General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

I've always found it pretty damn weird (from a respectful viewpoint) that this site, till this day is completely convinced that the sphere cannot be platonic. The argument brought up that because the sphere is portrayed as being created, or influenced, or destroyed supposedly is just a cut throat argument that the Sphere isn't platonic, while makes sense at first while only accounting for Platos beliefs on what platonic concepts are, ignores how Plato's works themselves invite contemplation and debate, and understanding these concepts is far from stagnant. As well as ignoring how there already has been interpretations of platonism where concepts have been created, like Plotinus' interpretation of Plato's ideas and Carl Jungs interpretation of Plato's ideas being influenced by the collective unconscious (p.s. which is what DC uses)

This becomes even more confusing when you factor in that this wiki already accepts that with the Superflow from Marvel and the Noosphere from SCP are worlds of forms, with both of them being created, as well as destroyed before, but when it comes to DC, its just a big no no because... inconsistencies? What inconsistencies? The sphere is consistently viewed as an abstract plane of existence, and as near as 10 months ago God's are further established as fundamental functions that change the Universe.

Superflow from Marvel

This statement does not exist in isolation, as mathematics being encompassed by the full extent of the omniverse is already something that's been alluded to elsewhere in the verse. In Amazing Spider Man #22, we are told by Spider Man's wife's boyfriend that all of reality ultimately boils down to information, with mathematics being a part of that. More specifically, mathematics is simply the act of representing this fundamental information through symbols so it can be manipulated and expressed as a language. Taking what was already there and translating it into a code.

In Al Ewing's Ultimates, Maker makes an extremely similar statement: "It's all about information, you see. From the smallest quark to the tallest space god. It's all information...." In context, he mentioned that as part of his explanation of the Superflow, which is the the highest level of reality, between all universes, where ideas and categories come alive and take actual form (Those being the Abstracts that form the echelons of the Cosmic Hierarchy, in their highest forms). More, it is the place ideas come from, to begin with, the dreamspace of human potential.

Simultaneously, though, it also seems to be the mindscape/consciousness of Eternity himself. As shown at the very end of The Ultimates, when the Superflow is erased, Eternity no longer remembers what he is and enters a coma-like state, which is promptly reverted when the Superflow is restored, leading him to regain his memory. That this is the case may seem a bit strange, but it becomes understandable when taking into account the instances where Eternity's Universal counterparts were described as the collective consciousness of all life in a single universe, which would mean the true Eternity's consciousness is in turn the consciousness of all life in the omniverse.

This is important because, as established in the previous thread, all the contents of the omniverse are thoughts and dreams inside of Eternity's consciousness, and so the Superflow, being that very mindspace, is the backdrop in which those dreams and thoughts exist, and so the information in it is the information of all reality as well, with it being primary, while physical existence is secondary. This should be obvious, of course, since it is the realm where the primal concepts that govern the multiverse live (Helpful to note that these concepts are also explicitly platonic in nature in Ultimates #10, but then again the way the Abstracts are portrayed should've made that obvious too), but this angle helps clarify it further. This is to say that the Superflow isn't just "a" informational space, it is the space where all information is.

So, in summary, the Superflow is the transcendent space that acts as the source of all ideas, effectively the omniversal collective consciousness. It encompasses and stores all information, and thus all of mathematics (Since mathematics itself boils down to information as well, according to the scans above).

Noosphere from SCP

Now, the first obscure philosophical concept we must get familiar with is the Noosphere. In the mega-multiverse, a structure called the Noosphere envelops and encloses each canon, of which there are infinite, though naturally, only finitely many can be explored in any detail. The Noosphere is, in simple terms, the sum of all human thoughts, in the same way the biosphere is the sum of all of Earth's ecosystems. Naturally, this includes every meme humanity has ever invented, from the most obscure posted cat photo to the most persistent.

Yes, the SCP cosmology genuinely incorporates memes as a reason why it's so overpowered. This property of the Noosphere is crucial because one of the most common ideas in the SCP multiverse is that memes can be alive. They're classified as a subset of cognitohazards, a type of paranormal activity that can affect you by merely perceiving them. In simple terms, Medusa was the first cognitohazard ever written. Living memes are so common that the Foundation uses them for informational security, typically by embedding a photo infected with a living meme into classified files so that anyone who accesses the file without having first taken anti-memetic drugs dies from merely seeing the image.

