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Elderspell Nicol Bolas & The Planeswalker Passives (Magic: The Gathering)

ActuallySpaceMan42

ActuallySpaceMan42

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This CRT is to add the Elderspell Nicol Bolas Key to his profile as well as the reasoning that he should be potentially Multiversal. This adds the passives that The Planeswalker should have listed in his own profile.

=Nicol Bolas=
At least Universe level+, possibly Multiverse level+ (Within the first few seconds of using The Elderspell Nicol Bolas obtained power equal to his Oldwalker self. It's stated by Ugin that if nothing is done to stop him, he would become a threat to The Multiverse, with no Planeswalkers doubting his ability to do that. Just by speaking into his gem which contained his power from The Elderspell, his voice spread across The Multiverse spreading terrors and nightmares. The Elderspell is specifically stated that once complete the user becomes 'Omnipotent' and by utilizing it Nicol Bolas states in MTGA that he has the ability to remake the entire Multiverse, which is infinite.)


=The Planeswalker=
Besides all of the stuff below I think it should be a given that The Planeswalker's Tier should say, Varies via summoning due to him being able to summon creatures like The Ur-Dragon who is Low 1-C (6-D).

At least High Universal level, likely Universe level+, possibly Multiverse level+ (Upon awakening their spark an Oldwalker becomes one with the Universe and obtains infinite power through them. The Planeswalker is superior to Nicol Bolas having defeated him in Magic: The Gathering Arena. In their battle Nicol Bolas was amped with the Elderspell and claimed to be capable of remaking the entire Multiverse in his image.)
If the possibly Multiverse level+ is accepted, then the Planeswalker would also gain possibly Multiverse level+ due to defeating Nicol Bolas as he was using the Elderspell.

Simply put the Leylines are Enchantments The Planeswalker can choose to start a match with activated and act just like passives.
 
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Nicol Bolas's stuff definitely seems fine.
 
Instead of possibly, AP should be potentially multiversal+ imo.

Rest looks fine at a glance.
 
Why does Obliterate equal Existence Erasure? It doesnt say such a thing in the scan.

In rest looks good.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Why does Obliterate equal Existence Erasure? It doesnt say such a thing in the scan.

In rest looks good.
Click to expand...
I was just basing off context the context of the word, since obliterating means destroyed completely without a trace. Oketra is never mentioned again not even as a corpse and he has shown the ability to use existence erasure before.
 
It needs more context or explaination for it since it doesn't directly say it in the scan.

It could have been a destruction that leave no trace behind like a vaporization, deconstruction, etc. If you have not another backing for it then its a no.

If he has other showing of EE then post these scans.

Will look again later through the proposed scans as im on phone.
 
Well, trying to verify again the Leyline (Passives) but the website is down, I think you should make screenshots of the cards when the website is once again online as it seems this could happen in future and the only way to look at the cards would be to go on other websites. Basically, make scans for the cards and upload them like that, not linking the series's wiki.

If Leyline of the Void is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.
If a card would be put into an opponent’s graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead. - Leyline of Void from Scryfall website. I don't remember if it was the same but how does this give a passive Void and Causality Manipulation?
 
Well, trying to verify again the Leyline (Passives) but the website is down, I think you should make screenshots of the cards when the website is once again online as it seems this could happen in future and the only way to look at the cards would be to go on other websites. Basically, make scans for the cards and upload them like that, not linking the series's wiki.
Click to expand...
Ya, I only did that so I wouldn't have to put reference links behind each card since cards can be made with MTG Card creators.
Zaratthustra said:
If Leyline of the Void is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.
If a card would be put into an opponent’s graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead. - Leyline of Void from Scryfall website. I don't remember if it was the same but how does this give a passive Void and Causality Manipulation?
Click to expand...
The Void in MTG is the Blind Eternities which erases things from existence since no other place is referred to as the void.

Anything that dies or is destroyed, is sacrificed, or even in some cases erased from existence, in MTG goes to the Graveyard, it's the natural effect that occurs.

So Voidleylines:

Human Dies --- > (Graveyard) (Void)

Item is destroyed ---> (Graveyard) (Void)

Spell that allows you to send something to the graveyard ---> Spell that allows you to send something to the graveyard void.

You get the idea, only reason I say its Causality Manipulation is because it says instead, it directly cancels out the effect of something going to the graveyard.
 
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I don't see why it would be sent to the void...just because it uses the Void as a leyline it doesn't mean it will send the target there.

"instead" to me seem to me like it would be BFR for it say exile not causality manipulation.
 
Zaratthustra said:
I don't see why it would be sent to the void...just because it uses the Void as a leyline it doesn't mean it will send the target there.

"instead" to me seem to me like it would be BFR for it say exile not causality manipulation.
Click to expand...
I have a few reasons in my case.

I doubt it's BFR as cards like that usually follow a set line of instructions.
Journey to Nowhere, when cast exiles a target and they cannot return until the Enchantment is destroyed or removed in some way.
The same goes for a card like Prison Realm, usually, enchantment BFR is listed like this.

