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Fairy Tail Speed Revisions

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>Prove that Erza is stronger than Base Irene.

I mean...feats speak from themselves. The proof is already there. Now prove Irene is stronger than the current Erza.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Okay but why is only Laxus possibly stronger? Base Erza is 8.8 gigatons while base Irene is only scaling massively above 2.2 gigatons. Not seeing why Erza can't be stronger if not, at the very least, comparable.
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Comparable but to a certain agree. Needed to transform into her strongest armor + enchanted and was still getting pushed around by Base Irene that wasn't trying. Erza (Strongest Armor) should be scales but not Base Erza (her standard armor)
 
Once again, that's X792 Erza, she got stronger over a year, only use evidence for 100 Year's Quest to justify why she can't scale above Base Irene
 
BlackeJan said:
Comparable but to a certain agree. Needed to transform into her strongest armor + enchanted and was still getting pushed around by Base Irene that wasn't trying. Erza (Strongest Armor) should be scales but not Base Erza (her standard armor)
Click to expand...
You're talking about a younger version of Erza before the time skip and training. Why do you think she only scales to Irene with her strongest armor after a year of training?
 
Cause she was getting ridiculously tossed around in her strongest armor. Then why does she need to scales even in her standard armor?
 
You're not getting it, that was X792 Erza, 100 Year Quest Base Erza is stronger and could definitely be stronger than Base Irene
 
BlackeJan you're comparing a younger Erza to a current Erza whose feats outrank her younger self and you've still yet to prove that Irene is equal to the current Erza. We've proven the positive with feats, now prove the negative. Prove with actual numbers and feats that show Base Irene being stronger than current Erza.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
BlackeJan you're comparing a younger Erza to a current Erza whose feats outrank her younger self and you've still yet to prove that Irene is equal to the current Erza. We've proven the positive with feats, now prove the negative. Prove with actual numbers and feats that show Base Irene being stronger than current Erza.
Click to expand...
That's honestly not ok cause what makes Base Erza currently stronger then Base Irene? where is your proof that she is now stronger? U can keep coming at me with no facts when u haven't prove anything yourself. I don't see a statement anywhere saying she's stronger then Base Irene so that right there is proof that Base Erza isn't stronger then Base Irene unless I'm her Strongest Armor. Prove with an actual statement then I'll let it go otherwise it's nothing but headcanon

EDIT: why the heck y'all keep talking about a younger Erza? I'm not using her for anything it's not hard to see that Current Erza is stronger yes but where is also the proof that she's above Base Irene?
 
Current Erza and past Erza are being compared because they are all that is relevant to the scaling, Irene isn't.

Erza is far stronger than she was a year ago, that is all that we need to consider, Irene is not relevant to the current scaling of the 100YQ characters because she's not relevant to the plot. Irene is dead and as such we can only place her power level at what it was at the time of her passing, but what this means is that moving forward any advancement any other character makes is independent of Irene's own strength, hence she is no longer massively relevant to the scaling, unless the series itself makes her so in the present.

TLDR; Irene is not relevant to the plot hence we have no reason to limit the growth of all the other characters because of her.
 
@David

I just want to say thank you for being THE ONLY ONE to actually being in argument HOWEVER I know Current Erza is stronger BUT just because Irene is dead doesn't mean that she is inferior to Base Erza herself.

Ex: before RoF, 1st Form Frieza was dead for a long time but that doesn't mean that Roshi is stronger then him during that time.

I can agree that I don't have anything other then my own headcanon about Standard Armor Erza being stronger then Base Irene BUT there is also no proof that Erza also surpassed Irene herself. We just know she got stronger ok that's cool but is she even strong enough to be Base Irene herself?
 
@Blacke if you are aware that your argument relies on your own headcanon, please don't derail this thread any further from this point.

We scale 100YQ characters to 6-C by the fact that Natsu beat someone with added powers up to 4x. That's all you need to know about the scaling. Arguing that they are not because some dead woman was X strong before isn't correct, and no matter how many false equivalencies you use you will not change this.
 
I love how you simply don't except the feats Erza has in this arc as evidence here. You have to prove that Irene is comparable to current Erza. You can keep dismissing evidence all you want, but the fact that she flat out has higher feats and scaling in the arc is what puts her above base Irene who is not in this arc. We've been saying this the entire time. You are just being pigheaded and ignoring it and yet you have the ******* nerve to say that we are using no argument? This lack of self awareness is astounding, I should study it.
 
