realms of space and time and the 5th dimension is described as a mathematically higher dimension, so spatial dimension.
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Relatively speaking it’s all mathematical.
They’re not in the 4th Dimension. They exist within 4 dimensions. This means they experience the linearity of time. It’s not a realm.
Everything is math in the material realm.
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I see what you mean, you say the 5th dimension is bleed, not spatial, but even so, the 5th dimension is mathematically based.
But in the comic the 5th spatial dimension is stated as a mathematical dimension and is influenced by physical fields, isn't this a spatial dimension?
I have explained that the 4 Dimension are dimension that are beyond mathematics, beyond physical dimensions, beyond space and time.
According to old comics, hourman has metaphysical powers [worlogog, objects that
transcend time and space].
But the non-spatial 5th dimension is a place beyond the power of warlogogs and is stated to be trans-geometry.
So 4 dimensions is not the material world [spatial or temporal] in the 6 dimensional cosmology.
[Worlogog's power is a threat to all space, all time]
Indirectly, physical space and time are within material dimensions which are said to be 3 dimension
So, my statement is correct
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The Bleed is fifth dimensional. I never intended it to be the same as the “Fifth” Dimension from which the Imps hail from.
In older Morrison work, it was a mathematically higher realm but now it’s more a level of reality that embodies the concept of imagination and is no longer tied to magic.
As for whether it’s spatial or not would be determined by its position. Math and Physics both agree in the notion that “dimensions” has vector points that occupy space and also can be described in myriads as manifolds. Take V for vector space and M for manifold. Physics based dimensions for the most part has a sort of volume by linear scaling and they are dimensions of length, width, and height but they are consider quality with some degree of freedom. Math are easier to quantify while physics based dimension are more so….well better for measuring out quality.
Either way, it doesn’t matter since the basis is almost identical.
Within physical space that dimensions occupy then no it’s not beyond math nor has DC ever described the 4th dimension which is temporal as above math. You haven’t even explained it correctly with the scan. You just nitpick the information(which does not mention being above math) and claim it is above math.
Transcending time and space has little to correlate with being beyond physical dimensions.
Also, that’s not how 4th dimension is defined as the current information treats it as a temporal dimension. It’s “time” as described by Mxy. No one even claimed it was the material world, but the material realm function in four dimensions.
Cool. Everything in DC is.
The material realms occupies the same logic as space-time. The “threat” does not specify the quantity of dimensions nor that any of those dimensions even have quality. Being a threat to the material world has no correlation to being a threat to just three dimensions as you try to prove that is the case with the physical world.
So, the statement you made is illogical.
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I'm waiting to see where Conner Kent ends up on the Heralds scaling before I do a big revision for some of his missing powers and abilities
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I believe I should step in on these matters.
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Oh? I'm sorry. I didn't think I was stepping on any toes. Apologies.
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Nothing to aplologies for. It was a joke that I take the matters into my own hands.
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Wow, that makes DC cosmology messy and nonsensical
It is also stated that beyond creation[Here], creation is space and time.
Even defeating spectre and imps is beyond the capabilities of The Quintessence[Here].
It explains that the 5th dimension has long been applied metaphysically in comics and the physical 5th dimension, explained by Grant Morrison in the 2011 action comic.
The meaning is clear, there are 2 5th dimensions, physical and non-physical.
It's in the swamp thing comic, the multiverse nexus [monitor satellite] beyond mathematics when swamp reaches that place[Here] and [Here]
The multiverse nexus is within the timestream, also not bound by the dimensions of space and not bound by time.
Timestream is metaphysical, because it includes speedforce and vanishing points within that realm.
[Read my previous explanation]
The power of the worlogog is beyond the comprehension of metaphysical beings such as metron.
With the power of warlogog, hourman is able to stop time at the vanishing point. Vanishing point is a metaphysical realm.
Hourman's abilities beyond 3 dimensions, expressed as time, namely 4 dimensions, but physically and metaphysically about time.
With the feats I gave previously, such as the timestream 4D, the speed force 4D, the green 4D you should understand that 4Dimensions are not spatial/temporal dimensions.
In old comics it is quite clear that the 5th dimension is transgeometry [Here], you have to understand what transgeometry is
It is also stated that beyond creation[Here], creation is space and time.
Even defeating spectre and imps is beyond the capabilities of The Quintessence[Here].
It explains that the 5th dimension has long been applied metaphysically in comics and the physical 5th dimension, explained by Grant Morrison in the 2011 action comic.
The meaning is clear, there are 2 5th dimensions, physical and non-physical.
A place statement that beyond mathematics huh?
It's in the swamp thing comic, the multiverse nexus [monitor satellite] beyond mathematics when swamp reaches that place[Here] and [Here]
The multiverse nexus is within the timestream, also not bound by the dimensions of space and not bound by time.
Timestream is metaphysical, because it includes speedforce and vanishing points within that realm.
[Read my previous explanation]
You obviously didn't read what was explained previously or perhaps, you don't understand.
The power of the worlogog is beyond the comprehension of metaphysical beings such as metron.
With the power of warlogog, hourman is able to stop time at the vanishing point. Vanishing point is a metaphysical realm.
Hourman's abilities beyond 3 dimensions, expressed as time, namely 4 dimensions, but physically and metaphysically about time.
