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Po is stronger in the Spirit Realm, but at the same time Black Tortoise did the feat outside the realm and Po is roughly comparable
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Dreamworks - Kung Fu Panda assorted CRT
- Thread starter Jasonsith
- Start date
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Kai using Oogway's chi to return to the real world was calced at 30-something tons. And anyway, the issue is less that characters are stronger in the spirit realm and more that, due to the nature of the spirit realm, Po is able to be who he truly is inside - the true dragon master.
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Aight. Thanks for the clear-up.
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So there is no sign characters can be as strong in "living world" as in "spirit realm"?
What about the Wellspring statistics amplification? Does that suggest characters are as strong in the living world as in the spirit realm?
What about the Wellspring statistics amplification? Does that suggest characters are as strong in the living world as in the spirit realm?
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I still don’t see a reason Po should be far weaker than the individual constellations.
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In base or after he gets the wellspring amp in the mortal realm?
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Latter.
Former I can understand Po being weaker but Post-amp he should realistically be in the exact same power sphere as Black Tortoise
Also, with S1’s ending we should really consider dropping the amp part considering the Wellspring doesn’t exist anymore
Former I can understand Po being weaker but Post-amp he should realistically be in the exact same power sphere as Black Tortoise
Also, with S1’s ending we should really consider dropping the amp part considering the Wellspring doesn’t exist anymore
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Well I've already expressed my thoughts on the Black Tortoise scaling.
It's hardly worth dropping the stuff about the wellspring amp when it happens at the end of the season and we haven't seen how it impacted the characters. Not to mention it can still be indexed anyway, since Po explicitly was amped by the wellspring.
It's hardly worth dropping the stuff about the wellspring amp when it happens at the end of the season and we haven't seen how it impacted the characters. Not to mention it can still be indexed anyway, since Po explicitly was amped by the wellspring.
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My thoughts are Po in the mortal realm Post amp, and with hero chi, should scale to the meteor, and then upscale from that in the spirit realm due to fighting amped Jindiao, who without the amp could stomp the constellations when they were near the Wellspring.
I’d also argue a prime Oogway scales for very similar reasons but that’s for another time maybe
I’d also argue a prime Oogway scales for very similar reasons but that’s for another time maybe
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Oh yeah, there are something that should be noted.
While Tai Lung does have resistance to Fire on his page there should be brackets saying that Tai Lung casually held blue flames in his hand which blue flames are 2,600º F and 3,000º F. He also could direct the flames in his hands with his attacks without it perishing.
While Tai Lung does have resistance to Fire on his page there should be brackets saying that Tai Lung casually held blue flames in his hand which blue flames are 2,600º F and 3,000º F. He also could direct the flames in his hands with his attacks without it perishing.
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Resistance against fire and high temperature in general?
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Probably yeah.
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I'll add the resistance to Heat Manipulation (Temperature Manipulation) to Tai Lung's page.
Also, I think some things should be noted.
The Furious Five should be very clearly 8-C not "likely". We have Crane and Tigress sparring and dueling in the first movie briefly, the Furious Five harming Boar before training who could take hits from Tigress who did the 8-C feat in that short, them harming Tai Lung, realistically being much above Bandits who can harm Po and Tigress even if they are weaker, Monkey harming Tigress in Kung Fu Panda 3 accidentally, and countless showings of harming people on an 8-C level countless times.
I am kind of confused with the gap between Po and the others with him being Supersonic and them being Subsonic. I heard it's with him reacting to canons while the Furious Five being completely blitzed by it. All the times the characters were blitzed by the canon were in a very close range. We even see in the very scene before Po deflects the canon, the music build-up implies when Po was in close range of the canon he was about to die. In the very next scene, Shen keeps up with Po, and Po is even hit and by the grunting implies he has a difficult time keeping up with Shen. Next scene Shifu moves fast enough for Po to even realize he's no longer in his grasp. Kung Fu Panda 3 the Jade Zombies are capable of keeping up with him who the Furious Five can keep up with. As well as numerous times in Legends of Awesomeness where they can keep up with people that give Po difficulty. So even if we don't scale them to the far distance of the canon shot, this would technically be an outlier for Po since the amount of scaling to the characters far outweighs the only time Po deflects something that blitzes the latter.
