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Hi, since the the tiering system has been changed not too long ago. I decided to overlook the DC Cosmology blog page and wanted to revise the tiering and explanation on the blog. @Elizio33 is handling the Crisis Cosmology section of the blog. So I decided to handle J.M. DeMatteis and Vertigo since I previously did so in the old system but decided to reformat it to make it easier.
So the material plane is accepted as this:
Which the notion of something being a dream of something else is accepted to be 1-A under this revision with supporting context:
Before:
Essentially, this is a metaphysical plane nearest to God where the Soul turns into pure energy only looking toward God’s love. Their unconscious but like everything else are dreaming of the entire Cosmology below such as the material plane and their own conventional Heaven.
After:
Death appearing in Lucifer's Creation isn't due to her having influence there. She literally said she wanted to see what would happen and was dying to talk to Lucifer. This also is clear since the Basanos’s vision was impaired due to the Book of Souls from Destiny being a foreign object here and only native to the main Creation.
Also, if you didn't know all those Dreams we saw are within one Creation. There are just multiplicity viewpoints of the same concept in different reiterations of Creation, and not separate Creations.
So what can we do? This:
So remove the bolded part:
Dream should have two keys: Point of View | True Dream. As the story have explained Morpehus and by an extent Daniel Hall are just small fragments of a bigger whole. They are just one small aspect of a bigger, truer concept.
Yggdrasil is a realm that connects all worlds and realms. Its destruction would affect all things.
Disagree: @Deagonx
Neutral: @Theglassman12 @Elizio33 @Antvasima @Ultima_Reality
@Ultima_Reality @Antvasima @Firestorm808
Disagree: @Deagonx
Neutral: @Elizio33 @Theglassman12
Cosmology Blog:
DC Comics Cosmology
This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...
vsbattles.fandom.com
J.M. DeMatteis:
The Material Realms:
The first portion that needs to be changed is the tiering for every category.So the material plane is accepted as this:
Now, obviously, there's some fixing that needs to be done. J.M. DeMatteis fixates on the idea that Creation is nothing but a Dream dreamt by God. There are dreams within dreams on every level of existence and this notion is infinitely repeating.Tiering: There are infinite universes and parallel dimensions, each decision forms new universes all the time. All multiversal feats are 2-A.
Which the notion of something being a dream of something else is accepted to be 1-A under this revision with supporting context:
So with that being said we can concur a new explanation and a new rating. So for the material plane:Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.
Tiering: There are infinite universes and parallel dimensions, each decision forms new universes all the time. The material plane is just the debased level of Creation called the Gross Plane. Everything in Creation is a result of a dream in a dream. The material plane encompasses all the simplest levels driven by the five senses. Due to its relation to being just a dream in the higher planes, it would warrant a 1-A rating, and because there's limitless potential and possibility. Its hierarchical positing pivots a hierarchy of R>F transcendence thus the “+” modifier can be used. So any Multiversal feat of any degree affecting the material plane is 1-A and total destruction as 1-A+.
The Metaphysical Realms:
The metaphysical realms transcend the whole of the material plane. As some analogy puts the concept in these higher planes transcends that of the lower ones. Due to them being inaccessible by the Gross body and the Soul needed to move into the next stage of existence would warrant a transcendence tier that's meta in nature.Before:
Tiering: The higher planes of existence have "days" which transcend day and "places" which transcend place, each of them being truer and deeper than the Material World, giving 1 degree of infinity above Low 2-C, making Heaven and the Collective Unconscious Low 1-C.
Miscellaneous:
Now, in the story Green Lantern: Willworld. There's a concept that was reintroduced from the Doctor Fate series called the “Ocean of Dreams.”Essentially, this is a metaphysical plane nearest to God where the Soul turns into pure energy only looking toward God’s love. Their unconscious but like everything else are dreaming of the entire Cosmology below such as the material plane and their own conventional Heaven.
After:
Tiering: The higher planes of existence have "days" which transcend day and "places" which transcend place, each of them being truer and deeper then the Material World, giving them a meta-transcendence nature and a superior level of existence. This means any higher plane including Heaven, Hell, and the Collective Unconscious would be High 1-A. Since like the Material World, the Metaphysical planes are layered as each Heaven is simply a projection of the mind, and there are things beyond conventional Heaven where Souls turn into pure energy called the Ocean of Dreams or the Love-Sea.
Mahapralaya/Pralaya/Sea of Brahma:
Pralaya's previous description was this:Obviously, this has to change and here is the fix:Tiering: Mahapralaya/Pralaya is the Void of infinite nothingness that predate Creation and is the source from which all things emerged and will return, giving her 2 degrees of infinity above Low 2-C, making her Low 1-C.
Tiering: Mahapralaya/Pralaya is the Void of infinite nothingness that predates Creation and is the source from which all things emerged and will return, giving her High 1-A+ rating. She's the Cosmological apex representing the infinite unconscious of God making her the byproduct of what a Boundless being can produce.
The Divine Presence/The Smile/God:
This was the previous description of God:This will be changed to this:Tiering: The Divine Presence is 1-C, as it transcends all of Creation and Pralaya infinitely, holding them as mere parts of its dream.