In an interview, Placeholder McD clarified that the Noosphere doubles as an analog for Plato's "theory" of the World of Forms, meaning living memes inhabit the Noosphere on a more literal than metaphorical level, existing not only as living ideas but also as "perfect" ideas that everything in an SCP canon is but an imperfect reflection of.

Why is this important? Well, in SCP-7650, we're treated to a nice little factoid that inaccessible cardinals are part of the cosmological theories the Foundation is aware of. Simply put, though no object with an inaccessible cardinal's worth of dimensions has ever been shown in an article, SCP Foundation researchers know they're possible, meaning such an object must possess a perfect, memetic version in the Noosphere. To contain memes with an inaccessible cardinal's worth of dimensions, the Noosphere must also be that big itself, meaning the Noosphere is High 1-A. As the Noosphere is the same across all canons, one canon demonstrating ideas on this level scales to all of them.

These are the explanations for why the two things you brought up are accepted as transcendent, platonic realms.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

If I remember correctly, in one of my threads I asked about 13 different times for evidence that the Sphere of Gods is portrayed as a physical plane of existence and was unfortunately provided with none, except a pretty vague scan about a character that gained "physical form" in the Sphere, one that is contradicted heavily by the author of that comic anyways. So I'd like it for my 14th time to be provided with a list of scans that prove that the Sphere of Gods is indeed a physical plane of existence, and has no conceptual influence on reality, as that I do think this is a very ignored topic on here.

 

[Deagonx]

except a pretty vague scan about a character that gained "physical form" in the Sphere

He gained "corporeal form" in the Sphere, but same meaning. There are several others however.

one that is contradicted heavily by the author of that comic anyways

Not all that important if it isn't in the comic.

So I'd like it for my 14th time to be provided with a list of scans that prove that the Sphere of Gods is indeed a physical plane of existence

I'd suggest reading more DC, I suppose. If this is directed at me, I don't have much interest in personally compiling one for you.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Superflow from Marvel

Noosphere from SCP

These are the explanations for why the two things you brought up are accepted as transcendent, platonic realms.

I am aware for both of them. And yet, the Noosphere was once destroyed by the Scarlet King in a fight, as well created by the All-Mighty, and the Superflow was destroyed in the Secret Wars event, as well is created at a time in the Multiverse. My question asks why that is the case, I know the answer but would appreciate it for people to say why.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

I am aware for both of them. And yet, the Noosphere was once destroyed by the Scarlet King in a fight, as well created by the All-Mighty, and the Superflow was destroyed in the Secret Wars event, as well is created at a time in the Multiverse. My question asks why that is the case, I know the answer but would appreciate it for people to say why.

I don't understand.

 

[Xearsay]

If I remember correctly, in one of my threads I asked about 13 different times for evidence that the Sphere of Gods is portrayed as a physical plane of existence and was unfortunately provided with none, except a pretty vague scan about a character that gained "physical form" in the Sphere, one that is contradicted heavily by the author of that comic anyways. So I'd like it for my 14th time to be provided with a list of scans that prove that the Sphere of Gods is indeed a physical plane of existence, and has no conceptual influence on reality, as that I do think this is a very ignored topic on here.

Lol good luck. The whole map is designed and structured in accordance to the Godsphere having a conceptual influence on the Orrery and Grant called the Godsphere platonic numerous times in Multiversity and Final Crisis. Anyone who thinks this isn’t how the Godsphere works is either ignorant on how the cosmology works or just being dishonest.

 

[Deagonx]

Different staff with different philosophies engage with different verses. I've never participated in an SCP thread and probably never would. You say they're treated as Platonic, but what does that mean in terms of profiles? Is there a character with an ability or tier that you believe it wouldn't have, if we didnt consider one or both of these realms Platonic?

 

[Deagonx]

Grant called the Godsphere platonic like numerous times in Multiversity and Final Crisis.

Did he? I've never seen a scan for this other than the Batman statement that I can remember.

