Dragon Quest Revival Discussion Thread

[Winter]

"Beyond space and time" just means literally nothing on its own, it isn't immeasurable and is barely support for it.

Also, just to note, Estark’s jap description is different. It says something like “Evil God existing without being affected by space and time” or something like that.

 

[Winter]

I hate to keep asking for calcs, but is there a way to calculate the strength to break a barrel? Most characters can do this and would give a calculable tier other than scaling off of weapons. The mountain leveling feat would also need calced.

Also, can some people eval this to see if it’s able to be used? This is at the very least for 2-C tier, with a huge maybe for 2-B. Armor said he was neutral, so I haven’t gotten really anybody else’s opinion

It’s on his current profile but here’s the link
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.ne...QNX65nh.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160616143134
There’s also this

Yea sure, I can just summarize the point. Also yea, tag a few people too, some staff input would be neat.

Epic Summary:

So the scan says something along the lines of “Mortamor absorbing all other worlds within his own.” The absorbing part isn’t necessarily what’s 2-B since you can’t quantify how many he absorbs at once, but what is 2-B with the feat is the capability to stabilize those worlds. At the absolute minimum, the stabilization is 2-C (since the Dream World and Real World were directly under threat to be absorbed into his world). Since his plan is to absorb all worlds, it’s very likely he’d be able to stabilize those too. Keep in mind, this is HIS plan, so Mortamor knowing his capabilities should very well be capable of stabilizing a realm that big after absorbing all of the other worlds. I see a likely, if not a full out 2-B rating. The cosmology is countless 2-B in size, so he would scale to this.

 

[Armorchompy]

I hate to keep asking for calcs, but is there a way to calculate the strength to break a barrel? Most characters can do this and would give a calculable tier other than scaling off of weapons. The mountain leveling feat would also need calced.

there's a calc, can be redone if they're of unusual size but given that most games have stylized and not to scale graphics i think it's good to use

 

[Winter]

there's a calc, can be redone if they're of unusual size but given that most games have stylized and not to scale graphics i think it's good to use

Yea, that works.

 

[Winter]

there's a calc, can be redone if they're of unusual size but given that most games have stylized and not to scale graphics i think it's good to use

You think you’ll be able to calc the mountain leveling feat for the troll?

 

[Armorchompy]

Which one is that?

 

[Winter]

Which one is that?

The one from its DQ9 description

Troll - Dragon Quest Wiki

dragon-quest.org

“These enormous enemies' attacks are enough to level mountains”

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, no need for a calc, Low 7-B

 

[Winter]

Oh, no need for a calc, Low 7-B

Wouldn’t it be different since it’s being leveled rather then being fragmented or destroyed?

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd generally assume that to mean fragmented.

 

[Winter]

I'd generally assume that to mean fragmented.

Ok

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

So it seems regular enemies will be 9-B in the early game, uptp Low 7-B in the mid game and possibly upto 4-A in the end to post game?

Good RPG power-creep.

 

[Winter]

So it seems regular enemies will be 9-B in the early game, uptp Low 7-B in the mid game and possibly upto 4-A in the end to post game?

Good RPG power-creep.

Minus the 4-A, since I think the feats are 4-C. Idk how the 4-B DQ10 monsters scales to the others.

The first 3 heroes and their allies will probably scale to an “At Least” Low 7-B due to superiority to the monsters given they would be treated as the game’s fodder. Everyone else will probably scale to High 6-A via the Magma Staff with the exception of the DQ11 protags (They doesn’t get it until most of the way through Act 2 and he becomes Tier 2 in the same Act, so it wouldn’t make sense. They’d scale to the Low 7-B, with maybe a higher rating if making storms is higher than mountain destruction since Krystalinda can do this very casually) and possibly the DQ8 cast if creating the Magma Staff as a casual weapon demotes it from its power in the Zenith trilogy. If that’s the case, the destruction of Neos would need calculated

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Oh, I was talking about Dai having things that could be implemented in the games.

No, I’m talking about how his Frizz is way stronger than Kafrizz.

Oh, I thought you meant as in Dai implementing stuff from the games (which would be obvious).

Oh okay got it, and I think that's just a matter of good ol' anime/manga style power gaps (Vearns Frizz being as Powerful as Pre-Grand Sorcerer Popp's Kafrizz).

