Dreamworks - Kung Fu Panda assorted CRT

[Jasonsith]

I don't really agree with it being simply illumination.

Actually my "Revised Calculation 2" acknowledges that the clash did blow up some petals and fallen leaves and is not just illumination.

Paws of Destiny inferior?
Lesser known? Sure.
Quality wise? Not necessarily if the power level is not jumping that high. Also very few even bother reading the White Bone Demon arc. Which may be just so forgettable or the power level fluctuates as fxxk.
btw POD just belongs to a TV/net show series, making it a separate canon despite basing largely on the movies.

Okay. To sum up what to apply

Movie Po
Attack Potency:
At least Building level (He was able to harm Tai Lung) | At least Building level (Far superior to his Kung Fu Panda 1 self, overpowered Shen), Multi-City Block level with Hero's Chi (Killed Ke-Pa in two hits) | At least City Block level, at least Multi-City Block level with Mastery of Chi (Should be far superior to his Hero's Chi. Casually stomped Kai. Po's Mastered Chi was described by Kai as being "too much", implying that he couldn't absorb it all, making it immensely superior to the combined chi of the Furious Five (sans Tigress), Master Shifu, Master Oogway, and all of the other Kung Fu Masters from both the Spirit Realm and the entirety of China)
Speed:
At least Subsonic (Kept pace with Tai Lung) | At least Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed and reactions (Reflected supersonic cannonballs) | At least Supersonic
Key:
Kung Fu Panda | Kung Fu Panda 2 | Kung Fu Panda 3

TV series Po
Legend of Awesomeness (Pre-Wellspring amp)
Attack Potency:
At least City Block level (Po is able to harm opponents who are comparable to him in durability), At least Multi City Block level with Hero's Chi (Immensely stronger than Ke-Pa, should be at least comparable to the Hero's Chi he used to fight Kai. Jindiao stated that Hero's Chi Po was stronger than himself. Po's Hero's Chi was used to throw and violently fragment a large boulder. Staggered the White Bone Demon with his chi, although it is unclear whether he was amped by the wellspring when he did this)
Speed:
At least Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed and reactions
Paws of Destiny (Post-Wellspring amp)
Attack Potency:
At least City Block level (Immensely stronger than before after being amped by the Wellspring, Po's Wuxi Finger Hold was able to part the clouds covering the Panda Village, even without Po's Hero's Chi); at least City level, possibly Country level+ in the Spirit Realm (Po fought evenly with Jindiao in his true form, who tanked a combination attacks from the four constellations, each of whom should be individually comparable to the chi of Master Black Tortoise, who could stop a meteor from hitting the Earth while the actual size of the meteor is debatable), possibly far higher (Jindiao had absorbed the power of the Wellspring, which was described as "endless" as well as the source of all light in the universe)
Speed:
At least Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed and reactions. At least Subsonic with High Hypersonic combat speed and reactions in the Spirit Realm (comparable to Master Black Tortoise)


Attack potency and lifting strength of Kim remains that for himself.

 

[JJSliderman]

Other than moving the meteor thing to pre-amp I don’t have significant problems with that.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if we should really separate the TV series and movie versions into different continuities.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[Kyleb79]

Po punched Kim in the chest and it did nothing

That literally isn't impressive whatsoever. Temutai took a flying kick and it did absolutely nothing knocking Po conscious briefly by the impact of it. Tigress could even do such tanking as a complete hit to the arm. A complete charge using far more energy and speed is completely different than simply punching someone with minimal effort. Not saying Tigress is more durable but screaming extremely loud from an impact punch is more impressive than just simply saying "Yeah... that hurt" in a soft voice. So the feat is far from impressive.

Kim was proven to be stronger and faster than Po, and too tough for the panda to hurt or even move during their fight,

For one throughout the fight. Nothing implies he was faster in the first fight it was just him tanking sharp weapons being thrown at him, then throwing a chain that instantly chains Po up, which isn't being faster. In the second fight, Po had his chain trapped in his hand which allowed Kim to pull him in and punch him over and over again then swing him around. None of these fights say he's faster.

so what Shifu says isn't an exaggeration

It technically is. He stated "A physical attack would be useless" when a rockslide clearly affected him and Po merely falling backwards and knocking into him unknowingly sent him knocking off his feet and sent him flying. The only times we sent him tank things are piercing damaging weapons, and a simple punch from Po.

He hypes up a lot of threats, but he never hugely overestimates them, because they prove to be big threats still (which again, cannot be said by Temutai who Shifu has fought and done better against)

If he told Tigress that Temutai had Kung Fu so strong that he could tear someone apart without touching them then he definitely overestimated him. After Po defeated him, once in front of his face then of course he wouldn't overestimate him.

His use of wrestling moves and his chains also makes him a better fighter, since Temutai is purely and simply a brute.

No. Shifu stated he has a legendary fighting style, which is shown when he is capable of keeping up with Po. Then later on Ping who can be a worthy opponent to Po, Temutai kept up with him when he was armed with a sword while he himself was disarmed and managed to disarm him. Temutai is far from a brute, just someone with immense strength with Kung Fu. Also I never remembered Kim having wrestling moves, just mastery of his chains. Which if they were to fight, Temutai would easily break since even Po got out of them over time.

Nevermind the strength gap between the two... if Shifu can match his strength, he's nothing to Kim.

They're not even close in strength. Shifu requires to hit him in the head, which is proven consistently to be vulnerable compared to his torso, and even then he easily shrugged off a kick to the face by Shifu. Also nothing says the gap between Kim and Po is so huge they need to be put in different categories. While Kim casually punched him and sent him back it should be noted his head hit a large rock which would worsen the impact, which Po was only stunned for a few seconds. Later on Po was sent back but shrugged off a punch from Kim who was pulling him in at high-speeds with a chain making the impact stronger, not once but multiple times Po shrugged them off.

