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The issue with the drilling hasn't been addressed and neither has the timeline vs in between stuff.
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Magic the Gathering: It's 1-A Time
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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- #122
Tbh nothing exactly says that the Timestream are regular time so...
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You can have a realm be rated as 1-A for being beyond time while contained within a timeline.
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- #124
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1-A timelines can exist, but the reasoning has to be consistent. Something can't be 1-A for being beyond time while being contained within time.
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- #126
And what exactly says that the Timestreams are normal time?
You're ignoring the question.
You're ignoring the question.
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Because they're just parallel timelines that can and have crossed into other times before. In addition the justification for it being 1-A ar Ether being timeless and viewing those timelines as not real, which doesn't work. Both definitions cannot be right.
In addition people can move through it by just building drill tunneling machines. So it being 1-A is also questionable in my view.
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That's not...what? Time streams arent parallel timelines, they're the sum total of space-time of an infinite number of multiverses
And where are you getting the idea that people can just physically move through them? That goes against every established law for how time streams work
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They are parallel timelines per your own words. Just not something that's Low 2-C.
The the timestreams, the In-between section. The multiverse invasion was all about that.
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They are not parallel timelines, timelines exist within the time streams as part of the multiverses contained within the time streams
Time streams are not in-between sections, they are what encompass the entirety of the infinite number of multiverses within an single time stream, with an infinite number of time streams existing
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But they're still parallel versions of that reality. Some time streams are identical to others with minor differences and others are radically different. But they're still based on the concept of time which doesn't work with this
| Still concentrating on maintaining a deep, relaxed breathing pattern, she sensed her physical presence on Regatha beginning to dissolve into flames as she slipped into the Blind Eternities. As she disappeared from her humble bedchamber into the hot blaze of a fiery chasm, she recognized the formless void that existed outside of time and space. |
I didn't say they were. I've been specifically talking about how the justification of the Blind Eternities does not line up with where the Time Streams are placed. It has to go: Planes -> Multiverse -> Time Stream -> Blind Eternities for the scaling. Currently, the scaling presented in the OP has it go Planes -> Multiverse -> Blind Eternities -> Time Stream which doesn't work logic wise with the provided quotes.
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Yes, the Blind Eternities are contained within the Time Streams
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Which is the issue. They can't both be beyond time and space and contained within both time and space.
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They're not contained within time and space, the blind Eternities are the spaces in between planes within a multiverse, time stream is just the name of the space which contains an infinite number of multiverses
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Which is my point. If they're contained within a Time Stream and are part of that system then I'm not seeing it as 1-A.
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The time stream itself is the thing that is 1-A
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- #137
Even if it's true, that's not why is 1-A lol.
It's because of whatever number of dimensions being put in it not filling it (though it'd be High 1-B otherwise iirc).
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I have no scans proving Timestreams contain the Blind Eternities or are not normal time. Instead of arguing it would be better to just show quotes that prove our statements.
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- #139
Well, not that it matters anyways.
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Why not?
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- #141
Because it's about the amount of dimensions or can contain lol
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I don't get it
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- #143
It transcending space time was never the reason.
It's about it being so large that no amount of higher dimensions can fill it.
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That's Low-1A and higher isn't it?
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- #145
No, 1-A.
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I said Low 1-A and higher.
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If the claim is still here (or people are still arguing under this basis)
This does not grant any high 1-B tier, it simply skips that tier and goes to 1-A
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- #148
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I assume this here is the scan that's supposed to make the multiverse 1-B? If so, I don't think anything here suggests that the "phantom dimensions" are what are being referred to as more than the character can count or know, no. The countlessness here is pretty blatantly referring to the images / impressions she is receiving, which are different places (A star-filled sky, the maw of a beast, a forest etcetera) not of other directions or whatever.
All-in-all, as far as dimensionality goes, MtG seems to peak out at Low 1-C or so, given the "Time and space are only two dimensions in all the panoply of what is," which personally I'd rate as indicating at least 6 dimensions, given the wording implying that the spacetime dimensions we are familiar don't really stand out among everything that exists. Hard to quantify it beyond that, though, so, I welcome more opinions.