 

[Robo432343]

lets see if marvel is going to get the same treatment as DC in terms of splitting the cosmology

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

If I remember correctly, in one of my threads I asked about 13 different times for evidence that the Sphere of Gods is portrayed as a physical plane of existence and was unfortunately provided with none, except a pretty vague scan about a character that gained "physical form" in the Sphere, one that is contradicted heavily by the author of that comic anyways. So I'd like it for my 14th time to be provided with a list of scans that prove that the Sphere of Gods is indeed a physical plane of existence, and has no conceptual influence on reality, as that I do think this is a very ignored topic on here.

In the context of DC comics, the platonic God Sphere argument is used consistently as a Get Out Of Jail Free Card to prove 1-A realms beyond the multiverse. The problem is, the moment you want to extrapolate from such statements, you have a tremendous burden of proof to demonstrate that the God Sphere strictly follows Plato's theory of forms.

Deagonx summed it up before here:

When Darkseid dies, does evil stop existing? No. Does evil exist above Darkseid? Yes. Does it exist in other Multiverses outside DC? Most probably. We know that there was a period of time in the Orrery where Gods did not exist at all. Yet the material world, which you are so insistent on claiming depends on these conceptual gods, was fine and operated based on normal parameters.

You can't just dismiss anti-feat after anti-feat with the cope of "but some interpretations of platonic forms allow these anti-feats!!" Prove the God Sphere at least follows Plato's theory of forms strictly enough to warrant extrapolation.

The God Sphere even has mountains of anti-feats showing it's bound by space-time.

 

[Robo432343]

In the context of DC comics, the platonic God Sphere argument is used consistently as a Get Out Of Jail Free Card to prove 1-A realms beyond the multiverse. The problem is, the moment you want to extrapolate from such statements, you have a tremendous burden of proof to demonstrate that the God Sphere strictly follows Plato's theory of forms.

uh did kenshin ever say platonic god sphere gives you 1-A?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

He gained "corporeal form" in the Sphere, but same meaning. There are several others however.

I'd like to see them, especially considering the author of that comic (which if I remember correctly was Grant Morrison) says later on that the Sphere is outside corporeal reality as a whole.

Not all that important if it isn't in the comic.

What isn't in "the comic", that the Sphere of Gods isn't called incorporeal and nonphysical? That much is just incorrect

I'd suggest reading more DC, I suppose. If this is directed at me, I don't have much interest in personally compiling one for you.

I have, funnily enough, I've read around 70 comics or so referencing the Sphere of Gods. And no this isn't a directed at you, it's directed on people that are knowledgeable enough on this topic and have interest on compiling evidence for me.

I don't understand.

Some of the arguments on why the Sphere isn't a platonic realm is because it is a created realm and is capable of being destroyed, I'm bringing evidence that this doesn't really matter in VSBW, because 1. There are interpretations for them with them being allowed to be like that. 2. Other verses have the same problems but are accepted just fine.

 

[Xearsay]

In the context of DC comics, the platonic God Sphere argument is used consistently as a Get Out Of Jail Free Card to prove 1-A realms beyond the multiverse. The problem is, the moment you want to extrapolate from such statements, you have a tremendous burden of proof to demonstrate that the God Sphere strictly follows Plato's theory of forms.

He’s not saying platonism is an automatic 1-A for the Godsphere so this comment isn’t even necessary.

You can't just dismiss anti-feat after anti-feat with the cope of "but some interpretations of platonic forms allow these anti-feats!!" Prove the God Sphere at least follows Plato's theory of forms strictly enough to warrant extrapolation.

The God Sphere even has mountains of anti-feats showing it's bound by space-time.

No one posted any anti-feats. And even if there was an anti-feat, why would we hold one anti-feat over the boatload of evidence suggesting the Godsphere is and functions like a platonic realm?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Lol good luck. The whole map is designed and structured in accordance to the Godsphere having a conceptual influence on the Orrery and Grant called the Godsphere platonic numerous times in Multiversity and Final Crisis. Anyone who thinks this isn’t how the Godsphere works is either ignorant on how the cosmology works or just being dishonest.

Oh well, what do we know.

He’s not saying platonism is an automatic 1-A for the Godsphere so this comment isn’t even necessary.