With the feats I gave previously, such as the timestream 4D, the speed force 4D, the green 4D you should understand that 4Dimensions are not spatial/temporal dimensions.
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There are only 6 dimensions, the sphere of the gods, the monitor sphere, the limbo, the speed force cannot possibly be in the 5 dimensions of imps, meaning these places are in 4 dimension [time] , time that is not physical like a timestream or hypertime. Time is the 4th dimension in Mr Mxy's explanation.
So 4D is metaphysical
So 4D is metaphysical
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You do know they are farming you guys, right?
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You’re not helping it with these suggestion that no one has agreed to. Especially with Ultima revision going and the recent change that Elizio presented with good evidence of the scaling.
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I'm just using common sense, 4 Dimensions is time, time beyond time, time is metaphysical, like statements in comics, according to the author's statements, according to databook/guide
This better than "5D bleed within the 4th dimension plane but 4th domension is temporal dimension"
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Try not to use author statements not guidebooks.
We use space-time that’s what consider the “4th dimensional plane.” The Bleed is 5D that would upscale the Orrery to that same logic as well.
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Can anyone explain why we still use the logic that the Presence = Overvoid = Source? This was always a theory and not an actual thing in the comic.
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It's actually a thing in the comics. Besides the guidebooks such as A Vast and Vibrant Multiverse refer to the Hands of the Source being agents of the Presence 2. 3
Death Metal #1 also refers to them as the same.
Scott Snyder also confirms they're one and the same: 5:00
And the comics have hinted they're the same a few times, like Day of Judgement, when Mister Miracle says entering heaven feels like the Source welcoming them. And the Spectre stating in JSA Returns: All-Star Comics Vol 1 #2 that God has many masks but the there's only one. Spectre also comparing the light beyond the Source Wall to feeling like Heaven.
Like, until Death Metal and Vast and Vibrant Multiverse, it was more subtle implications but it is a lot more clear cut nowadays.
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Source and Presence was specifically Snyder idea as when Morrison said the Source and the Overvoid were equal.
Source and Presence during Metal which change the Overvoid as just space to the Light of Creation.
When he was in charge of writing the Metal series. There’s no mention of the Overvoid being an actual sentient being during Metal Wars.
Those comics hadn’t introduce they were the same. They were alike was more of the idea.
It’s not clear cut. Williamson seem to not implicate Source is the Presence the same way Snyder did to whom doesn’t implicate that the Overvoid is the Source they way Morrison did.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,374
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Superboy (Post Crisis) martial arts
Conner Kent is missing....a lot on his profile that needs to be restructured but one important thing he's missing in Post Crisis/Rebirth is his Martial Arts skill: He was trained by Knockout (Superboy vol 4 (1994) #23 and #24) and Guardian (Superboy vol 4 1994 #58, #76 and #84) and served as a...
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There's nothing wrong with using the author's statement and the guidebook, it doesn't conflict with the comic
According to you, the 4th dimension is the temporal dimension, space and time are 4 dimensions, so it is a very easy point to discuss
What dimension contains the sphere of the gods, the monitor sphere in the 6 dimensional scoot? State clearly what you think, don't add dimensions, there are only 6 dimensions.
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So, would anyone like the googledoc I'm working on for Superboy, to get all his stuff together?
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It does which is why I brought the point. To be more precise, it’s better to use in comic citation than guidebooks.
The first four dimensions mentioned within the material plane. The God and Monitor Sphere isn’t quantifiable by “dimensions.”
There isn’t only “six” dimensions. The aforementioned 5th and 6th are levels of reality and has nothing to due with geometrical or physics based dimensions.
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This sure is a better explanation for the Three Jokers thing instead of Batman somehow not noticing that he was fighting three different guys. Also the reason that Joker is so randomly skilled in mental and physical ability being because one of Bruce's teachers wanting revenge because Bruce cold clocked him and the guy's ego couldn't take it.
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Just mention it, in what dimension is the metaphysical realm located?
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I, naturally, say metaphysical realms are above dimensionality in according to quantities. So if the material plane has infinite dimension of a countable infinity and that’s one level then the metaphysical realms would encompasses the uncountable since quantity is harder to define with those.
Apollonir.Scale
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Dragonoid vs Superboy-Prime
Helix Dragonoid VS Superboy-Prime Starting Distance: 10 Meters Equalized speed Both are 2-C Drago: Apollonir, Spectra, AloseVQ, Mndks Superboy-Prime: Incon:
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Do you think dimensions in DC comics are only about spatial dimensions? aren't the 5th dimension and 6th dimension metaphysical?
So where is the realm of the gods located? is the realm that located in the 5th dimension or below it?
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“Metaphysical” realms are in acorrdsnce to belief, magic, or structuring linked to the Orrery. The 5th and 6th are more so realms of conceptuality that permeates the Multiverse. Though spatial dimensions are seen throughout the material world.
As for the location of the realms. It’s pretty evident that the Sphere is above the Orrery. Though the 5th Dimension approximate location is unknown because it exists everywhere rather than a singular location according to Metal Wars.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,374
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Superboy (all Kryptonians?) Existence Erasure resistance
Is this a feat for Existence Erasure for Superboy (Conner Kent) and could it scale to other Kryptonians? In the Hypertension storyline, we learn being struck by bolts of Hypertime erases someone from existence in EVERY hypertime reality. (Superboy vol 4 (1994) #63) In the next issue...
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