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He wasn't "amped" as you are implying, he simply was powered by positive thoughts like in other fights, "amped" implies outside helpI get why Solaris gets a separate key cause sonic was amped
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He wasn't "amped" as you are implying, he simply was powered by positive thoughts like in other fights, "amped" implies outside helpI get why Solaris gets a separate key cause sonic was amped
So he's always powered by those thoughts and in Solaris's case it was to a greater extent?He wasn't "amped" as you are implying, he simply was powered by positive thoughts like in other fights, "amped" implies outside help
What the hell? That shit was entirely uncalled for. All I meant was that Solaris's feat should be the only one to have a separate key, and the way it's written on the page does imply it's not the power super sonic can normally access even though that wasn't even my point here.Every single downplayer argument ALWAYS uses the same point of implying positive energy is some outside amp to argue why their favorite characters can beat Sonic and why the Solaris feat is an outlier simply because Solaris has impressive feats because if he didn't nobody would actually argue this. Sonic has a variable tier depending on positive thoughts, there is no "greater extent", the extent from something like the Final Hazard to Egg Wizard is already superior, stop derrailing and focus on the thread
I’m just happy people still care about Sonic scalingMan this thread blew up while I was away for few hrs......many threads blew up while I was away.....good luck to me catching up to them all
No it does not imply that at all, this is what it's said:and the way it's written on the page does imply it's not the power super sonic can normally access even though that wasn't even my point here.
There's NOTHING separating Solaris from the rest, this outside help argument is non-sensical because an entire city cheared for Sonic in Adventure, using this outside amp argument Chaos would be the strongest antagonist since he was the one which most people supported Sonic.When fully charged with positive energy, he was able to defeat Solaris alongside Super Shadow and Super Silver. Defeated the Egg Salamander and Egg Wizard alongside Burning Blaze. Easily defeated the Time Eater alongside Classic Super Sonic and reversed all the damage it caused across multiple timelines
Lemme rephrase that then. 4-A is taken as the baseline for neutral chaos emeralds. Any feat above that is wielders of the emeralds using positive thoughts to empower themselves. Thus I ask you to prove that Sonic was having exactly equal amounts of positive thoughts when fighting Time Eater, Egg Salamander and Egg Wizard. In fact Egg Salamander being able to harm the hedgehogs despite having a worse feat than Egg Wizard, who can't harm them already implies that they're on a different level of positive thoughts.I'm sorry, but just saying "I don't think like he does and therefore he's not" isn't enough.
Time Eater already have a 2-C feat by destryoing both Sonic's and Blaze's worlds in the 3DS version, and Sonic and Silver's world in the Console/PC version
That's actually 5-A, 4-A is the baseline for positive thoughts4-A is taken as the baseline for neutral chaos emeralds.
The fact that there's a separate key already implies itNo it does not imply that at all, this is what it's said:
There's NOTHING separating Solaris from the rest, this outside help argument is non-sensical because an entire city cheared for Sonic in Adventure, using this outside amp argument Chaos would be the strongest antagonist since he was the one which most people supported Sonic.
We can't have a single straight foward thread without people who don't care about profile quality and only tiers shoving their scaling in unrelated threads, or making unreasonable downgrades or upgrade threads, this isn't directed at an single person, and neither was my previous post
I like this because not only is Time Eater getting 2-C, but this means we keep Egg Salamander at 2-C too lol. But I think it was able to harm Them because of a specific dura negating attack it had.In fact Egg Salamander being able to harm the hedgehogs despite having a worse feat than Egg Wizard, who can't harm them already implies that they're on a different level of positive thoughts.
if Time Eater has a 2-C feat then that's good, then it'd be at least low 2-C to 2-C for the hogs and Blaze.
That's because you clearly do not understand how variable tier works, stop making "objective" statments about things you don't know, using this logic anything above 4-A is implied to be outside helpThe fact that there's a separate key already implies it
oh Eclipse cannon right. Well doesn't really change my explanation.That's actually 5-A, 4-A is the baseline for positive thoughtsand in the future negative
So what's the problem with my proposal then? Aside from it being bloated, since what I'm getting from this is exactly what I want to apply.The different keys are simple based on how much positive energy Sonic is having based on his foe, which changes depending on the situation
Why?Egg Wizard should lose its 2-C rating as well.
Just the bloated part, however it's not necessary if the Time Eater is 2-CSo what's the problem with my proposal then? Aside from it being bloated, since what I'm getting from this is exactly what I want to apply.
