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Magic the Gathering: It's 1-A Time

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StrymULTRA said:
And what exactly says that the Timestreams are normal time?
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Because they're just parallel timelines that can and have crossed into other times before. In addition the justification for it being 1-A ar Ether being timeless and viewing those timelines as not real, which doesn't work. Both definitions cannot be right.

In addition people can move through it by just building drill tunneling machines. So it being 1-A is also questionable in my view.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Because they're just parallel timelines that can and have crossed into other times before. In addition the justification for it being 1-A ar Ether being timeless and viewing those timelines as not real, which doesn't work. Both definitions cannot be right.

In addition people can move through it by just building drill tunneling machines. So it being 1-A is also questionable in my view.
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That's not...what? Time streams arent parallel timelines, they're the sum total of space-time of an infinite number of multiverses

And where are you getting the idea that people can just physically move through them? That goes against every established law for how time streams work
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Time streams arent parallel timelines, they're the sum total of space-time of an infinite number of multiverses
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They are parallel timelines per your own words. Just not something that's Low 2-C.

WeeklyBattles said:
And where are you getting the idea that people can just physically move through them
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The the timestreams, the In-between section. The multiverse invasion was all about that.
 
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Qawsedf234 said:
They are parallel timelines per your own words. Just not something that's Low 2-C.

The the timestreams, the In-between section. The multiverse invasion was all about that.
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They are not parallel timelines, timelines exist within the time streams as part of the multiverses contained within the time streams

Time streams are not in-between sections, they are what encompass the entirety of the infinite number of multiverses within an single time stream, with an infinite number of time streams existing
 
WeeklyBattles said:
They are not parallel timelines, timelines exist within the time streams as part of the multiverses contained within the time streams
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But they're still parallel versions of that reality. Some time streams are identical to others with minor differences and others are radically different. But they're still based on the concept of time which doesn't work with this
Still concentrating on maintaining a deep, relaxed breathing pattern, she sensed her physical presence on Regatha beginning to dissolve into flames as she slipped into the Blind Eternities. As she disappeared from her humble bedchamber into the hot blaze of a fiery chasm, she recognized the formless void that existed outside of time and space.
The above cannot be true if The Blind Eternities are also within Time Streams, which is my point. Either they are in a Time Stream and they're not beyond space and time or they aren't in a Time Stream so you can't scale the latter over the former.
WeeklyBattles said:
Time streams are not in-between sections,
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I didn't say they were. I've been specifically talking about how the justification of the Blind Eternities does not line up with where the Time Streams are placed. It has to go: Planes -> Multiverse -> Time Stream -> Blind Eternities for the scaling. Currently, the scaling presented in the OP has it go Planes -> Multiverse -> Blind Eternities -> Time Stream which doesn't work logic wise with the provided quotes.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
But they're still parallel versions of that reality. Some time streams are identical to others with minor differences and others are radically different. But they're still based on the concept of time which doesn't work with this
Still concentrating on maintaining a deep, relaxed breathing pattern, she sensed her physical presence on Regatha beginning to dissolve into flames as she slipped into the Blind Eternities. As she disappeared from her humble bedchamber into the hot blaze of a fiery chasm, she recognized the formless void that existed outside of time and space.
The above cannot be true if The Blind Eternities are also within Time Streams, which is my point. Either they are in a Time Stream and they're not beyond space and time or they aren't in a Time Stream so you can't scale the latter over the former.

I didn't say they were. I've been specifically talking about how the justification of the Blind Eternities does not line up with where the Time Streams are placed. It has to go: Planes -> Multiverse -> Time Stream -> Blind Eternities for the scaling. Currently, the scaling presented in the OP has it go Planes -> Multiverse -> Blind Eternities -> Time Stream which doesn't work logic wise with the provided quotes.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Blind Eternities are contained within the Time Streams
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Which is the issue. They can't both be beyond time and space and contained within both time and space.
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They're not contained within time and space, the blind Eternities are the spaces in between planes within a multiverse, time stream is just the name of the space which contains an infinite number of multiverses
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Which is my point. If they're contained within a Time Stream and are part of that system then I'm not seeing it as 1-A.
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Even if it's true, that's not why is 1-A lol.