No one posted any anti-feats. And even if there was an anti-feat, why would we hold one anti-feat over the boatload of evidence suggesting the Godsphere is and functions like a platonic realm?

Most of the inconsistencies there are from like 50 years ago, and most aren't even from the Morrison/Snyder universe.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd suggest reading more DC, I suppose. If this is directed at me, I don't have much interest in personally compiling one for you.

Me when I'm asked to provide sources: "Yeah go look for them yourself idc"

(Or, more politely, please provide scans when asked to do so)

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

lets see if marvel is going to get the same treatment as DC in terms of splitting the cosmology

This was the thread where the cosmology split was voted on. You guys were given chances, Antvasima was even encouraged by other staff to allow more DC supporter participation, and you guys blew it. You failed to provide so much as a single argument against the cosmology split. Instead, you guys went on tangents about how this was only done to prevent tier 1 Superman or you attacked Deagonx personally for his off-site takes. Go read that thread, compare the arguments both sides made, and explain to me why any neutral party shouldn't have favored the split?

Ultima, on the other hand, actually took time to craft a good argument for compositing much of the Marvel cosmology.

 

[Robo432343]

This was the thread where the cosmology split was voted on. You guys were given chances, Antvasima was even encouraged by other staff to allow more DC supporter participation, and you guys blew it. You failed to provide so much as a single argument against the cosmology split. Instead, you guys went on tangents about how this was only done to prevent tier 1 Superman or you attacked Deagonx personally for his off-site takes. Go read that thread, compare the arguments both sides made, and explain to me why any neutral party shouldn't have favored the split?

Ultima, on the other hand, actually took time to craft a good argument for compositing much of the Marvel cosmology.

wtf
i agreed with the cosmology split

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

He’s not saying platonism is an automatic 1-A for the Godsphere so this comment isn’t even necessary.


No one posted any anti-feats. And even if there was an anti-feat, why would we hold one anti-feat over the boatload of evidence suggesting the Godsphere is and functions like a platonic realm?

There's a reason special pleading is a fallacy. The God Sphere has anti-feats against being eternal, it has anti-feats for being bound by space-time, it has anti-feats for being non-physical, and above all: it has anti-feats against being archetypal. Feats>statements. If SCP or Marvel have anti-feats to a similar degree (which they demonstrably don't), they shouldn't be given platonic stuff either.

 

[Executor_N0]

He gained "corporeal form" in the Sphere, but same meaning. There are several others however.

I don't think that is really a problem with the idea that it could be an abstract place. Basically, various other abstract spaces in fiction all have used physical terminology to describe what happens, even though it's not in the "most literal sense". Even if you went with Marvel there are various depictions of abstract spaces having "physical events", like being said to have physical forms, gravity, weather, etc. One of the first Thor stories was literally Asgard going to dry out and needed Thor to go there and make it rain. (And yet it was already depicted as an eternal realm beyond time and space). It's not in the "absolute most physical meaning of it", but rather "a general idealized version of those events that are summarized into physical events to be made sense to be told in stories.

So on its own, there's no problem with an abstract space depicting physical-like events if you understand that they are a representation of something abstract through physical lenses. And of course, superiority can be only by contrast to the physical realm, while being "mundane/limited" in itself. To quote "Elements of Theology": For that by which each thing is infinite, by this likewise it exists uncircumscribed. But every thing which is in true beings is bounded by itself, and by all the things prior to it. It follows, therefore, that the infinite which is in true beings is infinite to subordinate natures alone, above which it is so expanded in power that it is incomprehensible by all of them.

If it was told at least once that there's a kind of simplification to what happens in the Sphere of Gods, be it to be understood by physical beings or because of a kind of metaphysical narrative, it would be the exact same thing that happens with other already accepted abstract/non-physical places.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Some of the arguments on why the Sphere isn't a platonic realm is because it is a created realm and is capable of being destroyed, I'm bringing evidence that this doesn't really matter in VSBW, because 1. There are interpretations for them with them being allowed to be like that. 2. Other verses have the same problems but are accepted just fine.

I have no stake in this fight, but even if we proved the SOG was platonic, you still have all your work ahead of you to prove a specific tier for it.