Also, I think some things should be noted.
The Furious Five should be very clearly 8-C not "likely". We have Crane and Tigress sparring and dueling in the first movie briefly, the Furious Five harming Boar before training who could take hits from Tigress who did the 8-C feat in that short, them harming Tai Lung, realistically being much above Bandits who can harm Po and Tigress even if they are weaker, Monkey harming Tigress in Kung Fu Panda 3 accidentally, and countless showings of harming people on an 8-C level countless times.
I am kind of confused with the gap between Po and the others with him being Supersonic and them being Subsonic. I heard it's with him reacting to canons while the Furious Five being completely blitzed by it. All the times the characters were blitzed by the canon were in a very close range. We even see in the very scene before Po deflects the canon, the music build-up implies when Po was in close range of the canon he was about to die. In the very next scene, Shen keeps up with Po, and Po is even hit and by the grunting implies he has a difficult time keeping up with Shen. Next scene Shifu moves fast enough for Po to even realize he's no longer in his grasp. Kung Fu Panda 3 the Jade Zombies are capable of keeping up with him who the Furious Five can keep up with. As well as numerous times in Legends of Awesomeness where they can keep up with people that give Po difficulty. So even if we don't scale them to the far distance of the canon shot, this would technically be an outlier for Po since the amount of scaling to the characters far outweighs the only time Po deflects something that blitzes the latter.
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I am fine with subsonic travel speed with supersonic cobbat speed and reactions Tai Lung and supersonic Furious Five plus Po and anyone who scales (combat speed uograde sure, not sure about travel speed).
Seems like post wellspring amp Po and Constellation Four and Jindiao are agreed to be "at least city possibly country" in the mortal realm as well as in the spirit realm iirc.
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I think Travel Speed should stay Subsonic for every character, except Kai since he’s already Supersonic and most likely Oogway for being on par. Shifu, The Furious Five and Po reacting and dodging attacks from Kai should only be taken as reaction and combat speed at the moment since only Kai has displayed such movement speed. I think KFP 3 Po should be Subsonic with Supersonic reactions and combat due to the only time with Kai is reacting to his attacks rather than Po being plain Supersonic.
On a side note with our conclusions for Paws of Destiny. I think it should be noted that we’re scaling the Wushi Finger hold for some reason to Wellspring Po. Which the Wushi Finger hold was always portrayed as a move rather than your own power. This is evident in the first movie creating a shockwave far beyond anything Po’s normal feats have done. This is again evident in KFP3, and Paws of Destiny. The shockwave is always just as a huge, which implies it may just scale to the move rather than the character in particular.
On a side note with our conclusions for Paws of Destiny. I think it should be noted that we’re scaling the Wushi Finger hold for some reason to Wellspring Po. Which the Wushi Finger hold was always portrayed as a move rather than your own power. This is evident in the first movie creating a shockwave far beyond anything Po’s normal feats have done. This is again evident in KFP3, and Paws of Destiny. The shockwave is always just as a huge, which implies it may just scale to the move rather than the character in particular.
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Honestly if we really want to go by consistency it’s ridiculous to even have any characters in Tier 6. Master Black Tortoise’s feat was merely just to show off that these guy’s are tough, then when Jindiao comes on screen who’s much stronger he doesn’t even do anything out of Tier 8. He doesn’t one-shot any of the Panda Villagers after their amp with his physical attacks, he fails to one-shot or at least kill Jade Tusk in a single attack, and Po could faze him by hitting him to the head and annoyingly faze him with his punches.
Most of the legends are portrayed so higher-end it’s insane. Crane taking on like 1000 enemies in a legend but struggling with a few bandits on screen. Temutai being stated that he could rip people in half without touching them but is not even close to that. Fenghuang being a match for Oogway and even harming him and taking hits from him in a flashback, but struggles with Shifu and Po and even Tigress holding her own against her briefly on screen. The Furious Five being called the best Kung Fu Warriors in all of China but get constantly overwhelmed by newly introduced characters.