@Dragon

Her feat only stems from a mutiplier lol are you kidding me? it aint rocket science to know why they are even 6C to begin with. Yeah u dont have an argument hence why u try to not acknowledge about it when really all u can say is "she got stronger so she should be stronger then someone else". Looks like someone need to get glasses or read a bit more, its honestly quite surprising that i should look into this.

@Calaca

Everyone else is also using headcanon as well. I admit after thinking about it some time that idk if Base Erza is stronger then Base Irene but neither do yall know either when there is no proof or statment of her surpassing Irene herself
 
"Her feat only stems from a mutiplier lol are you kidding me? it aint rocket science to know why they are even 6C to begin with."

Yeah, and guess what, it's above Irene's feats. Mulitplier or not, it's still a feat. Ergo it's a feat above Irene who has nothing to prove she scales. This doesn't change my argument whatsoever. I never even argued why they are 6-C, just that they are 6-C via feats. Nice strawman though.

"Yeah u dont have an argument hence why u try to not acknowledge about it when really all u can say is "she got stronger so she should be stronger then someone else". "

Ironically more than you bring to the table. She's got a stronger feat, she's stronger. That's literally all that's needed. Her current scaling doesn't involve Irene who is completely irrelevant at this point in time. Try again and actually post a counter besides "I don't believe Erza to be stronger" It's good to see that lack of self awareness never dies.

"Everyone else is also using headcanon as well."

No, we are using current feats that don't involve Irene. Our stats have more backing them than yours does. But let's just ignore that because Erza can't possibly be stronger than Irene despite her having feats above her. The Burden of Proof is now on you to prove Irene is still stronger the Erza. I'll wait.

"I admit after thinking about it some time that idk if Base Erza is stronger then Base Irene but neither do yall know either when there is no proof or statment of her surpassing Irene herself"

A statement isn't needed. We have feats that Erza scales to that Irene doesn't. We have more proving our side than you. Do you even know how evidence works? This is not an argument BlackeJan.
 
@Dragon

Ah i see you are still throwing a fit. Erza has an stronger AP because of a multiplier, take that away and she would still be High 7A. Yeah u need to read a bit more since what i said above (my example) should matter in this process.

Anyways since apparently u still need a bottle and a bib and i can feel the anger from a kid who doesnt know how to argue normally ill stop since Calaca and David gave me a reason why Mitch is correct. Come back to hold another argument when you are done getting mad
 
Goku grew stronger than King Piccolo at the time of 23rd Tournament, but if for some dumb reason it's not stated that he is stronger now, we can't assume he is, even if he has feats far above KP's.

This is what you are advocating for. Literally asking to be spoonfed by authors even when evidence is clear and obvious.

Drop the subject. You're pulling at straws to prove a flawed point.
 
"Ah i see you are still throwing a fit. Erza has an stronger AP because of a multiplier, take that away and she would still be High 7A. Yeah u need to read a bit more since what i said above (my example) should matter in this process. "

No one's throwing a fit, I am just amazed at the lack of self awareness you are displaying. And guess what, it's still a feat above Irene's. What point of it being a higher feat do you not understand. You are trying to be snarky when the evidence doesn't go to your side. It being a multiplier is irrelevant here as she still scales to someone stronger than Irene by feats and thus by feats and scaling she is also stronger than Irene. This is so simple.

"Anyways since apparently u still need a bottle and a bib and i can feel the anger from a kid who doesnt know how to argue normally ill stop since Calaca and David gave me a reason why Mitch is correct. Come back to hold another argument when you are done getting mad"

Oh my this hurts me so much. What a masterful argument. Keep up the non-arguments please. Also, my arguments were the same as theirs? Like, you tell me to read when you haven't read a single one of my arguments. Your avoiding my points in order to try and be a snarky asshole when in truth you look like an absolute fool. Next time address my points. And to prove you haven't read a single thing I said, let's quote Calaca, David and myself shall we?

David Argument #1: "Erza is far stronger than she was a year ago, that is all that we need to consider,"

My Argument: "BlackeJan you're comparing a younger Erza to a current Erza whose feats outrank her younger self".

David Argument #2: "Current Erza and past Erza are being compared because they are all that is relevant to the scaling, Irene isn't."