 

[Winter]

I’m having slight trouble figuring out where Baramos would scale. He’s fought pretty late in the game and resurrected to fight an end game party, but I’m not sure if the resurrected versions would scale to the original

 

[Winter]

Oh, I thought you meant as in Dai implementing stuff from the games (which would be obvious).

Oh okay got it, and I think that's just a matter of good ol' anime/manga style power gaps (Vearns Frizz being as Powerful as Pre-Grand Sorcerer Popp's Kafrizz).

I see

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I’m having slight trouble figuring out where Baramos would scale. He’s fought pretty late in the game and resurrected to fight an end game party, but I’m not sure if the resurrected versions would scale to the original

Well, if he's just revived and that's it, then I would assume he's the same as before. Unless there's something that suggests him being different than before, then there's no real reason for him to have lost or gained any power.

 

[Winter]

Well, if he's just revived and that's it, then I would assume he's the same as before. Unless there's something that suggests him being different than before, then there's no real reason for him to have lost or gained any power.

I mean, he’s revived as “Soul of Baramos” and “Bones of Baramos” though the latter isn’t his actual bones (merely off of design since Baramos doesn’t have wings), so I’m not sure if his “soul” would be comparable to the Original

 

[Winter]

So, along with the spell list, we also need to make an ability list and an exclusive power list (basically the hax and powers excluding in-game spells and abilities). This way, it’s easy for profile creation. I’m probably gonna start those shortly (and maybe put scans)

 

[Winter]

Ability List:


Also, when actually applying these to the profiles, use the wiki definitions rather than the definitions I list, those are just to list why it is those powers. Use those for the notable abilities section. I personally recommend using dragon-quest.org for this since the fandom version lacks a lot. Tact exclusive abilities are not shown since the game has tons of inconsistencies with the main canon (monsters can talk and are displayed as casual people, even the very aggressive and non-speaking monsters, when more often than not, they attack at first sight and are aggressive. Final bosses also show this and contradict their canon personalities. Certain abilities like Leader Perks are also shown, which are pretty exclusive to this game and not shown anywhere else)

Bonus Damage (aka attacks that deal extra damage over standard physical blows):

Blade of Ultimate Power - Energy Manipulation, Weapon Creation, and Durability Negation (Creates a blade of energy to strike the foe. The attack deals fixed damage, thus negates durability. This used to bypass Metal Slime’s physiology, but was removed)

Bite - Natural Weaponry (Self explanatory)

Blind Man’s Biff - None

Clap Trap - None

Double Edged Slash - None

Double Up - Limited Statistics Amplification and Self-Statistics Reduction (Varies between games, but more consistently doubles the user’s attack power for a slight decrease in defense. Isn’t damage boost since it isn’t an actual attack in games post-DQ6, which is the only game that has it as an attack)

Hip Drop - None

Imperial Strike - None

Jump Strike - None

Knuckle Sandwich - None

Victimizer - Damage Boost (Deals 6x damage on opponents who are poisoned or paralyzed)

Persecutter - Damage Boost (Deals 6x damage on opponents who are sleeping or confused)

Critical Hit Skills:

Critical Claim - Energy Manipulation and Minor Probability Manipulation (The user surrounds their fist in energy/creates a sword of energy in DQ9 variant to hit the opponent. The attack is a guaranteed critical hit and cannot miss)

Hatchet Man - Minor Probability Manipulation (Guarantees a critical hit if the attack lands. Often misses)

Thunder Thrust - Minor Probability Manipulation and Electricity Manipulation (Guarantees a critical hit if the attack lands. Often misses)

Dance Skills:

Sultry Dance - Broadway Force (Forces the opponent into a dance)

Death Dance - Death Manipulation (Does a dance that can insta kill enemies)

Butterfly Bop - Energy Projection and Animal Manipulation (Summons butterflies that fire lasers. Yes, that’s literally what it does)

Fuddle Dance - Mind Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement (Attempts to confuse all enemies)

Underpants Dance - Status Effect Inducement (Has a chance to startle all enemies)

Breath Skills:

Fire Breath - Breath Attack and Fire Manipulation (A line of fire breath skills with each being more powerful than the last)

Cool Breath - Breath Attack and Ice Manipulation (A line of ice breath skills with each being more powerful than the last)

Hellfire - Breath Attack and Fire Manipulation / Magic and Fire Manipulation (Varies between appearances, depicted as a spell when used by Maribel, but is commonly used as the most powerful fire breath used by final bosses)