I honestly think the Wellspring amp only affected their Chi which makes sense considering the Young Constellations the entire half of the series from what I watched consistency portrayed the large gap with their physical and chi attacks.
In conclusion, Tier 6 I’m fine with scaling though it’s ripped to shambles to everything on screen.
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Oh yeah on a side note I think this should be noted. I’ve seen people constantly arguing who was stronger between Kai and Oogway due to Kai winning and others saying it was due to Oogway letting himself. Though I think it should be noted how Kai won.
They were evenly matched up to that point and when Oogway created that giant chi shield, Kai grabbed two giant boulders and threw it into it which overpowered the shield and caused a shockwave. It’s implied he was blasted from his own shockwave as well as he’s shown floating in the air hit and stunned by it.
Since I’m kind of making too many comments I’ll post another site note in this one and it’s 8-B Po. This time AP.
I’m kind of confused with Po being 8-B from harming others who can harm him. Those same people are sometimes regular bandits, and even some people with little skill compared to him. Heck the Panda kids who just learned Kung Fu already were capable of taking on the people who can harm and take a hit from Po even if they are out skilled and stomped. I find it kind of ridiculous that the gap is so huge between every other master in China and the Paws of Destiny characters who have just the same showings and even less skill. Heck even Mr Ping is capable of knocking out one of Jade Tusk’s fellow peers after they were all bumped up by the Wellspring.
They were evenly matched up to that point and when Oogway created that giant chi shield, Kai grabbed two giant boulders and threw it into it which overpowered the shield and caused a shockwave. It’s implied he was blasted from his own shockwave as well as he’s shown floating in the air hit and stunned by it.
Since I’m kind of making too many comments I’ll post another site note in this one and it’s 8-B Po. This time AP.
I’m kind of confused with Po being 8-B from harming others who can harm him. Those same people are sometimes regular bandits, and even some people with little skill compared to him. Heck the Panda kids who just learned Kung Fu already were capable of taking on the people who can harm and take a hit from Po even if they are out skilled and stomped. I find it kind of ridiculous that the gap is so huge between every other master in China and the Paws of Destiny characters who have just the same showings and even less skill. Heck even Mr Ping is capable of knocking out one of Jade Tusk’s fellow peers after they were all bumped up by the Wellspring.
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Idk why it would be exaggerated when Po is just telling a true story about what these masters did.
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The flashbacks in the TV series are usually not exaggerated.
An example is the Sacred Lei-Lang Hammer, in flashbacks it’s shown to destroy mountains and that level of destruction is shown on-screen by the end. The only times they are exaggerated is when it’s very clear in-story that Po is lying, like with his bean pod story.
An example is the Sacred Lei-Lang Hammer, in flashbacks it’s shown to destroy mountains and that level of destruction is shown on-screen by the end. The only times they are exaggerated is when it’s very clear in-story that Po is lying, like with his bean pod story.
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A solid Tier 6 should definitely be removed, it's far from the main thing they should scale from when Jindiao their far superior barely shows anything above Tier 8. Though Tier 6 is definitely something worth noting so the closest feat that's shown on screen with an "At least (Insert what they scale to here)", possibly Continent level+ (Stomped the four constellations and is immensely stronger than them which should include Master Black Tortoise who stopped a life wiping meteor. Though it should be noted he has yet to show such a feat even close to this level on screen)" or just a note pointing this out. This would apply to Jindiao and The Constellations.
It's not that it's exaggerated. It's more of that the flashbacks usually show higher-ends of the character in a massive manner that I pointed out. Realistically if we went for higher-ends we'd have them at Tier 6 but it's not a consistent higher-end since it only happened once in a flashback when Jindiao at best as shown to destroy buildings and tank attacks to the body that it's ridiculous to even have them at a solid Tier 6.
I think that's mainly due to that Hammer's entire point being a weapon of massive destruction which would make sense why it's consistent as it's only in one episode.
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There’s also the Eternal Chord being said to sustain the universe, which ended up being true.