Kim was only knocked away when he was weakened by a huge explosion happening in his innards, the only non-indestructible part of his body.

It visually shows his torso imploded, and Po kicked him to the head and sent him flying and knocked him out since his stamina was basically depleted from it. Using the Temutai example, where he tanks all of Po's attacks to his torso but is vulnerable to the head. This would make sense since Kim boasts about his torso hide. Po never gets to hit him in the head up to that point, so it isn't contradicted as all the blows in the episode happen to his torso. There's also the fact before he was weakened where he knocked into Kim and sent him flying when he was hit in the torso.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Btw: Apologies for a brief derailment, but did any of the rest of you also think that Paws of Destiny was inferior in story quality to the movies and Legends of Awesomeness? Perhaps the scale had simply reached almost beyond what the setting was originally designed to handle at this point?

Probably because Paws of Destiny was more about the lore and these new panda kids nobody cared about.

At least LoA followed characters from the movies.

I am not sure if we should really separate the TV series and movie versions into different continuities.

KFP3 didn't help the TV series since much of what we see techniques-wise in LoA isn't attempted in KFP3 against Kai, thus making the series only partially canon in a way. Paws of Destiny is canon to the movies AND the show so it gets a little foggier.

That literally isn't impressive whatsoever.

It's a punch from Po. With Tigress it was just training, and while admittedly Po didn't seem to be taking Kim very seriously, he had already fought big opponents like him and he was probably using just as much effort as with those guys, and that'd include Temutai who is of similar size.

Nothing implies he was faster in the first fight

He punched Po faster than he could react and everything else Po tried was pretty much useless. And that was all just Kim playing around to make Po suffer more.

He stated "A physical attack would be useless" when a rockslide clearly affected him and Po merely falling backwards and knocking into him unknowingly sent him knocking off his feet and sent him flying.

Moving =/= Hurting them, none of those even bothered Kim, he was only annoyed by the fact that he was being delayed, but it's shown at multiple parts of the episode that he's polite and quite patient.

Gag moments were the only instances where Kim was pushed away, Shifu specified actually damaging him which is why the soup was part of the equation.

If he told Tigress that Temutai had Kung Fu so strong that he could tear someone apart without touching them then he definitely overestimated him.

I mean Temutai is probably strong enough to do that to Tigress, but I don't remember him saying anything Temutai about touching them.

Also I never remembered Kim having wrestling moves, just mastery of his chains.

He showcases elbow dropping and a few others against Po and in his tattoos.

They're not even close in strength.

Precisely my point. Temutai has NEVER done anything on the level of this. This is borderline Kai/Ke-Pa level almost.

Temutai is one of the stronger enemies but he's a recurring villain that gets beaten damn near every time he appears. Kim was a one-off threat because of the menace he presented and because he could only be defeated in one specific manner.

While Kim casually punched him and sent him back it should be noted his head hit a large rock which would worsen the impact, which Po was only stunned for a few seconds. Later on Po was sent back but shrugged off a punch from Kim who was pulling him in at high-speeds with a chain making the impact stronger, not once but multiple times Po shrugged them off.

Did you intentionally forget the part about Kim making Po suffer? That was the whole reason he didn't just kill Po easily and quickly.

Shifu requires to hit him in the head, which is proven consistently to be vulnerable compared to his torso, and even then he easily shrugged off a kick to the face by Shifu.

He gets hit in other areas of the body and still gets hurt, we see this in other episodes. Temutai is tough, one of the toughest KFP villains even, but he's not Kim if Shifu actually stands a chance at beating him.

It visually shows his torso imploded, and Po kicked him to the head and sent him flying and knocked him out since his stamina was basically depleted from it.

"Imploded"? Either way the explosion signified he'd been weakened enough to actually be defeated, it did most of the work. The kick was Po finally getting a hit in that did something that wasn't hijinkgs or didn't do anything.

This would make sense since Kim boasts about his torso hide.

Kim boasts about his impenetrable hide, a hippo's hide covers everything, not just his torso. It's not like when he fell down a cliff he didn't hit his head.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Im pretty sure Legends of Awesomeness referenced many events from Kung Fu Panda 1 so it would be canon

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Legends of Awesomenes' Enter the Dragon special immediately references KFP2 when one of the villagers mentions Shen's defeat.

It follows continuity with the first two movies (the third one hadn't debuted and it came out after the show)

 

[JJSliderman]

The ending of LoA sort of leads into KFP3 as well, since the plot of the final episode was Po learning to embrace a leadership role as a bandit king and Shifu acknowledges that Po has what it takes to be a leader

 

[Kyleb79]

It's a punch from Po. With Tigress it was just training, and while admittedly Po didn't seem to be taking Kim very seriously, he had already fought big opponents like him and he was probably using just as much effort as with those guys, and that'd include Temutai who is of similar size.

Uhhh... you can't just hold back and not scream in pain from a casual punch. If you punch a wall without much effort that isn't going to hurt, with Po he punched Tigress that created a large shockwave and this made him scream in pain. That should pretty much imply he was going at full force with his punch. Also with Kim, a single punch that takes minimal effort still isn't impressive. You compare him to how he reacted to Temutai, but the difference is Po simply punches him and he uses one of his iconic jump kick attacks on Temutai and is knocked conscious.

Moving =/= Hurting them, none of those even bothered Kim, he was only annoyed by the fact that he was being delayed, but it's shown at multiple parts of the episode that he's polite and quite patient.

