Duel of the Deuteragonists Vol. 2: Moss vs Sauce

[Godernet]

the page doesn't say only devil fruits and has a non devil fruit ability as a resistance

it does, we don't use things not accepted on profiles.

and again heat and electricity aren't hax in the conventional sense.

people w/o haki have heat resistance in OP

people w/o Haki have lightning resistance in OP

Not needed.

absolutely needed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

why is the assumption the Haki now transcends all powers outside of the verse regardless of mechanics when the only other powers that exist are tech, and elemental stuff like heat and electricity, which isnt even treated the same way as normal hax on site?

Regardless of mechanics is simply not the case

If haki negates a devil fruit ability that specifically enhances ones regeneration speed, it won't be able to negate ones normal biological regeration speeds

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

it does, we don't use things not accepted on profiles.

and again heat and electricity aren't hax in the conventional sense.

people w/o haki have heat resistance in OP

people w/o Haki have lightning resistance in OP

Difference is haki is literally stated to resist heat from a non devil fruit...

Which has nothing to do if people can resist something without haki

 

[Godernet]

Regardless of mechanics is simply not the case

If haki negates a devil fruit ability that's naturally enhanced regeneration, it won't be able to negate ones normal biological regeration speeds

so what you're telling me is that Haki doesnt not in fact transcend all.

 

[Daoist_Pepe]

Resisting Power null and absorption of Seastone via Haoshoku

Haoshoku Haki users resisted the draining affects of Seastone via Haki.

Chapter? Because I am looking at the Haoshoku section of Haki and there is no such thing as resistance to power null.

 

[Godernet]

Difference is haki is literally stated to resist heat from a non devil fruit...

Which has nothing to do if people can resist something without haki

again temperature isn't conventional hax

Haki resisting heat due to its nature of being able to be used as physical armor against attacks doesn't mean it can block esoteric hax.

 

[Kachon123]

Chapter? Because I am looking at the Haoshoku section of Haki and there is no such thing as resistance to power null.

Here

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Luffy resisting Don Chinjao's electricity

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Expert Hasshoken user (Particularly with the use of his head), Vibration Manipulation and Durability Negation (Can use the Happo Navy's special technique utilizing vibrations to harm the enemy, which can bypass armor and shields to harm their opponents, and can also send them inside the bodies of others), Haki (Intermediate Haoshoku, Kenbunshoku, Intermediate Busoshoku), Large Size (Type 0, 5.20m)

???

I am not interested in the debate, but what electricity has Chinjao?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Chinjao as well resisting his own electricity via Haki.

I don’t remember the in’s and out’s of Chinjao’s abilities in detail, but he doesn’t have Electricity Abilities iirc.

The “sparks” from him Clashing with Garp or Luffy is a clash of Conqueror’s Haki, which isn’t real electricity, nor is it something that affects them as if it were electricity.

Haoshoku Haki users resisted the draining affects of Seastone via Haki.

Is that actually stated verbatim or are you guys arbitrarily just stating it?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

so what you're telling me is that Haki doesnt not in fact transcend all.

No... Just doesn't have actually showings or proof transcending that specific thing

A statement can be valid and not be implemented to the profiles because of it not being specified

Haki blocking and combating devil fruit abilities is literally stated which is how it's on the haki page

This is how all abilities work across the site... Soul based burning won't be resisted by normal heat resistance

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Here

Y’all are playing extremely fast and loose here with these statements…

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Expert Hasshoken user (Particularly with the use of his head), Vibration Manipulation and Durability Negation (Can use the Happo Navy's special technique utilizing vibrations to harm the enemy, which can bypass armor and shields to harm their opponents, and can also send them inside the bodies of others), Haki (Intermediate Haoshoku, Kenbunshoku, Intermediate Busoshoku), Large Size (Type 0, 5.20m)

???

I am not interested in the debate, but what electricity has Chinjao?

it's luffy's electricity but chinjoa also has it via Haki's electricity

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

it's luffy's electricity but chinjoa also has it via Haki's electricity

No, it’s not electricity. Oda uses the visage of Electricity for Conqeror’s Haki. The Black Coloring became dominant after these arcs.

 

[Testarossa002]

Sasuke's speed amps are pretty shit.

No they're not
There's shushin which is FTE
Then there's Chidori which is a blitz tier to Shunshin
Sasuke uses both together on top of enhancing his speed with raiton
All these excluding his perception amp via his dojutsu which allows him to react AND counterattack against those who are superior to the speeds above
He's not getting blitzed by anything here

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No, it’s not electricity. Oda uses the visage of Electricity for Conqeror’s Haki. The Black Coloring became dominant after these arcs.

There are literally lightning sound effects and affects the environment like lightning does... They aren't only visually effects

There are different colored lightnings, some are blue (which inverse usually represents electro), some are yellow (Normally what lightning looks like) and some black

And it's shown not only con haki users are able to make lightning clashes if I remember correctly like Sabo

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

There are literally lightning sound effects... They aren't only visually effects

There are different colored lightnings

The SFX doesn’t matter here. We ARE TOLD what it is. And they are AREN’T “affected” by it because the lightnings (Which isn’t even electricity) isn’t attacking them. It’s a superficial imaging of CH.