It's because of whatever number of dimensions being put in it not filling it (though it'd be High 1-B otherwise iirc).
 
I have no scans proving Timestreams contain the Blind Eternities or are not normal time. Instead of arguing it would be better to just show quotes that prove our statements.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The Blind Eternities simply are stated that they can't be filled due to them being beyond the concepts of direction, space etc, meaning that even infinite amount of dimensionality can't fill it.
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If the claim is still here (or people are still arguing under this basis)

This does not grant any high 1-B tier, it simply skips that tier and goes to 1-A
 
She would have screamed if she could have found her voice—if she could have identified the place within her being that a voice was supposed to come from. But she couldn't find her lips, nor her lungs, nor any other part of her body. All she knew were the multitudinous dimensions. They were no longer phantom, no longer variables in an equation. They were real. And there were so many.

Rashmi felt so small, and yet her essence had the sensation of enormity.

She must have hung there, suspended, overwhelmed by awe and wonder, for some length of time, but how long, she had no conception. Time was not.

And then she was moving. Or at least her surroundings were shifting. The sensation of movement was absent, but the cues were compelling. She was looking out at a cityscape, only none of the buildings looked familiar. The shapes, the colors, the architecture, it was all so curious. And then she was in a forest, or perhaps a jungle, thick with vines and wide-leafed plants that seemed to compete with each other for dominion. She glimpsed a massive rock cut into the shape of a diamond; it hung in the air, suspended as though gravity didn't apply. Then a wide open sky, filled only with deep purple clouds, and a mountain range capped in snow through which yellow flowers grew. The images—impressions really—were coming faster now. One blended into the next, quiet hearths, vast deserts, bustling marketplaces filled with unfamiliar people and wares, the maw of a beast, a star-filled sky. More than she could count, more than she could ever know.
Click to expand...

I assume this here is the scan that's supposed to make the multiverse 1-B? If so, I don't think anything here suggests that the "phantom dimensions" are what are being referred to as more than the character can count or know, no. The countlessness here is pretty blatantly referring to the images / impressions she is receiving, which are different places (A star-filled sky, the maw of a beast, a forest etcetera) not of other directions or whatever.

All-in-all, as far as dimensionality goes, MtG seems to peak out at Low 1-C or so, given the "Time and space are only two dimensions in all the panoply of what is," which personally I'd rate as indicating at least 6 dimensions, given the wording implying that the spacetime dimensions we are familiar don't really stand out among everything that exists. Hard to quantify it beyond that, though, so, I welcome more opinions.

Now, I'm not sure whether those extra dimensions are part of a single universe or of the multiverse in its entirety, so, yeah. That's for you guys to figure out.

With regards to the Blind Eternities: I don't think their transcendence over the multiverse is what we'd consider enough for a 1-A rating, no. 1-A would require them to above even dimensions that exist only abstractly/theoretically, rather than exclusively the dimensions that exist. So, yeah, they're probably around 1-C or so, taking the above into account.

I don't quite understand what makes the Time Streams above the Blind Eternities, but I guess I defer to whatever the actual knowledgeable people say here, on that matter.

Now, as for the powerstones: Is there anything suggesting that the worlds contained inside of them are actually infinitely lesser than the verse's normal setting? Instead of being, say, pocket dimensions contained inside of objects, as is pretty common in fiction. And furthermore even if they were actually a hierarchy, you'd have to prove that this hierarchy extends upwards from the baseline world, rather than only downwards (In which case it would be just a set of Tier 11 realms)
 
Ultima_Reality said:
MtG seems to peak out at Low 1-C or so, given the "Time and space are only two dimensions in all the panoply of what is," which personally I'd rate as indicating at least 6 dimensions, given the wording implying that the spacetime dimensions we are familiar don't really stand out among everything that exists. Hard to quantify it beyond that, though, so, I welcome more opinions.
Click to expand...
For me, I think the word "dimensions" is probably more like elements/aspects. For instance, is spirituality another? Magic?

Even increased spatial dimensions would still fall under "space" as a dimension of all that is. So for me that statement isn't necessarily indicative of QS layers above a space time continuum unto itself.