My Argument: "but the fact that she flat out has higher feats and scaling in the arc is what puts her above base Irene who is not in this arc."

My Argument: "No, we are using current feats that don't involve Irene."

Calaca's Argument #1: "We scale 100YQ characters to 6-C by the fact that Natsu beat someone with added powers up to 4x. That's all you need to know about the scaling."

My Argument: "but the fact that she flat out has higher feats and scaling in the arc is what puts her above base Irene who is not in this arc. We've been saying this the entire time."

My Argument: "Yeah, and guess what, it's above Irene's feats. Mulitplier or not, it's still a feat. Ergo it's a feat above Irene who has nothing to prove she scales. This doesn't change my argument"

Calaca Argument #2: " Arguing that they are not because some dead woman was X strong before isn't correct,"

My Argument: "but the fact that she flat out has higher feats and scaling in the arc is what puts her above base Irene who is not in this arc. We've been saying this the entire time." (This is the third time I've had to post this comment BlackeJan...)

Yup, I'm the one who needs to read more. Please, you haven't even paid attention to any of my argument. Drop it as you are blatantly in the wrong.
 
The Calaca said:
Goku grew stronger than King Piccolo at the time of 23rd Tournament, but if for some dumb reason it's not stated that he is stronger now, we can't assume he is, even if he has feats far above KP's.
This is what you are advocating for. Literally asking to be spoonfed by authors even when evidence is clear and obvious.

Drop the subject. You're pulling at straws to prove a flawed point.
Click to expand...
Huh? where did this come from? i already said that u and David gave me a reason for Mtch to be correct but ok evidnece is SHOWN though since they fought. Current Erza and Base Irene havent fought so of course its going to be speculation

@Dragon

Yeah imma go buy you some glasses if you didnt even read my post that was 33 mins ago compared to your 15 mins which means you are so angry that you just had to type that so again when you are done thowing a tantrum let me know so we can go back to having a civilize argument
 
BlackeJan, you have addressed nothing. Also, I literally quoted and addressed your arguments. Like seriously. No one's throwing a tantrum. How about you stop ignoring my points and acting like I "didn't read anything" especially when all my posts serve to prove you factually incorrect in this manner. Like, are you daft? Or are you trying to act like you're in the right here when I can easily prove that to be false.

I argue a point, you call it a tantrum. Kinda hard to be nice to a person who willingly ignores point made towards him and proceeds to say you haven't made an argument when you factually prove you have. You are so full of shit. It's honestly embarrassing that you are this pigheaded. Grow up. You don't sound smart at all, you actually sound like a delusional fool.

I have made my point clear and if you choose to ignore it so be it. Have a nice day.
 
18 Y/O Goku and King Piccolo didn't fight either, how can you support your notion that Irene is above Erza when she has no reason to scale to the spooky scary dude while Erza does? It's quite simple, you can't.

To both @Dragonmaster and @BlackeJan I'm telling you to stop. This is getting progressively more needlessly hostile over irrelevant reasons.

This is a speed thread where Irene has nothing to do with at first. We're just derailing the thread with this pointless discussion.

Erza is 6-C, Irene is High 7-A. Erza scales above Irene by numbers until something in 100YQ manga contradicts it.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
BlackeJan, you have addressed nothing. Also, I literally quoted and addressed your arguments. Like seriously. No one's throwing a tantrum. How about you stop ignoring my points and acting like I "didn't read anything" especially when all my posts serve to prove you factually incorrect in this manner. Like, are you daft? Or are you trying to act like you're in the right here when I can easily prove that to be false.
I argue a point, you call it a tantrum. Kinda hard to be nice to a person who willingly ignores point made towards him and proceeds to say you haven't made an argument when you factually prove you have. You are so full of shit. It's honestly embarrassing that you are this pigheaded. Grow up. You don't sound smart at all, you actually sound like a delusional fool.

I have made my point clear and if you choose to ignore it so be it. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
I say you are throwing a tantrum because your words had bites in it. U also keep trying to find a way to get the last laugh when i CLEARLY said that Mitch was correct so i dont know what is wrong with you but get over it already. I never ignored your points but had my own counterarguments to go against it like do you not know how to engage in one? You are so pathetic it quite sad to see this generation become what you are. Get the pacifier out the mouth and quit throwing a tantrum. You dont sound smart at all you actually sound like someone who was just born.

