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Dragon Quest Revival Discussion Thread

I'm not sure, if you can summarize things I can maybe ask people on Discord to check this, or I guess I could just tag Antvasima and see if he can get a few staff members on things
 
Armorchompy said:
I'm not sure, if you can summarize things I can maybe ask people on Discord to check this, or I guess I could just tag Antvasima and see if he can get a few staff members on things
Click to expand...
Yea sure, I can just summarize the point. Also yea, tag a few people too, some staff input would be neat.

Epic Summary:

So the scan says something along the lines of “Mortamor absorbing all other worlds within his own.” The absorbing part isn’t necessarily what’s 2-B since you can’t quantify how many he absorbs at once, but what is 2-B with the feat is the capability to stabilize those worlds. At the absolute minimum, the stabilization is 2-C (since the Dream World and Real World were directly under threat to be absorbed into his world). Since his plan is to absorb all worlds, it’s very likely he’d be able to stabilize those too. Keep in mind, this is HIS plan, so Mortamor knowing his capabilities should very well be capable of stabilizing a realm that big after absorbing all of the other worlds. I see a likely, if not a full out 2-B rating. The cosmology is countless 2-B in size, so he would scale to this.
 
I’m going to create a spell guide here for reference so when we need to make the profiles, we can give them the related ability. I’ll slowly add to this (scans included if necessary) as time goes on. I also might make ability lists for certain characters (since 1, I don’t know how to make sandboxes, and 2, it’s too much work for the whole series). Plenty of them need reworks and it’s worth getting them all down.


Spell List:

Offensive Spells:

Frizz - Fire Manipulation

Sizz - Fire Manipulation (The frizz-sizz distinction should be mentioned on the profiles. Frizz and Sizz are considered two different damage types, despite both being fire. It’s possible to be immune to one while weak to the other and vice versa. So make sure this is noted either on a profile and/or the verse page)

Crack - Ice Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement (Canon spin-offs like DQ Heroes have ice spells temporarily freeze use upon getting hit by them)

Woosh - Air Manipulation

Bang - Energy Projection and Explosion Manipulation (More recent installments depict the Bang line of spells to be energy explosions)

Zap - Electricity Manipulation and Weather Manipulation (Self explanatory. Zap spells are occasionally shown through gameplay (DQ Heroes) and artwork to be produced from a cloud)

Zam - Darkness Manipulation and possibly Electricity Manipulation (Darkness element. Some games visuals show Zam having some dark electricity emit upon contact)

Rubblerouser - Earth Manipulation (Creates a sigil under the enemy that generates rock spikes to damage enemies)

Coral Grief - Organic Manipulation/ Water Manipulation (Creates a water blast and rains coral?? The wiki descriptions don’t help describe this. Heroes 2 shows this as a water blast, DQ7 shows this as raining coral through presumably a water tornado. I genuinely don’t know for this either. I’d personally take the more recent variant)

Splish - Water Manipulation (This is a more recent line of spells, being introduced in Joker 3 and Treasures. This probably won’t be on too many profiles)

Malestrom - Water Manipulation (Creates a water vortex)


Donk - Gravity Manipulation (Creates a gravity well that crushes enemies

Magic Burst - Energy Projection (Unleashes an omnidirectional energy blast that consumes all of the user’s mana. One of the strongest skills in the game. It is unaffected by barriers that reduce damage or reflect it)

Recovery Spells

Heal - Healing (Self-explanatory)

Reheal - Healing (Grants overtime healing)

Zing - Resurrection (Small chance with earlier spells. Guaranteed with Kazing)


Kerplunk - Self Destruction, Healing, and Resurrection (Kills themself to revive and fully heal all allies)

Squelch - Purification (Type 3; Removes poison)

Tingle - Purification (Type 3; Removes paralysis)

Defuddle - Purification (Type 3; Removes confusion)

****-a-doodle-doo - Purification (Type 3; Removes sleep)

Dedazzle - Purification (Type 3; Removes bedazzlement)

Sheen - Purification (Types 2 and 3; Removes curses)

Support/Debuff spells

Oomph - Statistics Amplification (Raises physical attack power)

Ping - Statistics Amplification (Raises strength of magic)

