Elaine, Michael, Lucifer, and the Presence Possible 1-C upgrade.

[LuciferX]

Honestly, Evidence seems pretty weak. Every scale caps at Low 1-C. You need to prove three infinite above 4d to reach 1-C.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Honestly, Evidence seems pretty weak. Every scale caps at Low 1-C. You need to prove three infinite above 4d to reach 1-C.

Which the beings in question that have been mentioned are.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the accepted conclusions here so far?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So what are the accepted conclusions here so far?

So far people seem to be fine with the City being 6D while as Deagon said he would maybe accept a single Vertigo Universe being Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Noted.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Okay. Noted.

I believe there are three people who agree. One Neutral. Counting Luciferx two who disagree(if Xearsey disagrees).

 

[Antvasima]

So which members think what here then?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So which members think what here then?

Deagonx - Seems to be fine with the suggestion of the upgrade.

Robo - accepted my tier suggestions

Georredannea - Agreed

Elizio - Neutral

No formal disagreements. They just questioned the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Deagonx - Seems to be fine with the suggestion of the upgrade.

Robo - accepted my tier suggestions

Georredannea - Agreed

Elizio - Neutral

No formal disagreements. They just questioned the thread.

Well, I would prefer input from more staff and knowledgeable members than Deagonx alone.

@Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeTwo @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excel616 @Immortalgodd @JohnCenaNation @Robo @VeryGoofyToddler @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Zensum @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @LordTracer

What do you think?

 

[LordTracer]

How many times do I have to say that I hate Tier 1 before I stop getting pinged for these threads-

 

[Excellence616]

Well, I would prefer input from more staff and knowledgeable members than Deagonx alone.

@Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeTwo @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excel616 @Immortalgodd @JohnCenaNation @Robo @VeryGoofyToddler @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Zensum @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @LordTracer

What do you think?

The upgrade looks okay. I agree.

 

[Antvasima]

How many times do I have to say that I hate Tier 1 before I stop getting pinged for these threads-

Okay. Sorry about that. I have a few thousand members to try to keep track of, so it is easy to forget.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral for now.

 

[Stefano4444]

I'm not that knowledgeable when It come to Tier 1 in general, i don't think i can be of any help here.

 

[Catzlaflame]

Well, I would prefer input from more staff and knowledgeable members than Deagonx alone.

@Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeTwo @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excel616 @Immortalgodd @JohnCenaNation @Robo @VeryGoofyToddler @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Zensum @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @LordTracer

What do you think?

I sorta agree i guess.

With this power, he can accomplish things only God can do such as remaking every part of Existence. (Lucifer Vol.1 #53)…………
God's name is written in every atom of Creation including the Silver City. (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) Every part of Creation is glued together by his name, atoms or substance is describing all parts. (Lucifer Vol.1 #56)

This is somewhat interesting. It establishes that Michale began replacing Yahweh as God, and would thus scale to him.
The thing is, Michale never fully became god because of the Yggdrasil/Fenris ordeal. In the end, it was Elaine who became god. The reason why I agreed though is because of the following statement that was not included in the thread:

(HOST): “Lucifer you must not do this, the Archion [Michale] is trying to save us all, to shore up creation before it falls apart
(LUCIFER): “I know, it might even work under different circumstances, but I looked over destiny’s shoulder and I read how this ends… ~Lucifer Issue 53

Lucifer confirms that Michale does have the power/ability to take on the role of God even tho he never actually did. Also, the OP did include this point here:

They inherit his power as great as his own. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37)

This would also scale Luci/Michale relative to Yahweh.

These points are what I, personally, would stand behind as proof of Michale and Lucifer being 1-C

As for the rest,

When God made the world he started with the host and starting with the Host he began with Michael and Lucifer. He made them to be his intermediaries to enact Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

What is this meant to prove?

Michaels's power was described as a “spark that expands forever, an ocean of power with no shore.” (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) This means Michael bears limitless powers enough to sustain a Low 1-C structure.

NLF…

Even without trying he easily broke part of the City (Lucifer Vol.1 #44)

That’s not QS tho.

The whole point of the City is for a home for the Host. The Host's purpose is for Michael and Lucifer to have a context for their action and to reflect on their actions. If they were ever needed it was because God intended that way. (Lucifer Vol.1 #39) Lucifer and Michael scale above the Host (Lucifer Vol.1 #40) and the City because even with those they were the best of his Creation. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

Still don’t see anything here that’s relevant.

The thread has LOTS of completely unnecessary, random information that is not actually needed to make their point.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

This is somewhat interesting. It establishes that Michale began replacing Yahweh as God, and would thus scale to him.
The thing is, Michale never fully became god because of the Yggdrasil/Fenris ordeal. In the end, it was Elaine who became god. The reason why I agreed though is because of the following statement that was not included in the thread:

To be God, you need to sit on the Throne in the Primum Mobile. He was renewing substance/atmos(everything) in Creation by level. He's technically renewing everything including the Silver City and the Host, it's his will to keep them all alive because the Demiurgic Power is the spark of life.

Lucifer confirms that Michale does have the power/ability to take on the role of God even tho he never actually did. Also, the OP did include this point here:

He does have the power because a Demiurge is essentially a second God.