Knocking someone off their feet and sending them flying > Hurting them in my mind. His eyes were clearly wide open when the impact happened, implying he took the physical damage. You can shrug off a hit, which is probably why a few seconds later he just seemed annoyed

Gag moments were the only instances where Kim was pushed away, Shifu specified actually damaging him which is why the soup was part of the equation.

Feats > Statements he has minimal feats in the episode other than piercing weapons and a bamboo stick being useless and one of those is him being knocked back by Po. All Shifu has heard was legends of him, again with the Temutai example he viewed him as having Kung Fu that could tear someone apart without touching them when he was far from him.

He punched Po faster than he could react and everything else Po tried was pretty much useless. And that was all just Kim playing around to make Po suffer more.

Pretty sure he couldn't react cause he was unfocused and talking about how that punch hurt. I remember an episode where he was completely blitzed by some crab when he was unfocused and then managed to keep up with him once he was focused. So Kim hitting him when unfocused doesn't suddenly make you faster. If I punched someone while ducking down and talking that doesn't mean they can't react to my punches.

I mean Temutai is probably strong enough to do that to Tigress, but I don't remember him saying anything Temutai about touching them.

No, he can't. Tigress is around Po's level, and Po can take blows from Temutai. So he can't even rip her apart if he got her hands on him, or at least if it was overtime maybe. The legend Tigress stated, "His Kung fu was said to be so strong he could tear an opponent in half without even touching them", and Mantis and Tigress were terrified when he got up.

He showcases elbow dropping and a few others against Po and in his tattoos.

Makes sense.

Precisely my point. Temutai has NEVER done anything on the level of this. This is borderline Kai/Ke-Pa level almost.

Kai is 30 to 50 Tons? Ke-Pa can do an 8-A attack? Kim is 9 Tons? Also, I was referring to Shifu and Temutai which you said Shifu could match him in strength which I debunked? Also in terms of dealing with Po, his High 8-C isn't impressive compared to Po who can take full-on charging punching attacks and shrugging them off? Temutai can also send Po flying, so comparing it to Po isn't impressive whatsoever.

Temutai is one of the stronger enemies but he's a recurring villain that gets beaten damn near every time he appears. Kim was a one-off threat because of the menace he presented and because he could only be defeated in one specific manner.

Temutai had the same treatment in his debut? Po couldn't harm him whatsoever and anything in his style was completely useless against him and required for him to play dirty by pulling his ears. It is only when in later episodes Po adapted to his fighting style and could swiftly take him out. I'm pretty sure if Kim became recurring they'd downplay him like Temutai and bring him down to the same level as Temutai, with the only difference being that Kim doesn't have an army.

Did you intentionally forget the part about Kim making Po suffer? That was the whole reason he didn't just kill Po easily and quickly.

That doesn't mean he's holding back whatsoever? This is when Po was chained up and incapacitated. Po escaped these chains and pissed him off, which Kim proceeded to keep beating on him with his strongest punches by pulling him in at high speeds and punching him over and over and Po still stays conscious. It's only when he uses his surroundings when Po is finally incapacitated (Which he also fakes it as he pretends he is so he can snatch the soup). He proceeds to try and rip him apart, which means he switched motives of making him suffer and just kill him right away.

He gets hit in other areas of the body and still gets hurt, we see this in other episodes. Temutai is tough, one of the toughest KFP villains even, but he's not Kim if Shifu actually stands a chance at beating him.

I don't remember this happening? Can you be specific? The reason Shifu thought he stood no chance, is because of the legend. If he believed Temutai could tear people apart without touching them? Do you really think Shifu would even try to mess with him? He heard Temutai was defeated by Po, but didn't know any of Kim's limits at the time cause no one defeated him to that point.

"Imploded"? Either way the explosion signified he'd been weakened enough to actually be defeated, it did most of the work. The kick was Po finally getting a hit in that did something that wasn't hijinkgs or didn't do anything.

Yeah, he was weakened I already said that his stamina was basically depleted, though visually the only thing that was affected was his torso as shown visually by the explosion. Him sending him flying by kicking him to the head should be normal, though being defeated should be due to his lack of stamina.

Kim boasts about his impenetrable hide, a hippo's hide covers everything, not just his torso. It's not like when he fell down a cliff he didn't hit his head.

The cliff isn't his main feat though? Also, his torso hide is likely more durable than his torso, as it's constantly portrayed as the invincible part of his body the entire episode. He should realistically be able to take his own blows to the head.

 

[Kyleb79]

Also, just something to ask in general. How come Kung Fu Panda 2 Po is listed as far stronger than his KFP1 part? In KFP2, Po stated "I just learned Kung Fu" so it implies it barely happens after Kung Fu Panda.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Also, just something to ask in general. How come Kung Fu Panda 2 Po is listed as far stronger than his KFP1 part? In KFP2, Po stated "I just learned Kung Fu" so it implies it barely happens after Kung Fu Panda.

No, some time is implied to have happened. Something noted in the behind-the-scenes and animation staff extras and whatnot is that they remodeled Po to look slightly less fat, to show he had grown and trained quite a bit since KFP1. Months at the bare minimum.

Uhhh... you can't just hold back and not scream in pain from a casual punch.

Tigress is implied to have extremely durable skin, hence the pain. Kim is tougher but his skin is "flubbier" in comparison.

Knocking someone off their feet and sending them flying > Hurting them in my mind.

Okay so that's entirely opinionated but you were using the example of Kim getting pushed off into the cliff, not the kick. The kick doesn't count because Kim was weakened to the point where he probably would've fallen down on his own.

Feats > Statements he has minimal feats in the episode other than piercing weapons and a bamboo stick being useless and one of those is him being knocked back by Po. All Shifu has heard was legends of him, again with the Temutai example he viewed him as having Kung Fu that could tear someone apart without touching them when he was far from him.

