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He wasn't "amped" as you are implying, he simply was powered by positive thoughts like in other fights, "amped" implies outside help
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Game Sonic CRT: Low 2-C Supers
- Thread starter ShakeResounding
- Start date
- Status
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Stop derrailing simple CRT's, this CRT will not remove variable tier, it will not remove 4-A, it will not have two low 2-C keys, this is why you can't have Sonic CRT's straight to the point
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So he's always powered by those thoughts and in Solaris's case it was to a greater extent?
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Every single downplayer argument ALWAYS uses the same point of implying positive energy is some outside amp to argue why their favorite characters can beat Sonic and why the Solaris feat is an outlier simply because Solaris has impressive feats because if he didn't nobody would actually argue this. Sonic has a variable tier depending on positive thoughts, there is no "greater extent", the extent from something like the Final Hazard to Egg Wizard is already superior, stop derrailing and focus on the thread
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Yeah, we’ll have to save variable tier discussion for another thread to avoid this one going on for too long.
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What the hell? That shit was entirely uncalled for. All I meant was that Solaris's feat should be the only one to have a separate key, and the way it's written on the page does imply it's not the power super sonic can normally access even though that wasn't even my point here.
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Man this thread blew up while I was away for few hrs......many threads blew up while I was away.....good luck to me catching up to them all
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I’m just happy people still care about Sonic scaling
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No it does not imply that at all, this is what it's said:
There's NOTHING separating Solaris from the rest, this outside help argument is non-sensical because an entire city cheared for Sonic in Adventure, using this outside amp argument Chaos would be the strongest antagonist since he was the one which most people supported Sonic.
We can't have a single straight foward thread without people who don't care about profile quality and only tiers shoving their scaling in unrelated threads, or making unreasonable downgrades or upgrade threads, this isn't directed at an single person, and neither was my previous post
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Lemme rephrase that then. 4-A is taken as the baseline for neutral chaos emeralds. Any feat above that is wielders of the emeralds using positive thoughts to empower themselves. Thus I ask you to prove that Sonic was having exactly equal amounts of positive thoughts when fighting Time Eater, Egg Salamander and Egg Wizard. In fact Egg Salamander being able to harm the hedgehogs despite having a worse feat than Egg Wizard, who can't harm them already implies that they're on a different level of positive thoughts.
if Time Eater has a 2-C feat then that's good, then it'd be at least low 2-C to 2-C for the hogs and Blaze.
I also think this is relevant due to this thread indirectly upgrading Classic Super Sonic if I'm not mistaken.
Edit: the reason why I said "I'm not convinced" is because with certain final bosses you could reasonably assume Sonic was "amped" to an equal or very similar degree if their feats are close and the effort it takes to defeat them is also about equal, such as Time Eater and Phantom King (although this might not be the case) for instance. Then you could say they're close enough that you don't have to give Sonic a new end fight for fighting those characters. But this isn't the case between Egg Salamander and Time Eater, because one will be stronger than the other to a significant enough degree to add a new end, regardless of the fight being a stomp or not.
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That's actually 5-A, 4-A is the baseline for positive thoughts
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The fact that there's a separate key already implies it
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I like this because not only is Time Eater getting 2-C, but this means we keep Egg Salamander at 2-C too lol. But I think it was able to harm Them because of a specific dura negating attack it had.
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That's because you clearly do not understand how variable tier works, stop making "objective" statments about things you don't know, using this logic anything above 4-A is implied to be outside help
The different keys are simple based on how much positive energy Sonic is having based on his foe, which changes depending on the situation, however it's not based on how many are actively amping Sonic, otherwise Chaos would be the strongest
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oh Eclipse cannon right. Well doesn't really change my explanation.
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So what's the problem with my proposal then? Aside from it being bloated, since what I'm getting from this is exactly what I want to apply.
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Why?
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Just the bloated part, however it's not necessary if the Time Eater is 2-C
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So Modern: Varies from 4-A to at least low 2-C to 2-C to higher then? (the higher is for Solaris, the alternative is scaling the other 2-C's to Solaris)
and Classic: Varies from 4-A to low 2-C to 2-C, possibly higher (iirc Phantom King is baseline but can still harm him)
and Classic: Varies from 4-A to low 2-C to 2-C, possibly higher (iirc Phantom King is baseline but can still harm him)
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Phantom King do it with special attacks from the Ruby and can't harm Sonic otherwise though
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We don't need higher if it's the same tier, this feels like overcomplicating again
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It did not use the full power of the stars.
