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Duel of the Deuteragonists Vol. 2: Moss vs Sauce

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Wait wait wait nevermind. New Era Sasuke is fine. I forgot that he can't access Majestic Attire Susano'o by himself. Sorry
 
Sasuke: 177.48 Exatons, far higher with Susano'o

Zoro: 33.6 Exatons, 67.2 Exatons with Busōshoku Haki, 268.8 Exatons with Haōshoku Infusion, Enma Unleashed, or Kutoryu, far higher with En-Ō Santoryu
 
Anyways. In terms of speed, Zoro has the advantage of Iai attacks having blitz amps, so Sasuke will have to deal with that plus his Dura Neg thanks to Goken. Zoro is also almost 10x faster than Sasuke when unequalized, so Zoro can win via blitzing since he is the faster character normally.

In terms of skill (and I'm definitely getting shit for this) Zoro eclipses Sasuke by a pretty huge margin, especially in terms of swordsmanship. This is further boosted by Kenbun giving him precog that will allow him to read his mind.

Sasuke easily takes versatility however, since Zoro isn't really as versed in abilities due to him being a Haki only dude.

As for Genjutsu, it won't be a problem since Zoro has 7 Haki layers now, so he'll be able to resist its effects, meaning Sasuke will have to actually fight Zoro.

Endurance is going to Zoro since his pain tolerance is downright absurd. Him enduring Luffy's pain and scarring Kaido afrer breaking 30 bones is nothing to scoff at.

Sasuke probably has better stamina since En-ō Santoryū drains Haki, pretty quickly, although, Zoro has better control over it now that he mastered KoH and can use it alongside Hao infusion. But regardless Sasuke takes it.

Honestly, I'm leaning towards Zoro since he can close the distance and slice Sasuke's Katon with Flame Rend and once he gets in, Sasuke getting the ride of a lifetime.
 
Before I even comment on the match since I feel like this ends up being a mess of a topic between every Naruto vs OP match on Wiki that involves hax.

Haki being verse equalized to counter things like Chakra-Based GJ or Rinnegan BFR because of their interactions with Devil Fruits does not work at all.

For one, on the Haki Page, all that is accepted is that Haki can nullify or negate the abilities of Devil Fruits via four statements of that being proven to be the case.

given that this is portrayed by the story as a universal rule for how strong Haki can specifically interact this way with all Devil Fruits(although the exact effect Haki has on an individual Devil Fruit may vary) this effect should be treated as a weakness of Devil Fruits rather than a power that Haki can translate into negating the effects of any power in any verse just because a Devil Fruit exists with a name similar to said power.

Luckily that's where SBA helps out One Piece a bit since not many power systems exist that are 1 to 1 with how Haki and Devil Fruits interact with each other.

Verse Equalization states that:

"Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen."

"However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization."

"Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself."

So for two verses' abilities to be equalized, they have to be similar in conception, not possess any weaknesses, caveats, or limitations that would contradict them being similar, and mechanically similar.

Devil Fruits are abilities that come from the alteration of genetics via supernatural fruits with a stated weakness to powerful Buso Haki.

Chakra-based abilities are energy-based via transmuted life force incorporating the esoteric aspects of the mind, body, and soul with no such weakness.

they aren't comparable conceptually, mechanically, or how the story presents their weaknesses.

Haki and Chakra have far more in common than Chakra and Devil Fruits and even then its small similarities (spiritual energies incorporating aspects of life force.)

but yeah until it's accepted in a CRT that Haki negates all abilities rather than just DF abilities, we go off of what is currently accepted.

So it's not being used to negate the abilities of a power system that isn't already inherently similar to DFs.

I'll comment on the match later.
 
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I find the notion that Zoro has better swordsmanship than Sasuke to be hilarious... I disagree.

Zoro was traditionally trained and in the TBV Flashbacks, we see Sasuke training Boruto in a traditional way. So off bat, the foundation for both Sasuke and Zoro’s skill level is traditional training. You literally cannot judge a difference in skill above a foundational level across verses unless one or both verses make a point to emphasize skill, or lack thereof.

Zoro using 3 swords is irrelevant. Killer Bee used 7 and his fighting style is unlike anything is One Piece, being frenzied and unpredictable. A less experienced and weaker Sasuke held his own for several exchanges before being overwhelmed. Zoro certainly does not take swordsmanship.

I hold the opinion that in a battle of precog, nothing either person does “should” surprise the other. I think we all can agree that both Sasuke and Zoro will know each other’s moves several steps ahead before they make them, no matter whom see’s further into the future.

I also think the OP is sleeping on Shunshin amps and Chidori Speed Amps that Sasuke has here. Speed Equal by itself w/o specifics refers to Base-to-base. Zoro isn’t blitzing here.

I have Sasuke taking it via versatility. I think his arsenal is perfect against the likes of Zoro.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
I find the notion that Zoro has better swordsmanship than Sasuke to be hilarious... I disagree.