Status Abilities:

Dazzleflash - Light Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement, Sense Manipulation, and Illusion Creation (Creates a flash of light that bedazzles all enemies)

Starstrike - Light Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement, Sense Manipulation, and Illusion Creation (Attacks with a whip, generating blinding lights that bedazzle the enemy)

Hypnowhip - Mind Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement (Attacks with a whip, befuddling enemies)

Pink Pirouette - Plant Manipulation, Air Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Status Effect Inducement (Generates a whirlwind of rose petals, which can befuddle enemies)

That’s Amore - Energy Projection, Mind Manipulation, and Status Effect Inducement (Sends a heart shaped bullet, which can befuddle an enemy)

Femme Fatale - Energy Projection, Healing, Status Effect Inducement, and Sleep Manipulation (Sends out a barrage of heart shaped bullets that heal the user a small amount of the damage done. Has a small chance of making opponents fall asleep)

Blow Kiss - Energy Projection, Status Effect Inducement, and Empathetic Manipulation (Attempts to blow a heart shaped bullet that can enthrall the enemy (basically stuns them). Not sure if this makes them attack allies or not like other charm based skills)

Sexy Beam - Energy Projection, Empathic Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Status Effect Inducement (Fire a heart shaped beam at the target that has a chance to enthrall them. Can confuse opponents in 8, and charm them in 10)

Parallax - Fire Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement, and Paralysis Inducement (Sends a fiery skull at the opponent that can cause paralysis)

Defensive/Ironwall Abilities:

Defending Champion - Damage Reduction (Reduces damage by 90%. Pretty much makes god tier enemy attacks weak sauce, though its gonna be pretty useless in vs matches due to tier 2 AP gaps)

Forberance - Damage Transferal (Kinda confusing since it's mostly depicted by the user literally taking attacks for allies but when you consider group based attacks and big sauce AOE's like magic burst and kaboom that cant really be stopped, it makes sense.)

Lifeboat - Damage Reduction (Nulls all damage done to the party. Possibly the most broken and underused ability in the series. This only appears in 7 so using them with all vocations is gonna be pretty broken)


Back Atcha - Attack Reflection (Redirects attacks to a random enemy)

Insta-Kill Abilities:

Fissure - Earth Manipulation and Air Manipulation (Creates a fissure that sucks enemies into it. Works on flying enemies at an unknown height)

Assassians Stab - Death Manipulation (Has a chance to instantly kill enemy. Unaffected by resistance to whack spells)


More is to be added in the future

 

[Winter]

Exclusive Abilities:

These are powers exclusive to characters. Usually not shown as specific skills in the game, and are just miscellaneous powers they have. This includes several characters’ soul manipulation, Luminary powers, accelerated development shown by characters, etc. These will be applied to the profiles with their description and will have scans in the near future. For now, I’m just listing them.

Dragonlord

Animal Manipulation or Social Influencing (Is able to command monsters. Led an army to destroy Damdara and presumably did the same to steal the Sphere of Light)

Likely Soul Manipulation (All dark lords and demons are implied to have the ability to control souls. People have offered up their souls to them, others have some other abilities. Should be far superior to monsters soul manip and underlings like Baramos, who can trap souls in loops of their deaths, eat souls, etc)

Zoma

Death Manipulation (Killed all of the guards in the throne room among first arrival (29:57)

Likely Soul Manipulation (All dark lords and demons are implied to have the ability to control souls. People have offered up their souls to them, others have some other abilities. Should be far superior to monsters soul manip and underlings like Baramos, who can trap souls in loops of their deaths, eat souls, etc)

Telepathy (Communicated to the hero in the Overworld from Torland)

Likely Spatial Manipulation (Presumably responsible for the Pit of Giaga)

Darkness Manipulation and Statistics Amplification (Can create a Shroud of Darkness that makes him much more powerful and grants him abilities)


Immortality (Types 1 and 3; Stated to be a force of darkness that has been fighting Rubiss since the beginning of time)

Regeneration (Mid-Low; Passively heals in his fight)

 

[Winter]

Is it even possible to bump discussion threads? If so, bump

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not sure about some of the damage boost stuff, I feel like just hitting harder isn't necessarily enough for the ability, otherwise you'd get it just by kicking. Stuff like Victimizer is def fine tho, rest seems ok

 

[Winter]

I'm not sure about some of the damage boost stuff, I feel like just hitting harder isn't necessarily enough for the ability, otherwise you'd get it just by kicking. Stuff like Victimizer is def fine tho, rest seems ok

It’s moreso just the ability itself that deals more damage than standard attacks. So if you used the “bite” ability, it deals more damage than your standard attack. I’m not sure of it myself, but it’s what I could think of at the time.