This would also scale Luci/Michale relative to Yahweh.

With his ability in Creation making not necessarily power.

These points are what I, personally, would stand behind as proof of Michale and Lucifer being 1-C

I agree.

As for the rest,

What is this meant to prove?

I just added extra to emphasize other points.

NLF…

I thought it was important.

That’s not QS tho.

I was just saying his capable of destroying Low 1-C structure since his AP and DP are the same for Michael.

Still don’t see anything here that’s relevant.

This shows the scale past the Host and the City.

The thread has LOTS of completely unnecessary, random information that is not actually needed to make their point.

It was more complimentary than anything else.

 

[Robo432343]

a single Vertigo Universe being Low 2-C.

what about the universes in the void? the universes in the void would be Low 1-C for being greater than the universes in the mansion of silence, not low 2-c

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

what about the universes in the void? the universes in the void would be Low 1-C for being greater than the universes in the mansion of silence, not low 2-c

A single Universe within the Multiverse. Not “The Universe” as in Totality with how Vertigo’s words it.

The only way Creation can be Low 1-C is if we count the realm such as the Dreaming to be contained within Creation. This isn't a stretch but I don't know if that will roll with people here.

Also, the Mansions Universes and the Universes in the Void are the same. Each discarded Universe “persist and repeats” This means they were created the same way and meet the same fate. Each version of Creation in the Void is a repeat of another previous one since the beginning was shaped by Yahweh, it's his Creation being repeated with a different Creator.

The only difference is the Mansions contain the infinite Universe that is seen to be contained within mirrors. While the Void at the center of everything which is also just a portion that contains infinite Universes. My theory is that the Mansions is shaped from the Void and that portion is equivalent to the Mansions. However, the difference here is that the Mansions has set infinite Creation while the Void has infinite dying and recreating of Creation happening all at once because only distance separate their existence and not time.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, catzlaflame. You seemed to make sense above.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Thank you for helping out, catzlaflame. You seemed to make sense above.

Do we need more input?

 

[Deagonx]

I agree. Particularly -- and this is nothing personal against Goofy -- the superfluous information and poor communication of the main points has become of a bit of a problem with his CRTs. There is a lot of unneeded information and it was very difficult to figure out what the chain of logic was for an upgrade. For Catzlaflames's points:

This would also scale Luci/Michale relative to Yahweh.

These points are what I, personally, would stand behind as proof of Michale and Lucifer being 1-C

This makes sense to me as a reason to scale to Yahweh. So from that angle I think it's viable to upgrade Michael, Lucifer, and Elaine to 1-C.

 

[Antvasima]

This makes sense to me as a reason to scale to Yahweh. So from that angle I think it's viable to upgrade Michael, Lucifer, and Elaine to 1-C.

@Elizio33 @Firestorm808 @LuciferDC099 @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens

Is this fine with you?

 

[LuciferDC099]

Scaling Lucifer, Michael and Elaine to Yahweh makes sense to me. I agree with upgrades.

 

[Elizio33]

I agree with 1-C Elaine Belloc, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Demiurgos and Yahweh.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems fine to me as well then.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Okay. It seems fine to me as well then.

Can these proposals be applied now? If so, please write Vertigo's cosmology section easier to read.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33 @Deagonx

Are you willing to update our DC Comics Cosmology page a bit, and also change the relevant statistics afterwards, please?

 

[Antvasima]

Or is some knowledgeable staff member here willing to handle it?

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33 @Deagonx

Are you willing to update our DC Comics Cosmology page a bit, and also change the relevant statistics afterwards, please?

Or is some knowledgeable staff member here willing to handle it?

@Firestorm808 @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Whoever it is that's writing it. Start from the Universe then also include that the realm of the Endless as part of Creation. Make it like Matteis where there's a Material Multiverse being 2-A and Creation as a whole being 2-A or Low 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

Whoever it is that's writing it. Start from the Universe then also include that the realm of the Endless as part of Creation. Make it like Matteis where there's a Material Multiverse being 2-A and Creation as a whole being 2-A or Low 1-C.

toddler i think you should just do it

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

toddler i think you should just do it

Nah, I'm just a comicstorian providing the info.

 

[LuciferX]

What's the reason for 1-C exactly?

 

[Robo432343]

can we get rid of lucifers random unknown key

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

can we get rid of lucifers random unknown key

We can work it out because Lucifer being depowered happened a lot during the story.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So anyone agrees that Creation would be Low 1-C or are we keeping at 2-A? If so we may have to downgrade the Endless to 2-A, possibly Low 1-C, or we upgrade Creation because it also encompasses those realm which I believe is Low 1-C from the revision.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33 @Deagonx

Are you willing to update our DC Comics Cosmology page a bit, and also change the relevant statistics afterwards, please?

Or is some knowledgeable staff member here willing to handle it?

@Elizio33 @Deagonx @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Firestorm808

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Enough people already agreed to it we can close it given that no one has implemented any changes.

 

[Antvasima]

The revisions that have been accepted here need to be applied before we close this thread.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The revisions that have been accepted here need to be applied before we close this thread.

Ono, I know that I'm just saying. It's best if I can use my other thread which had these as well but if not then we can wait for the changes.