Spell Checker - Power Bestowal (Raises magic resistance of a party member, making it less effective. Was difficult to decide. Chose Power Bestowal since it grants resistance to magic to someone)

Buff - Statistics Amplification (Raises physical defense)

Accelerate - Statistics Amplification (Raises speed)

Insulatle - Light Manipulation and Damage Reduction (Creates a veil of sorts around the user/party that reduces damage by breath attacks. Varies between games but is consistently by a quarter/half)

Magic Barrier - Power Bestowal (Raises magic resistance of all party members. See spell checker for explanation on Power Bestowal)

Blunt - Statistics Reduction (Either greatly or slightly decreases (depending on the spell), physical strength of the enemy)

Dim - Statistics Reduction (Lowers the opponents magical potency)

Sap - Statistics Reduction (Either greatly or slightly decreases (depending on the spell) physical durability of target)

Anathematise - Resistance Negation (Lowers one’s resistance to magic)

Divine Intervention - Resistance Negation (Lowers multiple enemies’s resi

Decelerate - Statistics Reduction (Either greatly or slightly decreases (depending on the spell) speed of target)

Bound - Forcefield Creation and Attack Reflection (Creates a single use forcefield that reflects all spells. Likely omnidirectional like it’s variant)

Bounce - Forcefield Creation and Attack Reflection (Creates an omnidirectional forcefield around the user that reflects all magical attacks directed towards them)

Snub - Power Nullification (Nullifies all spells directed at the one protected by the spell)

Absorb Magic - Absorption (Absorbs mana of oncoming spells upon hitting the user)

Drain Magic - Absorption (Absorbs mana of an opponent)

Share Magic - Unknown (I don’t know what power this is. Transfers mana to an ally

Giga Drain Magic - Absorption (Absorbs mana of all opponents nearby)

The Great Leveller - Power Nullification (Exclusive to the DQ7 Hero. Removes durability ailments and buffs, Kaclang, and Transformations from one enemy. The Greater Leveller removes physical strength buffs, temporary spell barriers, and seals all spells temporarily, along with the previous effects. As a downside, it affects )

Status Effect:

Snooze - Sleep Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement

Fuddle - Mind Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement (Confusion status makes you confused, not knowing who is your friend or enemy, and will mindlessly attack either. Occasionally won’t do anything at all out of pure confusion and even may attack themselves)

Dazzle - Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation (Makes the one affected see illusory clones of opponents surrounding them. It’s used to lower accuracy. Spells aren’t affected by this for whatever reason)

Fizzle - Power Nullification and Sound Manipulation (Nullifies opponents ability to cast magic. Also prevent the affected from saying the name of said spell)

Ban Dance - Power Nullification (Prevents opponent from using dance abilities

Transformation:

Puff! - Transformation (Transforms the user into a dragon)

Kaclang - Transmutation and Power Bestowal (Transforms the party into metal, granting them invulnerability and immunity to all magic and abilities in the game, but makes them incapable of movement)

Morph - Transformation and Power Mimicry (Allows the user to transform into the target, granting him their strength and durability

Field Magic:

Most of these, if not any of them aren’t combat applicable. I could see Evac and Zoom being potential BFR counters.

Click - ??? (Can unlock doors)

Evac - Teleportation (Can teleport the user’s party outside of a dungeon. This works at Interdimensional range too, used to escape Luminary Trials and Drustan’s Labyrinth)

Zoom - Activated Flight (Can fly instantly to any location known by the caster. Also works at Interdimensional ranges)

Fade - Invisibility

Glow - Light Manipulation (Creates a light brighter than torches used to make it easier to see in the dark)

Holy Protection - Holy Manipulation (Repels weaker monsters with a holy aura)

Peep - Information Analysis (Can check chests and see if it contains gold, an item, or is dangerous. This doesn’t give further info. This also lets the user appraise equipment and learn info about it)

Safe Passage - Limited Power Nullification (Temporarily nullifies the effects of harmful terrain)

Snoop - Light Manipulation (Causes treasure in dungeons to glimmer, making them easier to find)

Storeyteller - Information Analysis (Informs the user of what floor of the dungeon they are in)

Tick-Tock - Time Manipulation (Can change the time between day and night


Other:

Whack - Death Manipulation (Sends a projectile/projectiles that have a chance to instantly kill enemies)

Poof - BFR (Description describes this as vanishing someone instantly. The location is unknown)

Bazoom - Air Manipulation/Telekinesis and Pseudo BFR (Uses magic (Air in most variants, a telekinetic field in DQ Heroes) to fling the opponent out of battle)
 
Last edited:
Winter said:
I’m going to create a spell guide here for reference so when we need to make the profiles, we can give them the related ability. I’ll slowly add to this (scans included if necessary) as time goes on. I also might make ability lists for certain characters (since 1, I don’t know how to make sandboxes, and 2, it’s too much work for the whole series). Plenty of them need reworks and it’s worth getting them all down.


Spell List:

Elemental Spells:

Frizz - Fire Manipulation

Sizz - Fire/Hellfire Manipulation (Sizz and Frizz are complicated spells, mainly because they are two very different damage types. It’s possible to be immune to Frizz spells but still be damaged by sizz spells, and vice versa. I don’t know how to distinguish them other than the fact stronger sizz spells like Kasizz/Kasizzle are considered to be hellfire. This isn’t stated for sizz and sizzle, which makes this complicated, not to mention the breath skill/spell, hellfire. Lemme know if anyone has anything for this)

Crack - Ice Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement (Canon spin-offs like DQ Heroes have ice spells temporarily freeze use upon getting hit by them)

Woosh - Air Manipulation

Bang - Energy Projection and Explosion Manipulation (More recent installments depict the Bang line of spells to be energy explosions)

Zap - Electricity Manipulation and Weather Manipulation (Self explanatory. Zap spells are occasionally shown through gameplay (DQ Heroes) and artwork to be produced from a cloud)

Zam - Darkness Manipulation and possibly Electricity Manipulation (Darkness element. Some games visuals show Zam having some dark electricity emit upon contact)
Click to expand...
Whack - Death Manipulation

Snooze - status effect manipulation Sleep Manipulation

Fuddle - status effect manipulation mind manipulation

Sap/decelerate - statistics reduction

Fizzle - power nullification (magic)
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
Whack - Death Manipulation

Snooze - status effect manipulation Sleep Manipulation

Fuddle - status effect manipulation mind manipulation

Sap/decelerate - statistics reduction

Fizzle - power nullification (magic)
Click to expand...
Added those plus moral hax for fuddle
 
What's your reasoning for it being mind/morality manipulation? Because if there's actual context then fine but if it's just "they're confused and can hit their allies" that's not those.
 
Winter said:
Added those plus moral hax for fuddle
Click to expand...
Dazzle -Illusion creation
Puff! - Transformation (Dragon)
Coral Grief- Coral Manipulation?
Blunt- Statistics reduction (attack)
Poof- BFR
Rubblerouser- earth manipulation
Bounce- Attack reflection (magic)
Snub- invulnerability (magic)
 
Armorchompy said:
What's your reasoning for it being mind/morality manipulation? Because if there's actual context then fine but if it's just "they're confused and can hit their allies" that's not those.
Click to expand...
It’s pretty simple. Confusion in general would be mind based, it affects your moral and combat thinking. Confusion in DQ is morality based because you don’t know who your ally or foe is, so you mindlessly attack either (you can also do nothing out of pure confusion or attack yourself).
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
Dazzle -Illusion creation
Puff! - Transformation (Dragon)
Coral Grief- Coral Manipulation?
Blunt- Statistics reduction (attack)
Poof- BFR
Rubblerouser- earth manipulation
Bounce- Attack reflection (magic)
Snub- invulnerability (magic)
Click to expand...
Will add later. Dazzle should have Perception Manipulation added (the illusory clones can only be seen by the one affected), and Bounce should have Forcefield Creation (self explanatory).

Snub is power nullification (for whatever spell gets near the user is erased) and Coral Grief is Water Manipulation
 
Winter said:
It’s pretty simple. Confusion in general would be mind based, it affects your moral and combat thinking. Confusion in DQ is morality based because you don’t know who your ally or foe is, so you mindlessly attack either (you can also do nothing out of pure confusion or attack yourself).
Click to expand...
I mean it's just, making someone dazed, you're not rewriting the way they see people, they're just too confused to recognize them.
 