Another thing is the Flavor Text, 'Where treachery and oblivion converge'
In my opinion, it sounds a bit intense to describe a potentially peaceful BFR to a random place, but it would make sense if it was the Blind Eternities.

Lastly, I should note the Graveyard is the act of dying, a creature isn't dead until it goes to the graveyard. The same goes for, an artifact or whatever as it isn't destroyed until it enters the graveyard.

It's pretty clear it's replacing the effect of death after the cause since MTG Rulings state: "While Leyline of the Void is on the battlefield, nontoken creatures your opponents control won't die. They'll be exiled instead. Abilities that would trigger when those creatures die won't trigger."

So even casting a spell that causes Deconstruction (Cause) won't cause the target to turn to dust and kill them (Normally the Effect), it instead exiles them. (New Effect)

Anyway, I'm willing to settle for a Possible since I can tell it's pretty vague.
 
Leyline of the Void - To me, not even possible seems plausible in this case as it's too vague. More opinions are welcomed regarding this. So I will ping the people who accepted and see their opinion regarding what I said above and for the bellow words. @Moritzva @Confluctor @Gonzalo

Leyline of Anticipation - Statistics Amplification doesn't work as this is temporary power, not a permanent one. This is not even a power, but just that the Player can cast the spells without channeling, or needing to wait for a cast like saying an incantation, waving hands etc. This should just be added in a feat section, explanation or mention in the Magic power parenthesis that thanks to the "Anticipation" the Player can cast the spells in a flash.

Leyline of Combustion - Works.

Leyline of Lifeforce - Works I guess as a specialized power that counters the ability of others to stop the Player from summoning.

Leyline of Lightning - Firstly, your link is Leyline of Lifeforce (which seems no one observed....). Secondly, it seems that it needs to pay mana before its used so hardly a passive. It says that the "damage is dealt before the creature spell resolves" but only if used. This is just lightning manipulation that could likely home the attack but nothing more.

Leyline of Punishment - Could work I guess.

Leyline of Sanctify - How is this Law Manipulation? This one is really vague about which power could work as it just says "You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)" . I think a Possible Vector Manipulation would fit better as it makes the target not "target-able".

Leyline of Singularity - I don't understand this one really well so please explain it.

Leyline of Vitality - works.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Leyline of Anticipation - Statistics Amplification doesn't work as this is temporary power, not a permanent one. This is not even a power, but just that the Player can cast the spells without channeling, or needing to wait for a cast like saying an incantation, waving hands etc. This should just be added in a feat section, explanation or mention in the Magic power parenthesis that thanks to the "Anticipation" the Player can cast the spells in a flash.
Click to expand...
I guess but I think it's important that this is noted in Speed at least. Flash is equivalent to making every spell an Instant, which as the name implies is spells that can be cast at instant speed. It should be considered an amp in that case since it would allow them to rapid-fire spells instantly even if speed is equalized.
Leyline of Lightning - Firstly, your link is Leyline of Lifeforce (which seems no one observed....). Secondly, it seems that it needs to pay mana before its used so hardly a passive. It says that the "damage is dealt before the creature spell resolves" but only if used. This is just lightning manipulation that could likely home the attack but nothing more.
Click to expand...
That's fair I didn't notice that my bad.
Leyline of Sanctify - How is this Law Manipulation? This one is really vague about which power could work as it just says "You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)" . I think a Possible Vector Manipulation would fit better as it makes the target not "target-able".
Click to expand...
You're right I think Power Modification would be best. Hexproof makes it so you can't be the target of a spell or ability, so if someone wants to target you with a fireball, or target you specifically with existence erasure, then they can't. It just makes them inapplicable as a target for any 1 on 1 ability, AOE would still work though.
Leyline of Singularity - I don't understand this one really well so please explain it.
Click to expand...
Legendary is a status that can go on pretty much anything that's not a spell or ability. Only one of each type of Legendary can be on the field at once, and if there are duplicates then they will be destroyed. So you can't have two of the same sword if they're both legendary, one will be destroyed making it a singularity.
 
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ActuallySpaceMan said:
You're right I think Power Modification would be best. Hexproof makes it so you can't be the target of a spell or ability, so if someone wants to target you with a fireball, or target you specifically with existence erasure, then they can't. It just makes them inapplicable as a target for any 1 on 1 ability, AOE would still work though.
Click to expand...
It seems like Vector Manipulation.
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Legendary is a status that can go on pretty much anything that's not a spell or ability. Only one of each type of Legendary can be on the field at once, and if there are duplicates then they will be destroyed. So you can't have two of the same sword if they're both legendary, one will be destroyed making it a singularity.
Click to expand...
I guess the ability seems feasible.