And while this is sort of weird, the shaking earth thing would be consistent Powerscaling wise with the meteor if it was tier 6, because it was performed by Oogway before he got Hero’s Chi during the Ke-Pa fight, and Hero’s Chi allowed black tortoise to do the meteor feat.
And while this is sort of weird, the shaking earth thing would be consistent Powerscaling wise with the meteor if it was tier 6, because it was performed by Oogway before he got Hero’s Chi during the Ke-Pa fight, and Hero’s Chi allowed black tortoise to do the meteor feat.
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I am a little iffy with the shaking earth since it could be hyperbole. I'm honestly one who thinks Oogway's just 8-A in general since chi is constantly portrayed as something that boosts your well... chi attacks rather than your physicals. Evident with Kai when he uses Chi attacks, The Young Constellations, etc. And in the flashback, Oogway took a beating from Ke-Pa. 8-A Oogway isn't that crazy in general since he scales to Kai who did multiple 8-B feats. Though with the shaking earth thing I should point out the ground was completely shattered in the background when it was formerly a flat surface so some damage was definitely done.
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If Po scales to the Four Constellations, I feel Oogway should as well, at least in his prime.
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I'm iffy on it but I'll help you out with some outliers that some people will use against you.
"It's an outlier for the characters to scale above 8-A as Po two-shots Ke-Pa"
Po two-shotting Ke-Pa with the Hero's Chi doesn't scale to Paws of Destiny Po's Hero's Chi. Shifu states that the Peach Tree "Restored and greatly enhanced his Chi". Now how did Po two-shot him? You may notice he only shrugs off the first blast after 3 seconds as it barely damages him rather stuns him. Then the second blast one-shots them. This is due to the final blast actually being much stronger, not only is he firing that blast right in his mouth. But it's implied that was his finishing move and it's implied he used all his power in that last attack as he uses his stomach rather than his hands and after that scene, Po is no longer seen with the power.
"Kai was stomped by Po's Dragon in KFP3 which Po's Hero's Chi is comparable to. As well as Kai couldn't absorb it meaning Po is massively above every other master in China including Oogway"
The first part of the fight was mainly just Po breaking out of his grasp and being much stronger as he turns the entire spirit realm yellow. Though saying that any character comparable to Kai can't scale slightly to anything above is wrong. While he's stronger the main reason Po "stomped" Kai was his flight. Po catching his blade with the Dragon's mouth isn't that impressive telling by how even someone like Shifu can hit his blade hard enough for them to lose its momentum it isn't that impressive. And after that, it was merely Kai trying to hit Po but failing as he just goes flying with Po or gets stuck when Po flies into him. Po being massively above every master in China isn't impressive. No one on-screen has ever shown any Chi other than their mastery of Kung Fu magic. Kai even viewed Shifu's chi as strong compared to the others as when he's examining his chi he literally goes "Yes" with a tone that he's powerful and Shifu states he needs 30 years in a cave which means he hasn't even spent a second in a cave asking who he is. Oogway's the only character with mastery of chi on Kai's belt and Shifu's the only one who's strong on his belt who's massively below mastery. So realistically Kai is just absorbing something beyond Kai with every master in China being basically irrelevant as their chi is barely anything. Also Po's Hero Chi in Legends of Awesomeness or Paws of Destiny isn't comparable to the Chi in the movie as he was aided by every single Panda in the village, including Tigress and Ping which Tigress is also implied to have some manipulation over chi as she can use it with her attacks.
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I'll make a conclusion.
Shifu should have optional equipment with the Sacred War Hammer which seems 7-A and doesn't scale to anyone. As Shifu is the current master of the Jade Palace which currently owns and holds it. Also a Bamboo stick for optional equipment for using it in the movie and several times during the show. Oogway's staff is weird in the movies after the first flim he always holds it as standard but in LoA he barely uses it and doesn't even wear the green robe. Also his walking stick which isn't present in the movies but uses constantly in LoA so probably standard equipment. He also uses both the Staff and Walking stick to fight.