Now, I'm not sure whether those extra dimensions are part of a single universe or of the multiverse in its entirety, so, yeah. That's for you guys to figure out.
With regards to the Blind Eternities: I don't think their transcendence over the multiverse is what we'd consider enough for a 1-A rating, no. 1-A would require them to above even dimensions that exist only abstractly/theoretically, rather than exclusively the dimensions that exist. So, yeah, they're probably around 1-C or so, taking the above into account.
I don't quite understand what makes the Time Streams above the Blind Eternities, but I guess I defer to whatever the actual knowledgeable people say here, on that matter.
Now, as for the powerstones: Is there anything suggesting that the worlds contained inside of them are actually infinitely lesser than the verse's normal setting? Instead of being, say, pocket dimensions contained inside of objects, as is pretty common in fiction. And furthermore even if they were actually a hierarchy, you'd have to prove that this hierarchy extends upwards from the baseline world, rather than only downwards (In which case it would be just a set of Tier 11 realms)
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For me, I think the word "dimensions" is probably more like elements/aspects. For instance, is spirituality another? Magic?
Even increased spatial dimensions would still fall under "space" as a dimension of all that is. So for me that statement isn't necessarily indicative of QS layers above a space time continuum unto itself.
Other than that I agree with everything else you said.
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Would it help to discuss Aethermages (mages that manipulate the Blind Etwrnities) being able to unravel the geometry of reality and using the Blind Eternities to create countless fractal dimensions?
Basically MtG is structured as:
- Planes/Universes
- Multiverse (infinite number of planes/universes)
- Blind Eternities (the "space" between planes/universes)
- infinite number of Multiverses
- Time Stream (the sum macrocosm of said infinite number of universes)
- Infinite number of time streams
- Ur-Dragon (encompasses all time streams within its wings)
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That's not necessarily the case. There could be dimensions that are neither temporal nor spatial. The mentions of "phantom dimensions" also seem to support that statement.
Unfortunately not.
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- #153
We had initially High 1-C as initial plan btw.
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Hecc
Also, in the case of Powerstones, they're kinda funky in that they are able to contain the sum total of entire planes within them, so while it's unlikely that it would make another plane higher dimensional by bringing a powerstones into it, it would scale to the overall cosmological structure for the amount of spatial dimensions that exist within a powerstone
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- #155
I mean, if PowerStones are described as 7D, why assuming they're 7 dimensions below the baseline reality?
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There could be, but we have such little information to go off of when it comes to that statement.
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What I mean is it would just make it so that a 7-D plane exists, it wouldnt mean that bringing that powerstone into another plane would equate to said plane being 8-D. The Blind Eternities would be 8-D upscaling from that 7-D plane
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This is the 7-D statement, I assume?:
It's hard to say if it really warrants anything because it seems to be just technobabble. The fact it seems to be talking about something like a mathematical proof and whatnot makes things a bit worse too. Something can be "n-dimensional" in a purely abstract sense that doesn't correspond to anything in reality. That comes up a lot in many fields of science.
That aside, so far the cosmology seems to go like (As a lowball, so, not taking into account the phantom dimension shit):
Planes (4-D) < Multiverse (5-D. Explicitly referred to as a higher infinity from which the lesser infinities of individual universes are cut off) < Blind Eternities (6-D) < Time Streams (7-D)
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Oh I see, you were just arguing them as being having independent 1-A justifications.
In that case the Timestreams would just be High 1-B then. Well, before Ultima's stuff was considered at least.
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Esix
Esix, Fractal Bloom is a fractal of the Quandrix College of Strixhaven University on Arcavios. Once, tasked with devising an infinite equation, a group of Quandrix students accidentally created Esix, a living theorem obsessed with infinity. Over the years, a few professors have attempted to...
mtg.fandom.com
Would this change anything? Note that this is a fractal, a living fragment of the Blind Eternities, and it is a sentient equation for mathematically calculating infinity
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