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With that attitude you won't get anything, chill out.
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
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I personally think some elements of Vertigo should be 1-A like Presence for example, but most of the arguments for upgrading the Vertigo and DeMatteis cosmologies have been rejected multiple times, and to be honest, all these talks about DC Cosmology have become very tiresome.
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Joke Battles
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Wait for the tiering revision application thread, then you'll have a good chance. Simply trying to push another CRT in the current environment would be fruitless.
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If the revision gets accepted would we tier based on the split?
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I think so.
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Probably for the best. Though a composite Presence would be fun to see.
This causes an issue with Michael and Lucifer scaling if the Presence is accepted as 0. Though it should be fine though I don’t know if Crisis Cosmology will scale higher here.
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I have a feeling the tiering system update won't be approved, but fine, I'll wait for it.
Excellence616
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It will.
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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It already was.
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This does mean that Crisis Cosmology won’t be having a 0 tier if Light and Darkness are supposedly near enough in level.
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Better this way, I think. 1-B is fine for the Light and the Great Darkness.
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The Void from Vertigo honestly deserve its 1-A rating back. Though from what I’ve read the Void is only a part/piece of God.
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I also think Vertigo Void should be 1-A but let's wait for the tiering system revision to be applied first.
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Personally I would prefer if all J.M. DeMatteis works are intertwined. So his “Seekers,” “Last One” are connected to his DC stories. They’re written no different on the conception of God which Ultima accepted as 0.
Like what’s the difference between Divine Presence and the Magician? We’ve seen in Doctor Fate, the “Avatar” whom resemble Meher Baba which happens to be the case with the “Magician.” Not to mention all his God characters are the same and are not tied by any “ism” nor continuity. He clearly expressed everytime he writes God, he writes them as one and the same. If 0 is completely detach from a hierarchy and are all equal then we can assume all his God character should be one unified being. It’s also all Hindu elements like Maya and Pralaya, so why not just merge his story that goes over the same character.
The same elements: levels of existence/dreams, God dreaming of Reality, God being beyond everyone and everything, and all Hindu specific are always in his stories. I don’t think just because it’s a “creator” owned series makes a difference. I mean Mike Carey “Unwritten” clearly can’t work with Lucifer but Matteis story are literally are all the same in terms of Cosmology.
Like what’s the difference between Divine Presence and the Magician? We’ve seen in Doctor Fate, the “Avatar” whom resemble Meher Baba which happens to be the case with the “Magician.” Not to mention all his God characters are the same and are not tied by any “ism” nor continuity. He clearly expressed everytime he writes God, he writes them as one and the same. If 0 is completely detach from a hierarchy and are all equal then we can assume all his God character should be one unified being. It’s also all Hindu elements like Maya and Pralaya, so why not just merge his story that goes over the same character.
The same elements: levels of existence/dreams, God dreaming of Reality, God being beyond everyone and everything, and all Hindu specific are always in his stories. I don’t think just because it’s a “creator” owned series makes a difference. I mean Mike Carey “Unwritten” clearly can’t work with Lucifer but Matteis story are literally are all the same in terms of Cosmology.
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But DC fans, are not satisfied with Sphere of the Gods which is only L1C, I have proof that Sphere of the Gods is 1B in morrison's cosmology.
It seems that changing the tier above the bleed 1B is not a bad problem, cause in the Supergirl adventure comic, Mr. Mxy has the ability to control 10 dimensional space.
Excellence616
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Creating a profile for Empty Hand (DC Comics)
Hello 👋🏿 I've made this draft profile for the Empty Hand since he definitely deserves a profile on the wiki. Note that I'm only using information we had about the character in the comics and not information from Morrison's interviews which was not used in the comics. Empty Hand Tier: Low 1-C...
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The Bleed is said to be a 5-D space and the bulk between the 4-D brane universes, so Low 1-C is fine, as is the Sphere of the Gods.
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Bleed is 4D, the map is 4 Dimensions.
Bleed is not a spatial/temporal dimension, bleed is meta-space/metaphysical, bleed contains a physical dimension.
Why is it said that the 5th dimension rotates at the center point of the orrery of the world? that's because the 5th dimension flows throughout creation and the orrery of worlds, the rock of eternity is at the center of creation. Creation itself is a sphere.