Tiering: The Divine Presence is 0, as it transcends all of Creation and Pralaya infinitely, holding them as mere parts of its dream. God is non-dual as it exists beyond all intrinsic opposites, also as a changeless and eternal Void beyond all voids existing beyond the threshold of consciousness. Being the thing behind, beyond, within all things acting as an indivisible, immutable, and source for all of Creation.
Vertigo:
This one is interesting because I'm not only changing the tiering but also removing some untrue notions.The Presence’s Creation:
The current explanation is this:So, obviously, we can keep the Endless as part of the Presence’s Creation. Since the Dreaming is described as more “real than real”, which is accepted as 1-A as long as there's no real anti-feat. More importantly, the Dreaming scales to the City of Stars which is treated as “real above real.” In Sandman #2 it was explained Dream of the Endless and the Dreaming are one and with enough given dreams the whole of Creation changes. Thus all realms scale to the City of Stars which is a good candidate for 1-A.As the Presence's creation contains the domains of the Endless, as separate but encompassed extensions to the infinite timelines, all feats involving the entire structure are Low 1-C.
So we can change it to this:In general, such cases can be relatively straightforward, as in cosmologies where conventional reality is portrayed as "not really real," and there are superior, "more real" worlds beyond it.
As the Presence's creation contains the domains of the Endless, as separate but encompassed extensions of realms that exist within his creation. Also, the Presence domain contains infinite timelines, dimensions, and realms, the material world is often regarded as the debased level of Creation. All feats involving the entire structure are 1-A.
Heaven, Silver City, and Hell:
Before:After:The Silver City/Heaven and Hell are Low 1-C. The Silver City predates and transcends Creation, which has infinite timelines, and Hell is its dark reflection.
The Silver City/Heaven and Hell are 1-A. Realms such as these are described to be beyond physical measure as such concepts are deemed useless there. Heaven predates Creation and the Silver City, a part of Heaven, sees the Universe below it as glistens and glitters of stars and nebulae like that of a child’s toy. Each soul harbors millions of Heaven and the afterlife contains the likes of the Mansions of Silence.
The Endless:
Before:After:All Endless: Delirium, Despair, Desire, Destruction, Dream are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C. The Endless are the primal truths of the Presence's creation and oversees every aspect of it. Dream's oldest incarnation exists outside of space and time and is a part of the eldritch abominations that exists in space beneath space and space beyond space.
All Endless: Delirium, Despair, Desire, Destruction, Dream are 1-A. The Endless are the primal truths of the Presence's creation and oversees every aspect of it. Dream's oldest incarnation exists outside of space and time and is a part of the eldritch abominations that exists in space beneath space and space beyond space.
The Basanos:
Before:After:The Basanos are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C. As seen above, the Basanos are meant to mimic Destiny's book and the lenses through which all infinite possibilities of Creation are focused. They are a considerable threat to the likes of the Archangels and can harm Lucifer.
The Basanos are 1-A. As seen above, the Basanos are meant to mimic Destiny's book and the lenses through which all infinite possibilities of Creation are focused. They are a considerable threat to the likes of the Archangels and can harm Lucifer.
The Council of the First Circle:
Before:After:The Council of the First Circle are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C. They predate the Presence's creation and made the its laws and the rules which the Endless follow[210] and Glory and was unaffected when reality, The Endless and Destiny's Book was rewritten by the dreams and imaginations of a thousand dreamers.
Mother Night and Father Time:
Before:After:Night and Time are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C. They predate all versions of Creation that were changed by dreams, their interplay is what made all version of Creation possible, and they are the source of the reality changing power of dreams which can retroactively change Creation and creates gods, including Presence.
Night and Time are 1-A. They predate all versions of Creation that were changed by dreams, their interplay is what made all versions of Creation possible, and they are the source of the reality-changing power of dreams which can retroactively change Creation and create gods, including the Presence. Night is in a place of untime and unspace beyond all events horizon where she lacks any concepts: dreams, light, information. Time is the primal motion that pushed Creation into coming, as he gave Destiny his book, and sees all of Creation as one single continuum as he existed beyond the change of Creation before and after Morpheus fixed it.
Mansions of Silence:
Before:After:The Mansions of Silence are Low 1-C. It's far beyond Heaven which transcends the Presence's creation, although there are fragile structures.
The Mansions of Silence are 1-A. The realm beyond conventional Heaven and located in the eastern border in which the world and metaphysical plane meet called “Armeggdeon Plain.” This structure contains mirrors of illusions that were once Creations of the Presence and its multiplicity of infinity.
The Presence and the Archangels:
Before:The Presence/Yahweh is 1-C. He is the creator of Creation and all higher realms such as Heaven and Hell. He created all the Archangels and can easily destroy them and he defined every variable, the physical rules with his own will. Everything happens because he makes it happen.
After:The Archangels such as Michael and Lucifer are 1-C. They scale to Heaven which transcends the 2-A Creation. Lucifer is far more powerful than Dream of the Endless.[220] Space-time is an extension of the mind of Will which Lucifer embodies, and he destroyed Logos with a touch which is the first word which sung all of existence into being.[221] It was stated that Elaine should push the "absence of space" of the Void in order create a new cosmos which should mean that she can affect the Void. Elaine with Demiurgic powers scales to Michael and Michael scales to Lucifer.
