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Because this thread ended up fizzling, I decided to make a new one.
The premise of this thread will be upgrading post-KFP3 chi-enhanced Po to 3-A in some capacity, and any characters who scale, along with potentially a speed upgrade.
Also credit to GyroNutz for helping with some of this information.
Before continuing, it’s important to establish that Legends of Awesomeness is canon to Paws of Destiny, as the character Ke-Pa that’s exclusive to Legends of Awesomeness is namedropped in Paws of Destiny (PoD Episode 8, 8:00). This is important, because the argument hinges on scaling Po to the Eternal Chord that was first established in Legends of Awesomeness.
I’ll also be referring to Legends of Awesomeness as LoA and Paws of Destiny as PoD from now on.
The Chord, as explained in Season 3 Episode 16 of LoA, was responsible for creating the universe (only spatially, however, as technically it already existed as a formless mass of chaos prior). It’s stated by the musical Kung Fu master that the Chord was created by using the 5 Elemental Tones, which eventually infused their power into the 5 Wu-Di instruments. (6:34)
As established in the episode and throughout the series, chi as a concept exists not only in all living things, but even within sound itself, as Shifu explicitly states that the Wu-Di instruments perform their feats by harnessing the chi energy of sound (LoA S3E16, 5:43). We later see this energy can also be used to attack with, using the art of musical Kung Fu (LoA S3 E16, 17:08), so sound’s chi energy can apply to attack potency.
In Paws of Destiny, a source of power known as the Wellspring is introduced, which is stated to be the source of ALL chi in the universe. (PoD E1, 13:11 and PoD E11, 0:42)
You can probably see where this is going, but yes, I’m arguing that the Wellspring gave the Eternal Chord the energy necessary to create the Kung Fu Panda universe. And since Po scales to Jindiao who absorbed the Wellspring’s power, Po should scale above the EC.
To address some counter arguments:
The Wellspring is only the source of all chi at the very beginning of creation and does not apply to the modern day.
This is irrelevant because we’re talking about the beginning of the universe. And while there were beings that existed near the beginning of the universe in the form of the Yaoguai, they were explicitly trying to prevent the forming of the universe, so it’s unlikely they would have contributed any chi. And since the Wellspring is the source of all chi, all the chi power could only have come from the Wellspring.
How could the Wellspring exist before the universe?
Jindiao clearly states that the Wellspring is “not of this world”, and will exist long after everyone else is gone (PoD E8, 11:19). As such, there is reason to believe the Wellspring existed before the universe as we know it in the series.
This is a huge outlier!
Actually, no. There are multiple statements that hint at the Wellspring being at this level.
In the episode “House of Flying Pandas”, Sun Wukong stated that the Wellspring was the source of all light and life in the universe (9:12). On the surface it seems like a metaphor, but with the context of the Wellspring providing energy to the Eternal Chord, the Wellspring creating all the stars in the universe (thus providing all light to the universe), makes sense.
Zhizhu, the guardian of the Wellspring, also stated that the Wellspring was an “endless font of power”. (PoD E11, 0:42)
Po’s dad, one of the pandas (the species who have the deepest connection to chi in the verse), describes the Wellspring as the “ultimate force for good in the universe” (PoD Episode 12, 0:44). The Eternal Chord in this case would count as a force for good, as it’s directly opposed to the Anti-Chord trying to destroy the universe and bring darkness, and also exists within the “universe”, as it merely reshaped an already existing “universe” into the one we see throughout the series. Jindiao also described it as the “ultimate source of energy in the universe”. (PoD Episode 8, 10:51)
Finally, Masters Blue Dragon and White Tiger state that “The Spirit Realm has no true borders and is a place of great power, it would take an even greater power to find a way out.” (PoD Episode 12, 8:34 and PoD Episode 12, 18:12). Again, this could normally just be passed off as a feat of dimensional travel, but if the power of the Wellspring has the power to create the universe with only a portion of its chi energy, and is stated to be a source of endless power, and was absorbed by Jindiao, then contextually it would make sense that Jindiao is literally overpowering the energy of the Spirit Realm universe in order to break out of it, since the way Jindiao escapes is by breaking a hole through the realm (PoD episode 13, 1:07), as opposed to characters like Kai that just warped out. The masters even state that while breaking out of the realm physically has never been done, with the power Jindiao wielded after absorbing the Wellspring, it was possible. (PoD Episode 12, 18:00)
So the Wellspring has multiple avenues to be universal.