He fought against Temutai. Many of the legends he hears or talks about are proven true (and Kim has proof of his might tattooed all over him), and if he fought against SO many of the other enemies but didn't try anything against Kim, that means something, and is intended to be this way by the writers. He was written to be invincible and he was portrayed as such throughout the entire episode except for the obvious part that couldn't be invincible, Temutai didn't get this treatment so stop comparing the two. They're not even remotely the same personality-wise.

Pretty sure he couldn't react cause he was unfocused and talking about how that punch hurt.

And in various other episodes Po showcases his skill by reacting to things very casually. The writer's intent is clear with Kim, he outclasses Po.

I'm starting to think I'm getting nowhere since you're ignoring the fact of just how casual Kim's punch there was as well. I'm also getting tired of the seemingly condescending way to start replies with "But thiiis? But thaaat?" or similar questions as though I'm ignorant on the matter.

Do you really think Shifu would even try to mess with him? He heard Temutai was defeated by Po, but didn't know any of Kim's limits at the time cause no one defeated him to that point.

There's nothing to prove he wouldn't have faced Temutai personally, but we have proof that he could fight him, whereas the writers made it clear in Kim's debut episode that if Shifu didn't try, it's because he was tough. If they had made him out to be invincible and didn't show him to be invincible to lead to a gag of Shifu easily defeating him, you'd be right, but we didn't see that so the writer's intent was for him to actually be unbeatable even for Shifu. Same with Po's punch, the intent was to make it clear Po's punches wouldn't have any effect on him.

Kai is 30 to 50 Tons? Ke-Pa can do an 8-A attack? Kim is 9 Tons?

Obviously, I meant visually, not calcs-wise.

Only the stronger characters showcase stuff that is similar to tearing a building apart with ease, those being Kai and Ke-Pa.

Also in terms of dealing with Po, his High 8-C isn't impressive compared to Po who can take full-on charging punching attacks and shrugging them off? Temutai can also send Po flying, so comparing it to Po isn't impressive whatsoever.

None of those are even close to separating that section of the Great Wall.

That doesn't mean he's holding back whatsoever?

He is, because if he didn't he would kill him quickly. That's the whole point about making him suffer, he holds back a bit.

He proceeds to try and rip him apart, which means he switched motives of making him suffer and just kill him right away.

No, he had made him suffer enough. The way the tattoos are animated, it seems to imply he has one-shotted or easily bested other warriors, so he normally finishes quickly, hence why him making Po suffer didn't last that long. It wasn't "switching motives".

Yeah, he was weakened I already said that his stamina was basically depleted, though visually the only thing that was affected was his torso as shown visually by the explosion. Him sending him flying by kicking him to the head should be normal, though being defeated should be due to his lack of stamina.

A huge attack doesn't "deplete your stamina" like a video game character, he was weakened which isn't the same as what you mean. Where in his innards he was damaged isn't necessary to know, we just know and it's obvious that he was much weaker afterwards. The kick to the head obviously doesn't mean that's a weakpoint, the writers had Po attack Kim to show his toughness, if they wanted to give him that weakpoint it would've been stated in the episode but it wasn't, so don't give Kim a weakness he doesn't have.

The cliff isn't his main feat though

"Main feat"? What the heck does that mean, he has many important feats. But you keep on yammering about a weakpoint in the end, yet, as I've said before, this is never implied and would've been brought up in the episode. We see that by falling off the cliff he landed on his back which also includes the back of his head given how he was getting up. All parts of his body are equally tough, that's basic hippo badassery.

Also, his torso hide is likely more durable than his torso

What? The torso itself IS covered by his hide...

Anyway, outside of these weird arguments, where Kim stands is obvious. I've no desire to discuss this any longer since I've said everything I need to already.

 

[Kyleb79]

Okay so that's entirely opinionated but you were using the example of Kim getting pushed off into the cliff, not the kick. The kick doesn't count because Kim was weakened to the point where he probably would've fallen down on his own.

What kick? All I implied in the question is that Po being knocked back sent him flying. Kim hasn't pushed off a cliff, Po literally fell right into him sent him off-balance, and sent him flying at once. This was like in the middle of the episode, he wasn't weakened.

He fought against Temutai. Many of the legends he hears or talks about are proven true (and Kim has proof of his might tattooed all over him), and if he fought against SO many of the other enemies but didn't try anything against Kim, that means something, and is intended to be this way by the writers. He was written to be invincible and he was portrayed as such throughout the entire episode except for the obvious part that couldn't be invincible, Temutai didn't get this treatment so stop comparing the two. They're not even remotely the same personality-wise.

Huh? Saying that many legends are true doesn't = the one being brought into discussion when it's contradicted from what I presented. He didn't try against Kim cause his legend literally represents him being invincible, while other legends are just them being really skilled in combat or having a special ability. I'm pretty sure the writers just put Kim in "yeah he's invincible" but is later contracted with feats and showings which > statements and intentions. Also, what does personality-wise have anything to do with a comparison not happening? Both were portrayed as characters as incredibly stronger than Po, both were tanks to all of Po's standard attacks, both outmatched Po in combat, and both were defeated by a dirty trick. The only difference being that Kim The Invincible had build-up, and didn't appear in the sequel.

And in various other episodes Po showcases his skill by reacting to things very casually. The writer's intent is clear with Kim, he outclasses Po.

Pretty sure him doing that do his enemies means he outclasses his enemies in speed while Kim is faster than them. But that doesn't make him > Po. The intention with the writer is that he's much stronger and extremely durable, speed was literally never present throughout the episode. He's just a good fighter.