Nobody is being electrocuted from it. Not the Crowed, not Luffy/Chinjao, not Greenbull, etc.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No, it’s not electricity. Oda uses the visage of Electricity for Conqeror’s Haki. The Black Coloring became dominant after these arcs.

Also in luffy's case, he calls his electricity attacks "Thor"

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The SFX doesn’t matter here. We ARE TOLD what it is. And they are AREN’T “affected” by it because the lightnings (Which isn’t even electricity) isn’t attacking them. It’s a superficial imaging of CH.

Nobody is being electrocuted from it. Not the Crowed, not Luffy/Chinjao, not Greenbull, etc.

the water is turning to vapor

They aren't being electrocuted because haki resists it

The crowd also did not touch the lightning

This isn't a con haki clash yet produced lightning...

 

[Godernet]

regardless of the electricity and heat stuff,

Haki functions as armor, not just a hax-deterrent

temperature manip and elemental manip in general aren't treated the same as conventional hax anyway.

you can't have a layered fire or layered lightning.

They're AP and Dura neg-based abilities (depending on your physiology), not an esoteric power.

Haki being able to resist heat, cold, lightning, or slashes due to its nature as armor doesn't mean Haki now resists all abilities in every verse.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

regardless of the electricity and heat stuff,

Haki functions as armor, not just hax-deterrent

temperature manip and elemental manip in general aren't treated the same as conventional hax anyway

you can't have a layered fire or layered lightning, they're AP and Dura Neg-based abilities (depending on your physiology) not an esoteric power.

Haki being able to resist heat, cold, lightning, or slashes due to its nature as armor doesn't mean Haki now resists all abilities in every verse.

Like... Since when having anyone said haki resists all abilities in every verse..?

Haki resists the abilities shown... Which would be those things

Haki solidifying and interacting with intangabilty of pure elements from non devil fruits is also a thing

Your acting like devil fruit abilities from the devil fruits aren't real abilities like the rest of the abilities in the verse. There are no difference to their functions the same way the lightning from chakra functions...

 

[Godernet]

Like... Since when having anyone said haki resists all abilities in every verse..?

That's how yall have treated it in the past and were just arguing earlier in the thread.

Haki solidifying and interacting with intangabilty of pure elements from non devil fruits is also a thing

So we're just lying now?

 

[Kachon123]

So we're just lying now?

Lmao what? Luffy was physically interacting with Prometheus. He just couldn't hurt him because he does't have a true body like a Logia user would.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So we're just lying now?

he's interacting with it still

I specifically didn't show that because you would've ignored what I said and talked abput that

he's not doing damage to the "soul" because there's no true body under that fire only a soul... The fire itself is being hit and interacted with, solidifying the element

 

[Godernet]

Lmao what? Luffy was physically interacting with Prometheus. He just couldn't hurt him because he does't have a true body like a Logia user would.

anyone with FTL combat speed should be able to physically move around fire with punches.

that's not hax.

also, he didn't say physically interact, he said solidify and interact with the intangibility of pure elements

which is untrue.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

anyone who's FTL should be able to physically move around fire with punches.

also, he didn't say physically interact, he said solidify and interact with the intangible of pure elements which is untrue.

hit sound effects both in the anime and manga

And is literally shown a hit effect when hit... The punches aren't going through him like this, it's making impacts

 

[Kachon123]

anyone who's FTL should be able to physically move around fire with punches.

also, he didn't say physically interact, he said solidify and interact with the intangible of pure elements which is untrue.

I can't tell if you're joking. Luffy wasn't "moving around fire." He was literally punching Prometheus. We can see impact shockwaves and indents on the surface of Prometheus' body. Prometheus was also literally squinting because the fists were hitting around his eyes.

 

[Testarossa002]

so since Haki isn't negating GJ or Amenotejikara

Sasuke's wincons are:

• Beating Zoro early on due to AP gap
• GJ (Basic or at worse case scenario Izanami)
• BFR via Amenotejikara
• Soul Rip
• Sealing via CT
• Death Manip via KOH (albeit Adult Sauce probably won't try this)
• Outlasting En-O Zoro if it gets to that point.

Zoro's wincons are:

• Beating Sasuke with AP in stronger forms (via Adv Hao and En-O Santoryu)
• LS (Not that Zoro usually chooses to do that over using his sword styles)

Sasuke's wincons require glances to get off for the most part while Zoro's requires his strongest form to oneshot Sasuke before overtaxing his maximum Haki output via Enma makes him drop.

Sasuke has shown he can contend and evade people much stronger than him and Zoro via Kaguya, Jigen, and Isshiki through use of illusions, teleportation, substitution, or just good evasion via sharingan.

Both do have valid forms of knowing what the other will do before they even try it.t.

But if Sasuke does take any kind of incapacitating damage he can use Izanagi as a last resort to negate the damage and kill Zoro with the entire minute of being able to ignore injury or death.

Sasuke should handily take this.