 

[Deagonx]

Me when I'm asked to provide sources: "Yeah go look for them yourself idc"

(Or, more politely, please provide scans when asked to do so)

This ain't a CRT bud. It's the general discussion thread.

 

[Armorchompy]

But you guys are debating about cosmology, general thread or CRT you can't really expect to be taken seriously if you just... don't do that.

 

[Deagonx]

That goes both ways. You should have a baseline familiarity with a cosmology if you want to be taken seriously in a debate about it. Asking someone else to teach you the basics isn't really worth their time.

 

[CloverDragon03]

…What?

They’re just asking for the source on a claim that was made. That doesn’t warrant this at all

 

[Deagonx]

What isn't in "the comic", that the Sphere of Gods isn't called incorporeal and nonphysical? That much is just incorrect

This supposed contradiction to what's in Final Crisis Secret Files (which is that Apokolips is corporeal).

I have, funnily enough, I've read around 70 comics or so referencing the Sphere of Gods.

Yeah, that's what I mean. There are more than 70 comics referencing the Sphere in a single Superman run. You can't just read Crisis events and expect to get a comprehensive understanding of the verse.

Some of the arguments on why the Sphere isn't a platonic realm is because it is a created realm and is capable of being destroyed, I'm bringing evidence that this doesn't really matter in VSBW, because 1. There are interpretations for them with them being allowed to be like that. 2. Other verses have the same problems but are accepted just fine.

The "but this other verse does it" argument isn't a very good one, and people try to use that in a lot of contexts and it's always a bad argument. There are incorrect things on the site. The fact that they haven't been corrected yet isn't a good justification for it being used elsewhere. But again, I'm still not sure what tier/abilities were granted that otherwise wouldn't have been.

 

[Deagonx]

They’re just asking for the source on a claim that was made. That doesn’t warrant this at all

You're right, and all I did was encourage them to read the comics. It absolutely didn't warrant this random sniping from Armorchompy to start drama like this:

least gatekeepy vsbw user

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

The "but this other verse does it" argument isn't a very good one, and people try to use that in a lot of contexts and it's always a bad argument. There are incorrect things on the site. The fact that they haven't been corrected yet isn't a good justification for it being used elsewhere. But again, I'm still not sure what tier/abilities were granted that otherwise wouldn't have been.

Both the Superflow and Noosphere have undergone strict scrutiny regarding their ratings.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Or… maybe you can provide the source? If you don’t wanna go find it yourself, you can at least redirect them to around where it can be found

Just saying “read the comics” isn’t exactly productive, general thread or not

 

[Ultima_Reality]

People complaining that the Godsphere is treated as a physical realm and not as abstract on the wiki

This discussion be like.

 

[Deagonx]

And even if there was an anti-feat, why would we hold one anti-feat over the boatload of evidence suggesting the Godsphere is and functions like a platonic realm?

Predominantly because there isn't a "boatload" of evidence. Most of it is just riding the coattails of that single Batman scan. It's more the inverse, there is a great deal of evidence proving otherwise.

Both the Superflow and Noosphere have undergone strict scrutiny regarding their ratings.

Sure, I'm not disputing that per se. I'm not familiar with them. I'm just explaining that referencing what other verses do is not a good way to argue for something.

Or… maybe you can provide the source? If you don’t wanna go find it yourself, you can at least redirect them to around where it can be found

Just saying “read the comics” isn’t exactly productive, general thread or not

We're referring to dozens of scans in random comics across decades. I don't have a photographic memory. If the need arises I could spend a good bit of time compiling it, but to what end? I don't just drop everything I'm doing to scour DC for scans whenever somebody asks me to. I'm allowed to say no. If you feel strongly about it, you are more than welcome to do it instead.

Basically, various other abstract spaces in fiction all have used physical terminology to describe what happens, even though it's not in the "most literal sense". Even if you went with Marvel there are various depictions of abstract spaces having "physical events", like being said to have physical forms, gravity, weather, etc. One of the first Thor stories was literally Asgard going to dry out and needed Thor to go there and make it rain. (And yet it was already depicted as an eternal realm beyond time and space). It's not in the "absolute most physical meaning of it", but rather "a general idealized version of those events that are summarized into physical events to be made sense to be told in stories.