I'm starting to think I'm getting nowhere since you're ignoring the fact of just how casual Kim's punch there was as well. I'm also getting tired of the seemingly condescending way to start replies with "But thiiis? But thaaat?" or similar questions as though I'm ignorant on the matter.

This is a fictional debate, people have perspectives "This and that" cause other people have perspectives, we're trying to find a middle ground not who's perspective is better.

There's nothing to prove he wouldn't have faced Temutai personally, but we have proof that he could fight him, whereas the writers made it clear in Kim's debut episode that if Shifu didn't try, it's because he was tough. If they had made him out to be invincible and didn't show him to be invincible to lead to a gag of Shifu easily defeating him, you'd be right, but we didn't see that so the writer's intent was for him to actually be unbeatable even for Shifu. Same with Po's punch, the intent was to make it clear Po's punches wouldn't have any effect on him.

You ignored where I stated the legend part. He fought him after learning that Po could defeat him twice, hence contradicting the legend that he could literally tear people apart by not even touching them. The legend with Kim is that he's invincible to everything, but if he figured out Po sent him flying by being knocked into him, I'm pretty sure he'd be more confident in fighting him. Shifu's perspective is that he can't defeat him so of course, he's not going to fight him. Which again WOG < Showings/feats. Which Po's punch was a simple one that didn't use much Kinetic energy, which shows later on when he get knocked into Kim at higher speeds hence a stronger KE.

None of those are even close to separating that section of the Great Wall.

Via scaling from Kim it would cause throughout his second fight he couldn't knock out a supposed 8-C with multiple punches while he's easily High 8-C. Which if you want to argue that it's not even close to the High 8-C feat it'd be an outlier since he'd be failing to incapcictate an 8-C with several high-speed punches.

He is, because if he didn't he would kill him quickly. That's the whole point about making him suffer, he holds back a bit.

No? Making someone suffer doesn't mean you hold back. Nothing in the episode implies he would've died quickly if he physically attacked him which again the High 8-C feat was done by him with minimal effort.

No, he had made him suffer enough. The way the tattoos are animated, it seems to imply he has one-shotted or easily bested other warriors, so he normally finishes quickly, hence why him making Po suffer didn't last that long. It wasn't "switching motives".

You just implied he finishes them off quickly when in the last statement you said "because if he didn't hold back he would kill them quickly". Also one-shotting warriors who are featless compared to the Dragon warrior doesn't say anything to me.

A huge attack doesn't "deplete your stamina" like a video game character, he was weakened which isn't the same as what you mean. Where in his innards he was damaged isn't necessary to know, we just know and it's obvious that he was much weaker afterwards. The kick to the head obviously doesn't mean that's a weakpoint, the writers had Po attack Kim to show his toughness, if they wanted to give him that weakpoint it would've been stated in the episode but it wasn't, so don't give Kim a weakness he doesn't have.

"Innards he was damaged isn't necessary to know" that thing exploded in his stomach and inflated like a ballon, of course that's going to deplete his stamina, after the kick he couldn't even get up and was possibly knocked unconscious. Throughout the episode nothing was shown durability for his head, everything was always to the torso and it was the clear intention for the writer for his invincible spot to be the torso while ignoring the other parts of the body. Another reason is he's a Hippo, he's going to bite you if you kick him in the face, and he was implied he was going to bite him right before he dropped the soup in his mouth, and in the legends he is shown to use his biting force.

"Main feat"? What the heck does that mean, he has many important feats. But you keep on yammering about a weakpoint in the end, yet, as I've said before, this is never implied and would've been brought up in the episode. We see that by falling off the cliff he landed on his back which also includes the back of his head given how he was getting up.

By main feat, the feat that brings him to High 8-C in the first place. The others feats are just supporting feats, that likely are just Tier 9. If falling from space is only Tier 9, I doubt it's really important for his main feat.

All parts of his body are equally tough, that's basic hippo badassery.

Nothing implies that other than real life. Which the writers didn't tackle, the whole intention was his torso being invincible as Po who normally hits to the face hits to his torso the entire episode.

What? The torso itself IS covered by his hide...

Typo on my end. I meant the Torso hide is likely more durable than his head, due to the fact his torso hide was focused on for the entire episode.

 

[GyroNutz]

I do want to cover LoA scaling in a separate thread since I do think it's a bit more complicated than people seem to think. But this thread has dragged on long enough as is.

Come on guys, can we drop the Kim the Invincible stuff for now? It's too low a feat to matter for PoD Po anyway, which is the focus of the thread.

I do wanna say that I think Po should scale to the meteor pre-amp, the feat was done by Black Tortoise when he had a similar chi to Po’s and nothing implied Black Tortoise was amped there.

Po has the Hero's Chi, which is pretty different from Black Tortoise's. Also remember that Jindiao in his vulture body could take attacks from Po's chi, whereas the four constellations could harm and stalemate (albeit at the cost of their own lives) Jindiao in his dragon form, who possesses an infinite amount of chi. As further proof, when Po returned from the Spirit Realm with his wellspring amp + Hero's Chi regained, he was unable to harm Jindiao and was forced to remove Jindiao's soul + seal it to beat him with the help of all the other villagers who received the same amp.

Basically, Black Tortoise is around 1/4 of dragon form Jindiao's power, whereas Po is far, far less than that when not in the Spirit Realm + amped.

Actually my "Revised Calculation 2" acknowledges that the clash did blow up some petals and fallen leaves and is not just illumination.

Posting this again. There's a distinct change in cloud pattern before and after the feat.

I am not sure if we should really separate the TV series and movie versions into different continuities.

What do the rest of you think?

