Game Sonic CRT: Low 2-C Supers

[ShakeResounding]

Gonna sleep, tomorrow I'll be busy (hopefully) so might take a while till I respond again. Also I had to make it in 2 posts since I couldn't quote you from page 1 and 2 at the same time.

You can. All you need to is >[insert my text here] with a space between the >[

Isn't there some practical invulnerability negation hax that exists rather than true invulnerability?

Nah. It was decided months ago that it's considered really good Stonewall Durability, unfortunately.

 

[JED]

And yes I know, Stone Wall Dura but usually bosses have an attack that can damage Super Sonic, TE has zero, nada.

The only bosses that can harm Super Sonic are Solaris and Egg Salamander.
But yeah, this got way more complex than it needed. I’m just happy people are agreeing with 2-C Time Eater lol

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Snip

I replayed the 3DS fight recently. No loss of limbs, the only sign of damage to the TE was to the core itself and only looked stompish for the final hit. Also, I'd like to propose a Lifting Strength upgrade for it, as it has an attack where it can physically hold and restrain Classic Super Sonic with one hand, so his LS should scale. Clip here, sorry for quality but it's all I could find. And while I don't have a clip for it atm and it isn't outright damage, if the Supers get hit by a charged up mouth laser from it they are seen actively guarding against it if that means anything

 

[ShakeResounding]

So it was basically a stomp. Nice to know.

Here's what we should do.

1. Forget about two values in the same AP section for now. Save it for another thread to at least make this one more complicated.

2. Focus on getting Low 2-C applied for Super Forms that don't have it, and upgrade the Super Forms that do.

3. Add a "possibly 2-C" end for Time Eater. And I guess upgrade his Lifting Strength with Glace's clip.

4. Remove 2-C for Egg Salamander.

We already have the support from one staff member for what I've listed. Maybe two more or so should do it. Can we agree to this gameplan?

 

[JED]

This plan is fine with me (even though I think 2-C Egg Salamander should stay but I won't fret if it goes). Also bump.

P.S. My last piece of evidence for 2-C Time Eater, the fact that Classic Metal Sonic from the Bad Future of Stardust Speedway appears in White Space too, which is an alternate timeline itself.

 

[ShakeResounding]

That's also fair. I'll add that to OP.

 

[JED]

Bump

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Well, for starters, Modern Super directly fought the Time Eater. I found it weird that we skipped over a Low 2-C rating for him when he was viewed as directly comparable to Classic Super within the fight. So that should likely be enough reasoning by itself.

Additionally, Time Eater should get a "possibly/likely 2-C" rating added on for being able to mess with both Silver's future and Stardust Speedway's Bad Future during the Classic Metal Sonic fight.

I agree on the Time Eater part, neutral towards Egg Salamander.

I mean, 2-C Egg Salamander would likely stay for this, wouldn't Sonic's super form in modern era varie between a Low 2-C rating due to the fact that it's basically comparable to the Phantom King as his classic version has fought him directly?

Anyways, this seems good at that point of view.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I was asked to comment here again, I assume it has to due with the addition to the OP regarding the possible 2-C Time Eater?.

Additionally, Time Eater should get a "possibly/likely 2-C" rating added on for being able to mess with both Silver's future and Stardust Speedway's Bad Future during the Classic Metal Sonic fight.

My only concern is what does "Silver's future and Stardust Speedway's Bad Future" mean in context with his AP?. Was he destroying them?

 

[JED]

My only concern is what does "Silver's future and Stardust Speedway's Bad Future" mean in context with his AP?. Was he destroying them?

Yes.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Alright then, I'm fine with the possible/likely 2-C addition.

 

[JED]

Alright then, I'm fine with the possible/likely 2-C addition.

Thanks

 

[JED]

So can this be added now?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Mmm I think we should get another staff member here first.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

I would recommend DarkDragonMedeus

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I can't see any problems with this.