For the other, I am fine with Zaratthustra and Confluctor agree.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Leyline of the Void - To me, not even possible seems plausible in this case as it's too vague. More opinions are welcomed regarding this. So I will ping the people who accepted and see their opinion regarding what I said above and for the bellow words. @Moritzva @Confluctor @Gonzalo

Leyline of Anticipation - Statistics Amplification doesn't work as this is temporary power, not a permanent one. This is not even a power, but just that the Player can cast the spells without channeling, or needing to wait for a cast like saying an incantation, waving hands etc. This should just be added in a feat section, explanation or mention in the Magic power parenthesis that thanks to the "Anticipation" the Player can cast the spells in a flash.

Leyline of Combustion - Works.

Leyline of Lifeforce - Works I guess as a specialized power that counters the ability of others to stop the Player from summoning.

Leyline of Lightning - Firstly, your link is Leyline of Lifeforce (which seems no one observed....). Secondly, it seems that it needs to pay mana before its used so hardly a passive. It says that the "damage is dealt before the creature spell resolves" but only if used. This is just lightning manipulation that could likely home the attack but nothing more.

Leyline of Punishment - Could work I guess.

Leyline of Sanctify - How is this Law Manipulation? This one is really vague about which power could work as it just says "You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)" . I think a Possible Vector Manipulation would fit better as it makes the target not "target-able".

Leyline of Singularity - I don't understand this one really well so please explain it.

Leyline of Vitality - works.
Click to expand...
Leyline of the Void is a bit vague but we have to use our best judgement, even the flavor text directly states "oblivion". It's not much but I can't say I don't see the reasons for it.

Anticipation isn't Stat Amp, I agree, but I dunno what it would be as we don't really have a power for this sort of ultra-specific "I can react to anything" sort of power.

Leyline of Lightning, I didn't notice the link because I didn't use it, I just know what the effect is lol. I would still say it's passive, though, as it's a passive effect of lightning combining with all spells used. It's not a traditional passive, but it's still a passive effect that passively provides a bonus whenever an action is taken.

Sanctity is very odd again, but it's down to interpretation. You could say it's a mix of power modification and law manipulation, as it is creating a rule preventing you from targeting The Planeswalker. I wouldn't say vector, since it's not changing any vectors, it's passively preventing you from aiming at them. That being said it's very specific and not exactly traditional law manipulation if that, so Power Modification seems like a fine compromise.
 
Moritzva said:
Leyline of the Void is a bit vague but we have to use our best judgement, even the flavor text directly states "oblivion". It's not much but I can't say I don't see the reasons for it.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking as well, its hints more towards it being void manip than BFR or something else.
Anticipation isn't Stat Amp, I agree, but I dunno what it would be as we don't really have a power for this sort of ultra-specific "I can react to anything" sort of power.
Click to expand...
I think it should just be noted in the speed category that they have a passive enchantment that lets them react and cast at instant speed.
Sanctity is very odd again, but it's down to interpretation. You could say it's a mix of power modification and law manipulation, as it is creating a rule preventing you from targeting The Planeswalker. I wouldn't say vector, since it's not changing any vectors, it's passively preventing you from aiming at them. That being said it's very specific and not exactly traditional law manipulation if that, so Power Modification seems like a fine compromise.
Click to expand...
Power Modification is the ability to alter, interfere with, or modify other powers. Ya, I definitely think it fits within the borders of that.
Elizhaa said:
Not, really; It is more or less feats or statements dependent.
Click to expand...
Confluctor said:
I would say wait for a bit
Click to expand...
Zaratthustra said:
Leyline of the Void - To me, not even possible seems plausible in this case as it's too vague. More opinions are welcomed regarding this. So I will ping the people who accepted and see their opinion regarding what I said above and for the bellow words. @Moritzva @Confluctor @Gonzalo

Leyline of Anticipation - Statistics Amplification doesn't work as this is temporary power, not a permanent one. This is not even a power, but just that the Player can cast the spells without channeling, or needing to wait for a cast like saying an incantation, waving hands etc. This should just be added in a feat section, explanation or mention in the Magic power parenthesis that thanks to the "Anticipation" the Player can cast the spells in a flash.

Leyline of Combustion - Works.

Leyline of Lifeforce - Works I guess as a specialized power that counters the ability of others to stop the Player from summoning.

Leyline of Lightning - Firstly, your link is Leyline of Lifeforce (which seems no one observed....). Secondly, it seems that it needs to pay mana before its used so hardly a passive. It says that the "damage is dealt before the creature spell resolves" but only if used. This is just lightning manipulation that could likely home the attack but nothing more.

Leyline of Punishment - Could work I guess.

Leyline of Sanctify - How is this Law Manipulation? This one is really vague about which power could work as it just says "You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)" . I think a Possible Vector Manipulation would fit better as it makes the target not "target-able".

Leyline of Singularity - I don't understand this one really well so please explain it.

Leyline of Vitality - works.
Click to expand...
What do you three think?
 
Alright on Power Modification.
ActuallySpaceMan said:
I think it should just be noted in the speed category that they have a passive enchantment that lets them react and cast at instant speed.
Click to expand...
It seems fine.
ActuallySpaceMan said:
That's what I was thinking as well, its hints more towards it being void manip than BFR or something else.
Click to expand...
I won't be against be it, from the context of the void in the series.
 
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