Zoro was traditionally trained and in the TBV Flashbacks, we see Sasuke training Boruto in a traditional way. So off bat, the foundation for both Sasuke and Zoro’s skill level is traditional training. You literally cannot judge a difference in skill above a foundational level across verses unless one or both verses make a point to emphasize skill, or lack thereof.

Zoro using 3 swords is irrelevant. Killer Bee used 7 and his fighting style is unlike anything is One Piece, being frenzied and unpredictable. A less experienced and weaker Sasuke held his own for several exchanges before being overwhelmed. Zoro certainly does not take swordsmanship.

I hold the opinion that in a battle of precog, nothing either person does “should” surprise the other. I think we all can agree that both Sasuke and Zoro will know each other’s moves several steps ahead before they make them, no matter whom see’s further into the future.
Click to expand...
I know we don't agree on everything in verse but you cooked here.

put something I've been saying for a hot minute so well.
 
Bernkastelll said:
8 sword style is nothing to zoro
Click to expand...
if that was all you got out of that you're missing the point,

(also Sasuke holding his own against someone stronger and faster than him who was also skilled at an unorthodox style that juggles 8 swords between his hands and legs > Zoro obliterating an 8 swords style using Octopus fishman that is fodder compared to him.)

Neo is saying:
  • both can fight people with multiple swords.
  • both have had traditional and nontraditional training.
  • both have defeated skilled swordsmen and weapon users.
  • both are considered highly skilled swordsman in their verse.
defining who is more skilled would require being semantical with their feats as neither has displayed something so far out of the other's league that they are definitively better.
 
Bernkastelll said:
8 sword style is nothing to zoro
Click to expand...

Said user is still not comparable to Killer Bee in regard to fighting style (Primarily bc he didn’t get the chance to show his stuff). Ntm Zoro didn’t actually have a “fight” here. He just blitzed and one shot the weaker opponent. It wouldn’t matter if it was a 100 Swords user in this scenario.
 
Godernet said:
if that was all you got out of that you're missing the point,

(also Sasuke holding his own against someone stronger and faster than him who was also skilled at an unorthodox style that juggles 8 swords between his hands and legs > Zoro obliterating an 8 swords style using Octopus fishman that is fodder compared to him.)

Neo is saying:
  • both can fight people with multiple swords.
  • both have had traditional and nontraditional training.
  • both have defeated skilled swordsmen and weapon users.
  • both are considered highly skilled swordsman in their verse.
defining who is more skilled would require being semantical with their feats as neither has displayed something so far out of the other's league that they are definitively better.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this^
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Zoro was traditionally trained and in the TBV Flashbacks, we see Sasuke training Boruto in a traditional way. So off bat, the foundation for both Sasuke and Zoro’s skill level is traditional training. You literally cannot judge a difference in skill above a foundational level across verses unless one or both verses make a point to emphasize skill, or lack thereof.

Zoro using 3 swords is irrelevant. Killer Bee used 7 and his fighting style is unlike anything is One Piece, being frenzied and unpredictable. A less experienced and weaker Sasuke held his own for several exchanges before being overwhelmed. Zoro certainly does not take swordsmanship.
Click to expand...
To add to this, Sasuke tends to combine his swordsmanship with chidori amps and teleportation. Unless I'm missing something Zoros profile doesn't say he resists electricity based paralysis which is something that Sasuke will definitely try to hit him with even if Zoro blocks the attack.

To make matters worse, as someone else pointed out, Sasuke can disarm Zoro with ameno. But that wouldn't even be the worst thing. Sasuke could actually hit Zoro with a chidori by doing so while allowing himself to attack Zoro with his own sword
main-qimg-d6189e423a2d2e7b7dbcac426367ae8e-lq

So Sasuke should have a pretty notable advantage
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
Interesting . Quick question what's stopping Sasuke from disarming zoro with amenotajikara
Click to expand...
Zoro's Haki resists teleportation scaling above Law's Haki, and Shambles is basically the same thing. Big Mom was able to resist Law's DF with the amount of layers Zoro has currently. So them swords are staying if Sasuke were to replace them with a rock
 