I have made it clear and if you chose to not grow up then so be it. Have a nice day
 
@Calaca

Sorry just saw it but i already admit that Mitch was correct so idk why Dragon keeps up bringing the argument but yes i will stop
 
"I say you are throwing a tantrum because your words had bites in it."

You mean me being blunt and annoyed? Yeah, totally throwing a tantrum.

" U also keep trying to find a way to get the last laugh when i CLEARLY said that Mitch was correct so i dont know what is wrong with you but get over it already."

You seem to conveniently leave out the part where you blatantly say I didn't provide an argument, which I disproved? Are you just going to ignore the main thing I am currently going against? You say something that is objectively wrong, I will point it out.

" I never ignored your points but had my own counterarguments to go against it like do you not know how to engage in one?"

Funny how I actually countered your point and said counters you had were baseless.

"You are so pathetic it quite sad to see this generation become what you are. Get the pacifier out the mouth and quit throwing a tantrum."

Okay Boomer.

"You dont sound smart at all you actually sound like someone who was just born."

Coming from the one who had no evidence to prove his claims in hysterical. You are not a clown, but the entire circus.

"I have made it clear and if you chose to not grow up then so be it."

The fact that you are willfully ignorant of the point of my arguments just goes to show that you are basically spitting hot air just to sound like the correct one in this situation.

"idk why Dragon keeps up bringing the argument but yes i will stop"

Did you ever stop to think that maybe I was trying to counter your claim of me not presenting an argument? Or are we just going to ignore this fact. It makes you look bad, so I assume so.
 
@BlackeJan

Mind your language, try to be less argumentative and unreasonable, and stop provoking and insulting the staff. Consider this as an official warning.

@Dragonmasterxyz

As staff members we have to try to keep our cool as best we can, even under provocation. Please try to calm down, and remain polite. If necessary take some time off before you respond.
 
Okay, so they clashed evenly but Erza fell off first.

Now the scaling is bullet-proof.

We still need to see Jvando's calc to see if we either scale them to Mach 4K or to 0.04c.

@Shadow that's unquantifiable.
 
Honestly, no one should scale any higher than Alvarez for obvious reasons, such as the enemies they have fought, besides the Dragon Gods do not display or are stated to be no where stronger the likes of the Spriggans, these enemies now are really hax base or using cheap methods to win
 
What's non-logical, it is already stated that no magic natsu is on par with Madmole, so any feats he would show to suggest any upgrades before hand is a retcon.

EDIT: well it is not like the Thread wasn't derailed already about how it is talking about AP instead of the Speed feats before
 
The Calaca said:
Okay, so they clashed evenly but Erza fell off first.

Now the scaling is bullet-proof.

We still need to see Jvando's calc to see if we either scale them to Mach 4K or to 0.04c.

@Shadow that's unquantifiable.
Click to expand...
made of Laxus was not 3% SoL?
 
I'm gonna say this once more.

You want to talk about the scaling for 100YQ characters as a whole? Go do it ANYWHERE else. Do NOT derail this thread.

I'll proceed to delete the comments that talk about the scaling for those characters now. I'm done with the off-topic discussions in this thread.

Edit: Don't use dumb arguments like "oh, this has been derailed before so what's the deal with it now" as it makes you look idiotic for suggesting that it wasn't bad before and it suddenly is now.

@Shadow Laxus' feat is 4.2% while Erza's feat is Mach 4800. The difference is about 7.7x between feats, so either Erza's feat is casual as **** (rendering lightnings worthless in general) or Laxus' feat is an outlier (discounting the fact that we can't see when he started jumping so we don't know for sure he did it the way the calc depicts it).
 
Mitch edited the calculation and is now Mach 4,266 and 3% SoL, so Laxus's feat is about 6.2x larger than Erza's

I still think the Characters are faster than Alvarez, but I will wait for the Jvando Calculation
 
Wether it is going to be massively outlier or something underwhelming, either way, we are likely not going to see anything impressive at all.

Characters would not be any faster than in Alvarez or in previous arcs
 
@Shadow ah, I see. I didn't know. Well, the difference is still pretty big so nothing changes much from that point.
 
CNBA3 said:
Wether it is going to be massively outlier or something underwhelming, either way, we are likely not going to see anything impressive at all.

Characters would not be any faster than in Alvarez or in previous arcs
Click to expand...
they had a whole year to get faster, so I can't understand why you think they wouldn't be faster than in Alvarez
 
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