Why should the plan reach a non-existence? Lucifer just wanted to take shelter somewhere outside the influence of the plan. Randomness occurs according to Yahweh's will. Anything may be out of his reach, but he still pulls the strings.
Please do not try to conflate the mainstream and vertigo continuums. Silver city is beyond not only the material plane but also the metaphysical realms beyond them and treats them like child's play. Lucifer didn't get weaker, he just enjoyed having others set their sights on his throne and watching the poor demons who tried to achieve that goal fail. He was bored in hell. You know how you made fun of Etrigan?
Yahweh is unknown. Lucifer, yes, as a puppet of the Great Darkness, he is stronger than Darkseid
Provide official evidence that Vertigo and DC are different universes. This guidebook combines both Dc and Vertigo. The Silver City cannot be outside all spheres, it was attacked by Apokolips
That's why we separate them. Aleph is the limit of everything, not Sog. (for vertigo) But you cannot apply the planes in DC to Vertigo.
What did you say that about?
Lucifer is not a puppet of TGD and is much more powerful than Darkesid no matter what form he takes.
They were separate until Flashpoint, when the three universes allegedly merged. That's why I separate the two. Since the City in Lucifer is not included in these restrictions, it does not make sense to include them in the current cosmology. This is disrespectful to Mike and Neil.
I will evaluate these stories for the Spiritual Cosmology later, but i'm pretty sure that if we could combine different authors' stories to make the Crisis Cosmology (I.e. Post-Final Crisis & Multiversity Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, Joshua Williamson, and Geoff Johns), we could surely do the same for J.M. DeMatteis' contributions since other writers' works are consistent with DeMatteis's, at least with those whose differences are either minor or not relevant enough to separate them.
Separation for fictitious reasons. Aleph appeared before Vertigo, and Darkseid knows about them, as well as about the Cabal. Why can't I? The official map and guidebooks have already done everything for me.
Because I don’t like it when people try to reconstruct the text written in a comic in their own way. I don't mean anything rude
Why isn't it? The new comics quite show a change in chronology, where the Great Darkness is no longer his avatar. No, not stronger, rather, it is difficult to establish an exact balance of power between them, in basic forms
Sandman appeared in Dc. Destiny (Endless) appeared in DC in '72. A lot of Vertigo characters appeared before Flashpoint. Vertigo characters have appeared in DC guidebooks. In fact, there are no official statements that Vertigo is a separate universe, with the exception of fan-made ones. But the fan's opinion is lower than the author or publisher
Thank you for responding, BTW can you provide a list of comics brought?
I am saying that the two definitions are very different. Both are things with different terminology.
You cannot say that what I say is independent of the text. Everyone can make different inferences by looking at the texts, and my ideas are the most logical interpretation that can be drawn from the text. The same goes for you. You interpret this in your own way.
As I said, she is not the True Morningstar, she is specifically imitating her. DC doesn't progress in a linear chronology anyway. In dreaming, it is transformed by dreams, resets and crises that change the course of creation. Tyler confirmed this. Even Darkesid's true form is no match for Lucifer. He owes his existence to Lucifer.
Regardless, Vertigo is no longer in DC. A separate continuity from DC in Black Label. They have little contact with the mainstream continuity. We can never combine these continuities for this wiki. Apart from that, if we bring these continuities together, we are left with a mess of information.
Storylines that were not previously associated with DC comics can be separate, but not those that have been correlated with each other since the 20th century...
Alephs?
I use only what the author writes, without my personal interpretations of the meaning.
This is not known for sure. It follows that in the Dark Crisis it was confirmed that all the events of the Crises and other global events occurred
The fact that Vertigo was closed does not negate their presence in the plots of old or new comics. Nobody is saying that you need to put everything on top of each other, it is better to use things that are interconnected. But it was also stated that everything in DC is canon
Fictional universes are generally not suitable for this wiki, unless they are written specifically for it. But something doesn’t stop anyone from making cosmologies and profiles on this wiki
We don't create cosmologies based on centuries, my friend. We only combine those that are most closely related to each other. And these are unrelated continuities.
Yeaps.
Okey.
The relationship between Lucifer and the Great Darkness is very blurry, but the second issue is a clear one.
It doesn't really matter. As I said, you can use the expression "comp dc" outside of this site, but for the purpose of this wiki, what you say is irrelevant.
BL contain Sandman universe and I mean it. I have no idea what are u talking about else.
I don't have much at the moment.
Its looks like you haven't read Lucifer [2018] or don't understand the comic storyline.
The hierarchy is not wrong, everything is correct based on what I explained
Alright but are you also going to bring material comics from some Animal man and Doom patrol?. Sorry to bother you again.
Anything that can be used. The sorting will come later with what does and doesn't enough fit DeMatteis' stories.
Alright I see what you mean, whatever that I will still wait patiently if you are willing to make a thread.
If you would like to help me for the Spiritual Cosmology by providing any comic book titles or notable information/scans, you are more than welcome.
No problem, I will try my best to providing information/scans that can be helpful for spiritual cosmology work.If you would like to help me for the Spiritual Cosmology by providing any comic book titles or notable information/scans, you are more than welcome.
Thank you! You can post on my message wall with any scans or notable information it you want.No problem, I will try my best to providing information/scans that can be helpful for spiritual cosmology work.
Alright if that's what you want if I can't provide more information on your thread.
The Source Wall in the comic Metronome represented the same thing as in the comic with Lucifer, Aleph. The Source Wall was presented there as the end of creation.
This is a very strange thing
Everything is basically correct, except that the supreme being is called the Unknowable
You still don't understand what I mean...
There are things that are left out of the book of destiny. There are things Delirium knows that are not in the book. The book doesn't actually include everything. The extents of Night and Time are extensions of Lucifer's will. Existing before something does not indicate a clear superiority of power.
This is confirmed by official sources
As you said that the Silver City is part of the multiverse, but it is not, which is confirmed by the DC guidebook
I never said Silver City was part of the multiverse, but rather emphasized that it was not part of created things and was not the same as heaven. In the Lucifer series, Silver City is also referred to as heaven, but it is still not part of created things or has the true scope of heaven. A place where God's throne and his divine word are located. Silver City clearly transcends creation. And their interpretations of Silver City, later or current, are nowhere near Mike and Neil's and are grossly distorted.
The guidebook says the same thing.
And guidebook
Is it written somewhere that the Silver City of Cary is located outside of all Dc? I definitely haven't seen anything like this. Why do you interpret it this way and not as outside the physical multiverse? Why should this particular interpretation be correct? The guidebook erased these contradictions and left the same description as the authors did in their comics. If someone says that a certain structure is superior to a given hierarchical structure in the past, and new information is given that this structure has become inferior to the structure that it was superior to, then the more recent information will be used.
Some of Morrison's old stories certainly have ties to DeMatteis' contributions.
Based on the discussions here, I did not see any contradictions between the cosmologies of these authors...
We have already discussed this and explained the reason earlier in the discussion.
Can you provide scans/images to support your opinion?
He is infinite and eternal because he was formed by external forces [Here], he originally existed because he was formed by human thoughts[Here], the pure energy, gods born in the dreaming realm is not from the void [Here], unless you can prove it. even if it is true, it also means nothing because the void is not only that and everything [sphere of the gods] only exists in a perpetua creation.
All gods [Here] experience the cycle of life and death, even dream and destiny also experience it, all die [the sphere of the gods and the physical world] except death [Here],[Here], [Here], [Here]
It could be that The Unknowable is a creature like the hands and cosmic raptor races, located outside the source wall