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NeoKingOfLight said:
Zoro was traditionally trained and in the TBV Flashbacks, we see Sasuke training Boruto in a traditional way. So off bat, the foundation for both Sasuke and Zoro’s skill level is traditional training. You literally cannot judge a difference in skill above a foundational level across verses unless one or both verses make a point to emphasize skill, or lack thereof.
Click to expand...
Zoro had reached the very pinnacle of swordsmanship in One Piece, there's a reason why he's an Extraordinary Genius in combat. Goken allows one to cut anything strength cannot alone via utilizing the right angles, speed, and power, and can predict trajectories of attacks before they happen. He created three sword style as a child, and was able to contend with Hachi, a 6 armed swordsman who was stated to have surpassed all of humanity in swordsmanship. And Zoro beat him without his own swords. This was pre-timeskip btw. Mind you that their limbs have "brains" and can attack instinctively. Hyozoru, an 8 armed swordsman who considers Hachi pathetic wasn't even considered a threat to him. Sasuke is nowhere close to Zoro's swordsmanship.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Zoro using 3 swords is irrelevant. Killer Bee used 7 and his fighting style is unlike anything is One Piece, being frenzied and unpredictable. A less experienced and weaker Sasuke held his own for several exchanges before being overwhelmed. Zoro certainly does not take swordsmanship.
Click to expand...
He still got overwhelmed by Bee, and as mentioned above, Hyozoru's limbs move instinctively in unpredictable patterns and he was considered more skilled than Hachi. Sasuke's Sharingan could barely keep up with him. Zoro utterly skillstomps Bee that it's not even funny.
NeoKingOfLight said:
I hold the opinion that in a battle of precog, nothing either person does “should” surprise the other. I think we all can agree that both Sasuke and Zoro will know each other’s moves several steps ahead before they make them, no matter whom see’s further into the future.
Click to expand...
Zoro's is better because Kenbunshoku Haki is superior to the Sharingan via being able to read emotions and the very minds of the opponent, as well as seeing into the future. He also has Goken which allows for further predictions, so Sasuke's isn't a whole lot better.
NeoKingOfLight said:
I also think the OP is sleeping on Shunshin amps and Chidori Speed Amps that Sasuke has here. Speed Equal by itself w/o specifics refers to Base-to-base. Zoro isn’t blitzing here.
Click to expand...
Zoro's amps are capable of blitzing people beyond their reaction and their body's own movement, and he is able to blitz Kenbun users, people who can literally see the future. Sasuke can and will get blitzed.
NeoKingOfLight said:
I have Sasuke taking it via versatility. I think his arsenal is perfect against the likes of Zoro.
Click to expand...
Which Haki resists a lot of.
 
Reading emotions isn't that relevant here imo both are bloolusted. As for sharingan vs pre advanced observation haki I really don't see a gap between the two when it comes to precog/analytical prediction. They go about it different ways but the end result is they know exactly what their opponent is gonna do. 3 tomoe sharingan isn't a guess or prediction it quite literally gives you a play by play of what's coming. So that along with body flicker, rinnegan teleportation, substitution jutsu etc leads me to believe sasuke isn't getting blitzed

Preta path absorption should deal with all zoros long and mid range attacks. Even if sasuke can't teleport zoro himself he could still teleport his sword into zoro, teleport himself or his attacks closer to zoro etc. He also has get off me tools if zoro is such as chidori stream, almighty push, sussano, flame control etc

Idc for skill arguments neither of them are gonna make the other look like a noob.
 
ReaperAndBlues said:
Zoro had reached the very pinnacle of swordsmanship in One Piece, there's a reason why he's an Extraordinary Genius in combat. Goken allows one to cut anything strength cannot alone via utilizing the right angles, speed, and power, and can predict trajectories of attacks before they happen. He created three sword style as a child, and was able to contend with Hachi, a 6 armed swordsman who was stated to have surpassed all of humanity in swordsmanship. And Zoro beat him without his own swords. This was pre-timeskip btw. Mind you that their limbs have "brains" and can attack instinctively. Hyozoru, an 8 armed swordsman who considers Hachi pathetic wasn't even considered a threat to him. Sasuke is nowhere close to Zoro's swordsmanship.

He still got overwhelmed by Bee, and as mentioned above, Hyozoru's limbs move instinctively in unpredictable patterns and he was considered more skilled than Hachi. Sasuke's Sharingan could barely keep up with him. Zoro utterly skillstomps Bee that it's not even funny.

Zoro's is better because Kenbunshoku Haki is superior to the Sharingan via being able to read emotions and the very minds of the opponent, as well as seeing into the future. He also has Goken which allows for further predictions, so Sasuke's isn't a whole lot better.

Zoro's amps are capable of blitzing people beyond their reaction and their body's own movement, and he is able to blitz Kenbun users, people who can literally see the future. Sasuke can and will get blitzed.

Which Haki resists a lot of.
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Ok bruh. I’m not going to argue with you or attempt to change your mind, which is already made up. I disagree with you on almost everything, including the points you’re “trying” to make in this response, and you disagree with my points.

You think Zoro is better in key areas and wins here, knock yourself out. I stand by what I said, so you can just add me to whichever category you have for Sasuke winning and debate someone else on the points you’ve already made up your mind about.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Ok bruh. I’m not going to argue with you or attempt to change your mind, which is already made up. I disagree with you on almost everything, including the points you’re “trying” to make in this response, and you disagree with my points.

You think Zoro is better in key areas and wins here, knock yourself out. I stand by what I said, so you can just add me to whichever category you have for Sasuke winning and debate someone else on the points you’ve already made up your mind about.
Click to expand...
Then why respond? You have nothing to provide to the argument
 
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