- The Presence/Yahweh is 1-A. He is the creator of Creation and all higher realms such as Heaven and Hell. He created all the Archangels and can easily destroy them and he defined every variable, the physical rules with his own will. Everything happens because he makes it happen. There's a rub since it was revealed that everything shown through what we see of Yahweh, is simply a manifestation of an aspect from a truer being. This is why Yahweh told Lucifer in an analogy that all things even the Void are part of his greater being and goes on to describe himself as “infinite and eternal” the same description used by Lucifer to describe the “Void.” Dreams gave faith and substances to this changeless and formless being, that permeates all things in the Void as simply a piece of him even when Lucifer metaphorically jumps across the Universe into the Void to create a Creation, the Presence will still work there. So while, Yahweh is 1-A, due to the possibility of just being a simple emanation of a greater being that scales to the Void and possible surpasses it will warrant two layers into 1-A for surpassing Creation and the Archangels.
The Demiurgic Archangels such as Michael and Lucifer are 1-A. They scale to Heaven which transcends the 1-A material Creation. Lucifer is far more powerful than Dream of the Endless.[205]Space-time is an extension of the mind of Will which Lucifer embodies, and he destroyed Logos with a touch which is the first word which sung all of existence into being.[206] It was stated that Elaine should push the "absence of space" of the Void in order create a new cosmos which should mean that she can affect the Void. Elaine with Demiurgic powers scales to Michael and Michael scales to Lucifer.
The Void:
Before:After:The Void is 1-C as it's beyond space-time and the hierarchy of dimensions and transcends it completely.
The Void is 1-A as it is beyond space-time and the hierarchy of dimensions and transcends it completely. Encompassing and surpassing the totality of Creation, Night, Time, and all Creation not filling even a portion of its infinity as they amount to 0 to a portion they can fill up. Completely transcends levels of Creation and all the ones as insignificant things that fill and teem the Void with life.
Removal:
True extent of the Endless:
This was what was proposed in the section for the Endless and their apparent “true extent:”It was displayed more than once that the Endless are explicitly not bound to one Creation. When we see Dream, or Destiny, or Death, we are only looking at one point of view.[209] So, any Creations we have seen in the Void share a similar nature to the Endless, which is basically seen when all of Dream aspects were brought together. The Endless likely exists in all of these versions of Creation. Death was the only Endless supposed to last longer than the current version of Creation.
There’s some problem with these absurd claims. The Endless is just the side-effect of the approach of creation-making. It has never been stated that the Endless exists outside the main Creation. This is evidently made clear because Night and Time permeate all versions of the same Creation, not all Creations.The Endless are the primal truths of the universe, so the universe and the Endless having basically the same nature is not really that farfetched. What we were shown in the Void when there were many Lucifer is basically this.[211]
Now, if the Council of the First Circle set down the rules for everything when all was still Void, and Dream (presumably his siblings as well) was present, that means that the true extent of the Endless goes far beyond one single Creation, it is inherent to all versions of Creation. And that is supported by Death appearing in Lucifer's completely separate Creation.
Death appearing in Lucifer's Creation isn't due to her having influence there. She literally said she wanted to see what would happen and was dying to talk to Lucifer. This also is clear since the Basanos’s vision was impaired due to the Book of Souls from Destiny being a foreign object here and only native to the main Creation.
Also, if you didn't know all those Dreams we saw are within one Creation. There are just multiplicity viewpoints of the same concept in different reiterations of Creation, and not separate Creations.
So what can we do? This:
- Remove the true extent from the Endless except for Dream(I’ll explain later) and remove the idea Night and Time permeates all Creations in the Void as opposed to just all versions of the same Creation.
So remove the bolded part:
It's important to note that are three Creations in the Void, those of the Presence, Lucifer and Elaine Belloc,[179] which were later combined by Elaine when she replaced the Presence. There is only one Creation present and after it ends, a new "version" will rise therefore any other Creations seen in the Void are basically just versions of the same Creation as time has no real meaning in the Void, they all exist simultaneously, as seen when Lucifer flew into the Void with different versions of himself. This is why Lucifer said that in the Void it does not matter whether the Silk Man comes from a Creation before or after that of the Presence.
Addition:
Jin En Mok species for the Cosmology blog. Also, change Cestis rating from Low 1-C, possibly 1-C to just 1-A.Dream should have two keys: Point of View | True Dream. As the story have explained Morpehus and by an extent Daniel Hall are just small fragments of a bigger whole. They are just one small aspect of a bigger, truer concept.
Yggdrasil is a realm that connects all worlds and realms. Its destruction would affect all things.
DeMatteis:
Agree: @Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X @Firestorm808Disagree: @Deagonx
Neutral: @Theglassman12 @Elizio33 @Antvasima @Ultima_Reality
Vertigo:
Agree: @Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X@Ultima_Reality @Antvasima @Firestorm808
Disagree: @Deagonx
Neutral: @Elizio33 @Theglassman12
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