Personally, I am not as sympathetic to this viewpoint. Or rather, I can only allow so much of it before I think we're painting a somewhat ridiculous caricature of the stories being told, where we must re-contextualize hundreds of stories by doing our best to explain away every seemingly physical event, with the end result being that our official stance is "never trust your eyes, this visuals of this primarily visual medium cannot be trusted!"

And in some cases, this approach completely doesn't work. For instance, there is a Supergirl comic where Supergirl manages to travel to Apokolips without a Boom Tube, and because of that she is physically smaller than the rest of the citizens. If we consider Apokolips an abstract non-physical space, this suddenly becomes borderline incoherent. It isn't unthinkable that Boom Tubes primarily change someone from being physical to abstract, but why would Supergirl appear physically small for teleporting there differently? Are we to assume then, that her method also changed her to an abstract form, but for some reason Boom Tubes also amplify the power or "abstract size" of one's form? And for some reason, Supergirls other method did not?

Please, goodness, no. In the context of that story it is abundantly clear that Boom Tubes make you physically bigger and Supergirl was small because she didn't use a Boom Tube and simply teleported instead. I can't imagine thinking the best solution to this problem is tons of mental acrobatics to make sense of this clear contradiction.

 

[Armorchompy]

You're right, and all I did was encourage them to read the comics. It absolutely didn't warrant this random sniping from Armorchompy to start drama like this:

which is why i deleted it, with a specific note that says "eh i don't wanna start a fight"

But since you decided to dig it back up despite me explicitly choosing to back off, what DID warrant my "snipping" is that the concept of "baseline familiarity" is completely subjective and if people were to abide by your standards of it, you would be capable of moving the goalposts as much as you want and get away with making any sort of claims without need of evidence, just by claiming that they're so obvious that it isn't needed. Especially because, as Ultima clearly shows us, your claim is very very far from obvious, and is, perhaps, straight-up wrong.

This is without getting into how even if you were right it wouldn't be an excuse for constantly demeaning behavior.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We're referring to dozens of scans in random comics across decades. I don't have a photographic memory. If the need arises I could spend a good bit of time compiling it, but to what end? I don't just drop everything I'm doing to scour DC for scans whenever somebody asks me to. I'm allowed to say no. If you feel strongly about it, you are more than welcome to do it instead.

My guy I don’t have any stake in DC I just lowkey forgot to unfollow this thread, so I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I just take issue with a refusal to provide a source and just going “read the source material.”

I get DC is a comically large franchise with tons of comics, so it’s different compared to just looking through a singular manga for instance for a source. Though I feel at least at some point, it may be prudent to try and get ahold of the scans in question whenever you can, for future reference if nothing else.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This discussion be like.

Mfw

 

[Deagonx]

This discussion be like.

I shouldn't have helped you get your account back

you would be capable of moving the goalposts as much as you want and get away with making any sort of claims without need of evidence, just by claiming that they're so obvious that it isn't needed.

Everyone is always capable of this. Both in and outside of a CRT. The only obstacle really is whether or not other people find that persuasive. If this were a meaningful CRT where a change to the wiki were on the line, I probably would compile the evidence, but I am not going to drop what I am doing to spend hours gathering scans any time anyone asks me to.

As explained by Executor, doesn't really mean much.

I completely disagree, but you're more than welcome to that opinion.

I'm not really sure if there are 70 issues showing the Sphere in a "single Superman run," I think I would've known.

bruh

The reason why I brought it up was to show that it does exist on this wiki.

"Exists on this wiki" just means "at some point more than 2 staff members voted for this" which has varying degrees of reliability.

My guy I don’t have any stake in DC I just lowkey forgot to unfollow this thread, so I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I just take issue with a refusal to provide a source and just going “read the source material.”

I would agree if I was being asked for a specific scan or specific claim. But what is being asked of me is "show me every scan in DC that demonstrates the Sphere being shown or referred to as physical in some way" which is a gargantuan research task. I am allowed to say no.

 

[Armorchompy]

Everyone is always capable of this. Both in and outside of a CRT. The only obstacle really is whether or not other people find that persuasive. If this were a meaningful CRT where a change to the wiki were on the line, I probably would compile the evidence, but I am not going to drop what I am doing to spend hours gathering scans any time anyone asks me to.