 

[JED]

So we good to add now? (at least the TE and Super forms)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If this is applicable these guys would need to be unlocked: Sonic the Hedgehog (Game Character), Shadow the Hedgehog (Game Character), Silver the Hedgehog, Egg Salamander

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Well, I think 2-C Egg Salamander should still apply If we are still going to consider Blaze's statement about the Sol Emeralds.

And technically, Sonic uses the powers of the Chaos Emeralds to keep both dimensions stable from being fused or destroyed.

So in short, agree on Time Eater upgrade, disagree with Egg Sala's 2-C removal.

 

[JED]

Since everyone seems to be in agreement on Time Eater, I'll apply his changes since it's uncontroversial. I'll wait on others for the Egg Salamander (although I personally agree with Gabs).
My proposal for Egg Salamander is "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" as a compromise.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Well, I think 2-C Egg Salamander should still apply If we are still going to consider Blaze's statement about the Sol Emeralds.

Which statement are you referring to?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Btw here’s supporting evidence that the Time Eater destroyed the entire universe/all of reality. It’s from Sonic Generations Official Strategy Guide.

 

[JED]

Btw here’s supporting evidence that the Time Eater destroyed the entire universe/all of reality. It’s from Sonic Generations Official Strategy Guide.

Can I ask where did you get the guide from? I’ve been searching for it online for years and still can’t find it lol

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Can I ask where did you get the guide from? I’ve been searching for it online for years and still can’t find it lol

Not sure if it’s anywhere online. One of my mates bought it and sent me scans.

Also if it means anything the Time Eater’s dimension is infinite in size

 

[JED]

Not sure if it’s anywhere online. One of my mates bought it and sent me scans.

Also if it means anything the Time Eater’s dimension is infinite in size

At this point, can we just say Time Eater is Low Multiversal? It’s sounding really consistent with these scans here. There’s one more I have that flat out states each stage in Gens is a dimension.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Well, I think 2-C Egg Salamander should still apply If we are still going to consider Blaze's statement about the Sol Emeralds.

I'm pretty sure there is no statement that makes the Sol Emeralds alone 2-C.

And technically, Sonic uses the powers of the Chaos Emeralds to keep both dimensions stable from being fused or destroyed.

This doesn't happen either afaik. And even if it did, I'm almost 100% sure it's in a way that discredits a flat 2-C rating. The entire point is that they have to fix shit before it happens, which is something unpreventable. Hence why they need to get the Sol Emeralds outta there.

Hopefully I'm not coming off as rude here lol.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Sonic just controls the Chaos Emeralds and keeps their energies stable. I don’t think he directly stabilized the space-time of the universes.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Sonic just controls the Chaos Emeralds and keeps their energies stable. I don’t think he directly stabilized the space-time of the universes.

There is actually a quote about Eggman saying the dimensions seems stable due to the fact that Sonic has the emeralds on his hands.


Here is the actual statement, just for the confirmation if anyone wants to know it.

It would make more sense to take in mind that Sonic would possibly have used the powers of the emeralds to stop the resonance caused by their counterparts, the assumption taken is that the Egg Salamander would still scale to this even if we take Eggman's future Low 2-C dimension as a possibility of downgrade.

I'm pretty sure there is no statement that makes the Sol Emeralds alone 2-C.

Like I have said, if we are still going to take Blaze's statement seriously, then they would be possibly 2-C or just 2-C if we use powerscalling to the Chaos Emeralds's full power.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Can someone summarize the arguments here?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Arguments for the downgrade:

• The combined powers of the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds would perform a 2-C feat, meaning they’d be Low 2-C individually, similar to how we treat the combined power of Beerus and Champa being able to destroy 2 universes as Low 2-C individually
  • While Blaze initially believed the destruction to be solely caused by the Sol Emeralds, I’d argue she wasn’t fully knowledgeable on the Sol Emeralds’ mechanics at the time, which is backed up by Eggman stating she was ignorant of their power, nor was she aware of the Chaos Emeralds. Thus Eggman stating the destruction of the worlds was being caused by the Chaos and Sol Emeralds should be a more reliable source.
• I argue Sonic didn’t directly stabilize the space-time of the 2 universes with the Chaos Emeralds, but simply stopped the Chaos Emeralds from doing any more damage by controlling their power, thus keeping the universe stable