Sauce fra

 

[Kachon123]

Law literally states that:

過剰な覇気に”能力”は通じねェ
"Abilities don't work with excessive Haki"

You'd have to make a CRT to try to limit that to just devil fruit abilities because that's not what's accepted currently.

If your vote is based on Sasuke's abilities that would be negated/resisted by Haki working on Law, then they'd have to be retracted and reevaluated.

 

[Godernet]

I can't tell if you're joking. Luffy wasn't "moving around fire." He was literally punching Prometheus. We can see impact shockwaves and indents on the surface of Prometheus' body. Prometheus was also literally squinting because the fists were hitting around his eyes.

hit sound effects both in the anime and manga

And is literally shown a hit effect when hit... The punches aren't going through him like this, it's making impacts

Prometheus is a compressed flame, which is still a physical thing, that can be interacted with.

indent marks don't defeat that, neither does sound effects.

also, Prometheus is the product of inserting a soul into an object via a DF.

Also, also, can't Nami grab Zeus, a literal cloud created by the same DF, with no haki at all?

 

[Godernet]

Law literally states that:

過剰な覇気に”能力”は通じねェ
"Abilities don't work with excessive Haki"

You'd have to make a CRT to try to limit that to just devil fruit abilities because that's not what's accepted currently.

again abilties in OP are 99% DFs so this doesn't defeat anything said so far.

not to mention what is currently accepted is this:

Resistance to

• Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities[57], seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])

and this;

Devil Fruit Negation (Intense enough Haki can counteract and negate Devil Fruit abilities, seen when Trafalgar Law negated the effects of the Feminization Disease from the Sick-Sick Fruit[63])


if anyone's gotta make a CRT, it's y'all.

If your vote is based on Sasuke's abilities that would be negated/resisted by Haki working on Law, then they'd have to be retracted and reevaluated.

you don't decide that, matches are made to exchange arguments that not everyone will agree with by the end.

unless an argument violates standards it can be used.

just because you feel an argument isn't valid doesn't mean votes get redacted.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Prometheus is a compressed flame, which is still a physical thing, that can be interacted with.

I guess this actually true

Tho the water does go through him instead of splash on him

 

[Kachon123]

Prometheus is a compressed flame, which is still a physical thing, that can be interacted with.

Compressed flames aren't solid objects. Where did you get that idea from? Luffy was literally able to reach his hand through Wyper's Burn Bazooka of compressed flames.

Also, also, can't Nami grab Zeus, a literal cloud created by the same DF, with no haki at all?

Clouds in One Piece have high density. Doflamingo literally ties his strings around clouds to fly.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

again abilties in OP are 99% DFs so this doesn't defeat anything said so far.

this is just not true... Devil fruit abilities are insanely rare

not to mention what is currently accepted is this:

Resistance to

• Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities[57], seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])

and this;

Devil Fruit Negation (Intense enough Haki can counteract and negate Devil Fruit abilities, seen when Trafalgar Law negated the effects of the Feminization Disease from the Sick-Sick Fruit[63])


if anyone's gotta make a CRT, it's y'all.

Yep... That (Something I literally made get accepted) and this

Resistance to

• Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])

just because you feel an argument isn't valid doesn't mean votes get redacted.

Ignoring abilities in the haki page has nothing to with feelings... It's objectively untrue that haki only resists devil fruits on the page

 

[Godernet]

Compressed flames aren't solid objects. Where did you get that idea from? Luffy was literally able to reach his hand through Wyper's Burn Bazooka of compressed flames.

Wiper's breath dial-enhanced flames from his cannon is not the same as a fire with a soul inside of it given life by a Devil Fruit.

Clouds in One Piece have high density. Doflamingo literally ties his strings around clouds to fly.

touching clouds is not the standard

 

[Testarossa002]

Putting aside the Haki arguments, what exactly are Zoro's wincons?
Both his regular attacks and amped ones (which he can't spam) are incapable of taking Sasuke out of the fight

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

touching clouds is not the standard

those are sea clouds...

 

[Godernet]

this is just not true... Devil fruit abilities are insanely rare

for the average person yes, for the average strong character in the series, no

if most people in the world are powerless normal people, and a small percent with all the powers use DFs. that still means 99% of the worlds powers is devil fruits.

Yep... That (Something I literally made get accepted) and this

heat isnt conventional hax so this is irrelevant brotha

Ignoring abilities in the haki page has nothing to with feelings... It's objectively untrue that haki only resists devil fruits on the page

no one is ignoring anything, y'all are turning something straightforward into a semantics argument.

until the Haki page says that it can negate all abilities not devil fruit abilities, it only negates devil fruit abilities.

 

[Kachon123]

touching clouds is not the standard

Those are sea clouds. Regular clouds are able to be touched.

 

[Kachon123]

Wiper's breath dial-enhanced flames from his cannon is not the same as a fire with a soul inside of it given life by a Devil Fruit.

What does having a soul have to do with being a solid? Both are compressed flames.

 

[Godernet]

those are sea clouds...

the sea clouds are denser than the norm so people can sail and walk on them in the higher parts of Skypiea

yet they still arent tangible like Zeus