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That’s going to make the scaling even lower then.
According to you only physical dimensions are the first three.
Creation isn’t a sphere. It’s doesn’t have an actual shape.
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In my personal opinion, it doesn't matter whether it strengthens or weakens the DCuniverse, it's just that a hierarchical system is what it should be, 4 Dimensions is not a physical realm, it also has layers like the material realm.
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Even comic go by the logic of space-time(3 spatial dimensions + 1 dimension of time). That’s why makes up the Universe and that includes most realms of fiction. They’re are physical geometrical dimensions that occupy space not realms. Within the subsets of space or the Universe could hold countless dimensions, perhaps but those are more akin to numbers and cardinality which have not been directly referenced by any of the authors.
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Is there still a thread for the DCEU?
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The material aspect doesn’t cancel what 3-D is which is things with height, length, and width. We’re consider to be three dimensional because we have those properties as would the characters within the Earths.
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That's right, materials are 3D as we know but in quantum mechanics, materials are not just 3D space, time is not 4dimensional, space-time is 4dimensional.
If you think 3 dimensions are true geometric space, why was the previous geometry so chaotic? Isn't there a height and width in some DC comics? And point is not the first dimension
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If we take account that time is also an abstract concept then yeah. However, time regardless is a property of a dimension of time and lacking it completely seems rather unlikely.
As for the dimensions from Snyder view, yes, he did skip the flat dimension of 0D but that’s not really important.
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It's clearly very important, He says "the last thing that WE ever want to be clear is reductive or constraining in OUR cosmology of OUR theology of the DCU"
"You know multiple dimensions, evelen dimensions plus in dcu and the idea that there is beings upon beings"
"I thought the 4th dimension was the deity, the supranatural, those things in the DC cosmology"
OUR [It wasn't just his idea but there were other people involved in the formation of these 6 dimension]
Interview
When he explained the monitor sphere and the 6th dimension, he asked grant Morrison as in the interview below
Interview
In my opinion, the 2 dimensions referred to as lines are 2 geometric coordinate lines, namely X and Y
2Dimensional Line
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What exact timestamp? I don’t remember this.
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As explained yesterday
"The majority of known life operates in four dimensions. Some of these planes, such as various forms of Heaven, Hell, and Dreamland, are fueled by intelligent beings' own spirituality. Such regions generally shape themselves according to the expectations of the believers"
Hypertime is Time, omniverse is Space, so Time and space is 4Dimension/Divine Continuum
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The majority of life and the realms explanation are not connected.
The Divine Continnum points out the main Multiverse that time is more abstract than a physical dimensions contained with the material plane.
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The Deities live in the 4-dimensional world, the sphere of the gods is within the Omniverse/hypertime which refers to space/time =4Dimension.
There is nothing wrong, the gods exist in a realm that transcends the material and is revealed many times.
Looks like I will upgrade SOG 1B in this thread, because this is also a cosmology thread, I will apply small tiering changes
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I don’t think you get my point. So I’ll let the others look at your claim.
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You said bleed is 5 dimensional space with Mr.mxy's statement, 5D flows like blood throughout the realms and it is similar to bleed.
"IT'S ROTATING THROUGH THE FIFTH DIMENSION AROUND A FIXED POINT IN THE STRUCTURE OF THE MULTIVERSAL ORRERY OF WORLDS!"
It's quite clear if it is said that the bleed rotates through the 5th dimension, not that the bleed is the 5 dimensions rotating around the orrery
•The 5 dimensions rotate throughout the map including the Bleed and it is said that the dimension higher than the 5th dimension is the 6th Dimension.
The multiverse is 4th Dimensions as mentioned by Mr. Mxy
The reason is easy to explain, 4 dimensions is the divine continuum, namely Space and time.
•Bleed is 4D, higher than material realm
•Speed force is 4D
•The Timestream is 4D
•Collective unconsciouns is 4D
•Hypertime is 4D [part of space and time]
However, the 4-D world also has metaphysical layers within it.