Phantom King do it with special attacks from the Ruby and can't harm Sonic otherwise thoughSo Modern: Varies from 4-A to at least low 2-C to 2-C to higher then? (the higher is for Solaris, the alternative is scaling the other 2-C's to Solaris)
and Classic: Varies from 4-A to low 2-C to 2-C, possibly higher (iirc Phantom King is baseline but can still harm him)
It did not use the full power of the stars.Why?
Does he have invulnerability negation? Also Phantom King didn't get stomped right, that alone should justify the 2 ends.Phantom King do it with special attacks from the Ruby and can't harm Sonic otherwise though
How else are you gonna make clear that Sonic has 2 AP values within the same tier? Unless you argue he stomped Egg Wizard and Time Eater?We don't need higher if it's the same tier, this feels like overcomplicating again
He should have yes. Sonic indeed stomped the Phantom King, so scaling him to Phantom King is a mistakeDoes he have invulnerability negation? Also Phantom King didn't get stomped right, that alone should justify the 2 ends.
You explain it in the AP sectionHow else are you gonna make clear that Sonic has 2 AP values within the same tier? Unless you argue he stomped Egg Wizard and Time Eater?
The Time Eater was a stomp. It could do nothing to harm either and they murked it's shit lol.How else are you gonna make clear that Sonic has 2 AP values within the same tier? Unless you argue he stomped Egg Wizard and Time Eater?
This is the most concise answer and what was intended for this CRT. The ratings for Supers will be this, with Time Eater exclusively having the rating I discussed previously. This keeps the profiles neat, organized, and easier to understand while also being as accurate as possible. We're making this entire thing so much more convoluted than it needs to be.But in all seriousness, let’s just make it “Varies from 4-A to Low 2-C to 2-C”.
Well if he should have invulnerability negation and that makes him bypass Sonic's stone wall durability then his attacks would still need to be strong enough to bypass his regular durability which should be comparable to his AP. Is there any proof that those special attacks would be both way higher in AP and have invulnerability negation?He should have yes. Sonic indeed stomped the Phantom King, so scaling him to Phantom King is a mistake
5 bucks says at least 10 people are gonna make a vs thread not knowing that Sonic has 2 AP values in 2-C. Probably even some threads to scale Egg Wizard and Time Eater to Solaris.You explain it in the AP section
I mean Supers are a stone wall sure, but is it really a stomp if the bosses can take more than 1 hit from him? Not saying I disagree I just find it kinda arbitrary. Also didn't you guys literally say earlier in that thread that Time Eater might have not been a stomp?The Time Eater was a stomp. It could do nothing to harm either and they murked it's shit lol.
That I get, but I would only apply this if we're really certain that it's a stomp and thus we have no idea how strong Sonic really was during the fight.Similar to how we don't see Super Sonic with a 5-A end simply because he fought Perfect Chaos. You get me?
Then we try to make it extra clear5 bucks says at least 10 people are gonna make a vs thread not knowing that Sonic has 2 AP values in 2-C. Probably even some threads to scale Egg Wizard and Time Eater to Solaris.
Whoever said that (which I'm 100% sure wasn't me or else I must've been on crack or something lol) is wrong. Also yeah, it's kinda like Doomguy in the sense that it's canonically a slaughter despite the player potentially being a loser and ******* up a million times.I mean Supers are a stone wall sure, but is it really a stomp if the bosses can take more than 1 hit from him? Not saying I disagree I just find it kinda arbitrary. Also didn't you guys literally say earlier in that thread that Time Eater might have not been a stomp?
It is.That I get, but I would only apply this if we're really certain that it's a stomp and thus we have no idea how strong Sonic really was during the fight.
It's through specific attacks. It's regular attacks are harmless iirc. Just like how the Phantom King can only do it through specific attacks and such.Also there's a little bit of a weird scaling issue that needs to be solved with Egg Salamander since he can harm supers, who are stone walls.
You smoking again Shake?Ah, I completely forgot about the 3DS version. I... I guess Time Eater could scale at that rate?
Do we scale those specific attacks to half 2-C or his regular ones?It's through specific attacks. It's regular attacks are harmless iirc. Just like how the Phantom King can only do it through specific attacks and such.
Let me stop you right there. Yes it does, because Supers on this wiki don't have Invulnerability. They have Stonewall Durability.Sure but that doesn't mean that his specific attacks are stronger than his regular ones
Isn't there some practical invulnerability negation hax that exists rather than true invulnerability? Also I was going off of Gilad's argument.Let me stop you right there. Yes it does, because Supers on this wiki don't have Invulnerability. They have Stonewall Durability.