While I do have other issues with Jasonsith's suggestions (for instance, Hero's Chi is from Legends of Awesomeness), the main one is that Legends of Awesomeness is, in fact, canon to the movies. The only canonicity issue that arises from it is chi - in Kung Fu Panda 3, Po asks what chi is despite using it in LoA. This is likely PIS in order to introduce the concept of chi to the audience. LoA aside, several moves that Po has used or seen prior to this (notably, the Wuxi Finger Hold which disperses the victim's chi) have something to do with chi, and it's hard to believe that a diehard kung fu fan like Po wouldn't know something as ubiquitous as chi. As others have mentioned, Legends of Awesomeness makes reference of several events from the first two movies, though this necessarily doesn't make it canon to those.

As for LoA being canon, this link and this link prove that it is canon. I was planning to show these during the CRT I had planned, but oh well.

From the first, LoA is stated to be "a continuation of the first movie.", and the second movie is stated to be "not unlike a very long, super-deluxe 3-D version of one of our episodes". It also states that the animators "work with talented friends like Peter... and all of the talented people at DreamWorks Animation.", showing that the show is directly influenced by Dreamworks.

From the second, a quote from Bill Damaschke, Chief Creative Officer, DreamWorks Animation: "The awesome combination of hilarious comedy, non-stop action and beautiful story-telling is... also why we are thrilled to take our beloved franchise in exciting new directions together with Nickelodeon on Legends of Awesomeness".

So it's stated to be a continuation of the movies, co-produced by Dreamworks and the chief creative officer of Dreamworks directly states that the TV show is part of the Kung Fu Panda franchise. This is clear evidence that the LoA TV show is canon to the movies.

Also, just something to ask in general. How come Kung Fu Panda 2 Po is listed as far stronger than his KFP1 part? In KFP2, Po stated "I just learned Kung Fu" so it implies it barely happens after Kung Fu Panda.

The Kung Fu Panda holiday special occurs between KFP1 and KFP2, which obviously happens around winter time, likely in December. Then in KFP2, Boss Wolf states that it's halfway through the year, meaning that there's at least 7 months between KFP1 and KFP2, plus the time between KFP1 and the holiday special since it clearly wasn't winter when KFP1 occurred.

 

[Kyleb79]

The Kung Fu Panda holiday special occurs between KFP1 and KFP2, which obviously happens around winter time, likely in December. Then in KFP2, Boss Wolf states that it's halfway through the year, meaning that there's at least 7 months between KFP1 and KFP2, plus the time between KFP1 and the holiday special since it clearly wasn't winter when KFP1 occurred.

Alright, that makes sense. Though I don't know why it says Po scales "Far above" his KFP1 self, I can understand why in skill due to the timeframe. Though AP, I dunno. Even bandits can harm Post KFP2 Po, and even Apple Cart Duck a civilian can send Po knocking back in LOA.

 

[GyroNutz]

Alright, that makes sense. Though I don't know why it says Po scales "Far above" his KFP1 self, I can understand why in skill due to the timeframe. Though AP, I dunno. Even bandits can harm Post KFP2 Po, and even Apple Cart Duck a civilian can send Po knocking back in LOA.

I mean, Po pretty consistently stomps bandits and even Furious Five members throughout LoA. And even at his weakest in LoA, he should scale above the apple cart duck. LoA is pretty PIS heavy, so weird low ends like those can be common.

Between KFP1 and KFP2, I'd say "Superior to his KFP1 self" is a better justification, since to my knowledge, the gap between those Pos is unquantifiable. I'll elaborate more on LoA scaling in the next thread I'm planning though.

 

[Kyleb79]

I mean, Po pretty consistently stomps bandits and even Furious Five members throughout LoA. And even at his weakest in LoA, he should scale above the apple cart duck. LoA is pretty PIS heavy, so weird low ends like those can be common.

Between KFP1 and KFP2, I'd say "Superior to his KFP1 self" is a better justification, since to my knowledge, the gap between those Pos is unquantifiable. I'll elaborate more on LoA scaling in the next thread I'm planning though.

Yeah, that makes sense. I always remembered LoA being pretty inconsistent. Po is an extremely knowledgeable person on Kung Fu, he has stated the Furious Five are some of the best warriors in all of China but are outclassed by newly introduced characters in LoA. The movies seem to be far more consistent.

 

[JJSliderman]

Po has the Hero's Chi, which is pretty different from Black Tortoise's. Also remember that Jindiao in his vulture body could take attacks from Po's chi, whereas the four constellations could harm and stalemate (albeit at the cost of their own lives) Jindiao in his dragon form, who possesses an infinite amount of chi. As further proof, when Po returned from the Spirit Realm with his wellspring amp + Hero's Chi regained, he was unable to harm Jindiao and was forced to remove Jindiao's soul + seal it to beat him with the help of all the other villagers who received the same amp.

Basically, Black Tortoise is around 1/4 of dragon form Jindiao's power, whereas Po is far, far less than that when not in the Spirit Realm + amped.

I feel like this is sort of misleading. In the flashback, we see that the Four Constellations are notably inferior to Dragon Jindiao even as a unit, given that the Spirit Urn was created so they wouldn’t have to physically fight Jindiao. Trying to compare Po’s performance to the constellations also isn’t fair, given that the Dragon Jindiao Po fought was amplified by the energy from the Wellspring, and he still arguably did comparable work compared to Black Tortoise

Vulture Jindiao was also definitely far weaker than Hero chi Po, given that he could not take Po’s chi by force and could only take it by channeling it through Nu Hai, who had Hero Chi very similar in potency to Po’s. The constellation chi is basically another form of Hero chi, so to say that Black Tortoise’s is significantly above Po’s makes little sense to me.

 

[Kyleb79]

Also, I need to point something out. In KFP3, Po, The Furious Five, and Shifu are capable of fighting Jade Warriors who can harm Po several times who is 8-B in durability.