On a side note, Shifu shouldn't have likely Pressure Points he clearly has it. In a scene where Tai Lung uses the Pressure Point attacks "Shifu... taught you well" strikes Monkey with a pressure point attack "But he didn't teach you everything" should be a clearly saying that he has it. Now with Illusion creation, it should be noted Shifu could technically do it into anyone as Junjie using the same magic could transform into a goat.
Everyone should have Subsonic with Supersonic reactions and combat speed except those with already Supersonic travel speed.
Remove likely 8-C from the Furious Five and have them at plain 8-C with brackets like (Comparable to Tigress and can harm people on the level of her. Capable of harming Post KFP2 and stomping bandits who are capable of somewhat harming the latter. Harmed Tai Lung and somewhat overwhelmed him when working with the Furious Five till he resorted to Pressure points) or something like that.
At least City/7-B, possibly Continent/6-A for the Constellation level characters for now.
Still, be discussed:
8-B Po is odd cause that'd be normal bandits in Paws of Destiny can hurt him, and Panda children who just learned Kung Fu are 8-B which is ridiculous from that huge of a gap from every other master in China with no showings. Other than just scaling from Po.
The Wushi Finger being a move on it's own and not scaling to anyone.
Po taking punches from Kim the Invincible a High 8-C (Though the discussion has stopped for now).
Shifu should have optional equipment with the Sacred War Hammer which seems 7-A and doesn't scale to anyone. As Shifu is the current master of the Jade Palace which currently owns and holds it. Also a Bamboo stick for optional equipment for using it in the movie and several times during the show. Oogway's staff is weird in the movies after the first flim he always holds it as standard but in LoA he barely uses it and doesn't even wear the green robe. Also his walking stick which isn't present in the movies but uses constantly in LoA so probably standard equipment. He also uses both the Staff and Walking stick to fight.
On a side note, Shifu shouldn't have likely Pressure Points he clearly has it. In a scene where Tai Lung uses the Pressure Point attacks "Shifu... taught you well" strikes Monkey with a pressure point attack "But he didn't teach you everything" should be a clearly saying that he has it. Now with Illusion creation, it should be noted Shifu could technically do it into anyone as Junjie using the same magic could transform into a goat.
Everyone should have Subsonic with Supersonic reactions and combat speed except those with already Supersonic travel speed.
Remove likely 8-C from the Furious Five and have them at plain 8-C with brackets like (Comparable to Tigress and can harm people on the level of her. Capable of harming Post KFP2 and stomping bandits who are capable of somewhat harming the latter. Harmed Tai Lung and somewhat overwhelmed him when working with the Furious Five till he resorted to Pressure points) or something like that.
At least City/7-B, possibly Continent/6-A for the Constellation level characters for now.
Still, be discussed:
8-B Po is odd cause that'd be normal bandits in Paws of Destiny can hurt him, and Panda children who just learned Kung Fu are 8-B which is ridiculous from that huge of a gap from every other master in China with no showings. Other than just scaling from Po.
The Wushi Finger being a move on it's own and not scaling to anyone.
Po taking punches from Kim the Invincible a High 8-C (Though the discussion has stopped for now).
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As long as the meteor thing is represented to some capacity, I’m fine with the possibly rating (not sure where continent came from).
Equipment stuff for Shifu and Junjie seems good. If we ever get a Tong Fo profile maybe the hammer could go on his optional equipment too.
Furious Five stat changes seem fine, with the caveat they only scale in AP to a casual Po.
And then the other stuff I’m fine to discuss further if needed.
Equipment stuff for Shifu and Junjie seems good. If we ever get a Tong Fo profile maybe the hammer could go on his optional equipment too.
Furious Five stat changes seem fine, with the caveat they only scale in AP to a casual Po.
And then the other stuff I’m fine to discuss further if needed.
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I don't think Shifu should get all items from the Jade Palace as optional equipment. Many of the items he simply safeguards and would never consider using himself. Bamboo stick is fine since he's seen using it.
He's never seen using it, but I also think it's clear he can utilize pressure points. Don't mind either way.