As for the speed aspect, it’s shown throughout the series that having a greater chi power also increases your level of speed. When Po unlocked Hero’s Chi against Ke-Pa, he used it to amp his speed and run up the Jade Palace steps in seconds (LoA “Enter the Dragon”, 43:16), and when Po unlocked chi mastery against Kai, his chi power becoming far superior to Kai’s, he began blitzing around Kai easily, not allowing the latter to get any hits in.
Since Po’s chi power scales comparably to the Wellspring, his chi power should also scale comparably to the Eternal Chord, and since the Eternal Chord uses the chi energy of sound to do all its feats, Po has an avenue to scale to the speed at which the Chord created the universe. Using the timeframe present in the flashback shown in S3E16, it would easily reach MFTL+ speed.
This is also semi-consistent with how, when Po unlocked his dragon form in the Spirit Realm, he was capable of tracking Jindiao down within the depths of the Spirit Realm, which is an entire universe.
This would at least scale to post-Wellspring absorption Jindiao, Dragon form Po, and debatably base Po enhanced by chi within Paws of Destiny, as he was shown capable of fighting the White Bone Demon in the second half of S1 (who was also amped by the Wellspring) in his base form, and staggered it with his chi blasts. (PoD E25, 19:24). The latter is open to discussion though.
Edit: I also realized the Shuyong Tree, which can create time with its fruit according to Shifu, existed before the beginning of time and will exist after it ends (LoA “A Stitch in Time” 4:13), is also a living being and potentially also fueled by chi, as Shifu established chi exists within plants at the beginning of KFP3 by making a flower grow with it. Moreover, KFP3 also establishes that even if someone isn’t an outright user of chi, they still rely on chi for their power level, since a higher chi leads to a higher power level and Kai got stronger by absorbing the chi of others. Meaning that the Wellspring may have enough power to create both space and time, bumping it to Low 2-C.
Oogway should also scale with the Hero’s Chi, as it’s the exact same chi that Po uses, so it should reasonably be at a similar power level.
Agree: [1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, Arceus0x, SuperStar, Kroneii1, LuffyRuffy46307, ShakeResounding, ShionAH, Remus1998, Hunterzillas, DarkDragonMedeus, LephyrTheRevanchist] (with 3-A for Po)
Low 2-C MFTL+ for Po: DDM, LtR, Ped2018, SeiyaRyuSeiKen (possibly)
Prime Oogway addition & MFTL+ speed: Ped2018 (possibly)
The premise of this thread will be upgrading post-KFP3 chi-enhanced Po to 3-A in some capacity, and any characters who scale, along with potentially a speed upgrade.
Also credit to GyroNutz for helping with some of this information.
Before continuing, it’s important to establish that Legends of Awesomeness is canon to Paws of Destiny, as the character Ke-Pa that’s exclusive to Legends of Awesomeness is namedropped in Paws of Destiny (PoD Episode 8, 8:00). This is important, because the argument hinges on scaling Po to the Eternal Chord that was first established in Legends of Awesomeness.
I’ll also be referring to Legends of Awesomeness as LoA and Paws of Destiny as PoD from now on.
The Chord, as explained in Season 3 Episode 16 of LoA, was responsible for creating the universe (only spatially, however, as technically it already existed as a formless mass of chaos prior). It’s stated by the musical Kung Fu master that the Chord was created by using the 5 Elemental Tones, which eventually infused their power into the 5 Wu-Di instruments. (6:34)
As established in the episode and throughout the series, chi as a concept exists not only in all living things, but even within sound itself, as Shifu explicitly states that the Wu-Di instruments perform their feats by harnessing the chi energy of sound (LoA S3E16, 5:43). We later see this energy can also be used to attack with, using the art of musical Kung Fu (LoA S3 E16, 17:08), so sound’s chi energy can apply to attack potency.
In Paws of Destiny, a source of power known as the Wellspring is introduced, which is stated to be the source of ALL chi in the universe. (PoD E1, 13:11 and PoD E11, 0:42)
You can probably see where this is going, but yes, I’m arguing that the Wellspring gave the Eternal Chord the energy necessary to create the Kung Fu Panda universe. And since Po scales to Jindiao who absorbed the Wellspring’s power, Po should scale above the EC.
To address some counter arguments:
The Wellspring is only the source of all chi at the very beginning of creation and does not apply to the modern day.
This is irrelevant because we’re talking about the beginning of the universe. And while there were beings that existed near the beginning of the universe in the form of the Yaoguai, they were explicitly trying to prevent the forming of the universe, so it’s unlikely they would have contributed any chi. And since the Wellspring is the source of all chi, all the chi power could only have come from the Wellspring.
How could the Wellspring exist before the universe?