 

[GyroNutz]

I feel like this is sort of misleading. In the flashback, we see that the Four Constellations are notably inferior to Dragon Jindiao even as a unit, given that the Spirit Urn was created so they wouldn’t have to physically fight Jindiao. Trying to compare Po’s performance to the constellations also isn’t fair, given that the Dragon Jindiao Po fought was amplified by the energy from the Wellspring, and he still arguably did comparable work compared to Black Tortoise

Vulture Jindiao was also definitely far weaker than Hero chi Po, given that he could not take Po’s chi by force and could only take it by channeling it through Nu Hai, who had Hero Chi very similar in potency to Po’s. The constellation chi is basically another form of Hero chi, so to say that Black Tortoise’s is significantly above Po’s makes little sense to me.

Yeah they're inferior, but they still stalemated Jindiao together, and likely would have won if Bunnidharma gave them the spirit urn in time. Also remember that before fighting Jindiao in the Spirit Realm, the panda kids were given all the chi of the four constellations and could still harm him with combined attacks - that's with the energy from the Wellspring.

I honestly can't remember if the chi of the four constellations is called Hero's Chi in the show. And I don't think the gap between Jindiao and Hero's Chi Po is that wide given that, again, Jindiao survived attacks from Po's Hero's Chi without any notable injuries. So I don't see why Po should be as powerful as Black Tortoise, aside from having "similar" origins of their chi.

EDIT: Yeah it is called Hero's Chi in the show, my bad.

Also, I need to point something out. In KFP3, Po, The Furious Five, and Shifu are capable of fighting Jade Warriors who can harm Po several times who is 8-B in durability.

Here's the fight with Po and the jombies. Po doesn't take the fight seriously, choosing to geek out instead of fighting back when Master Porcupine chokes him out. He doesn't get harmed by their attacks, only knocked off balance, like when he gets hit by the badger twins' double gong technique and just laughs it off.

 

[Kyleb79]

Here's the fight with Po and the jombies. Po doesn't take the fight seriously, choosing to geek out instead of fighting back when Master Porcupine chokes him out. He doesn't get harmed by their attacks, only knocked off balance, like when he gets hit by the badger twins' double gong technique and just laughs it off.

It's hard to see but you can actually see Po get hit, the fight is really fast.

Porcupine kicks Po sends him flying into the air and kicks him flying down at high speeds.

Po is hit by the double gong technique to which he screams "Ow" implying he got hurt, though the mood he is in, shrugs it off.

Porcupine kicks Po in the face hard enough to make him slightly stagger by knocking his head back.

Porcupine charges at Po sending him flying and through a roof.

 

[JJSliderman]

Actually ig there is a fair point, since the Wellspring wasn’t covered while Black Tortoise did the feat.
But at the same time, the “amp” for Po came after his Hero Chi was already stolen, so he was basically a normal villager until he got to the SR anyway.
At the very least I think Po should scale to the meteor feat in base in the mortal realm after the Wellspring was uncovered.

Also the Wellspring thing might be irrelevant given S2’s ending.

 

[Antvasima]

So, given Gyro's points, I suppose that separating the movies from the TV show is not necessary?

 

[Kyleb79]

So, given Gyro's points, I suppose that separating the movies from the TV show is not necessary?

Yes, as he proved they are canon to each other. Though there are some inconsistencies in the show that Gyro is likely going to point out.

 

[GyroNutz]

The Jombies hit Po but their attacks don't actually seem to harm him. I really don't think the Jombies, or the Furious Five/Shifu for that matter, should be anywhere in the ballpark of Kai's AP.

So, given Gyro's points, I suppose that separating the movies from the TV show is not necessary?

The movies + Legends of Awesomeness are all definitely canon. Paws of Destiny is a bit more dubious, but we have a separate profile for that series already.

 

[Kyleb79]

The Jombies hit Po but their attacks don't actually seem to harm him. I really don't think the Jombies, or the Furious Five/Shifu for that matter, should be anywhere in the ballpark of Kai's AP.

To be fair they send Po went their attacks and you can hear him grunt, which indicates he gets hurt. In terms of comparing to Kai, Kai is actually massively above Po's durability even if we scale them to 8-B. I'll explain their higher end feats.

Porcupine kicks Po sends him flying into the air and kicks him flying down at high speeds (He is knocked say 4 meters into the sky and down flying with a minimum charge of say 4 meters)

Porcupine charges at Po sending him flying and through a roof (At least say 7 meters, at best 10 meters flying with a full charge)

Now let's compare the Jade Zombies to Kai's showings against Po.

Kai headbutts Po say a meter of a charge and KE and sends him flying (Roughly around 10 meters and the impact sends him sliding down the ice say another 7 meters, already far more impressive than Porcupine charging at full speeds of KE with a headbutt)

While Po is in the air Kai does a Chi kick so hard it sends him flying an extremely far distance which exhausts Po so bad that he isn't able to get up or fight Kai and requires him to recover while Kai is basically taunting him (Visually seems at least 100s of meters, which is immensely above anything anyone did to Po throughout LoA and the Movies)

Kai then gets say a 4 meter run up and headbutts Po an extremely far distance once again without the need of a Chi attack (Seems like 70 meters potentially over 100, which outranks any feat done by anyone in LoA and the Movies once again)

When pulling in Po at high speeds he punches Po with a Chi punch so hard it punches him through an extremely large boulder which gave Po the 8-B feat and this weakened Po enough that he couldn't get out of his chains (This sent him like 50+ meters back and it's at the very least because there was a huge boulder in the way)

Weakened Shifu heavily with a casual hit with his blade.