Arguments against it

• It was initially stated the impending destruction of the two universes was just caused just by the Sol Emeralds
• Sonic stabilized the two worlds with the Chaos Emeralds

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Arguments for the downgrade:

• The combined powers of the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds would perform a 2-C feat, meaning they’d be Low 2-C individually, similar to how we treat the combined power of Beerus and Champabeing able to destroy 2 universes as Low 2-C individually
  • While Blaze initially believed the destruction to be solely caused by the Sol Emeralds, I’d argue she wasn’t fully knowledgeable on the Sol Emeralds’ mechanics at the time, which is backed up by Eggman stating she was ignorant of their power, nor was she aware of the Chaos Emeralds. Thus Eggman stating the destruction of the worlds was being caused by the Chaos and Sol Emeralds thus be a more reliable source.
• I argue Sonic didn’t directly stabilize the space-time of the 2 universes with the Chaos Emeralds, but simply stopped the Chaos Emeralds from doing any more damage by controlling their power, thus keeping the universe stable

Arguments against it

• It was initially stated the impending destruction of the two universes was just caused just by the Sol Emeralds
• Sonic stabilized the two worlds with the Chaos Emeralds

Argument for the downgrade seems more solid at first glance

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

I would say that a valid counter for Beerus and Champa example is how Whis is threated as likely 2-C due to scalling between Both characters destroying the 2 universes as a result of 2 Low 2-C powers clashing against each other.

We could apply this example to how the Egg Salamander absorbs the power of both Emeralds to say he scales to the 2-C effects done by both.

Which is kinda consistent with JED's proposal, but anyway I still think Blaze's statement can still be considered If just the Sol Emeralds alone would cause the effects

 

[Greenshifter]

I’m still against this scaling to Shadow and Silver btw. Not only did Sonic amp them towards 2-C but even if they would have the positive thoughts necessary for low 2-C then it’d be redundant to add it since varies already implies they could get to that tier and they never fought anyone on that level.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I would say that a valid counter for Beerus and Champa example is how Whis is threated as likely 2-C due to scalling between Both characters destroying the 2 universes as a result of 2 Low 2-C powers clashing against each other.

We could apply this example to how the Egg Salamander absorbs the power of both Emeralds to say he scales to the 2-C effects done by both.

Which is kinda consistent with JED's proposal, but anyway I still think Blaze's statement can still be considered If just the Sol Emeralds alone would cause the effects

The Egg Salamander hadn’t drained both sets of Emeralds yet, so he wouldn’t get the Whis treatment.

The Sol Emeralds weren’t causing the effects alone.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I've got three staff members on board, so I just need the profiles unlocked to apply the changes.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If this is applicable these guys would need to be unlocked: Sonic the Hedgehog (Game Character), Shadow the Hedgehog (Game Character), Silver the Hedgehog, Egg Salamander

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

The Egg Salamander hadn’t drained both sets of Emeralds yet, so he wouldn’t get the Whis treatment.

The Sol Emeralds weren’t causing the effects alone.

Isn't actually established by both Eggmans that they had drained both sets of emeralds by the statement of Eggman's future Low 2-C dimension?

I think the Whis treatment can be applied if such case has implications.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

But anyway, this CRT is almost finished, so this can be discussed on a separate one if time is available.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

While they stated their intentions to claim both set of Emeralds, they hadn’t done so yet and only acquired the Sol Emeralds’ power. They claimed they will acquire both the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, not that they already had.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

While they stated their intentions to claim both set of Emeralds, they hadn’t done so yet and only acquired the Sol Emeralds’ power. They claimed they will acquire both the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, not that they already had.

So by that logic he would be eventually 2-C?