Jindiao clearly states that the Wellspring is “not of this world”, and will exist long after everyone else is gone (PoD E8, 11:19). As such, there is reason to believe the Wellspring existed before the universe as we know it in the series.
This is a huge outlier!
Actually, no. There are multiple statements that hint at the Wellspring being at this level.
In the episode “House of Flying Pandas”, Sun Wukong stated that the Wellspring was the source of all light and life in the universe (9:12). On the surface it seems like a metaphor, but with the context of the Wellspring providing energy to the Eternal Chord, the Wellspring creating all the stars in the universe (thus providing all light to the universe), makes sense.
Zhizhu, the guardian of the Wellspring, also stated that the Wellspring was an “endless font of power”. (PoD E11, 0:42)
Po’s dad, one of the pandas (the species who have the deepest connection to chi in the verse), describes the Wellspring as the “ultimate force for good in the universe” (PoD Episode 12, 0:44). The Eternal Chord in this case would count as a force for good, as it’s directly opposed to the Anti-Chord trying to destroy the universe and bring darkness, and also exists within the “universe”, as it merely reshaped an already existing “universe” into the one we see throughout the series. Jindiao also described it as the “ultimate source of energy in the universe”. (PoD Episode 8, 10:51)
Finally, Masters Blue Dragon and White Tiger state that “The Spirit Realm has no true borders and is a place of great power, it would take an even greater power to find a way out.” (PoD Episode 12, 8:34 and PoD Episode 12, 18:12). Again, this could normally just be passed off as a feat of dimensional travel, but if the power of the Wellspring has the power to create the universe with only a portion of its chi energy, and is stated to be a source of endless power, and was absorbed by Jindiao, then contextually it would make sense that Jindiao is literally overpowering the energy of the Spirit Realm universe in order to break out of it, since the way Jindiao escapes is by breaking a hole through the realm (PoD episode 13, 1:07), as opposed to characters like Kai that just warped out. The masters even state that while breaking out of the realm physically has never been done, with the power Jindiao wielded after absorbing the Wellspring, it was possible. (PoD Episode 12, 18:00)
So the Wellspring has multiple avenues to be universal.
As for the speed aspect, it’s shown throughout the series that having a greater chi power also increases your level of speed. When Po unlocked Hero’s Chi against Ke-Pa, he used it to amp his speed and run up the Jade Palace steps in seconds (LoA “Enter the Dragon”, 43:16), and when Po unlocked chi mastery against Kai, his chi power becoming far superior to Kai’s, he began blitzing around Kai easily, not allowing the latter to get any hits in.
Since Po’s chi power scales comparably to the Wellspring, his chi power should also scale comparably to the Eternal Chord, and since the Eternal Chord uses the chi energy of sound to do all its feats, Po has an avenue to scale to the speed at which the Chord created the universe. Using the timeframe present in the flashback shown in S3E16, it would easily reach MFTL+ speed.
This is also semi-consistent with how, when Po unlocked his dragon form in the Spirit Realm, he was capable of tracking Jindiao down within the depths of the Spirit Realm, which is an entire universe.
This would at least scale to post-Wellspring absorption Jindiao, Dragon form Po, and debatably base Po enhanced by chi within Paws of Destiny, as he was shown capable of fighting the White Bone Demon in the second half of S1 (who was also amped by the Wellspring) in his base form, and staggered it with his chi blasts. (PoD E25, 19:24). The latter is open to discussion though.
Edit: I also realized the Shuyong Tree, which can create time with its fruit according to Shifu, existed before the beginning of time and will exist after it ends (LoA “A Stitch in Time” 4:13), is also a living being and potentially also fueled by chi, as Shifu established chi exists within plants at the beginning of KFP3 by making a flower grow with it. Moreover, KFP3 also establishes that even if someone isn’t an outright user of chi, they still rely on chi for their power level, since a higher chi leads to a higher power level and Kai got stronger by absorbing the chi of others. Meaning that the Wellspring may have enough power to create both space and time, bumping it to Low 2-C.
Oogway should also scale with the Hero’s Chi, as it’s the exact same chi that Po uses, so it should reasonably be at a similar power level.
Agree: [1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, Arceus0x, SuperStar, Kroneii1, LuffyRuffy46307, ShakeResounding, ShionAH, Remus1998, Hunterzillas, DarkDragonMedeus, LephyrTheRevanchist] (with 3-A for Po)
Low 2-C MFTL+ for Po: DDM, LtR, Ped2018, SeiyaRyuSeiKen (possibly)
Prime Oogway addition & MFTL+ speed: Ped2018 (possibly)
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