Armorchompy said:
I mean it's just, making someone dazed, you're not rewriting the way they see people, they're just too confused to recognize them.
Click to expand...
And the daze is caused by affecting the mind, it’s not like they get smacked hard enough they forget who people are and attack themselves. That’s not the only way you can use morality manip. It’s a moral confusion

Also btw can you invite any staff for the thread? You said you would on that Mortamor point
 
Winter said:
Will add later. Dazzle should have Perception Manipulation added (the illusory clones can only be seen by the one affected), and Bounce should have Forcefield Creation (self explanatory).

Snub is power nullification (for whatever spell gets near the user is erased) and Coral Grief is Water Manipulation
Click to expand...
Coral Grief is possibly not water manipulation since it does Earth element damage in dq7 and wind element damage in dq10 and it’s described as a nautically themed spell that bombards all enemies with sharpened shards of scleractinia.
 
Winter said:
And the daze is caused by affecting the mind, it’s not like they get smacked hard enough they forget who people are and attack themselves. That’s not the only way you can use morality manip. It’s a moral confusion
Click to expand...
??? I like don't even know how to counter it, no it ain't.
Winter said:
Also btw can you invite any staff for the thread? You said you would on that Mortamor point
Click to expand...
I asked off-site but nobody chimed in.
Abysswalker2126 said:
Did you not see the official Japanese guidebook entry?
Click to expand...
I can't read japanese.
 
Armorchompy said:
??? I like don't even know how to counter it, no it ain't.

I asked off-site but nobody chimed in.
Click to expand...
Your only counters are “it’s a daze” and “no it ain’t.” Affecting someone’s thinking is literally mind manipulation. Whether it’s morality or not, it seemed something maybe worth noting but it’s 100% mind manipulation.

Ok, I suppose we wait 😔
 
Winter said:
Your only counters are “it’s a daze” and “no it ain’t.” Affecting someone’s thinking is literally mind manipulation. Whether it’s morality or not, it seemed something maybe worth noting but it’s 100% mind manipulation.

Ok, I suppose we wait 😔
Click to expand...
It ain't though. You're not manipulating their thoughts, you're just making them too dizzy to actually think properly. It's like saying that hitting someone in the head really hard and knocking them out is Sleep Manipulation. Or that hitting someone in the head even harder and killing them is Death Manipulation.
 
Armorchompy said:
It ain't though. You're not manipulating their thoughts, you're just making them too dizzy to actually think properly. It's like saying that hitting someone in the head really hard and knocking them out is Sleep Manipulation. Or that hitting someone in the head even harder and killing them is Death Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Dizziness and confusion are two different things. I don’t think you hit yourself or others due to being dizzy. When you’re confused (in DQ), you don’t know what to do in a fight and don’t know who’s your enemy or ally is.

It is not like saying that. This isn’t like hitting someone in the head, your using a magic spell to cause confusion. The statuses are supernatural.
 
Ok but like, making someone dizzy doesn't mean you're rewriting their mind, it could very well be sense or perception manip, that's why it's safer to list as status effect
 
Armorchompy said:
Ok but like, making someone dizzy doesn't mean you're rewriting their mind, it could very well be sense or perception manip, that's why it's safer to list as status effect
Click to expand...
It’s not making them dizzy, it’s literally just messing with their mind to confuse them. Fuddle by definition literally means to confuse someone, not daze them. It’s mind manip + status.
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
Well it says in Japanese that victims are unable to tell friend from foe allowing one to sit back and let the fight finish itself
Click to expand...
With stuff like that, you usually want a translation rather than just posting the japanese. Either way, gameplay wise, confused people don’t really sit out, they mostly attack either or + themselves from confusion.
 
Winter said:
It’s not making them dizzy, it’s literally just messing with their mind to confuse them. Fuddle by definition literally means to confuse someone, not daze them
Click to expand...
Yeah and you can do that in other ways than mind manip, and I wouldn't really say there's reason to say that this is that. Also I would definitely say it's making them dizzy given the spinning stars over the head imagery.
 