 

[Executor_N0]

Personally, I am not as sympathetic to this viewpoint. Or rather, I can only allow so much of it before I think we're painting a somewhat ridiculous caricature of the stories being told, where we must re-contextualize hundreds of stories by doing our best to explain away every seemingly physical event, with the end result being that our official stance is "never trust your eyes, this visuals of this primarily visual medium cannot be trusted!"

And in some cases, this approach completely doesn't work. For instance, there is a Supergirl comic where Supergirl manages to travel to Apokolips without a Boom Tube, and because of that she is physically smaller than the rest of the citizens. If we consider Apokolips an abstract non-physical space, this suddenly becomes borderline incoherent. It isn't unthinkable that Boom Tubes primarily change someone from being physical to abstract, but why would Supergirl appear physically small for teleporting there differently? Are we to assume then, that her method also changed her to an abstract form, but for some reason Boom Tubes also amplify the power or "abstract size" of one's form? And for some reason, Supergirls other method did not?

Please, goodness, no. In the context of that story it is abundantly clear that Boom Tubes make you physically bigger and Supergirl was small because she didn't use a Boom Tube and simply teleported instead. I can't imagine thinking the best solution to this problem is tons of mental acrobatics to make sense of this clear contradiction.

I'm sure it sounds not good. And of course, I'm sure a lot of authors don't think about that and are completely unaware of any of those ideas. But at that point, it's more about the contradiction between different authors because they don't have the same understanding of the place.

But the idea that something like that can happen is the focus of many stories. One of the funny scenes from Marvel's The Ultimates 2 is Ego hiding behind a door to not enter the conflict only for Galactus to say something like "We are in an informational space, where combat is a metaphor, the door you are hiding, it doesn't exist". Not a concept exclusive to Marvel. In Chiaki J. Konaka's works about information space, he directly came up with using the term Metaphorize to describe turning "physical" in information space because it's not really physical, but rather a metaphor to make sense of a purely unreal place (Something he does in Alice in Cyberland, Serial Experiments Lain, and Digimon Tamers).

I do remember some old Grant Morrison scans talking about that and how you can't truly describe what happens in the abstract realms in terms of physical description because they exist beyond space-time, so everything is a simplification of what happens. I also recall some scans of some characters saying "It's not what it looks like, it's this complex pure idea of a thing and not the thing".

So, I think that at least some authors did at least mention once "Don't trust what you see, this is all a simplification of something that can't be truly described by physical means". However, I'm also sure there are just as many authors who have no idea of what any of this is and just made up stuff from their own interpretation without knowing the deeper meaning of what others said. Which is why we even have a cosmology division.

 

[Deagonx]

Armor by all means, feel free to right this wrong by undertaking that task yourself.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Everyone is always capable of this. Both in and outside of a CRT. The only obstacle really is whether or not other people find that persuasive. If this were a meaningful CRT where a change to the wiki were on the line, I probably would compile the evidence, but I am not going to drop what I am doing to spend hours gathering scans any time anyone asks me to.

Are you from Quora or Comicvine?

 

[Armorchompy]

Armor by all means, feel free to right this wrong by undertaking that task yourself.

that wasn't meant to be an attack or anything i just wanted to reply with something stupid so i just browser the arkham sub and picked a post at random

 

[Deagonx]

However, after looking at Darkseids profile it seems the New Gods and their world are already accepted as platonic since we use the Batman statement for Darkseids AE type 1.

If all you meant by "Platonic" was "Trueform Darkseid has incorporeality/abstract existence" then by all means. Even his appearance in the Orrery could've proven that. Actual platonism encompasses a lot more than that, but it's been proven that even TF Darkseid lacks those qualities which is why he does not have them.

But at that point, it's more about the contradiction between different authors because they don't have the same understanding of the place.

Yes, this is largely the case. It's not so much that I think there's no scans suggesting the Sphere is predominantly abstract, it's just that the many contradictions to that notion make it far more complicated a matter than some would be willing to admit to themselves. But as you say, this is something that the cosmology split was created to help alleviate to a degree.