A shockwave of his blade near them sent Tigress and Shifu flying made Tigress slightly stagger for hours and Shifu was left defenseless but still conscious (Say about 20 meters)

In slow-motion, you can see Shifu kicks Kai to the face which barely fazes him and only makes him twitch a bit.

So to say the least. If the 8-B upgrade happens, they won't be in the same ballpark. Like Po's durability, they'll just back scale far from him but enough to at least not be one-shot.

 

[JJSliderman]

If we are considering LoA canon then the last chronological episode has Po soloing the Five in a few seconds.

So I’d say the Five could scale to a casual Po, but not a bloodlusted one.

 

[Kyleb79]

If we are considering LoA canon then the last chronological episode has Po soloing the Five in a few seconds.

So I’d say the Five could scale to a casual Po, but not a bloodlusted one.

Physically they should at least scale in some way regardless. Even Shifu could put a fight against Po in that episode while going on a defensive the entire time (The entire fight basically mirrored Shifu vs Tai Lung exactly and it was intentional)

 

[JJSliderman]

The show fairly consistently demonstrates that when Po goes all out he can curbstomp the Five with low difficulty so, the scaling is a bit questionable.

 

[Kyleb79]

The show fairly consistently demonstrates that when Po goes all out he can curbstomp the Five with low difficulty so, the scaling is a bit questionable.

That's due to skill, not AP. Po has trained with the Five several times so that's why Po struggles against enemies that the Five can beat (As well as ABC logic technically shouldn't be present due to fighting styles).

 

[GyroNutz]

Logically speaking, you don't need comparable AP to knock someone back when they're not on guard, you just need enough AP to overcome their natural weight. Kicking someone of Po's weight into the sky is probably a 9-B feat (not saying the Jombies are 9-B), and while he does grunt, you can see immediately after the hits that he's taken no damage and isn't taking the Jombies seriously.

I want to cover LoA and other scaling in a separate thread, but basically yeah, Po is massively above the Five in skill and AP.

 

[JJSliderman]

Tai Lung is an example of beating the Five with skill.
With Po, the Five just all attack him at the same time in the last episode and he dispatches them in seconds.
Kind of like how Jindiao did to the Constellations in the flashback.

 

[Kyleb79]

Logically speaking, you don't need comparable AP to knock someone back when they're not on guard, you just need enough AP to overcome their natural weight. Kicking someone of Po's weight into the sky is probably a 9-B feat (not saying the Jombies are 9-B), and while he does grunt, you can see immediately after the hits that he's taken no damage and isn't taking the Jombies seriously.

Wait really? We don't consider sending someone flying on their level if it's a physical attack? It's likely Po shrugging off anything that hurt him, though since we don't consider someone sending the other flying on their level then by our terms they aren't 8-B then I guess it is what it is.

 

[Kyleb79]

Tai Lung is an example of beating the Five with skill.
With Po, the Five just all attack him at the same time in the last episode and he dispatches them in seconds.
Kind of like how Jindiao did to the Constellations in the flashback.

I'd argue the Five had an upper hand on Tai Lung even individually at a time they seemed to be getting hits on him, and together they tied him up and implied he was incapacitated/knocked out for a few seconds. Which Tai Lung then resorted to using pressure point attacks when they were all at the edge of a cliff and couldn't go anywhere. Though granted, throughout the entire fight they were trying to balance on a bridge so no one really had even ground. Tai Lung could probably take them all on since Shifu countered every one of the Furious Five's attacks and nitpicked every flaw at the start of the movie.

 

[GyroNutz]

Wait really? We don't consider sending someone flying on thier level if it's a physical attack? It's likely Po shrugging off anything that hurt him, though since we don't consider someone sending the other flying on their level then by our terms they aren't 8-B then I guess it is what it is.

Depends on the context, but since Po wasn't on-guard and didn't seem fazed by it it's only logical that the Jombies wouldn't scale.

 

[Kyleb79]

Depends on the context, but since Po wasn't on-guard and didn't seem fazed by it it's only logical that the Jombies wouldn't scale.

I'd argue Po was hurt slightly by it, telling by the grunt and intention, though I'm guessing we only scale depending on if they were actually harmed visually.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Kyleb79]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

8-B seems unimportant at the moment for the KFP3 cast except Po's durability, since it's basically loosed on being slightly hurt and grunting from attacks. So no 8-B upgrade at the moment.

I'd argue Po in LoA's durability could scale from Kim the Invincible's punches who is High 8-C which we saw in the battle him taking the punches, though I haven't got to a middle ground with the guy.

And Gyro is going to make a thread on LoA's and cover more there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for the summary.

 

[Jasonsith]

Also:

Paws of Destiny (Post-Wellspring amp)
Attack Potency:
At least City Block level (Immensely stronger than before after being amped by the Wellspring, Po's Wuxi Finger Hold was able to part the clouds covering the Panda Village, even without Po's Hero's Chi); at least City level, possibly Country level+ in the Spirit Realm (Po fought evenly with Jindiao in his true form, who tanked a combination attacks from the four constellations, each of whom should be individually comparable to the chi of Master Black Tortoise, who could stop a meteor from hitting the Earth while the actual size of the meteor is debatable), possibly far higher (Jindiao had absorbed the power of the Wellspring, which was described as "endless" as well as the source of all light in the universe)
Speed:
At least Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed and reactions. At least Subsonic with High Hypersonic combat speed and reactions in the Spirit Realm (comparable to Master Black Tortoise)

While we "meet the middle" and settled in determining the meteor deflecting feat we are "in the middle" and undecided on whether this feat yield can actually stretch to the characters' level outside spirit realm.

 

[Kyleb79]

Wait. Do we consider characters stronger in the Spirit Realm? Or does it just apply to Po in Paws of Destiny? I haven't watched Paws of Destiny.