The vanishing point is within the Timestream, the Timestream and the vanishing point is in a place beyond space and time [described as a Metaphysical realm]
Speed force, Bleed is referred to as Extra-dimensional. Extra-dimensional in DC comics refers to the Metaphysical realm
Hourman has the ability to transcend the physical world, he can control time at the timestream/vanishing point.
He has the power of a higher dimensional worlogog, not a spatial or temporal dimension but a metaphysical 4th dimension, cause the timestream is not physical space but time that transcends time.
•Hourman has the power of Warlogog [is a physical Manifestation of space and time].
•Time stop in the vanishing point realm.
•Outside of Time [temporal dimension] with Timeship.
•Worlogog is aspect of time and space.
•The worlogog could be used to reshape Creation [physical worlds].
Timestream beyond dimensional space.
•As extant ended the Timestream.
•The worlogog even surpasses new gods like Metron
•Housman gives JSA shields to protect them from Entropic forces.
Also, Time is 4Dimension and 5th Dimension far beyond.
•The Timestream beyond mathematics [Here].
•The Timestream beyond space and time.
•The Timestream isnt a literal Place.
Speed force [extradimensional plane] is within the timestream and the timestream is within the hypertime.
•The timestream does not touch the limbo realm, but limbo within the Hypertime.
Now, 5Dimensions
Scoot Snyder's 5th dimension is described as the physical and non-physical realms.
The physical realm is a higher dimension mathematically with true dimensional axis [a place beyond lenght and width, beyond' depth and Time].
•The 5th Dimension being affected by physical fields [Here].
•Mrs Imps said that dimension was a mathematically higher dimension [Here].
•In another comic, Superman says that 5D is a place outside 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension [Here].
•5th dimension is Real time and space.
While the non-physical 5th Dimension is stated as Extra-Dimensional in the hierarchy of existence.
The 5th dimension is outside the map, the map is referred to by Mr Mxy as the 4th Dimensions.
As explained in the Guidebook:
•5D beyond the map/multiverse
•This Map is shown when Explaining the Hierarchy in the Multiverse, the Monitor sphere within it, and other Metaphysical realms. [Here].
•5th dimensional beings have no physical form.
•The 5th dimension is described as a trans-geometric dimension.
•The 5th dimension is outside of creation, that means it is not the physical realm.
•They are able to control physical Time and Metaphysical Time such as Hypertime.
•Stated by Hourman as a world beyond 4 Dimensions, where Houtman is a creature that inhabits the Timestream [Meta-physical realm].
Spatiaal and temporal dimensions/physical realm
•The physical dimension in DC comics is within the Bleed, because the Bleed is Metaspace/Metaphysical realm.
Also stated as pandimensional, which contains higher dimensions.
•Dimensions in DC comics are explained as having 11 spatial dimensions, beyond 3 spatial and 1 temporal.
[11D] + [11 Dimension] + [Higher dimension].
•Wildstorm universe is on earth 50 {The pre-Flashpoint Earth-50 was the home of The Authority} [Sourcebook] + [Wiki].
•Grant Morrison was also involved in writing the Story.
•Connected with Captain Atom [The pre-Flastpoint], the Captain Atom comic is also stated to have 11 spatial dimensions, beyond space and time
•New 52 captain atom [11 Dimension beyond time and space].
so, calculation
Sphere of the gods 1B, beyond the Bleed
The Realm beyond oa far beyond the sphere of the gods, has been explained by Elazio in the cosmology thread.
So, if the monitor sphere beyond the SOG[12D] and the limbo[13D], then the monitor sphere is 14D
Looks good, right?
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How many scans from you guys have already been rejected.
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Actually, my thread yesterday didn't show the statement in the comic that 4D is a metaphysical realm, but now I have shown it.
So actually it can't be denied
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Don’t agree. I made my stance clear.
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Time is temporal dimension? 5dimension is physical dimension? 2 dimension is line? 1 dimension is point? Material is 3dimensional space? So, sixth dimension is phsycal dimension? Timestream is 4Dimensional space? Speed force is 4dimensional space? Hypertime is 4dimensional space? 4D green? This your stance?
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No. You mention this and I explained it to you. I never said anything directly about the Cosmology, I simply responded on your points being a little invalid.
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Can you explain it to me?