Other than that I agree with everything else you said.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
With regards to the Blind Eternities: I don't think their transcendence over the multiverse is what we'd consider enough for a 1-A rating, no. 1-A would require them to above even dimensions that exist only abstractly/theoretically, rather than exclusively the dimensions that exist. So, yeah, they're probably around 1-C or so, taking the above into account.
Click to expand...
Would it help to discuss Aethermages (mages that manipulate the Blind Etwrnities) being able to unravel the geometry of reality and using the Blind Eternities to create countless fractal dimensions?
Ultima_Reality said:
I don't quite understand what makes the Time Streams above the Blind Eternities, but I guess I defer to whatever the actual knowledgeable people say here, on that matter.
Click to expand...
Basically MtG is structured as:
  • Planes/Universes
  • Multiverse (infinite number of planes/universes)
  • Blind Eternities (the "space" between planes/universes)
  • infinite number of Multiverses
  • Time Stream (the sum macrocosm of said infinite number of universes)
  • Infinite number of time streams
  • Ur-Dragon (encompasses all time streams within its wings)
 
Deagonx said:
Even increased spatial dimensions would still fall under "space" as a dimension of all that is. So for me that statement isn't necessarily indicative of QS layers above a space time continuum unto itself.
Click to expand...
That's not necessarily the case. There could be dimensions that are neither temporal nor spatial. The mentions of "phantom dimensions" also seem to support that statement.

WeeklyBattles said:
Would it help to discuss Aethermages (mages that manipulate the Blind Etwrnities) being able to unravel the geometry of reality and using the Blind Eternities to create countless fractal dimensions?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately not.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Unfortunately not.
Click to expand...
Hecc

Also, in the case of Powerstones, they're kinda funky in that they are able to contain the sum total of entire planes within them, so while it's unlikely that it would make another plane higher dimensional by bringing a powerstones into it, it would scale to the overall cosmological structure for the amount of spatial dimensions that exist within a powerstone
 
I mean, if PowerStones are described as 7D, why assuming they're 7 dimensions below the baseline reality?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
That's not necessarily the case. There could be dimensions that are neither temporal nor spatial. The mentions of "phantom dimensions" also seem to support that statement.
Click to expand...
There could be, but we have such little information to go off of when it comes to that statement.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I mean, if PowerStones are described as 7D, why assuming they're 7 dimensions below the baseline reality?
Click to expand...
What I mean is it would just make it so that a 7-D plane exists, it wouldnt mean that bringing that powerstone into another plane would equate to said plane being 8-D. The Blind Eternities would be 8-D upscaling from that 7-D plane
 
StrymULTRA said:
I mean, if PowerStones are described as 7D, why assuming they're 7 dimensions below the baseline reality?
Click to expand...
This is the 7-D statement, I assume?:

Crix's enhanced, analytical mind had little difficulty making out a few of the simpler calculations of fate here and there, as well as a tangle of pipes and energy-filled tubes that were a perfect depiction of Niv-Mizzet's Seven-Dimensional Geometromancy Proof.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say if it really warrants anything because it seems to be just technobabble. The fact it seems to be talking about something like a mathematical proof and whatnot makes things a bit worse too. Something can be "n-dimensional" in a purely abstract sense that doesn't correspond to anything in reality. That comes up a lot in many fields of science.

That aside, so far the cosmology seems to go like (As a lowball, so, not taking into account the phantom dimension shit):

Planes (4-D) < Multiverse (5-D. Explicitly referred to as a higher infinity from which the lesser infinities of individual universes are cut off) < Blind Eternities (6-D) < Time Streams (7-D)
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I have no scans proving Timestreams contain the Blind Eternities or are not normal time. Instead of arguing it would be better to just show quotes that prove our statements.
Click to expand...
Oh I see, you were just arguing them as being having independent 1-A justifications.

In that case the Timestreams would just be High 1-B then. Well, before Ultima's stuff was considered at least.
 
mtg.fandom.com

Esix

Esix, Fractal Bloom is a fractal of the Quandrix College of Strixhaven University on Arcavios. Once, tasked with devising an infinite equation, a group of Quandrix students accidentally created Esix, a living theorem obsessed with infinity. Over the years, a few professors have attempted to...
mtg.fandom.com mtg.fandom.com

Would this change anything? Note that this is a fractal, a living fragment of the Blind Eternities, and it is a sentient equation for mathematically calculating infinity
 
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