What do you think about the Baramos tiering?

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't really know much about the guy

 

[Winter]

I was planning on adding to the ability list, but got stumped. What do we treat critical hits as? There’s a move that guarantees critical hits, but I’m not sure what power it would have.

 

[Armorchompy]

could be minor probability manip, pressure points, or just being good at dealing damage effectively

 

[Winter]

could be minor probability manip, pressure points, or just being good at dealing damage effectively

I could see probability. Not sure what to classify critical hits themselves. Pressure points wouldn’t make much sense since they can happen to all enemies, inorganic and souls.

 

[Winter]

I added a few critical hit skills and dance skills to the ability list

 

[Winter]

Just to spark up some non-debate related conversation, what’s your guy’s favorite Dragon Quest game?

For me, DQ5 and DQ8 are easily my favorites. Great stories, great characters, monster recruitment mechanic, fun gameplay overall.

DQ11 comes in close for second. Great story, great characters, and it serves as an anniversary game with plenty of call backs to DQ3 and other games.

On the contrary, DQ2 is my least favorite. While I don’t believe there to be a terrible DQ game, it doesn’t do as well compared to the others. Great if you want difficulty though

 

[Armorchompy]

Just to spark up some non-debate related conversation, what’s your guy’s favorite Dragon Quest game?

5

 

[Winter]

Added a few more abilities

 

[Winter]

AP is looking good for now (aside from the undecided Mortamor feat)

We still need to figure out plenty of other stats like speed and stuff. End of game Immeasurable seems to come the Bilhaw statement. I’m not sure if Terry’s speed feat still holds weight given how long ago the calc was done, but if that can be recalced that’d be cool

Powers are slowly going along, with me adding to the ability list here and there. I still need to add to the exclusive power list, but once both are done, we can refer to them for when we add said things. Exclusives are gonna be interesting, especially with hax characters like Mortamor, Nokturnus, and others use. I still think Estark statement holds weight considering context. It by itself probably won’t like Armor said, but including how he casually travels universes with actual context and how the jap statement words it, I could see BDE type 1 with it (and maybe Immeasurable as a result, but I’m not sure if BDE could provide that)

 

[Winter]

Bump

 

[Winter]

Bump

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Kazing!

 

[Abysswalker2126]

I’ve about finished Morag’s profile I just need to figure out early game DQ9 Speed

At first I wanted to use the Hero being able to dodge a Lunatick’s Paralaser as the best speed feat early game but I’m not sure if It could be treated as a conventional laser since it looks more jagged and electrical

other feats are
Dodging Arrows from Bodkin Fletchers
Dodging Explosions from lost souls SDing
Dodging Master of N’un’s lightning

I’m trying to think of what other speed feats there are in the early game, anyone got anything?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Say, if someone in the future wants to retake the Dai no Daibouken profiles I took notes of the manga up to chapter 128 (the aftermath of the battle against Baran). It's pretty hard to not make it sound like shameless self promoting, >_>; but thought it'd be better than let them just there.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Ok even more bad news for DQ9 is that try as I might it seems that the hero is unable to dodge certain attacks, I kept trying to get them to dodge master of Nu’un s lightning but it seems like it’s unable to miss/be dodged/be blocked so we can’t use that either same goes for Morag’s Witch’s Gaze and lost souls and other enemies SDing

the one thing that might be dodgeable/ blockable is magic as I remember vaguely being able to block and dodge magic but despite testing it with max evasion and block to see if it’s possible neither would proc

however We got old reliable point blank Arrow dodging and simultaneous counter attacking? That needs calced

do know that due to Coup de grace being rng I simulated how a dodge and counterattack would look like by using Back Atcha which uses the block/guard animation instead of the dodge animation so I fillmed another video of what the dodge animation looks like so for reference ignore the block animation and use the dodge animation

 

[Abysswalker2126]

5

9

also I have a new feat that needs calculated (see above) last one and I can finally submit the completed Morag profile for review to be added to the DQ verse page