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Does he have invulnerability negation? Also Phantom King didn't get stomped right, that alone should justify the 2 ends.
How else are you gonna make clear that Sonic has 2 AP values within the same tier? Unless you argue he stomped Egg Wizard and Time Eater?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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He should have yes. Sonic indeed stomped the Phantom King, so scaling him to Phantom King is a mistake
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You explain it in the AP section
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,784
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- Thread starter
- #109
The Time Eater was a stomp. It could do nothing to harm either and they murked it's shit lol.
Additionally, I find this "two values within the same AP section" just a little ridiculous. Specifically in the Time Eater's case. Because the fight was an absolute slaughterhouse, as most bosses are that can't harm Super Sonic. For Low 2-C, it's different because we're adding something new to Modern. And in Classic's case, he already casually scales above it. We should not be applying a lower end of 2-C simply because a fight happened. Similar to how we don't see Super Sonic with a 5-A end simply because he fought Perfect Chaos. You get me?
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ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,784
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This is the most concise answer and what was intended for this CRT. The ratings for Supers will be this, with Time Eater exclusively having the rating I discussed previously. This keeps the profiles neat, organized, and easier to understand while also being as accurate as possible. We're making this entire thing so much more convoluted than it needs to be.
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Well if he should have invulnerability negation and that makes him bypass Sonic's stone wall durability then his attacks would still need to be strong enough to bypass his regular durability which should be comparable to his AP. Is there any proof that those special attacks would be both way higher in AP and have invulnerability negation?
5 bucks says at least 10 people are gonna make a vs thread not knowing that Sonic has 2 AP values in 2-C. Probably even some threads to scale Egg Wizard and Time Eater to Solaris.
I mean Supers are a stone wall sure, but is it really a stomp if the bosses can take more than 1 hit from him? Not saying I disagree I just find it kinda arbitrary. Also didn't you guys literally say earlier in that thread that Time Eater might have not been a stomp?
That I get, but I would only apply this if we're really certain that it's a stomp and thus we have no idea how strong Sonic really was during the fight.
Also if you're gonna apply it that way, just make it clear what AP values they actually scale to and how many options there are.
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Also there's a little bit of a weird scaling issue that needs to be solved with Egg Salamander since he can harm supers, who are stone walls.
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Then we try to make it extra clear
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,784
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Whoever said that (which I'm 100% sure wasn't me or else I must've been on crack or something lol) is wrong. Also yeah, it's kinda like Doomguy in the sense that it's canonically a slaughter despite the player potentially being a loser and ******* up a million times.
It is.
It's through specific attacks. It's regular attacks are harmless iirc. Just like how the Phantom King can only do it through specific attacks and such.
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You smoking again Shake?
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Do we scale those specific attacks to half 2-C or his regular ones?
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,784
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- Thread starter
- #117
Let me stop you right there. Yes it does, because Supers on this wiki don't have Invulnerability. They have Stonewall Durability.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,784
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- Thread starter
- #118
Alright Green. Do me a favor and please post all of your shit into one post. You're clogging up the thread when everything you've just said could've been put into one reply. It makes it easier to reply to. It seems like every time I'm forming a reply, you make three new ones.
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Gonna sleep, tomorrow I'll be busy (hopefully) so might take a while till I respond again. Also I had to make it in 2 posts since I couldn't quote you from page 1 and 2 at the same time.
Also I deleted one reply since I read one of yours wrong.
Isn't there some practical invulnerability negation hax that exists rather than true invulnerability? Also I was going off of Gilad's argument.
Also I deleted one reply since I read one of yours wrong.
BlastX
He/Him- 5,543
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I don't recall much about the 3DS fight, but Console Time Eater fight was a complete and utter stomp.
Both Super Sonic laughs off everyone of it's attacks, even it's strongest one multiple times while they literally tear it apart (losses arms mid fight) and the only way for it to beat them is by non canon time limit.
And yes I know, Stone Wall Dura but usually bosses have an attack that can damage Super Sonic, TE has zero, nada.
Both Super Sonic laughs off everyone of it's attacks, even it's strongest one multiple times while they literally tear it apart (losses arms mid fight) and the only way for it to beat them is by non canon time limit.
And yes I know, Stone Wall Dura but usually bosses have an attack that can damage Super Sonic, TE has zero, nada.
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