Last edited:
Armorchompy said:
Yeah and you can do that in other ways than mind manip, and I wouldn't really say there's reason to say that this is that. Also I would definitely say it's making them dizzy given the spinning stars over the head imagery.
Click to expand...
What? No, messing with someone’s mind would only be mind manipulation unless it has some side effect that would be added onto it like Morality or Madness. Either that or bio manip via affecting the brain biologically, but that isn’t the case here. There’s literally no reason why it wouldn’t be mind manipulation. The whole daze point is based on spell animation and not what the status effect actually does.
 
Winter said:
Spell List
Click to expand...
Updated the spell list, go lookey. Also a few things, lemme know what I should put for abilities I wasn’t sure of like the frizz/sizz distinction, coral grief, bazoom, etc. Those that I’m unsure of have slashes for the ability listed.

Another thing, there aren’t plenty of members on this thread and some of the people previously shown have not made their presence. We should probably get a few dragon quest supporters here (those on the thread previously and on the verse page) and some mods for unbiased opinions on stuff.
 
Also, this is something I would like to be calced. This pretty much affects all of the mid-tiers of DQ8.



9:13

For context, Marchello throws the scepter into the Goddess statue, causing it to shatter and fall apart. Then an explosion happens that obliterates the shrine, statue, and mountain behind it. The party was in the shrine and remained pretty much unscathed after the explosion and the castle flies off.
 
Winter said:
Stuff in the actual game would hold priority over the guide book. They don’t sit out via confusion in the game, so the guidebook is wrong on that statement.
Click to expand...
This is the official guidebook though and how Is it wrong? It literally described what you said about making the enemy unable to tell friend from foe
 
Winter said:
Updated the spell list, go lookey. Also a few things, lemme know what I should put for abilities I wasn’t sure of like the frizz/sizz distinction, coral grief, bazoom, etc. Those that I’m unsure of have slashes for the ability listed.

Another thing, there aren’t plenty of members on this thread and some of the people previously shown have not made their presence. We should probably get a few dragon quest supporters here (those on the thread previously and on the verse page) and some mods for unbiased opinions on stuff.
Click to expand...
Here’s a link to all the abilities in the various games organized into categories https://dragon-quest.org/wiki/Ability_List
 
Winter said:
Also, this is something I would like to be calced. This pretty much affects all of the mid-tiers of DQ8.



9:13

For context, Marchello throws the scepter into the Goddess statue, causing it to shatter and fall apart. Then an explosion happens that obliterates the shrine, statue, and mountain behind it. The party was in the shrine and remained pretty much unscathed after the explosion and the castle flies off.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's a tough calc. I'd need something to figure out how far they are from the explosion
 
Winter said:
What? No, messing with someone’s mind would only be mind manipulation unless it has some side effect that would be added onto it like Morality or Madness. Either that or bio manip via affecting the brain biologically, but that isn’t the case here. There’s literally no reason why it wouldn’t be mind manipulation. The whole daze point is based on spell animation and not what the status effect actually does.
Click to expand...
Look I hate to do this but look at literally any other RPG with a confusion status that we have indexed, none of them list it as Mind Manip. Without going into my own profiles (which for the record got CRTs accepting them, obviously) FF does Madness Manip out of I presume some dumb verse shit (D&D also lists Confusion as Madness Manip but that's due to specific context), Pokemon lists it as Status Effect Inducement, Persona/SMT list it as Status Effect Inducement, Earthbound lists Feeling Strange (which is just the series' term for Confusion) as Status Effect Inducement, Kingdom Hearts lists it as Status Effect Inducement, Fire Emblem lists it as Status Effect Inducement, the only RPG I've found using Mind Manip for Confusion are Octopath Traveler and Xenoblade and the latter is specifically for afflicting machines with it which... I don't know why that'd even be mind manipulation, it sounds like tech manip, but whatever.

It's just not how we (usually, there's some confusion) treat it.
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
This is the official guidebook though and how Is it wrong? It literally described what you said about making the enemy unable to tell friend from foe
Click to expand...
You misunderstood me. I said the sitting out part of the statement is wrong, not the unable to tell friend from foe. They don’t sit out of battle when confused, which is why I said the guidebook was wrong on that part. To answer that first part, the guidebook would be a secondary source while the main game is the primary source.
 
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