Sure, though I don't agree with jombies being comparable in speed to KFP3 Po (and in turn, Oogway and Kai). Tigress was shown to react to the cannon's blast, and Thundering Rhino was able to tag the cannon blast that killed him as shown by the dent in his hammer. I think KFP3 Po, Kai and Oogway simply upscale from this.
I think upscaling from a young Tigress is justification enough. I've got more supporting evidence for their tier (the Kung Fu Panda official art book states that Mantis is capable of breaking buildings) but yeah, "likely" needs to go.
Well, it'd be "possibly 6-B" I think. Don't mind whether possibly or likely is used.
Random bandits harming Po is PIS. Panda children would typically backscale from 8-B, but powerful chi is typically shown as being able to augment physical strength, like how Kai and Jindiao got stronger by absorbing more chi. So I don't think it's that weird that the panda children are above the other masters when they're the hosts of some of the most powerful chi in the verse.
The Wuxi Finger Hold disperses the target's chi. Since Po targetted himself with the hold, the shockwave should only be as powerful as Po's chi can be. And I don't think that being his limit is a good argument since in the next episode he was shown to have regained his Hero's chi on top of the amp he received from the wellspring.
I don't think this contradicts anything either. Tai Lung's chi shockwave was only powerful enough to kick up a dust storm, and didn't damage any of the buildings around them (that I noticed). Po's chi shockwave wasn't massively impressive either against Kai.
Also, can we stop bringing new points up please? The thread is mostly concluded, anything main series related can be covered in the next CRT.
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Yeah that’s fine. Though Oogway’s Staff should be added as she has used it in fights before like the Jade Zombie fight and after the first movie he carries it around all the time other than LoA.
I’m kind of confused, I don’t remember me saying the Jombies are comparable. Though with Po KFP3 I honestly don’t think he’s plain Oogway and Kai tier in speed. When they fought on Ice the only time they ever kept up was Po blocking 2-3 hits which I see as combat speed and reaction unless Po already has Supersonic travel speed.
Honestly I disagree. Bandits harming any of the characters is something normal. Before you say that it wouldn’t make sense for any random bandits to be in the same ballpark is correct. Though to be honest to have them in a complete different tier by our standards is kind of odd. The whole reason the bandits get stomped handily everytime is not just that the warriors are physically stronger but massively out skill them. This is pretty evident. There’s an episode where Po beats the croc bandits with his pinkies even though the croc bandits are capable of hurting Po, Po massively out skills them. Later in the episode Shifu trains them for a few days (Granted with some tough physical training but shouldn’t be that massive) and the Croc’s overwhelm Po and the Furious Five albeit out of practice. This is later evident with Junjie’s stundents who the Furious Five consistently beats and Po stomps the Furious Five. Po a few days out of practice, one of them gains an upper ground easily on Po and all 5 of them crush him handily. There’s also the fact Kung Fu is a main factor of the series. So to be honest I honestly don’t think stomping means they don’t scale unless it’s all due to power. The reason they get dispatched quickly is because Po’s hits are still in the end much stronger but still roughly comparable in the end. To try and justify a Bandit and Kai in the same tier ie having them back scale heavily like this. Bandits << The Furious Five < Po << Oogway < Kai. Kai is just far superior but not to an extent that they have to be put on different tiers of destruction that is if they are out on the same tier.
With the Chi and physicals I honestly still think they are different. Kai notably uses chi-enhanced kicks and are notably stronger. When Kai headbutt Po it barely hurt him and didn’t even let out any grunt then when he got a chi enhanced kick it exhausted him so hard it left him defenceless and it took time for him to recover. Later in the Sprit Realm Po get headbutt and doesn’t let out a grunt, and a Chi enhanced punch right after knocked him unconscious briefly and was completely defenceless unable to get out of his chains. This is also evident with the young constellations in the first episode if I remember correctly they were below Jade Tusk but then when they used their Chi it was so powerful they fled. I also remember the Young constellations also throughout the Jindiao arc being below Po and Jade Tusk but having chi attacks much stronger telling by their efforts against Jindiao.
Makes sense.
The other ones I didn’t respond to were the ones I 100% agreed with.
My other points I’ll bring up in the next thread.
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